I dislike this Pistorius guy more by the minute

[malaise]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/26/oscar-pistorius-memorial-service-reeva-steenkamp
<snip>
Oscar Pistorius, the Paralympic star accused of murder, held a personal memorial service on Tuesday night to honour Reeva Steenkamp, the girlfriend he shot dead at his home in what he claims was an accident.

Plans for the service in the capital Pretoria came to light after a "leak" to the media, according to the public-relations agency representing Pistorius.

Vuma Reputation Management said: "Oscar specifically requested the memorial service as he continues to grieve and remains in deep mourning for the loss of his partner, Reeva. Since it is such a sensitive issue, Oscar has asked for a private service with people who share his loss, including his family members who knew and loved Reeva as one of their own."

The press release added: "The Pistorius family would like to make a personal request to the media to please respect their privacy at their home in Pretoria tonight."
-----------------

[ellisonz]

1. I don't believe his story for one minute.

[barbtries]

7. that makes two of us.

she must have been trying to get away from him. poor thing.

[MFM008]

39. 3

this stinks bad.

[DesertFlower]

51. neither do i.

[cali]

2. sickening.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

3. Doesn't everyone fill the door full of led

when they suspect unwanted intruders are outside?

[malaise]

4. And before they check that their partner is still in bed

[snagglepuss]

48. How do you not know your partner is in bed. Just how big is his bed?

I have absolutely never not known whether someone is in bed with me.

[malaise]

50. Same here

It makes no sense

[AtheistCrusader]

73. Pistorius's story is predicated on the idea it was too dark to see anyone laying next to him,

but light enough to see, and hit the fucking bathroom door with every single shot.

We'll see what the trial brings, but I sure as hell don't believe him.

[malaise]

74. Great spot

Story makes no sense

[madokie]

5. I dislike anyone who thinks guns first

reminds me of when the only tool one has is a hammer all problems look like nails. This guy fits that exactly

[malaise]

12. It's awful

This is as bad as the Trayvon Martin slaughter

[madokie]

13. That it is

[SunSeeker]

6. That is just plain creepy.

Sounds like a self-absorbed psychopath.

[FreeJoe]

8. Any concern for possible innocence?

At this point, I'm 95% certain that he intentionally killed her. I still have a reasonable doubt. If his story is true, that he shot her in a panic thinking she was an intruder, he actions seem reasonable.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

9. i believe that is why he is doing these things

to SEEM as if he is acting reasonably in the unintentional death of a loved one. could he be innocent? sure. but given the stories that we have seen thus far i would wager no. and it really doesn't matter what most of us think here... most of us are not eligible to decide his fate so it's all just talk.

sP

[malaise]

11. If he's innocent

I'm a virgin

[Dorian Gray]

67. Immaculate!

If I were a gambling woman (I am!), I wouldn't put a cent on his innocence. No matter the payout!

[malaise]

68. ROFL

I'm betting that most women and many men won't bet on his innocence

[malaise]

10. If I hear a noise in our home the first thing I'll do is call hubby to see where he is

In the case of this piss ass, he stated that he thought she was in his fugging bed.
He may get off because he is a white athletic hero in RSA but that won't change the fact that he killed that woman.
Accident my ass.

[Sheldon Cooper]

14. His actions really defy logic and common sense.

If I was awakened at night by a noise coming from the bathroom, the FIRST thing I would check is whether or not my SO was in bed next to me. Anything less than that is just preposterous - who hasn't at some point got up in the middle of the night to relieve themselves? Add to that the fact that his girlfriend was allegedly beaten with a cricket bat and the story falls apart. And on top of that, who in their right mind sleeps with a loaded gun under their pillow? That type of skewed thinking leads me to believe that he was paranoid and abusive and I can't give any real credence to his story.

[malaise]

15. Same here

I don't buy one word of his story - one more entitled privileged punk.

[get the red out]

27. Exactly!

My husband does the same. We hear a noise, the other person isn't in bed, we ask "Is that you????" Problem generally solved!

[redqueen]

37. He accidentally shoots the woman he loves, and his first call is to a lawyer.

Yeah, that makes sense.

[snagglepuss]

49. I don't buy his story either however from what I've heard people in SA

are obsessed with home invaisons as they are extremely common so sleeping with guns nearby is not irregular.

[lunatica]

16. She was either

(in his story) sleeping so hard in the bed that she missed the entire screaming, shooting thing and he was totally unaware that she wasn't sleeping through it, or she never heard him screaming as he dragged himself into the bathroom to shoot her. It never once occurred to her to call out anything. Not, "What's the matter?", "What's happening?", or "It's me sitting on the toilet."

There are holes in his story that you could drive a truck through.

It looks like he shot her in the most cowardly way possible. While she was in a tiny room with no escape, cornered.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

21. "There are holes in his story that you could drive a truck through."

perfect... a BIIIIG truck.

sP

[malaise]

26. Isn't that the truth

[lapislzi]

24. As usual, you nail it.

I think there are interests in South Africa who do not want to see him convicted--hence, the gross blunders by the investigators and prosecution at the bail hearing.

Panic? I don't buy it for a second. In the course of his training, he would have learned how to keep a cool head under pressure.

[malaise]

25. Absolutely - there are some great commentaries and articles from SOuth African sources

and I have more than a few friends there. Middle class, white, and an athletic hero - he's virtually untouchable in those parts.

[lapislzi]

32. I lived there for 10 years

I know all about the worship of (white) sports figures.

One interesting thing about South Africa, at least during apartheid (maybe less so now), is that it is quite self-contained and solipsistic. It thinks that the whole world thinks like it does. It believes its sports heroes/athletes to be far and away the best in the world. You could not say a word against Zola Budd in the 80s and 90s.

This is reflected in the Academy-award winning documentary "Searching for Sugarman." South Africans took to the music of Sixto Rodriguez in a big, big way during the 70s. He was a monster phenomenon, partly fueled by the partial banning of his music ("drugs! Sis! Ag, nee man!&quot . (White) South Africans thought themselves terribly cosmopolitan and subversive...and were horribly dismayed to learn that Rodriguez was a relative nobody elsewhere.

[malaise]

33. I did read your excellent thread

The sanctions made them even more inward looking than normal. Being kicked out international cricket and the Olympics was painful to them.

[lapislzi]

40. OMG, you have no idea!

They took it very personally. It led to some odd phenoms: Rod Stewart and Laura Brannigan were worshipped because they defied sanctions and played concerts in Sun City (located in the nominal "homeland" of Bophuthatswana; notable as the place where white people went to gamble and watch porn). Paul Simon, not so much, despite turning Ladysmith Black Mamabazo into a world famous act.

I am a huge cricket fan, BTW. Go figure! It delights me to try to explain cricket to Americans.

[malaise]

45. Jimmy Cliff violated the sanctions as well and so did those rand seeking

Last edited Wed Feb 27, 2013, 09:35 PM - Edit history (1)

cricketers.
Cricket is a fabulous game - the chess of sports

[patricia92243]

20. Has he indicated that he in any way warned the "intruder" that he had a gun and would shoot if

necessary. Maybe the intruder would have answered back - then he would have known it was his girl friend. Or him warning the intruder in a loud voice - in order to be heard through a door - would have awoke the girlfriend sleeping right beside him.

I have not kept up with the story very closely.

[R B Garr]

42. About the reasonable doubt, there are a couple actions she took that make me wonder

I'm basing this on a diagram of the bedroom that I saw, although that may not be an accurate depiction, that showed she by-passed the bedroom exit door to go further into the bedroom and turn the corner into the bathroom. If she was truly trying to escape him, she could have ran out of the bedroom door and out of the house since he apparently would have had to put his legs on to chase after her.

Another thing is whether or not there were toxicology reports done. I guess I'm just kind of assuming that two well-to-do young people might be into recreational drugs. We already know that he was on illegal steroids (if I have that right from what I've read...). Maybe she was somewhat incapacitated from drugs or alcohol (?). Maybe. It was Valentines, and she had tweeted how excited she was about it, so I'm thinking they probably partied. And maybe if he called out, she didn't answer him because of that. I don't know. But those were a couple questions I had about her actions/decisions she made as to whether she was trying to escape him.

Although with the cricket bat and the arguing the neighbors heard, his story really isn't adding up, especially given the diagram of the bedroom, the so-called intruder would have been trapped in the bathroom which was in a corner of the bedroom area, so why didn't he just call the police -- instead of shooting through the door.

[MH1]

60. Yes, some concern.

I think it's at least a little bit possible that he is the flaming idiot one would have to be to have done what he claims.

I also think it's highly possible he's lying, and that he killed her in a rage.

I do not see any rationale or evidence that he "premeditated" killing her in the way I - and I think most people - would use that term in an objective situation (i.e. if one isn't so pissed at this guy that one tries to nail him to the max whether it makes sense or not). If he planned to kill her, then he wouldn't have done it in such a stupid way, would he? But the law has its own definition of "premeditation".

But be that all as it may, for the rule of law to prevail - and the rule of law matters more than any single case, even this one - he can't be convicted of murder unless it can be proven. And as of now I doubt that it can be proven. Which leaves us in a quandary, I guess. But there's always 'negligent homicide' or some variation thereof, and with the gun being illegal (it was, right?) and possibly other charges that flow out of this, he should spend a few years in jail anyway.

Back to your question, it concerns me somewhat that people are so quick to convict the guy when it's at least possible he really was just stupid and disoriented and did a horrible thing. But not all that much. It's only discussion. As long as the lawyers and judges do their job, I'm cool with it all.

[MNBrewer]

17. What difference does it make what you think of him?

I'm completely indifferent to him. I'm content to let the South African justice system work and see what comes out.

[malaise]

18. I'm so glad you're content

Mandela might have another perspective

[MNBrewer]

19. True, he might. What difference is THAT supposed to make?

Even if he did have another perspective, I bet he'd be content to allow the South African justice system to do its work too.

[Javaman]

22. taking the sociopath defense.

make a big show in "private" then leak it to the media to make sure it remains "private". Which now, it is far from.

Trying hard to portray sorrow.

Sociopaths are funny that way.

[malaise]

28. Who else could have leaked it

It's hilarious

[Javaman]

35. Exactly. nt

[healthnut7]

23. Looks like it runs in the family

His brother is up on murder charges as well. What a family!!!

This was on our news on the weekend.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/02/24/oscar-pistorius-brother-homicide-charge.html

[malaise]

30. I saw that in the Mail and Guardian - here's a good read

http://mg.co.za/article/2013-02-26-xingwana-shows-a-glimmer-of-a-clue-on-pistorius-steenkamp-and-guns

[BlueStreak]

29. OJ must be doing a face palm right about now

If only I had thought about having a service to honor Nicole and Ronald. Their deaths were so tragic So sudden. So bloody. Wait, did I say that out loud?

[malaise]

31. Yah think?

LOL

[Beacool]

34. He acts as if someone else killed her.

In "deep mourning"? Reeva would be alive if he hadn't first beat her and then shot her several times through the bathroom door.

[malaise]

38. Unfreakingbelievable

isn't it.

[polly7]

36. I think it's disgusting that her family has to put up with this.

How much must it hurt to know the killer, imho, is asking for sensitivity. And, I'm sure the only thing he's grieving over is what he may face, hopefully for the rest of his life.

[lapislzi]

41. I am sure that he thinks his status will protect him

It still may.

[JI7]

46. like his fans who cheered when he got Bail

[smirkymonkey]

56. Yes, I think this is the most repulsive thing.

The poor family has to put up with this travesty. They must be in must be in so much pain already. This is just adding insult to injury. How painful this must be for them.

[Sheldon Cooper]

43. A Plea Bargain for Pistorius?

Here is an interesting article by Jeffrey Toobin on the likelihood of a plea bargain. There is also a link within this link that discusses the culture of domestic violence in S. Africa. I didn't excerpt it here because it could be a trigger, but it's available at the link for anyone interested.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2013/02/a-plea-bargain-for-oscar-pistorius.html

Like the United States, South Africa has a vigorous culture of plea bargaining. The reasons underlying the policy are more or less the same in both countries: plea bargains save time for the judicial system and offer both sides a greater measure of certainty than do trials. Even high-profile cases in South Africa are sometimes resolved by plea bargain. In 2005, Mark Thatcher, the son of the former British Prime Minister, accepted a fine of about five hundred thousand dollars and a four-year suspended sentence in connection with his role in a bizarre plot involving a coup d’etat in Equatorial Guinea.

The Pistorius case will probably end the same way. For him, of course, the stakes are enormous. In South Africa, premeditated murder carries a life sentence, which in practice turns out usually to be twenty-five years. The alternative charge in the case is called “culpable homicide,” which is based on the idea of negligence rather than intentional killing. Culpable homicide does not carry a minimum sentence, and is thus clearly amenable as a focus for plea negotiations.

But why would the government want to make a deal? Well, because Pistorius has a defensible case. Home invasions are epidemic in South Africa. A fact finder might credit Pistorius’s intense fear (and thus his overreaction) to the threat of an intruder in his bathroom. It is true, too, that domestic violence rarely results in convictions in South Africa. (Charlayne Hunter-Gault has essential background on that aspect of the case.) The prosecution may also have a hard time proving motive. Pistorius and Steenkamp were a relatively new couple. There were no reports of public tension, much less murderous violence, between them. It is true that domestic violence happens in many relationships, old and new, but the prosecution would certainly want evidence of something that preceded Pistorius’s actions. A plea bargain would obviate the need for the government to fill this hole in its case. The bail ruling also increases Pistorius’s leverage for a good plea deal. Since he is not in prison, he will be in no hurry to go to trial; his lawyers can spend time chipping away at the government’s case, hiring experts, demanding more information, and generally working to render the events of that night a little more muddy.

Then there is the question of juries in South Africa: there are none. All verdicts and sentences are rendered by judges alone. This could cut both ways. At the time of the bail hearing, it was revealed that Hilton Botha, the lead detective in the case, was himself facing attempted murder charges. As a result, he was removed from the case. Jurors might well be so appalled by a police officer like Botha that they would be tempted to write off the case on that ground alone, as the jurors in the O. J. Simpson case did; a judge might take the information more in stride and look carefully to see if it had any actual relevance to the facts of the case. In this way, a judge trial helps the prosecution. But a judge could help the defense, too. The prosecution could attempt to make the case a referendum on domestic violence, and thus try to intimidate a jury into making a popular decision. An independent judge is more likely to focus on the facts and the relevant law and remain unswayed by such an appeal than a jury made up of legal novices would be.

[lapislzi]

44. Great link, thanks. n/t

[Whisp]

47. I feel the exact opposite !

but I have not delved into the story in detail.

My intuition, which has been known to be way wrong, sees him as a really distraught guy who can't believe this happened. I don't think it was murder, I think it was some really bad circumstances and stuff, but not intentional. Bad judgement under duress of fear of what I think it was.

I feel really really sorry for him and her family and all who care about them. It must be hell on earth to be where he is.

but I don't know!

[BainsBane]

57. I'm probably the perfect defense juror

because I don't feel I know enough to determine whether he is guilty of premeditated murder or just culpable homicide. Even his lawyer admitted the latter. His story is strange, to be sure. But the prosecution didn't have evidence of intent or a prior struggle at the bail hearings.

The man is definitely distraught. Even if he killed her in a fit of rage, he's distraught about it. I don't think it's possible to fake the kind of despair he showed in court.

[Warpy]

52. I'd like to see a tox screen done on his hair

The only guy I knew who'd fire shots through the door was a hard core junkie. If you wanted to see him, you stood next to the door in the hall and reached around to knock very gingerly on the door in case he was having one of his paranoid days.

So yeah, there's a reason to believe his story: he was utterly wrecked on multiple illegal substances and paranoid.

[Cha]

53. I was in the Library yesterday and this story

was in People mag. I kept thinking about it afterwards.. the article said there was evidence of her head being bashed. 'Course you never know what's true or not in what you read but it all sounded so suspicious of him.

RIP Reeva Steenkamp

[malaise]

54. With a cricket bat

Mail and Guardian in RSA and the UK Guardian have the best articles and commentaries on the murder

[Cha]

55. You saw that too.. There was also

a list of times he had acted out in a jealous rage and it mentioned she had tweeted some guy that night and they were speculating on whether that had anything to do with it. Something sure as hell played a part in her death.

I just saw where it was the bathroom door that he was shooting at!

[malaise]

62. Word is that 'that guy' was at her funeral

Poor lady was probably getting read to leave the scumbag

[BainsBane]

58. that wasn't introduced in court

They had no evidence that blood was on the bat. If forensics finds that, it's case closed. But if the defense knew there was blood on the bat, Pistorius's statement to the court makes no sense. He does have expensive lawyers.

[malaise]

63. I know but I'm making a safe bet

that it won't be red paint on that bat

[BainsBane]

64. what makes you think there is anything red on the bat?

The newspapers have reported a lot of false information, and it was clear from the bail hearing that the cop (under charges for 7 counts of attempted murder himself) recounted stuff based on what he read in the papers as opposed to actual evidence.
Those newspaper accounts are nothing more than rumor until the coroner's report and forensic evidence is released.

[malaise]

65. True lots of distortion, confusion and obfuscation

all around but the bathroom door was also bashed in with the bat and I don't see how that was made up.

[BainsBane]

69. especially since Pistorius's

admitted he bashed in the door. The case is going to resolve around which version of events the physical evidence supports. Either way it breaks down, Pistoriius is going to jail.

[malaise]

70. Don't bet on it

You have no idea what it means to be a middle class white athletic hero in South Africa.

[BainsBane]

71. true, I don't

but I thought the purpose of bench trials as opposed to juries was to overcome some of this prejudice. If he were in California, he'd get off for sure. I guess we'll see. I hope you're wrong. I mean, he did admit to a crime (culpable homicide) in open court.

[RedCappedBandit]

59. His story is total crap.

You hear noises in your bathroom, you ask who is in there.

At that point, your girlfriend who is in the bathroom responds "It's me!", following which any normal person proceeds to not start shooting through the door.

[malaise]

72. Nothing else makes sense

[Monk06]

61. Vuma Reputation Management, says it all, doesn't it?

[malaise]

66. Indeed