So Mitt Romney believes Adam is God and every planet has it own God?. Wow

[pwb]

Adam had many wives, and Jesus was an angel...... Will he end his speeches with Adam bless America?.
Here is a good read for you about what Mitt Romney believes in religiously. http://www.letusreason.org/LDS33.htm
How can Christians and Jews vote for this man?. Why isn't the religious right all over this guy?.

Please give the article a read before you comment.

[bowens43]

1. Certainly more interesting

then the standard christian fairy tale.

[SammyWinstonJack]

49. HA!

[RDANGELO]

2. Honestly

I am not personally concerned with his religious beleifs. It's his economic policies that scare me.

[waddirum]

52. I am

It's some crazy shit that Mitt believes. He is not some everyday joe, who just attends services for show, like most politicians.

Mitt is a damn BISHOP in that church, and is basically at the innermost sanctum of a very rich and powerful CULT.

[Nye Bevan]

3. That's just crazy stuff. Obama's beliefs make much more sense.

One god for the whole universe (not one per planet).

Jesus was not an *angel*. He was the *son* of God. Who turned water into wine and walked on water. And was conceived immaculately.

This is so much more believable than Romney's version.

[DonCoquixote]

18. It's about as believable as

The idea that the Jews are the "chosen people" of God and therefore have a right to kick the native inhabitants out of Palestine.

[Arugula Latte]

72. Monotheism has its own giant holes in its story, too.

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”
~Epicurus

[Nye Bevan]

77. Can he make a stone so heavy that he can't lift it? (nt)

[Arugula Latte]

108. That makes no sense. nt

[Orangepeel]

4. Is the belief that Adam is God less realistic than the belief that God made Adam out of mud?

Is the belief that Jesus was an angel less likely than that he was the result of the holy ghost impregnating a virgin?



I don't care if people subscribe to a religion that includes silly myths (it would be hard to find one that didn't), as long as they don't try to legislate based on their religion. The trouble is, of course, many politicians do.

Of all the reasons that I think Romney would be a lousy president, that he may or may not believe that each man gets his own planet after he dies (as opposed to a cloud city with pearly gates?) is the least of them.

[Motown_Johnny]

5. all religions seem crazy to nonbelievers

Mormonism is out there but so is everything else.

[eShirl]

6. "Why isn't the religious right all over this guy?."

Because Mormons are part of the Religious Right?

[MineralMan]

7. Romney has religious beliefs. I'm much more interested

in his political beliefs. All religions are based on some sort of supernatural gobbledegook, as far as I am concerned, so one is about the same as the other.

[sarcasmo]

8. Nuts!

[tularetom]

9. It sounds like something cooked up by a couple of college kids

After smoking a big fat blunt.

[Skittles]

10. crazy but.......

no more crazier than believing in virgin birth and rising from the dead

[MadHound]

11. So you are uncomfortable with Romney's magic sky being's stupid shit,

As opposed to Christian and Jewish magic sky beings' stupid shit.

Sorry, but stupid shit is stupid shit, no matter the origin.

[SaintPete]

23. And religious bigotry is stupid shit

so thanks for adding more stupid shit to this thread

[Goblinmonger]

24. So thinking something is stupid is bigotry, now?

Do you give the same level of respect to RW Christians? To Scientologists? Don't think any of that is "stupid shit"?

[SaintPete]

29. nope

but thinking a thing, and posting a thing, are two different things.

[Goblinmonger]

38. So you are only bigoted if you say it out loud?

I don't get it. If thinking something is stupid isn't bigotry, then saying that it is stupid out loud changes nothing about the bigotry. If I think "All blacks are lazy" that's bigotry regardless if I say it out loud.

[SaintPete]

45. Let me clarify

Bigotry is bigotry, inside of a box or outside.

but obviously we can't identify it if it isn't displayed.

If you privately wish to vote for Republicans, no one here will know, and you won't have violated any terms of service.

But if you post your intentions to vote Republican, or tell people that voting for Democrats is stupid, you're in violation.

A bigot is a bigot, and that bigotry is their own private demon to overcome (no, that wasn't a religious reference). Unless they post their bigotry in a forum. Then its open for others to comment on, and challenge, don'tchathink?

[sibelian]

90. ..... No.

Bigotry is prejudice against people because of what they *are*, okay? Criticising people for their ideas is not bigotry because that is related to somebody *doing* something, not somebody *being* something.

At least, that's what it use to mean when I was growing up.

But you know what? I am arguing with *you* now, and I'm willing to bet that you can decide what bigotry means for yourself, can't you? Any word can mean whateeeeeeever you like so long as the way you use the word is useful to *you*. Am I right?

[SaintPete]

94. Bigotry

Websters Online -

big·ot·ry
noun \ˈbi-gə-trē\
plural big·ot·ries
Definition of BIGOTRY
1: the state of mind of a bigot
2: acts or beliefs characteristic of a bigot

big·ot
noun \ˈbi-gət\
Definition of BIGOT
: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigotry

So, bigotry includes-but is not limited to-prejudice against a race or ethnicity.

[ZombieHorde]

104. Doesn't being a bigot against bigots make you a hypocrite? nt

[Arugula Latte]

74. I was under the impression that this was a discussion board.

Is there supposed to be some protective bubble around religious beliefs?

I'm concluding that religious people get so defensive when religion is discussed because deep down they know there is no defense when the ridiculousness of beliefs are pointed out.

[SaintPete]

84. is this not a discussion?

on a board?

[MadHound]

25. So pointing out the truth in graphic terms in now "religious bigotry"?

I'm not the one smearing a person, or group of people, due to their religion, the OP is. But hey, I understand your anger, coming from a poster named "SaintPete"

[SaintPete]

30. Saint Petersburg is the city I live in, not a religious reference

so thank you for more stupid religious bigotry shit.

[MadHound]

34. So if you are so against "religious bigotry"

Why aren't you taking on the OP, rather than myself, one is pointing out the OP's fallacies?

[SaintPete]

43. Because the OP raises an interesting question

but does not condemn or condone.

[MadHound]

47. Really? Let me quote

"How can Christians and Jews vote for this man?"

Sorry, but that is the very definition of religious bigotry, asking people of one certain faith how they can vote for somebody because of their different faith and beliefs.

But no, you go after those who point out such matters, saying they are the ones who are bigots. Hmm, what is that saying about a mote in your brother's eye? Yeah, that one.

[SaintPete]

51. you're trying to divert attention away from what you wrote

and I understand why

[MadHound]

53. No, I'm trying to explain to you what I meant with what I wrote,

But apparently your own prejudices keep you from seeing that.

Again, why aren't you going after the OP for religious bigotry? I pointed it out to you, in terms that hopefully even you can understand.

[SaintPete]

59. I know you're trying to make this about me

because you don't really have any defense for what you wrote.

[MadHound]

60. Yeah, it's all about you,

That's why in my replies I keep mentioning the OP, quoting from the OP, talking about the OP, because after all, it is all about you

[SaintPete]

65. I answered your question in post 43

You don't like my answer? Fine.

You want to deflect responsibility for your comments by pointing a finger at me? Too bad, I'm not biting.

[MadHound]

66. Actually I thought your answer was factually wrong,

And decided to argue the point by quoting the OP. That's when you started with this whole "poor pitiful persecuted me" line. You don't want to be challenged on your bullshit, don't post it. Then you can live in your own hermetically sealed world where you are always right and everybody else is wrong. Otherwise, on a discussion board, expect to be challenged when you throw out bullshit opinions.

[SaintPete]

69. Talk about projecting

"Otherwise, on a discussion board, expect to be challenged when you throw out bullshit opinions. "

[Arugula Latte]

75. Sounds like you're okay if someone makes fun of a certain religion and you agree with that person

but you get upset if your own particular ox is gored.

[SaintPete]

85. I don't have an ox

literally or figuratively

what are you talking about?

[Found in Yonkers]

44. You live in Saint Petersburg?

Mods, there's a RUSSKIE here!

[SaintPete]

63. In Soviet Union...

thread moderates YOU!

[Loudly]

12. Evangelicals have worked very diligently to persuade their flock

not to vote for Romney.

I listen to Salem Radio all the time, and they repeatedly denounce Mormonism as a cult at worst and anti-scriptural at best.

The problem for Evangelicals now is that they are left with Newt and Santorum, both Catholics, who are not really their kind of Christians either.

But they're convinced that the President is a Muslim, so it gives them something to rally around.

[Nye Bevan]

13. Obama the Protestant versus Romney the Mormon

What should the evangelicals do?

[Loudly]

16. They'll back the strongest perceived friend of Israel.

And cheer on The Rapture.

[highplainsdem]

14. I'm much more concerned about whether he was influenced by his church's discriminatory attitudes

and policies, and by a widespread belief in the "White Horse prophecy," which Romney would have heard a lot about while growing up, and which could have left him believing he was destined to become president to fulfill that prophecy:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002237275

IF he believes in that prophecy at all, then you can add an element of megalomania to his presidential bid. IF he's been swayed by that prophecy at all, he doesn't just seem to feel entitled to the nomination because he's ultra-rich, or because it's "his turn" after the previous attempts to win the nomination, but because he's been hearing, at least since his college days, that becoming president is his destined role in his own church.

[NYC Liberal]

15. Because the "regular" Christian beliefs make so much sense.

[SaintPete]

17. Your condemnation of Christianity

right next to your Obama 2012 graphic is funny, since Obama has made it clear that his Christian faith guides him.

How do you reconcile the two images with this third?

[Goblinmonger]

21. That whole graphic doesn't have

ANYTHING to do with the "he's a Muslim" cries, now does it? And that whole graphic doesn't have some tension with what seemed to me to be claims of agnosticism (at the least) in his book?

To be President, you have to play the "I love Jesus" act pretty well. Hell, to get elected to pretty much any national office barring a couple outliers.

[Nye Bevan]

26. Obama has been a committed, churchgoing Christian since long before

he even thought about public office.

http://www.wanttoknow.info/008/obama_religious_beliefs_views

He became a "born again" Christian in the 1980s.

[Goblinmonger]

37. It was DREAMS OF MY FATHER

and not Audacity of Hope I was thinking of as I ponder. I think it was Dreams where he talks about joining Wright's church because it would help him and how he was moved by the work everyone was doing.

[Critters2]

101. He was UCC, hardly born again.

I heard him speak about his faith journey at the UCC General Synod in 2007. Never said a thing about being born again.

[Nye Bevan]

102. In his own words....

OBAMA:
Yes. Absolutely. It was during a daytime service. And it was a powerful moment. It was powerful for me because it not only confirmed my faith, it not only gave shape to my faith, but I think, also, allowed me to connect the work I had been pursuing with my faith.

GG:
How long ago?

OBAMA:
16, 17 years ago. 1987 or 88

GG:
So you got yourself born again?

OBAMA:
Yeah, although I retain from my childhood and my experiences growing up a suspicion of dogma. And I'm not somebody who is always comfortable with language that implies I've got a monopoly on the truth, or that my faith is automatically transferable to others.

http://www.wanttoknow.info/008/obama_religious_beliefs_views

[NYC Liberal]

22. Obama believes what he believes, as everyone is free to do.

I'm not sure what it is you want me to reconcile.

[SaintPete]

27. You mock people for believing

that a cosmic Jewish Zombie...yada...yada...

Yet you support voting for a man who is guided morally and politically by the belief that you deride.

How do you reconcile that?

[NYC Liberal]

50. I mocked no person.

I responded to a thread about Mitt Romney's beliefs that implied they were weird or out of the ordinary. My post made the point that Mormon beliefs are really not that much "weirder" than any other religion's when you get down to it.

And yes, I am voting for Obama because I agree with him politically. Perhaps his reasoning for some of his political stances are different than mine, but I am concerned more about where he stands than how he got there.

[Nye Bevan]

28. Just checking- you *will* vote for the guy who believes in the "cosmic zombie"?

Won't you?

[NYC Liberal]

48. Why would I not?

I think he's done a good job as president and I agree with him politically on most issues.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

83. How precious...the birth of a loyalty oath

They're so cute when they're babies.

[Marrah_G]

31. I find this graphic creepy

I would not vote for that person if I had a real choice.

[immoderate]

86. Uh-huh. It disturbs me too.

But it's PR material for a politician, and a remarkably successful one.

I don't want to vote for him again, but see no better option.

--imm

[Shadowflash]

35. Heh! + 1000!

[closeupready]

68. LOLOL - love that!!

[Douglas Carpenter]

19. I don't care what his religious beliefs are. In theory right-wing Evangelicals should care - But

don't forget - the modern religious right movement was launched in 1980 when conservative-Evangelicals abandoned a Baptist Sunday School teacher and self-professed born-again Christian for a dimwitted B grade ex-movie star who was at best nominally religious and only when it suited him. Make no mistake - this may not be true of all Evangelicals - but when it comes to the fundamentalist Christian right- they are right-wing Republicans first and Christians second.

[yellowcanine]

42. "...right-wing Republicans first and Christians second." Certainly true of "Saint Ralph" (Reed)

"Pious little self righteous fraud" comes to mind.

[Goblinmonger]

20. Yeah, but the whole Jesus is god who performed countless miracles,

and died, and resurrected to save our sins is COMPLETELY logical.

[Marrah_G]

33. I once asked my very Catholic parents about that..

Even my once-a-seminary-student father had no answer as to how his dying and coming back to life saved us.

Just never made any sense to me.

[TheKentuckian]

81. Blood sacrifice with the perfect sacrifice.

The Ressurection negates the Old Covenant.

I know this is a crappy two sentences but I'm at work on my phone but it is hard to get into without starting at the begining of the Jewish religion or so.

[Marrah_G]

87. Even now, that just makes no logical sense to me

[Orangepeel]

100. Religion isn't much for logic

The explanation, as it was explained to me, is that it is about God doing what he said he'd do. When Adam and Eve disobeyed God, he punished them in lots of ways, one of which was that they could no longer live forever (Adam also had to work all day and Eve had to have pain in childbirth). Kind of harsh for stealing an apple, but do the crime, do the time, I guess.

Later, God must have regretted being such a hardass. But, he couldn't go back on his word because that's not the way he rolls, apparently. If Adam and Eve's legacy was to be lifted so that mankind could live forever, somebody had to pay the price and die. Well, not just anybody. Jesus was part of God, so it was also like he was taking on the punishment himself. Once Jesus took the bullet, so to speak, justice was served and we could all live forever (assuming that you were willing to accept that Jesus paid the debt you were born with).

Logical? Not very, except in a vengeance oriented pre-enlightenment kind of way.

[Shadowflash]

32. Yeah.

Because that makes far less sense than Christianity and other religions.

[piratefish08]

36. i love watching religious tales compete on the basis of believability.

eternally entertaining.

[Nye Bevan]

41. Good article in "The Economist" on this.

MY FAVOURITE sentence from last week's leader on Mitt Romney concerns the difficulty presented by his religion, Mormonism, which one in three Americans do not consider to be a branch of Christianity. As we say in the piece, there isn't much the candidate can do about this. "He could explain the Mormons’ extraordinary missionary work, but he can hardly risk saying that it is not really any more incredible that God communicated His plans to man in upstate New York in 1820 than He did in Palestine in 0AD."

I was reminded of that sentence when reading Sam Harris's advice for Mr Romney. Mr Harris says that in order to appease Republicans, 60% of whom believe God created humans 10,000 years ago, he ought to say the following:

"I believe what you believe. Your God is my God. I believe that Jesus Christ was the Messiah and the Son of God, crucified for our sins, and resurrected for our salvation. And I believe that He will return to earth to judge the living and the dead. But my Church offers a further revelation: We believe that when Jesus Christ returns to earth, He will return, not to Jerusalem, or to Baghdad, but to this great nation—and His first stop will be Jackson County, Missouri. The LDS Church teaches that the Garden of Eden itself was in Missouri! Friends, it is a marvelous vision. Some Christians profess not to like this teaching. But I ask you, where would you rather the Garden of Eden be, in the great state of Missouri or in some hellhole in the Middle East?"

Mr Harris is being silly, of course, though he is accurately portraying Mormon beliefs. Prior to this bit, he has Mr Romney explaining to Republicans the teachings of his church, how they were derived "directly from the prophetic experience of its founder, Joseph Smith Jr., who by the aid of sacred seer stones, the Urim and Thummim, was able to decipher the final revelations of God which were written in reformed Egyptian upon a set golden plates revealed to him by the angel Moroni." To most non-Mormons, such events sound wholly unbelievable, just as few believe the Garden of Eden was actually located in Jackson County. It is odd, though, that many who find such stories bizarre, have little trouble believing in older tales involving magical fruit and talking serpents.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2012/01/mormonism?page=3

[yellowcanine]

39. I am not interested in comparing Mormon beliefs to other religions. It is meaningless.

Mormons do consider themselves Christians, anyway. It is not for me to say who is or who is not a Christian. Just about all religions have some pretty strange beliefs in the eyes of people who don't hold those beliefs. The religious right certainly has no room to talk about anyone else's religion, even though they often do. Mormonism does not even register as to why I would not vote for Mitt. His being a Mormon certainly scares me a lot less than Newt Gingrich's brand or Santorum's brand of Catholicism for example.

[HockeyMom]

40. Why does anybody care

what other people believe in unless they are forcing YOU to believe what they do?

[cthulu2016]

54. At the grocery store or in electing a president?

I don't have much issue with what other people believe day-to-day, but when they ask for the nuclear launch codes (which all presidential candidates are doing) the idea of respecting all of a person's deep convictions without examination is tricky.

[HockeyMom]

55. A President shouldn't try to run the country

according to his religious views, be they Christian, Jew, Hindu, or whatever. Personally, I would prefer a President who isn't religious at all. Religion causes far too many problems.

[joeybee12]

46. Rec...when someone starts yakking about their "faith" on the campaign trail...

It's the person who starts the yakking that opens everything up to questioning...fair game.

[Jennicut]

56. I consider myself a liberal Christian.

Or liberal Lutheran, really. My husband is a church organist. I am heavily involved in our Lutheran church. It's a pretty open church and I feel comfortable there as a liberal. Our Lutheran church allows gay clergy. But I believe people have a right to believe in what they want to believe or not believe in any God at all. My only issue with Mormonism is that many Mormons are very anti-gay. That is about my extent into what I would care about with Romney's religious beliefs.

[HockeyMom]

57. I am getting very tired of RELIGION and specifically CHRISTIANS

Why are we even having this discussion? In reading behind the lines of this thread, it seems too many wouldn't ever vote for anyone not a "good" Christian? Oh, man, if you think that, why aren't you a REPUBLICAN????? THEY are the Pary who think we are a Christian Nation, and must have a Christian President who will put their faith into PRACTICE.

Sorry, I don't like it.

[Nye Bevan]

58. I'm planning to vote for a committed, churchgoing Christian Protestant (nt)

[Demonaut]

61. makes sense....mmm..too late to convert?

[Nye Bevan]

79. Are you aware that Mormonism bans coffee? (nt)

[Demonaut]

99. another reason to convert...thanks!...caffeine is the devil

[newspeak]

62. call it prejudice

but I'd never vote for someone like Romney because he's mormon. I've never met a mormon who was not repug (even though a young woman told me her father was pro union and got harassed at church a lot). I lived in utah and have family who are mormon. The closer you are to the temple, the more the church controls every damn aspect of your life. If you want to know what they think of gentiles read "pearl of great price." We are gentiles, you're not to associate with gentiles, you can basically lie, cheat and steal from gentiles, because we are not worthy, like they are(and that's my take on it). When SLC was expanding, it was quite embarrassing uncovering the bodies that were buried. Because when the cult was created, ask too many questions or doubt, in some cases, you disappeared.

The church is very corporatized-it's mostly about business and hierarchy (it seems there is a masonic influence). My hubby once went with his cousin to see the bishop (his cousin, 12 yrs, was mowing lawns) and the bishop told him he wasn't tithing enough. Another mormon friend told me he worked in a factory in SLC and was told he wasn't worthy enough. A bishop told my supervisor that he should tell his wife she shouldn't be working. My supervisor told the bishop, you tell her.

It's the indoctrination and acting without question, and the mindset, that bothers me. And, debating my supervisor about business, the church is really into corporatizing.

[BeeBee]

64. I don't find his religious beliefs any more strange than any of the others. n/t

[barbtries]

67. i couldn't keep reading it.

i agree that mormonism is a weird religion, but then so are they all.

as far as i got did not tell me what romney believes. apparently the mormons like to change their beliefs to keep up with the times.

[Rex]

70. Every PERSON has their own planet and is God

of that planet.

[piratefish08]

93. every man. not every person.

woman don't catch a break in the afterlife either.

[Arugula Latte]

71. IMO, it's just as nutty as "mainstream" Xtian belief.

It's just that more people are familiar with the "regular" Xtian fairy tales and mythology, so it doesn't strike people as being wacky.

[Mass]

73. How can Christians vote for a Republican and half of the Democrats anyway?

Religious beliefs look weird to those who do not believe in them (just think that some Christians believe earth is around 5000 year old). Certainly, mormonism looks weird, but why should this matter?

[madmom]

76. my take on this...

the aliens really are out there and they send "messages" about god, jesus, the holy ghost etc etc, they got a good long run out of that but people started having doubts so they threw in mormonism, that went on for a while, but there are still doubters so then they threw in scientology. I thinks the aliens want to see just how far out they can get and see just how fucking dumb and gullible earthlings really are!

[LeftyMom]

80. Yeah, they should believe that we're all incest babies of a dirt man and his rib woman,

and that god is a bearded guy who lives in a tacky gated community of gilded mansions in the clouds. You know, like normal people.

[TheKentuckian]

82. If you are a Funding demanding a Christian President, you'd come closer with an actual Muslim.

I don't care but I'm not placing a religious test for my candidate.

[white_wolf]

88. The Adam-God doctrine had been abandoned by the Mormon church since before Romney was born.

I think Brigham Young was the last prophet to teach it.

[REP]

89. I grew up in the Garden of Eden (Jackson County, MO)

Yes, LDS and RLDS really believe Jackson County MO is the Garden of Eden. And each MAN can become a god (not women - women serve in this life and the next).

Independence MO is the world headquarters of the RLDS so I doubt Mitt will do well there. No love lost between these two branches. Look it up!

[MellowDem]

91. Doubt he believes it. nt

[backscatter712]

92. Do they still believe God lives on the planet Kolob?

And do they still believe the native Americans were the 13th tribe of Israel?

[LeftyMom]

95. Yes and yes. nt

[FreeState]

97. No and no

LDS have never made the claim that he lives ON Kolob.

Abraham 3:2-3

"saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God;....and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest."[6]

[FreeState]

96. Nothing like taking personal journals and thoughts and applying them to a faith...

This is nothing short of bigotry. Even as an exmormon the OPs link is not only distasteful it's false in many of its accounts, relying on statements and beliefs that have never been part of the cannon or doctrine.

There are many more important issues to attack Romney on than a poorly written and researched anti-Mormon website.

[white_wolf]

98. I have to say this article seems rather right-wing.

It seems to be saying Mormons believe different than us so they are a cult. Anti-Mormon sentiment is strong amongst the right and this article uses the same arguments I heard from the Baptist minister who taught at my school.

[Thrill]

103. Trust Me. A lot of Christians don't know he's a Mormon

Wait until the General Election when the stuff starts getting talked about in their churches

[ZombieHorde]

105. No stranger than the other Abrahamic religions, in my opinion. nt

[pwb]

106. My point in this post is if the Pukes can say President Obama is Muslum

Then we should use Romney is a Mormon. It puts up a flag against him with other religions. We all have to stop being so timid and fight back the same way they do, nasty. Just look what being negative did for Romney in Florida. Politics is no longer being nice. Thanks for all who replied. Fight fire with fire.

[madokie]

107. You forget that the President is a black man and the people who would vote for the likes of mittens

will not let religion get in the way. gotta get the black man out of the white house as quickly as possible is their thinking and that trumps anything and everything else