K&R against ANY U.S. intervention in Venezuela.

[Ken Burch]

If you have any progressive views, and you know the history of Latin America, you have an obligation to stand with the people of Venezuela against the coming U.S. campaign to end the Bolivarian Revolution, now that Hugo Chavez has died.

The people of Venezuela don't WANT to go back...they don't want the "Washington Consensus"...they don't want "Mitt Romney" Capriles...and we need to stand with them as they defend the huge gains they made against the effort, which will start immediately, to destabilize the democratically elected Venezuelan government and either force it into austerity or force it out of power.

That is the ONLY progressive, democratic, humanist position to take.

If they lose, we lose...and the Washington Consensus will never be ended.

[Dreamer Tatum]

1. So you don't want US intervention

Unless, of course, the people make a decision you think they don't want.

Right.

[Ken Burch]

4. I've never said anything that compares to that.

By "we", I meant the people, not the U.S. government...which, in international affairs, no matter who's president, NEVER stands with the people, in case you hadn't noticed that.

Besides, the people of Venezuela don't want Capriles...the election proved that. They could have elected him, and Chavez would have had no choice but to respect their wishes if they had(I'm not sure why some folks here think Capriles was the Venezuelan "messiah", since he was just another neoliberal millionaire political hack).

[LanternWaste]

16. I bet you've passed every ESL course you've taken...

I bet you've passed every ESL course you've taken.

[IrishAyes]

80. That's a damned low blow

... and I'm calling you out for such a comment. Sounds bigoted. You need a different picture. Maybe one of Mutt Romney?

[morningfog]

25. Knee JERK fail, lol.

[grahamhgreen]

65. THINK TANK FAIL!

[JDPriestly]

53. My opinion: either way, we should stay out.

Venezuela has a high literacy rate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Venezuela

They can decide things for themselves. They may be as well or better educated than Americans.

[xtraxritical]

58. It's the oil.

[grahamhgreen]

64. Because agressive wars are AN INTERNATIONAL WAR CRIME, DUH!!!

[Purveyor]

2. I'm in. +1 eom

[silverweb]

3. K&R

[dipsydoodle]

5. K & R

.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

6. Solidarity with Venezuela. n/t

[Hell Hath No Fury]

7. Hands off!

Solidarity with the people of Venezuela!

[CalFresh]

8. Mitt Romney?

The ball is in President Obama court. Who is going to send to the funeral? Joe Biden, John Kerry, Dennis Rodman, or maybe the President should go himself. It's time to have a friendship with the leadership of Venezuela. Or do we back some army colonel in a take over? Well Mr President?

[Ken Burch]

9. I was comparing Capriles to Mitt...not saying that Mitt's in power here.

Sorry for the confusion in my phrasing.

[Pararescue]

15. How about Sean Penn?

I'm against U.S. intervention in other countries affairs. Let the People of Venezuela chart their own counties course, it is, after all, their country.

[Ken Burch]

38. What about Sean? Great movies...nice work in Haiti...but he really needs to lose the 'stache.

It makes him look like a serial killer.

[Pararescue]

39. He was an ardent supporter of Hugo Chavez,

he would be a better representative for the U.S. than a politician.
All his movies were excellent but my two favorite were Fast Times at Ridgemont High and Gangster Squad.

[Ken Burch]

41. Oh, I see. Yeah, you're right-we should send Penn to that.

n/t.

[Luminous Animal]

10. K&R

[magellan]

11. knr

[theKed]

13. Damn right.

[socialist_n_TN]

14. Kick.....

US STAY OUT OF VENEZUELA!

[me b zola]

17. K&R

[99Forever]

18. K&R

[Doc Holliday]

19. Aw, come on.

Venezuela would be just the toehold we need on the continent.

Think of the business opportunities....

[shcrane71]

20. No countries in the Americas would recognize the Venezuelan gov't after the coup

with the exception of the USA. I believe it took the US about 24 hours to recognize the new gov't of the failed coup d'etat.

[mountain grammy]

21. Agree, but the president should attend the funeral.

Rest in peace, Hugo Chavez. I loved you for standing against W and the evil empire. We have to trust Venezuelans to do what's right for them. Chavez will be a hard act to follow.

[bluedigger]

22. Maybe we'll send Biden.

But I doubt it. Did you see the President's response?

[mountain grammy]

33. No, not yet, looking now.

[Ken Burch]

28. Going to a funeral isn't intervention.

It's just decency and respect.

[mountain grammy]

34. Of course! That's what I meant.

[roody]

63. I hope Obama has enough decency and respect.

[TomClash]

23. You bet

Even though you think the Israeli apologists are human.

[Ken Burch]

26. I do think they're human. n/t.

[TomClash]

73. It was a joke nt

[cp]

24. Gloria al Bravo Pueblo

Solidarity with Venezuelans!

[KoKo]

27. Like the Serpents of Dark...they delight in Chavez Death...

K&R...that the "Serpents of Dark" do not succeed THIS TIME...

[Cleita]

29. I don't think you need to worry about that.

US policy is not to invade and colonize Latin America in the old fashioned sense. They find it easier to buy governments, well the government ruling classes anyway. That way they don't have to do the messy governing and providing of services to the people like we have had to do in other nations we invade with boots on the ground.

[Ken Burch]

30. We need to stand against THAT kind of intervention too.

Private-sector imperialism is STILL imperialism.

[Cleita]

32. No disagreement from me. I wish we would.

But Americans really buy into all the propaganda spread about the leaders our government doesn't like.

[lunasun]

52. Americans really buy into all the propaganda spread about the leaders our government doesn't like.

Oh yes - so spot on for so many in the U.S> if you keep repeating it,then it becomes fact and the truth

[Lydia Leftcoast]

57. Oh heavens yes! More proof that propaganda works!

The comments on Facebook, showing that even otherwise sensible people have bought all the propaganda, make me want to bang my head against the wall.

[joshcryer]

46. Yep, and the rise of the boligarchs was a failing even Chavez admited.

Here's the rub. The US is the only country with the capacity and the thirst for Venezuelan heavy crude (nasty stuff to refine). Therefore for Venezuela to operate on the oil markets (and the globalized market in general) Chavez had to do a deal with the devil. And that deal resulted in billionaires rising to the top on the backs of the impoverished in Venezuela.

[rurallib]

31. with all that oil, I am sure we have been there for a long time already

but one can hope.

[IDemo]

35. Andrea Mitchell Greenspan was glowing with the possibilities

"Make no mistake, Brian - Fifty Billion Dollars of trade, oil, oil, and lots of....oil! Back to you, Brian."

[Ken Burch]

37. in other words...she had multiple oilgasms...

[Overseas]

36. K&R. Strongly agree.

[Demo_Chris]

40. rec

[Plucketeer]

42. I'm with you here

that is if it isn't already in motion!

[davidthegnome]

43. K & R...

Not sure what we can do to stop it, but I'm definitely opposed to it.

[DonCoquixote]

44. K and R

The sad thing is...I fear both parties have it in motion. Even if Obama was opposed, I have a bad feelign our current Sos would love to play maggie thatcher come 2016. As far as marco Rubio, that guy will play Caesar in Latin America.

[joshcryer]

45. I'd wish DU not be used as a chavista propaganda outlet.

The homophobic bigot Maduro basically said that the US was going to invade and saber rattled about potential terror if everyone didn't fall in line.

There is no possibility of the US under Obama having a significant impact in Venezuela. Even if USAID was employed it would not come anywhere near the money effort that the chavistas have to spend. Upwards of a billion or more with a monopoly on the airwaves (yes, they have a monopoly because at any time they can take over the airwaves and air their campaign propaganda, Chavez did over 100 hours of "cadenas" during his last election, when campaigners were limited by Venezuelan law to 2 or 3 30 second spots a day).

I stand with the people of Venezuela against needless murders, death, violence, and poverty. I stand against the boligarchs. I stand against the rich elites like Gustavo Cisneros, hosters of the 2002 coupsters. I stand against black and white purity tests and "you're either with us or you're against us" false dilemmas. Some chavistas have the right idea, some opposition members have the right idea. Many more chavistas are corrupt cronist capitalists who only want to enrich themselves and their inner circle at the cost of many Venezuelan lives.

[Ken Burch]

47. Here's an item from the Wikipedia entry on LGBT rights in Venezuela:

"Discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation was outlawed in the 1999 Labour Organic Law (Ley Orgánica de Trabajo)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Venezuela

Therefore, while work needs to be done, on the federal level in Venezuela, LGBT people are in better shape there than here.

The people of Venezuela saw what your man Capriles was about...and they didn't want it. Just accept that already.

Also, if you read further down in the Wikipedia link, you'll discover that the lack of constitutional protections for LGBT people in the new Venezuelan constitution was not the result of chavista opposition to such protections, but due to the opposition of the Catholic hierarchy(the same hierarchy that backed your man Capriles like they ALWAYS back the more right-wing candidate in any election)to such protections. They may still be added later(and there's no reason to think that there more likely to be added by a "free market" Venezuelan government, since most capitalists will never give a flying fuck about LGBT people).

And with that, the notion that the chavistas are the special enemies of gays in Venezuela(a country where no pre-Chavez leader ever did anything pro-gay at all) is hereby discredited.

[joshcryer]

89. Maduro and some chavistas are absolutely homophobic bigots.

Please don't tell me you forgot already how they slandered Capriles as gay throughout the campaign.

[roody]

68. You can't wish us to ignorance.

[Violet_Crumble]

48. K&R n/t

[TBF]

49. Ken there is a very nice piece in Salon this morning

that zeroes in on Chavez' economic policies. I think they did a fair treatment of acknowledging the violence in the country, but also discuss the gains made economically via socialism.

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/06/hugo_chavezs_economic_miracle/

[Snarkoleptic]

50. You fail to recognize that multinational corporations have a divine right to their resources.

[RKP5637]

51. K&R !!! n/t

[ReRe]

54. K&R

I'm with you, Ken Burch, and the Venezuelan People. They have made so much progress, but have so much more to do. They need to keep going, full steam ahead, wiping out more and more of the poverty and cleaning up the corruption. I cringe every time I hear the MSM call him a dictator, and they are doing a bang-up job of it today. I heard Eugene Robinson speaking against Chavez and could not believe my ears. I even heard someone right here on DU call Chavez a thug earlier today, evidently a greenhorn who listens and believes everything that comes out of the mouths of the MSM, i.e. TPTB status quo.

USA: Leave Venezuela alone!

[riverbendviewgal]

55. America stay away for Venezuela

In fact all of South America does not want yoru "advice" anymore.

K & R

[Ganja Ninja]

56. K & R

[Duval]

59. K&R n/t

[demosocialist]

60. K&R nt

[CarmanK]

61. Why in the hell would we interfere with Venezuela Business? it is not our nation, it is the peoples.

[Brother Buzz]

62. We need to apply a little sequestering to the NGO's like NED and put them on a hiatus, too

NED (National Endowment for Democracy)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Endowment_for_Democracy

[caseymoz]

66. K&R

[Taverner]

67. Amen. VIVA SOCIALISMO!

[Myrina]

69. K&R

N/T

[JustAnotherGen]

70. k and r

[FiveGoodMen]

71. Absolutely!

K&R

[DeSwiss]

72. How bout' Melanie....

Venezuela's Chavez offers heat to villages

ADN
Published: November 28, 2008

Melanie Edwards lives in Nome, where she's the vice president of the regional nonprofit that manages the heating-oil program for more than a dozen nearby villages.

"Last time I checked, (Citgo is) paying corporate taxes to the U.S. Treasury," she said. "And we figure until such time that the U.S. government is so offended by Venezuela and Citgo that they're not accepting any more funding, then we're not being unpatriotic by accepting the same."

Read more here: http://www.adn.com/2008/11/28/604423/venezuelas-chavez-offers-heat.html#storylink=cpy

- K&R

[Granny M]

74. Rec'd and kicked. nt

[malthaussen]

75. Easy one to KnR.

But we shall see what we shall see.

-- Mal

[geek tragedy]

76. Hands off! nt

[brooklynite]

77. UNREC

Point to any evidence of a plot BY THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION to overthrow the Venezuela Government.

[Ken Burch]

82. It doesn't even have to be the Obama Administration itself.

You're assuming the it makes a difference to the CIA who's president or not, in terms of how the agency operates. It doesn't. The CIA doesn't give a crap if a president doesn't want it to do something.

[brooklynite]

83. So you think the President is either helpless or a dupe to "Them"

Almost as irresponsible.

[Ken Burch]

84. The NSS has little, if any accountability.

A president that seriously risks standing up to it takes her or his life in his or her hands...just ask JFK...oh, sorry, you can't.

I'm not dissing Obama...I'm just being real.

[brooklynite]

85. Still waiting for evidence...

...any time you're ready.

[Ken Burch]

87. Why on Earth do you doubt me?

The CIA has NEVER pulled back from treachery on the orders of ANY president. You can't supply any instance in which they've ever accepted accountability.

[Dawson Leery]

78. K/R

[rainy]

79. US KEEP OUT K& R

[KamaAina]

81. Is there any way they can undiscover the oil?

That way we wouldn't be interested in the fate of a few million brown people.

[brooklynite]

86. K&R against ANY U.S. intervention in Canada

Just as unlikely...

[Ken Burch]

88. No, just as common.

Thanks to NAFTA, the U.S. has total control of the Canadian economy, and essentially dictates the limits of the Canadian political spectrum. Even if the New Democratic Party, the supposedly "center-left" opposition party, wins the next election, it will do no nationalization and no major increases in corporate taxes...thus, it won't be able to be different from the Conservative government on anything but a few trivial side issues like rights matters...issues that only matter to the middle class.