"That for which the flag stands" or, Don't Mistake the Finger pointing at the Moon for the Moon

[drokhole]

“I am amazed that Congressme­­n can pass a bill imposing severe penalties on anyone who burns the American flag, whereas they are responsibl­­e for burning that for which the flag stands: the United States as a territory, as a people, and as a biological manifestat­­ion. Therein is exemplified the peculiar and perhaps fatal fallacy of civilization: the perennial confusion of symbol with reality.

And they put this law through with a great deal of patriotic oratory, ignoring the fact entirely that these same congressme­­n, by acts of commission or omission, are burning up that for which the flag stands. They are allowing the utter pollution of our waters, of our atmosphere­­, the devastation of our forests."

- Alan Watts

It's unfortunate that there isn't as much outrage and enormous coverage over the burning, polluting and plundering of the territory and people that the flag is supposed to represent. It wouldn't be the only place we find ourselves caught up in these vast abstractions, confusing symbol with that which it points to (or is supposed to point to, at least):

"Truth has nothing to do with words. Truth can be likened to the bright moon in the sky. Words, in this case, can be likened to a finger. The finger can point to the moon’s location. However, the finger is not the moon. To look at the moon, it is necessary to gaze beyond the finger, right?"

- old Zen kōan

[gratuitous]

1. And even the moon isn't the source of light

Which further adds to the confoundment of some people taken in by blue fields, white stars and peppermint stripes.

[Bonobo]

2. Wisdom. Recced. nt

[sabrina 1]

3. Excellent quotation. Thank you. Another one that expresses the same sentiment:

I would rather see people wrap themselves in the Constitution and burn the Flag, than wrap themselves in the Flag and burn the Consitution I do not know who to attribute it to, but it was said often during the Bush era.

But jingoism and symbolism have always been used to distract from issues raised by the people that threaten those who have zero respect for the rights of those people. Sad to see it still being used, especially after the long, tragic eight years of the Bush administration where all those Republicans wore their lapel flag pins as weapons against 'liberals' who were, after all, right about what was being done to this country.

[hifiguy]

6. I want to say that Molly Ivins said that

but I can't be sure. It sure sounds like Molly, though. And oh, how true it is.

[sabrina 1]

8. It does sound like her, Molly always had her priorities in the correct order :-)

Although I wonder how popular she would be today on this new DU? Considering all the other progressive writers who have landed under the bus ....

[sabrina 1]

13. I did find the person to whom that quote is attributed, not Molly although I'm sure she

agreed with it. It was Craig Washington.

http://www.quotesdaddy.com/quote/201688/craig-washington/i-prefer-a-man-who-will-burn-the-flag-and-then-wrap

[ProSense]

7. That's

I would rather see people wrap themselves in the Constitution and burn the Flag, than wrap themselves in the Flag and burn the Consitution I do not know who to attribute it to, but it was said often during the Bush era.

...still symbolism, burning or wrapping oneself in the Constitution.

Remember, "It's just a goddamned piece of paper."

[sabrina 1]

9. No, the Constitution is the law of the land. The flag is merely a symbol without which the country

would survive. Without the Constitution, which is a big part of what the OWS movement is about btw, equality for all citizens, supported by the rule of law, this would no longer be the USA.

[ProSense]

10. That's

"No, the Constitution is the law of the land. The flag is merely a symbol without which the country"

...not the point. Wrapping oneself in the Constitution or burning a document is free speech. Such a wrap is not the "law of the land," it's symbolic.

The point is that burning flags, books, bibles, the Constitution or any other symbol is free speech.

[sabrina 1]

12. Sure it is, but burning up what actually makes this country what it is as opposed to a mere

symbol, is an entirely different matter. Which may be why you rarely if ever, at least I have not, see anyone burning the Constitution.

[HopeHoops]

11. It's still a piece of paper - fortunately one that's been copied many times.

We've got about a dozen in the house (and I can usually only find one when I need it). The flag has also been copied. Both are temporary objects in their physical state, but lasting in their temporal state.

[sabrina 1]

14. A culture is defined by an agreement on the part of the majority as to what its principles are

whether written down or not. Without that agreement, no symbol, such as a flag, means much of anything though.

[HopeHoops]

15. Quite true. Quite true.

Well, except when it's parents with children. The parents ARE the majority (at least until the kids get older).

[baldguy]

4. K & fuckin' R!

[Uncle Joe]

5. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, drokhole.

[CanSocDem]

16. Great post....

...and though it may appear that I have "no dog in this fight", I am compelled to support those that can see the difference between symbols and substance.

"It's unfortunate that there isn't as much outrage and enormous coverage over the burning, polluting and plundering of the territory and people that the flag is supposed to represent."

Well said.

.