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It's something I've become quite curious about. I've done the google search and sifted through all that stuff, both pro and con. This morning while eating out for breakfast with family, I brought it up with my Dad that I remembered him talking a lot about masonry with my mother when I was a kid. This was like 35-40 years ago. And I never recalled my father being an active mason, ever. But anyway, I proceeded to talk about it with anyone willing to listen. I was asking how and when the funny handshake occurs and so on, and my Dad started getting seriously pissed off at me. And I'm left wondering why? What the hell is the deal? He's never been an active mason so far as I can recall. I'm wondering do masons spend their lives looking for signs and signals from other masons? And for what reason? What is the point? What if you do the thumb in the knuckle groove handshake with a non-mason and the dude thinks your weird and asks why the strange grip? I just don't get it.
union_maid
(3,502 posts)I believe my uncle was a Mason. I doubt he was ever active in any way, but there was no talking about it. I'd love to know more about it, just out of curiosity.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Allowed to pass lots of information to non members, this should be respected.
CANDO
(2,068 posts)I do respect the fact that it's a secret society. I just want to know "why". My Dad told me to stop talking about it because there were other masons in the restaurant. He didn't interact with anyone other than the people at our table, but he somehow knew that. I think he was full of shit on that. But, why the agitation bordering on anger? So you meet a stranger and you're curious whether he's a mason. Why? Do you ascertain his status with code words or the handshake? And again, WHY? Do you do things for each other?
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Respect your father after becoming a free mason he is not supposed to talk to a non member. Especially in a restaurant where others are listening, you should tell your father you are sorry for asking.
FreeState
(10,580 posts)If so I'm curious as to what you think of the similarities of Mormonism and masonry.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)This is an organization which does not force men to join so a mason should respect their rules. They are helpful in the community and help each other.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)much taken with the rituals of Masonry. I understand (not being Mormon) that many of the Mormon ceremonies have great similarity to certain Masonic rituals.
KatyMan
(4,209 posts)That's a little strong.
Hestia
(3,818 posts)and the judge is compelled as a Brother to help him. The tiff that ensued came from the Prosecutor who is a Mason also. Bil got out of it. Bil felt he had nothing to lose by trying and it worked.
If you are so interested, call the Grand Lodge of your state and ask them or they will get you in touch with someone from your local area to explain the exo(teric) because they cannot explain the eso(teric) if you are uninitiated.
The best book I have read about the Lodge system is John Michael Greer's "Inside a Magical Lodge," which explains why it is all there in the first place.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)a very hard time believing that's the way it happened.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)If someone doesn't want to discuss things, pushing the subject is not good manners. I shared a home and a life with a mason and there has to be trust and understanding involved. He could not share everything with me and I understood that and trusted him.
There are intricacies within my religion that I will not discuss except with another person of equal degree within that same religious tradition.
CANDO
(2,068 posts)And in all my years growing up, he never went to Lodge meetings to my knowledge. I just remembered there were discussions between him and my mother about it. Today he said he's a 32nd Degree mason, to which I thought sounded impressive. Upon researching it, a 32nd Degree mason has no more rank than a simple 3rd Degree Master Mason. You can apparently attain a 32nd Degree Masonry over a weekend at some Scottish Rite Lodges. Of course you would've had to be a full 3rd Degree Master Mason to begin with. But it gives you no more rank, and the way my Dad put it out there was that it was something rare and special, or high ranking. I suspect he's using the whole Mason thing as a sort of secret status symbol instead of actually being an active member.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Now you do have to be Christian or at least swear allegiance to Christ in some way for that particular group I believe. I was one of those organizations my ex did not join because he was not Christian.
But regardless of whether or not he is active, he took an oath. he gave his word. You should be proud to have a parent that keeps their word. It's a good thing.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,377 posts)The Masonic Order nor the Scottish Rite does not ask that you "Swear Allegiance to Christ", rather it requires belief in the "Great Architect of the Universe".
The belief system is more Deism than anything else.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)I am fairly certain that I remember this decision being a struggle for him.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)It's been ten years and my memory isn't what it once was
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)must first be a Master Mason, and Masons have lots of Jewish members. There is an essentially parallel group called the York Rite, also for Master Masons to progress in their knowledge of Masonry. There is a sub-group of York Rite know as the Knights Templar. To belong to Knights Templar you must be a Christian. But that is the only instance of this in Masonry.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Is this the one called 33rd degree then?
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)whereby the Mason advances in knowledge of Masonry - its history, its pageantry, its ceremonies, etc. degree by degree. In both Scottish and York Rites of Masony the highest a Mason can go by his own merits is 32nd degree. However, there is a higher degree - 33 degree which is reserved to be awarded by the organization to its brothers who have extraordinarily contributed to Masonry and the community. One can't seek to be awarded this degree- it has to be awarded spontaneously by those brothers who know and value the Mason's work. It is quite an honor as there are relatively few of these.
CANDO
(2,068 posts)I came across one which said when the 33rd degree is bestowed upon a member, that is when he learns that Masonry is the Original religion upon which all others are based. More or less implying that it is based upon an organic, natural truth. But the site may have been one of the christian based ones which are fearful of any other religion but its own.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)of the site you reference. The 33 degree (at least in Scottish Rite Masonry, with which I am familiar) is really an honorific, bestowed by the Scottish Rite on those S.R. Masons who have shown outstanding leadership in their communities and their organization. Nothing in Masonry teaches that Masonry is the 'original religion, etc..'. In fact. Masonry is very clear that it is not a religious organization at all, encompassing Masons of many different faiths. The only religous component to Masonry is that, to become a Mason you must affirm that you believe in a Supreme Being. No other designation is used and no religious test of any kind is applied.
lapislzi
(5,762 posts)It is a society with secrets. Most of the information for the curious is available online.
While it's true that many Freemasons prefer not to discuss their membership and practices with nonmembers, most will answer your questions to the best of their ability and within the boundaries of their "oaths."
I worked very closely with Freemasons for many years and learned a lot about their beliefs, practices, and rituals--probably as much, or more than most women.
G'head, ask me anything. If I know it, I'll answer.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)You can't start masonry without a good foundation, and that's all the "free" part means...
waste of time,
learn how to lap valves instead-
Recursion
(56,582 posts)It's the Elk's club, with some gnostic imagery.
doesn't mean that they will accept you. one of my sons tried to become a freemason (his paternal grandfather is one), but his grandfather rejected his request. why would that happen? fwiw, my ggrandfather was a mason too, nobody after him though.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)My dad was not a Mason. But, he was a salesman. He said when someone did that handshake to him, he did it back. Apparently, helped close some deals.
I hope someone can explain the Masons simply without having to wade through a bunch of dense stuff.
CANDO
(2,068 posts)Used his Masonic membership as an excuse to get out of town to "meetings". My wife's sister eventually caught on to the out of town Lodge meetings!
lapislzi
(5,762 posts)A bunch of men carry out quasi-religious rituals based on arcane medieval symbolism. Their fraternity has evolved into a kind of business network.
They do charity work.
That's pretty much it.
Orrex
(63,224 posts)Among others.
JVS
(61,935 posts)The secrets used to be there because freemasons wanted to create a space for egalitarian social interaction between individuals from the nobility and burghers. Such a thing used to be subversive. Now it's more or less Rotarians with a few weird rituals. Use the handshake, maybe you'll make a few more sales.
CANDO
(2,068 posts)Just to see what the response is. I suppose I should learn the code words also...BOAZ, Shibbeloth, Lachin, etc.
lapislzi
(5,762 posts)Is he on the level? On the square?
I forget some of the others. For fun, watch "The Man Who Would Be King" with Michael Caine. Great stuff--the Freemasons I used to know would show it once a year as a charity potluck thing. Kipling was a very active Freemason.
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)They seem(ed) to enjoy it. They talked more about the functions and such than anything else about it.
There are some interesting books at archive.org you can get for free on it.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)Outside one member I knew from my deputy days who would tell me weird stories about it some nights when he would come visit me when I was working at the nursing home (was a security guard at that point and he would come by to check on me since his cruise was assigned that area and we would chat about the 'old' days when I worked there too).
Aunt and uncle were always doing fund raisers, etc - but they were well connected because of it. It was like linked in
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)...and we're not talking about juicy stuff...
Like...why did Frank wear red shoes instead of black during the last Thanksgiving Food Drive...
Seriously
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)He is what they call at "Past-Master". meaning he has in the past been master of one or more lodges.
Masonry is a brotherhood that focuses on good character and charity. The Shiners, for example, are an organization within the Masons. Most of the focus was actually on raising money for one charity or another.
They require some sense of spirituality, but not a specific type. In my time spend around Masons a good chunk of the younger members ( a very rare thing these days) were different traditions of Pagan. Much of the ritual comes from a variety of ancient religions. They get the added bonus of getting to wear a tux and a top hat and some cool jewelry.
They also have a female group associated with them called The Eastern Star. I did not join as I felt that in being a Priestess in my own religion I could not in good faith join a group in which I needed to have a father or husband in it to qualify. Instead, I helped with events, organizing, hostessing, etc.
The majority of my time spent around the Masons was positive, with the exception of a brief period where some older members pitched a little fit over my ex being a Wiccan.
The Masons themselves are a rapidly aging group. I think many people don't realize just how elderly the average mason is. In fact the very old temple that I was associated with has since been sold off due to inability to pay the upkeep because of membership. Sad really, as it was a gorgeous building in a historic new england town.
There is also alot of history within the Masons. We would not be the country we are today without them. One of the tavernsin Boston used for planning the Revolution was also a Masonic hall upstairs. The Boston Grand Lodge has the largest old text library in the country ( its soo cool) and in a backroom there are minutes from the night of the Boston Tea Party. The page simply has the letter T on it.
BainsBane
(53,066 posts)I've encountered it in many 19th century documents and writings. I must say I never quite understood it. It wasn't central to my research so I didn't spend much time on it, but the fear seem to stem from the secrecy of the group.
love_katz
(2,584 posts)and my mom has been in all of their women's organizations. I participated for a few years in one of their youth organizations, but I mainly did it to please my mom and grandparents.
I agree with the poster who said it is mainly focused on charity and raising funds for their charities. Too much flag waving and bible kissing for my personal taste.
However, the Masons may well have played an important part in the early founding of this country (supposedly most of the founders were Masons), and they may have played important parts in political events in Europe, as well.
The paranoid babbling about the Masons being the Illuminati are a bunch of hooey, in my opinion. Some people get excited because the bible isn't the only holy book that can be placed on the altar. Meh. The holy book that is placed on the altar depends on what faith that group of Masons happens to practice. In some countries, the Koran would be on the altar. In other countries, it might be the Torah. Big deal!
My own father explained that their basic aim was to persuade the members to be the best persons and citizens that they could be.
I did some reading, and it appears that they use teachings from religions and philosophies from all over the world. The main problem some folks have with them is that they ARE a secret society, although if you want to cruise used book stores you can research a lot of what you might want to know, so it really isn't all that secret.
Nonetheless, thank you to Marah G for her posts on this subject. It sounds to me like she knows whereof she speaks.
My impression: they are basically honorable as an organization; many of the members are quite elderly and are sometimes just as conservative in their political and religious viewpoints as any Republican; as a group they are having trouble attracting enough younger members to keep their organizations going. Personal opinion, which could be incorrect, is that most of what they are about is not very relevant to younger generations.
I agree with the posters who feel that the members' oaths of secrecy should be respected. Don't ask questions in public, it is just kind of rude. You can always research if you want to know more. The book by John Greer, mentioned above, might be a good place to start, or check you local used bookstore, where the esoteric books are kept.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)And thank you for your kind words
love_katz
(2,584 posts)And you are most welcome. It is nice to see folks with knowledge commenting.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)are in. If a Jewish Mason is sworn in, the Torah is used rather than the Christian Bible. A Muslim Mason would have the Quran.
Phillip McCleod
(1,837 posts)without putting dad on the spot again. there's tons of sites by.. of all people.. born-again christians who used to be freemasons and now think it's satanic, and they've published every scrap of every rite, password and handshake worth reading, both blue lodge and scottish rite.
more to the point though it's a pretty damn old organization so there's tons of literature on the subject once you start browsing. from a.e. waite to manly hall and on and on there are history and speculation all written in deliciously purple prose. absolutely fascinating lens through which to look at the last couple centuries of western history. plus the books are old, leatherbound, gild-edged and smell like.. books!
now to the comments.. the folks who said the masons are basically a charitable/social group nailed it. elks club with hermeticism i'd call it, rather than 'gnostic' elements (the gnostic elements are mere artifacts of rosicrucian hermeticism, see, i.e., dame francis yates). not just benign in our times, but, yeah, pretty much benevolent..
..except in the south. there, unless we're talking prince hall masonry, there is little difference between the masons and the good ole boys network. out west it gets complicated too as many masons (kit carson for example, or the founders of the mormon church) were also ruthless indian-killing genocidal maniacs whose memory deserves naught but a turd atop it.
definitely NOT a homogeneous group.. until recently about 10% of the adult male population was a member. any religion, any race (but not NO religion, and NO women).
olddots
(10,237 posts)Brother Buzz
(36,463 posts)UnrepentantLiberal
(11,700 posts)olddots
(10,237 posts)Some people still believe the Masons are behind a lot of conspiracies ---123 who Perry,Pamella or James ?
Oldfolkie
(51 posts),,,the main activity of his group was teaching new men to pass the various levels, and a yearly fund raising drive for the children's burn hospital there in Dallas.
My Mom was Eastern Star. They did not try to recruit my broyher and me. The idea was that we had to show interest first, as I recall. This was at least 40-50 years ago.
lapislzi
(5,762 posts)Freemasons are not permitted to "recruit." It's one of the reasons their membership is aging and fewer young people are joining.
To become a Freemason, you must approach one and ask. Then you will attend the "open" part of their Lodge meeting, have a home visit (they interview your wife), and ask all kinds of questions before voting on your prospective membership.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)and he always wore a Masonic signet ring. I never got to talk to him about it 'cause he died when I was 12 and it was only later that I recognized the Masonic Square and Compass logo.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)Buns_of_Fire
(17,194 posts)As a member of The Secret Brotherhood of the Three Amigos (SBTA), we have a secret greeting we use to recognize each other. We're so secret, we don't even know how many members there are (primarily because most of the membership refuses to give the Official Amigos Salute in public):
I think it has something to do with the fear of being arrested.
MineralMan
(146,329 posts)That is all you need to know.
lapislzi
(5,762 posts)HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)In the 1890s, mixed lodges following a standard masonic ritual started to appear in France, and quickly spread to other countries. Women-only jurisdictions appeared soon afterwards. As a general rule, the admission of women is now recognised in Continental (Grand Orient) jurisdictions. In Anglo-American Freemasonry, neither mixed nor all-female lodges are officially recognised, although unofficial relations can be cordial, with premises sometimes shared.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasonry_and_women
kattycat
(32 posts)s the Anti-Masonic Party.
broiles
(1,370 posts)Javaman
(62,534 posts)he went to the meetings for over 20 years then one day, he stopped. Never said why.
I looked into it and the American chapter requires one to recognize Jesus and the lord and savior, French Masons are secular.
I would be more apt to join the Masons in France then the version here, but sadly, I live here.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)a belief in a Supreme Being, not however any alliegance to Jesus. In France atheists are permitted to become Masons. Please don't let that misunderstanding prevent you from looking into Masonry. It's a wonderful organization.
Javaman
(62,534 posts)It's been a while since I looked at their website.
I'm an atheist and that was still enough for me to not want to join.
Thanks for the correction.
Brother Buzz
(36,463 posts)How does that square with Jewish Masons?
I was told by a member of a California Lodge, Masons only required a belief in a Supreme Being, and even that might be subject to a broad interpretation.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)requires that you recognize a Supreme Being. I don't think it's subject overall to much interpretation since the U.S. Masonic Lodges (at least in Florida) have been ordered not to attend or recognize Masons from French Lodges, since the French Masons permit atheists to join. However, whatever one's personal definition of 'Supreme Being' is perfectly acceptable.
JustAnotherGen
(31,879 posts)Hierarchal organization throughout world history.
2naSalit
(86,775 posts)were all rather well to do, much older, and rather benevolent. The one I knew best actually became my benefactor for a European event that I was to perform for and had to provide my own transportation to get there (as a student, that was not in my budget at all). He did it anonymously but I found out who had helped me and I painted a hand made greeting card to thank him for his help. He carried the card around in his briefcase and whenever we were at some casual event at the same time, he would pull that card out and show it to everyone and tell them that I made it. He was fun, we were in a community choir together and he was always right behind me at our performances, that's how I met him.
He always wore Mason's insignia jewelry and was like an adopted grandfather who would not let me fall into a financial abyss while I was in school. He passed shortly after I graduated but I will always remember his favor in helping me when I truly needed it. I asked his sons to put another card in his casket before he was buried. We passed it around at the wake so all his friends could sign it before it went with him... they all knew about the "thank you" card.
The group is an archaic fellowship but I think a lot of the fear came from the fact that they were not into the christian zealotry and that caused the zealots some heartburn... the best way to reduce the value of an organization is to make stuff up that would scare those who know nothing about it to begin with.
love_katz
(2,584 posts)I asked my Dad a few questions about Masonry when I read that the Southern Baptist church made a policy to kick out any Masons who were in leadership positions in their churches, and accused them of being Satanists, etc. It was all a bunch of hooey, and it was because the Masonic orders are not fundy fanatic zealots that caused the Southern Baptists to make up a bunch of schlok and try to get their sheeple to believe it. Many elderly Masons who had belonged to the Southern Baptist churches were pretty upset by the whole thing.
I love your last sentence: " but I think a lot of the fear came from the fact that they were not into the christian zealotry and that caused the zealots some heartburn... the best way to reduce the value of an organization is to make stuff up that would scare those who know nothing about it to begin with." Heartburn indeed! Perfect description, as well as "make stuff up..." to scare people who know nothing about it. Word!
Making stuff up - proven time and again to be the regular M.O. of the brainless, classless fundy fanatic extremists.
2naSalit
(86,775 posts)engaged in religion warfare. We had ultra fundies, 7 day adventists, jews (the original group on one side), catholics and lutherans... I decided to eschew all of them by my mid teens which put me squarely in the position of being called a "snake slithering on my way to hell" for anything I did whether it was to not go to any of all the churches, refused to be baptized, and didn't read the books foisted on me that I was actually supposed to memorize... can't imagine memorizing that verbatim but that's what they expected. And, of course, each group claimed to be the true children of god and that all the others were satanists or just simply not worthy of going to heaven like the chosen ones.
It was all too much divisive rhetoric that made me realize they were making a lot of it up, so I have been happily finding my spirituality on my own and feel quite comfortable with it.
The making stuff up is the best game in town when it comes to convincing the dim bulbs that you are to be believed and revered. I've heard all the rumors about the masons and others and I have to just shake my head. I have learned in my travels that it pretty much doesn't matter what methodology you tend to lean toward as long as you have the right intention and understanding of what it's about, having a system or practice that connects you to the universal mind or god or whatever you call the higher energy, it's how you put that energy to use that matters. Making stuff up about people who are using the energy to good but aren't kneeling at the same alter is not putting the energy to it's proper use. Too bad that so many on the planet are conditioned to think that everyone has to obey some human's dictates to be worthy of respect as a member of the species...
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)book but it's a cut above; the documentation is real & there's no 'woo-hoo' tone making mountains out of molehills; the author doesn't push his hypotheses past the documentation available (despite the lead review that makes it sound like he does).
http://www.amazon.com/Born-Blood-Lost-Secrets-Freemasonry/dp/1590771486/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
Hugabear
(10,340 posts)At least, that's what I've heard on the History Channel.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)The next thing you'll be telling them about our ties to the Illuminati and the Bildergerg Group.
Brother Buzz
(36,463 posts)you guys have an working alliance with the Stonecutters
http://www.hulu.com/watch/1183
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)Brother Buzz
(36,463 posts)COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)but The Mystic Knights of the Sea are a bunch of really cool Brothers.
treestar
(82,383 posts)And writes a tell all book.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)who have broken with it (often Xian Fundamentalists) and who have then published lots of supposed information about Masonic Rituals and similar. Most Masons however believe in honoring the pledge of secrecy they took when they joined the Masons as the honorable and right thing to do. They actually believe that 'A Man's word is his bond'.
mercuryblues
(14,537 posts)tells me this country was founded on religion.
My go to reply....Many signers of the DOI, Our 1st elected president were freemasons. Which your church says worships Satan. How do you reconcile those two opposite beliefs?
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)I kind of think he was dropping hints about it to get me interested, but it just didn't seem to be my thing. Honestly, though, I can't give any information other than vague rumors.
RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)Sounds terrible!