Pope urges religions, those with no church to ally for justice

[cbayer]

cross posted in Interfaith group

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1264408

Pope urges religions, those with no church to ally for justice

http://news.yahoo.com/pope-urges-religions-those-no-church-ally-justice-154731915.html

By Philip Pullella
VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Pope Francis urged members of all religions and those belonging to no church on Wednesday to unite to defend justice, peace and the environment and not allow the value of a person to be reduced to "what he produces and what he consumes".

-snip-

While he said history had shown that any attempt to eliminate God had produced "much violence," he reached out to those who seek truth, goodness and beauty without belonging to any religion.

"They are our precious allies in the commitment to defend human dignity, build a more peaceful coexistence among people and protect nature with care," he said.


Francis' description of people who belong to no religion as "precious allies" in the search for truth was a marked contrast to the attitude of former Pope Benedict, who sometimes left non-Catholics feeling that he saw them as second-class believers.

more at link

[msongs]

1. attempts to promote god have produced "much violence" from his own church nt

[HERVEPA]

2. 'While he said history had shown that any attempt to eliminate God had produced "much violence,..."

in what universe does he live? Would have been an OK pronouncement if he left that crap out.

Please note. This is not an attack on any individual Catholic on DU, unless the pope is on DU, in which case it certainly is.

[cbayer]

4. Still, his inclusion of non-believers is pretty unprecedented.

[Demo_Chris]

7. Very much so

[HERVEPA]

17. True. Been nice if he could have used the word atheist though.

I did try to indicate I hope that I liked the general tenor of his statement.

[cbayer]

29. There are people who are non-believers that don't call themselves atheists.

This is somewhat more inclusive, I think.

Also, I wonder if there is a translation issue.

[reformist2]

57. It's like he's been lurking here on DU this week! :)

[cbayer]

59. Lol. I think he may be more receptive to DU than DU is to him.

[onehandle]

6. Yeah, that's just crazy talk. Stalin never existed. He was made up by the librul media. nt

[HERVEPA]

18. What the helll is it with your use of "librul". Seems to be a continuing theme.

And in what unierse does one example prove something?

[jeff47]

37. So those "Crusades" never happened then? Wasn't there some sort of inquisition somewhere?

Organized religion has slaughtered many more than communist dictators. Mostly by getting a very long head start.

[LanternWaste]

50. My thesis was on that. You may want to research and crunch some numbers.

My thesis was on that. You may want to research and crunch some numbers on the death toll of religion vs. A or religion vs. B, or C, etc.

I imagine you'd be rather surprised.

[jeff47]

56. You'll note I did not specify a religion.

Just organized religion.

So it's religion A + B + C + D + E + F + ...... vs Communist Dictator A + B + C + .....

[Scootaloo]

55. You want to play this game? And on the side of the Catholic Church no less?

No, you don't. Just trust me on this, you'll become this afternoon's lawn mulch. especially after that "librul" crap there. Just take a deep breath, step back, and spend the day with some lolcats.

[Wait Wut]

8. I'm willing to let that one slide...

...because the rest of the statement is far more important. I could go through great speeches in history and probably find a cringe-worthy statement in damn near every single one. It doesn't tarnish the overall message.

[Warren DeMontague]

54. Right. Particularly on the part of the believers, killing the heretics.

[onehandle]

3. That's actually inspired by one of the many, many liberal beliefs from the Catholic Catechism. nt

[MineralMan]

5. And I ask the Pope to ally with me in support

of marriage equality and a woman's right to control her reproductive life. I belong to no church, so I can only speak for myself on this matter, but I call on the Pope to become an ally in this.

How about it, Your Holiness? Whaddya say?

[Demo_Chris]

9. Hey now, let's not get all CRAZY here.

[MineralMan]

10. No. He calls for justice. I urge him to ally with me

to find justice for LGBT folks and women. My moral foundation on those is precisely equal to his on the other issues.

[Demo_Chris]

12. I suspect your moral foundation is greater than his

[Wait Wut]

13. Pretty sure that ain't happenin'.

Probably because he's Catholic. And, the Pope.

I do think this:
"...unite to defend justice, peace and the environment and not allow the value of a person to be reduced to "what he produces and what he consumes"."
...is acceptable to all religions and non-religions. Not sure why we can't get together on this, at least.

It's a damned good statement and I'm not ashamed to say so.

[MineralMan]

21. Justice must include equality for everyone.

Without that, there is no justice.

[Bluenorthwest]

24. An injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. MLK

So these words about justice which attempt to define discrimination as just and bigotry as acceptable in a just society are not really meaningful. The Pope campaigned on the side of discrimination and injustice, and continues to. There is not justice for any without justice for all.

[BeyondGeography]

44. Well, you tried

The Pope will remain a species of dung for certain people until he says everything they want him to say.

[MNBrewer]

52. Maybe just until he stops oppressing me.

He's welcome to stop being an anti-homosexual bigot any time now.

[haikugal]

27. LOL....love it!

He could join us in our efforts to secure equality and choice in peoples lives..how about some 'liberation theology'? Yeah...

[Apophis]

53. You're slamming Catholicism!

Can't have that!



I agree with you, btw.

[progressoid]

58. Haaaahahaha. You're funny.

[zappaman]

11. I urge justice for all the boys who have been raped

while the heads of the church covered it up and just moved the priests somewhere else so they could continue boy raping.
How about that for seeking justice?

[Demo_Chris]

14. The raped children, the tortured children, the enslaved women, etc...

I have morals, they have monsters.

[MineralMan]

20. Yes. That justice, too, is overdue.

Sorry, Your Holiness. You go first with that and my requests. Then we'll see.

[winter is coming]

42. It's not just boys. n/t

[MellowDem]

15. Wonder why he can't say "atheist"...

is it a dirty word? Will it corrupt the minds of the faithful to say it? Is it like saying Voldemort?

[Wait Wut]

23. Not all people who don't belong to a religion are Atheists.

Some are Buddhists, Agnostics, non-affiliated Christians, etc.

[MellowDem]

26. I know, which is why I'm wondering...

if he was even talking about atheists as potential allies at all.

[Bluenorthwest]

16. If only he really meant it. Fact is he is a great enemy of justice and opposes equality among people

He says my family is an attack on God. I find the promotion of such a man to be out of place among those who claim to support equality.

[HERVEPA]

19. Very true.

[Comrade Grumpy]

32. The Church is a mixed bag.

Some very good social justice and anti-capitalist teachings much in the spirit of Christ.

And some very bad teachings rooted in outdated morality.

[Arugula Latte]

40. Anti-capitalist, maybe, but the the Vatican itself has scooped up as much gold & riches as possible

over the years and kept them for itself.

[LadyHawkAZ]

22. I thought we already were doing that

I would like to welcome the new Pope to join in.

[Taverner]

25. Yeah, how about some justice! I know these people who were molested as kids...

And the perpetrator was a Priest ... so the Church MAY know something about it...

[liberal_at_heart]

28. I think it is great that he is reaching out.

it is this kind of reaching out and working with people who are different that will one day change Vatican policy. And maybe the new Pope can change a few minds of his own about the treatment of the poor and the disabled.

[cbayer]

31. Agree. I think there is a possibility for some real change here.

I remain guardedly optimistic.

[Posteritatis]

61. Yep. Depressing that so many are actually offended by it. (nt)

[sinkingfeeling]

30. Thank you, Pope Francis. I agree to defending justice, peace, and

the environment. I will human dignity. I ask that you reconsider your stance on women, gays, and birth control.

[RedCappedBandit]

33. Ally for justice? You can join us, pope, whenever you're ready.

[Arugula Latte]

41. As long as you're not a woman or gay, of course!

[NYC Liberal]

34. It's too bad he is so selective about who deserves dignity and justice.

[MineralMan]

35. +100. Too bad he excludes women, children, and LGBT people.

They apparently deserve no justice. I'll have none of this agreement, until the Pope promises to fight for equal justice for everyone.

[NYC Liberal]

36. I'm not saying he is wrong in all areas. But he is inconsistent, and on top of that...

there are many people who support the same goals for justice and DO include everyone.

If a US politician went around saying people deserve justice and advocated for the poor, but also said that homosexuality is a "disorder" and same-sex marriage is a ploy by Satan to deceive people, what would we here at DU think of them?

[Hekate]

38. Why that evil little man, calling the rest of humanity "precious allies"

That won't cut the mustard here at DU, let me tell you! DU don't need no stinkin' allies in the war against injustice!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>whew!<

He reached out to those who seek truth, goodness and beauty without belonging to any religion. "They are our precious allies in the commitment to defend human dignity, build a more peaceful coexistence among people and protect nature with care," he said.

There is definitely a new Pope in town. Francis, so far, is giving me a lot of hope for the future. Can we have another Vatican Council II, please? It might bring the Church into this very century.

[Skidmore]

39. Alliances would mean something when the Catholic Church and those on the Protestant fringe desist

from seeking to encode their theology in the laws of secular states.

[Ikonoklast]

43. That's just crazy talk!

How then will they use the force of law to impose their version of morality on people that don't believe their way?

[Skidmore]

45. Seriously?

Take a look at some of the laws concerning women's reproductive rights right now and those they are trying to push. Reconsider your question.

[Ikonoklast]

47. Sorry. I should have used this....

"Now let me tell you, Senator, why those evil temptress Daughters of Eve all need to be punished!"

[markpkessinger]

46. Does that include justice for LGBT persons around the world?

Didn't think so.

[markpkessinger]

48. I wonder if that means . . .

. . . he'll instruct the Archdiocese of Milwaukee to transfer those $55 million in assets that Archbishop Dolan (now Cardinal Archbishop Dolan of New York) transferred to a cemetery trust in order to shield them from lawsuits (at the same time he was feigning compassion for survivors of priestly sex abuse)? No? Didn't think so.

[Rex]

49. Ya all those heretics that ended up getting roasted at the stake

when they attempted to eliminate God...'much violence' is an understatement. Probably not a good idea to talk about history. Still, he wants everyone to defend justice, peace and the environment - I can get behind that part of his message.

[MNBrewer]

51. I somehow think his concept of "justice" and mine differ with respect to GLBT equality.

[Buns_of_Fire]

60. He's only been Pope for a week or so. I'm willing to give him a few more days to reform

the Catholic Church and all of western theology. Well, okay, since he's assumed the name Francis (after Francis of Assisi, one of my heroes), I'm willing to give him until the end of the month.