There is only pro choice or anti choice

[Sheepshank]

I know where I stand.

Libertarians and RW proponents of small government are hypocrites.

After a heated discussion with a fundie...it's all so very clear.

[Egalitarian Thug]

1. There is only Authoritarian or Egalitarian.

Every social issue comes down to that.

[patrice]

2. Agreed. AND there are people who may be having a difficult time articulating that CHOICE means

OPTIONS and options means not just abortion.

If there is NO way to deal with a problem pregnancy other than abortion, if all other alternatives are not as facilitated as abortion is, then there is no authentic CHOICE, only circumstantial compulsion to abort being overtly or covertly forced upon people who ARE NOT FREE.

Choice means someone is free to do their own decision concerning more than one course of action. If all courses of action are not equally possible, then there is no choice, only one form or another of compulsion.

And one of the most common forms of compulsion is economic. That fact is what makes the point I am making about Choice here so salient. The economic compulsions that PREVENT CHOICE and facilitate abortion are due to things such as Unequal economic rights for women. Pay parity is an element of CHOICE when it comes to dealing with a problem pregnancy. Another aspect of Choice is the availability of appropriately priced authentic Health Care, not only for the woman, pregnant or otherwise, but also for children, existing or potential. CHOICE is also comprised of appropriate, life-long, wholistic education, not only for mothers, but also for the children whom they must decide whether or not to bear.

Think of these things in terms of how economics, health care, education, and even the environnment affect whether a woman actually CHOOSES to abort or not, or whether, instead, she is compelled by circumstances related to these factors that enslave her, prevennt an authentic choice, and result in strong bias in favor of abortion.

[Sheepshank]

3. For those who tout the necessity of Constitutional Freedoms.....

You'd think the issue of 'choice' would be a no brainer.

For those that love to use "slippery Slope" arguments to avoid any legislation, your'd think choice would be a no brainer.

Is there a message the RW and Libertarians have that I could ever take seriously?

[patrice]

5. Hey, I REALLY do give them every break I can. I have to. BUT I've never discovered such a message

in anything they have said. Nothing they say about principles and values even works on its own terms.

I am bound by the truth as much as I can and that's the truth.

They truly are cognitive dinosaurs. Their time is over.

[RainDog]

4. anyone who is not pro-choice

is pro creating more dangerous abortions.

it all comes down to hating females, no matter what sort of political or religious garb you dress it up as, because abortions will remain statistically the same, whether legal or not.

the difference is if women die from lack of health care services.

[dsc]

6. actually there are many libertarians who are pro choice

not admittedly among their political leaders but among their rank and file libertarians the pro choice position is popular.

[nomorenomore08]

7. Most everyone really is one or the other, on a basic level.

Some may claim to be ambivalent, but a few quick questions will more or less show you where they really stand.

[talkingmime]

8. Wrong. There's pro-life with the option of choice.

That's pretty much what Planned Parenthood does. They advocate allowing the fetus to become a child but will provide services for those who decide otherwise. It isn't a black/white issue.

[Sheepshank]

9. Then the option is choice

It IS black or white.

I never said the decision was easy or made without great consideration or input from many angles...hence the word choice. In the end there is a choice...and that choice may very well be life.

There is only Pro Choice or No Choice. Pro Lifers want to take away any possibility of choice.