Surrounded by 8 pit pulls today, I barely escaped with my life

[BainsBane]

It looked a lot like this




Just another day at the dog park, with bouncing playing dogs all having fun. About eight happened to be pit bulls. One little grey pup tried to act tough and run up barking at me when I entered. Since I know dog body language, I wasn't afraid. Of course, he did lick my coffee cup, little varmint. He looked a lot like this, but bigger.




They are just dogs, not lethal weapons. Every time we go to the park we see bouncing, friendly pit bulls. My boxer mix sees no difference between them and any other dog in the park. She judges based on butt smell and who is the most fun, not breed. We could all take a lesson from her.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. Amen to that!

[Cleita]

2. My neighbor across the road has a pit bull rescue.

She's the sweetest dog, even though she was abused before her new guardian adopted her.

[ZombieHorde]

3. Truly terrifying.

That is sarcasm, in case anyone was wondering.

[bluedigger]

4. My dog actually is breed conscious.

She has a problem with Standard Poodles.

[Vanje]

8. Ha!

I used to have a standard poodle ( Watson lived a very long time. Then he died. I still miss him!)

Watson was nicely socialized. A steady dude. Benevolent friend to puppies, dogs and persons of every stripe.
Nevertheless, dogs seemed to find his appearance alarming at first meeting.




Thanks for posting. Always good to share memories of Watson.

[bluedigger]

9. It's not me, it's her.

She got bum rushed by a pair of big black ones as she was entering the dog park as a pup. Left a bad impression on her apparently.

It's nice you had a good remembrance of Watson!

[OnyxCollie]

33. The arch enemy of one of my bitches

is a Weimaraner.

(Doesn't matter which one; any will do.)

Like yours, she had a bad experience as a pup.

I think dogs are aware of which breed they are. My Belgians can spot other Belgians at dog shows, even at a distance (although there was once a case of mistaken identity with a flat-coated Retriever.)

[bluedigger]

36. Mine doesn't really cotton to Border Collies or Aussies, either.

She's a Catahoula, and I think she has disdain for their herding style.

[OnyxCollie]

42. That's a cool dog.

I had never heard of that breed before; I had to look it up.

I was surprised to find out it's in the same group (herding) as my dogs.

I've never seen any at shows. Is it a rare breed?

[bluedigger]

44. You won't see them at shows.

The AKC doesn't recognize them because they are so variable in appearance and are bred more for their behavioral characteristics. (I might be wrong about this as Wiki says they are AKC recognized. News to me.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catahoula_Cur

You can search for them on petfinders.com (where I found Cleo) and see the wide variety in appearance. MY girl is a Blue Leopard aka blue merle in other breeds.



She's a fine dog, who is harassing me to play fetch as I post this.

[OnyxCollie]

62. Dogs have little patience for discussion on political message boards.

One will paw me while the other three try to make me feel guilty.

[justiceischeap]

173. I actually had an akita who couldn't stand german shepards

didn't matter if they weren't paying attention to him, he'd get all grumbly.

[baldguy]

5. On Sunday my vicious beast Pit Bull tried to kill & eat Springs first spider crawling on the floor.

I was in the kitchen, when I heard a big THUD! Then I heard it again - THUD! Then she started barking. I thought "What the fuck is she doing?" and went into the living room.

There she was, down on her elbows with her butt up in the air - in a barking fit over a spider.

[bluedigger]

10. Any dog that hates spiders is A-OK with me.

Tell him to stop looking at me like I'm a spider.

[baldguy]

28. She just couldn't stand to have that THING crawling on HER floor.

And just got SOOOOO frustrated that it was too small for her to get.

[robbob]

35. My boxer Jake stomps on ants in the house

It takes him quite a while to kill the poor things. But he has fun doing it, I guess.

[BainsBane]

97. her ears are super cute

I love dog ears.

[greytdemocrat]

6. I love dogs

And always have a few.

We have 2 greyhounds currently.

I do not trust Pit Bulls, never had and never will.

[baldguy]

40. Then you don't love dogs.

[IrishAyes]

61. Maybe, just maybe

... Gray doesn't love getting bitten. Your comment is arrogant to the point of extreme rudeness. Smacks of self righteousness, it does.

[gcomeau]

127. Pit bull =/= getting bitten.

What's better, arrogant or ignorant?

[secondvariety]

161. And they don't trust you.

[tavalon]

186. And I've never met a Pit Bull who wasn't just the sweetest

We all have our anecdotal experiences. I was chased down and bitten by a St. Bernard. I am very cautious around St. Bernards, though I've met many since who didn't feel the need to chase me down and bite me.

Did you have a similar experience with a Pit Bull?

[RebelOne]

7. I have had 2 pit bulls and 2 Rottweilers.

And they were all the sweetest dogs you would ever meet. Now I have a Chihuahua that thinks she is a pit bull and is a mean little critter. I have to lock her in another room whenever anyone comes to my house because she will try to eat them.

[BainsBane]

13. Chihuahuas are not my favorite

You rarely see a calm one.

[IrishAyes]

63. Indicating

a strong possibility that owners and their dogs often resemble each other.

Fortunately today's well bred Chihuahuas tend to have more settled temperaments than their past kin.

[Helen Reddy]

131. They do tend to be tightly strung.

Well....except for mine. She is an all white long-haired who is "The Queen of Queludes." She's very sedate.

[BainsBane]

135. You hear of some that way

And yours obviously has a great owner!

[Brigid]

16. Not long ago . . .

Somebody here on DU said that one day some Mexicans decided to cross a rat with a pirhana and sell them to gringos. They came up with the Chihuahua.

[BainsBane]

18. lol

I shouldn't laugh, but that's pretty funny.

[Brigid]

24. Chihuahuas can be nasty little things.

[PDJane]

77. The only time an animal has ever bitten me...........

and that includes wolves, skunks, squirrels, horses, all domestic things including goats, and everything in my 'hood except bears...it was a chihuahua, and the damn thing tried to rip my nose off when I picked up my purse.

I still have a scar.

[JEFF9K]

11. better safe than sorry

It's better to be safe than sorry. Who knows how many last words were: "A pit bull started after me ..."

[shenmue]

12. Smiles :)

Thank you.

[BainsBane]

14. I hate the anti-pit bull stuff

I know they are dogs and not human, but it strikes me as a form of bigotry induced by media hysteria.

[Hoyt]

15. That's a cute pup. Built like my cat.

[BainsBane]

17. there were two brothers

One was wearing a little grey coat. The teenage boy with them told me the other pup had outgrown his coat. They were cute little guys. I get a kick out of dogs that try to act tough when you can tell they aren't.

[Hoyt]

19. Had a Chihuahua when little that routinely would scare big dogs, even German Shepherds.

Unfortunately, those pit bulls will get powerful.

[BainsBane]

20. if they are mean

they are dangerous, to be sure. But that's the responsibility of the owner.

[ErikJ]

22. And Forget about buying a house with a Pit bull.

Home owners insurancve doesnt want another multi-million dollar law suit on its hands.

[ErikJ]

21. Best and most interesting dogs are mixes

With all the breed specific gentic diseases out there it only makes sense to get a mix to "neutralize" the genetic diseases, both mental and physical, that aflicts pure-breeds. Plus youll meet a lot more people with a mix who are always currious to know what it is. When you have a lab or a pit nobody will ask you about it.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

151. we just got a mix and are dna testing her for curiousity

[FreeBC]

23. I disagree

I hate pit bulls and the vast majority of the people who choose to own them who, in general, are trash.

Because let's face it, when people choose to own a dog and decide, out of all the breeds to choose from, they are going to go with the one that may just decide to kill a child or another dog somewhere along the way, that makes them horrible people.

I think the breed should be eradicated.

That's great that you know dog body language and all. Unfortunately I didn't have that advantage when I was mauled as a child. I guess that was my fault as an 8 year old?

[BainsBane]

26. it certainly wasn't your fault for being mauled

But the rest of the nonsense in your post is. "People who choose them are trash"?

[FreeBC]

32. yes

The further you go down on the social/economic ladder in the US, the more pit bulls you are going to see. The crappier the neighborhood, the more pitbulls you are going to see.

Pitbulls are the animal equivalent of guns and SUVs. They are the doggie equivalent of flashy rims. Their owners are mostly insecure assholes who are making up for inadequacies in other areas. They are anti-social people who enjoy the feeling they get from owning an animal that is menacing to many of the other people around them.

What's your definition of trash?

[cpwm17]

48. I'm inclined to agree with you

It is no coincidence that the only dog that I have ever had a bad experience with was a pit bull. It followed me and repeatedly bit me while I was out for a walk. In my recent trip to Arizona, twice I saw loose pit bulls run by me while I was walking in the sticks. It's a bad feeling.

How many stories of people getting mauled by pit bulls do we need to hear before we realize that they are dangerous?

Pit bulls: the worst dog for the worst owners.

[flvegan]

50. Why do you think that?

Personal experience only, maybe without merit? Or do you have something to really say that has merit? I look forward to something more than ignorance on the matter.

[cpwm17]

59. List of fatal dog attacks in the United States:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States#Fatalities_reported_in_2013

Fatalities reported in 2013

January 8, Pit bull, Betty Ann Chapman Todd, 65 years
Emergency Medical Technicians found the victim with dog bites to neck, head, and face, and could not revive her. According to the owners, the victim had visited the house on several occasions and the dog had never shown aggressiveness towards her.

January 19, Pit bull, Christian Gormanous, 4 years
Climbed over a fence and got too close to the neighbor's tethered dog.

February 8, Pit bull, Elsie Grace, 91 years
Killed in her motel room by her own two dogs.

February 16, Pit bull, Isaiah Aguilar, 2 years
Killed in a neighbor's yard by a dog tied up in the yard.

March 2, Pit bull, Ryan Maxwell, 7 years
Killed in the back yard of a home he was visiting.

March 6, Pit bull, Daxton Borchardt, 14 Months
Killed by his babysitter's two dogs at the babysitter's residence. The babysitter was also injured but survived.

Every fatal dog attack so far this year have been by pit bulls. These are just the fatal attacks.

[flvegan]

80. "The following table summarizes the number of people reported by news sources..."

You backing that? You backing Foxnews on this?

[cpwm17]

85. What does Foxnews have to do with anything?

Generally, fatal dog attacks get reported in the news. Pit Bulls are often the culprits.

Are you claiming there is some kind of conspiracy against Pit Bulls?

[flvegan]

86. So then, you don't really know where that data comes from do you? Be honest.

[cpwm17]

94. I got these from the links in the references for the 2013 dog attacks:

http://www.wsmv.com/story/20542374/deputies-woman-dies-after-dog-bite

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Dog-fatally-mauls-4-year-old-near-Conroe-4209574.php

http://www.pe.com/local-news/riverside-county/hemet/hemet-headlines-index/20130211-hemet-police-say-noted-artist-likely-killed-by-pit-bulls.ece

http://www.galesburg.com/news/x171155919/Nielson-Elementary-school-staff-grieves-boy-s-death

http://www.ksat.com/news/Toddler-dies-after-pit-bull-attack-south-of-San-Antonio/-/478452/18587666/-/10srd4wz/-/index.html

http://host.madison.com/news/local/crime_and_courts/toddler-victim-identified-in-fatal-dog-attack-in-walworth-county/article_64b6aaf8-8811-11e2-8efd-001a4bcf887a.html

All are legitimate stories. The users of Wikipedia add the reports as they see them in the news.

[OwnedByCats]

100. Interesting

that you lived to tell about the pit bulls, seeing as how they are so dangerous. How did you ever escape with your life whenever you crossed paths with one? You must have been one of the lucky ones, huh?

What a bunch of crap.

I work with dogs and the only two that tried to bite me were a Chihuahua and a Border Collie. I have never been so much as growled at by a pit bull and I've worked with 80 or more.

So I should just assume only Chihuahuas and Border Collies bite people? Nope, sorry - not gonna be one of those ignorant people to discriminate against an entire breed.

And btw, there are a lot of DU members who have pit bulls. Broad brushing them and their dogs is extremely unfair. I know people with pit bulls, good people - and yet their dogs are great. The pit bulls I have worked with, their owners are just as lovely as their dogs. These are every day normal people who treat their dogs well. Do you think there might be any correlation there between my good experiences with pit bulls and their owners being responsible, loving dog owners? Or is that just a coincidence?

Not everybody who owns a pit bull is a scum bag. Yes, scum bags tend to choose dogs they can mold to be the way they want. However, get rid of the pit bull and the next breeds to be abused by these assholes will be Dobermans, Rottweilers, German Shephards and any other dog that can be trained to be vicious. Then you'll hear about those breeds of dogs mauling and killing people. If you don't believe that, look at a country where pit bulls are banned then have a look to see what breeds are responsible for the most biting and killing incidents. It still happens, just other breeds take the place of the pit bull.

It's the owner, not the dog. I'd be perfectly content to see owners with vicious dogs get harsh penalties - and I mean a good amount of jail time, not a little slap on the hand. Some people shouldn't own a dog. Most roads to a vicious pit bull, or ANY breed of dog, lead straight back to the owner. Period.

[smokey nj]

108. I work with dogs as well and have had a similar experience. The pit bulls and pit mixes I've worked

with have all been lovely.

[OwnedByCats]

110. Well it does

seem to be the case that people who work with dogs, and have dealt with many different pit bulls, either alone or in conjunction with other breeds, have similar experiences. I personally have not run into someone who works with them say "those pit bulls are monsters!". In my dog loving circles, the pit bull is one of the favorite breeds to work with.

Thank you for the comment! Very much appreciated!

[flvegan]

49. I rescue them. Tell me again that I'm an insecure asshole.

I'm making up for inadequacies in other areas. Do it.

That I'm anti social. That I'm trash.

Please do. I fucking dare you.

[IrishAyes]

75. What?

Does someone else's overreaction entitle you to sound like a bully? Are you schoolboys or something? Shoving each other on the playground?

[flvegan]

82. Someone else's overreaction entitles me to nothing except correcting them.

If I sound like a bully, it's well founded because idiots don't know better.

If I'm seen as a bully, that's okay. It's self-correction for idiots that don't know better based on breed.

Sorry if that stung.

[FreeBC]

96. Pit Bulls, because the nanny state won't let us own Hyenas.

thanks for helping me prove my point.

[OwnedByCats]

114. Hold up

YOU came into this thread calling pit bull owners "in general" TRASH. Flvegan takes exception to your most ignorant and highly offensive comment and you think that "proves" your point? Did you honestly think no one would take offense? You come in here talking shit and then when someone calls you out on it you try to use that against the person to prove your point.

Pathetic

[IrishAyes]

123. It didn't sting, dear

It stank.

Not the fact that you corrected him; rather the like manner in which you reacted. Do you roll in the mud with everyone who disagrees with you? Am I supposed to be impressed with that?

Sure, sure.... I know you don't care what anyone thinks of your behavior. That's why you hit fever pitch so easily.

In martial arts, if a person really wants an unregulated personal and physical fight , the first thing they do is rile up their opponent to throw him off his game. When you lose your temper, you lose every which way possible, even if you do beat the crap out of someone who never stood a real chance against you.

[OwnedByCats]

101. I suppose

If someone on this board, who does not know you in RL, made a presumptious broad brush bullshit statement that applied to you, you'd just let that go huh?

It's not being a bully, it's called sticking up for yourself. You've got people talking about how owners of pit bulls are trash - so basically every pit bull owner, broad brushed to the hilt, are supposed to just take it? It was unwarranted and it's WRONG to say such an ignorant and bigoted statement.

flvegan has more experience with pit bulls than these people have in one single cell in their body and it will probably always be that way because they choose to buy into this "hysteria" and forever remain ignorant.
I just love it when someone with little to no experience with something thinks they know more than the one who has a shit load of experience.

Kind of reminds me of trying to convince my republican family that single payer would be a Godsend and they choose to believe what their media says about it - even though I lived in a country for 10 years that had single payer and would know from first hand experience what it's really like. For some reason the media, who lies to everyone about practically everything, has more authority on this subject than I do.

Incredible.

[IrishAyes]

122. What I find incredible

is how some people can't understand the difference between sticking up for yourself and overreacting. Lowbrow language and dares are not the mark of self confidence or self control. Unless a person was raised in a barn, there comes a time to act like an adult. I'm sticking up for myself right now against you and no doubt others, but I don't need to beat my chest and roar either. Or throw out dares reeking with the broad hint of potential violence - as bullies do.

Lowlife is as lowlife does.

If you or anyone else wants to live a supposedly adult life flaring up everytime someone yanks your chain, go right ahead and be my guest. But don't expect my sympathy or respect in return. You're not protecting your rights when you automatically get back in somebody's face; you've let someone turn you into a puppet on a string. Maybe that's considered a necessity on the mean streets. It's foolish and premature in a more civilized setting, the kind of scene some people might try to fake but can't. No mature, confident, self-respecting individual reacts street style to every challenge. My dad used to say only a jackass answers every donkey that brays.

[OwnedByCats]

144. So what you're saying is

that flvegan is a lowlife just because they found a person's broad brush comments to be offensive and acted in kind? Sorry, I'm not playing that game. I like to get to know a person in RL before judging whether they are a lowlife. But I guess I should not be shocked, after all the bigger picture about this is how a person judges a whole group, people "hate pit bulls and their owners are generally trash" even though they have no clue what they're talking about. Judgement based on stereotyping and not by individual case is beyond ignorance, lazy in fact. Let's just believe what we're spoon fed like sheep. It's attitudes like these that left many families in Denver heartbroken because their dogs were taken from them and put down just because they were a pit bull or pit bull "type", not because their dogs ever caused a problem, just because Denver decided on a complete BAN. That makes me incredibly angry. I don't agree with exterminating a whole breed for the actions of a few, a tiny percentage in fact.

Maybe flvegan has dealt with a lot of comments like that in the past. That's the impression I got from the comments. Sounds to me like it's all been heard before by this poster, here and perhaps in RL too. I'm an animal lover, not just a dog person, not just a cat person, but all animals. I don't buy into dog and cat breeds being a carbon copy of one another. They all have their distinct personality and how you raise and train them make for what kind of dog you'll get. There are exceptions of course, but for the most part, you get what you give. Why do you think Cesar Milan says "I rehabilitate dogs, I train people"? Owning a dog is a huge responsibility that not everyone is cut out for, or some just need a little guidance to get it right. Sometimes incredibly small changes make a big difference in our pets.

I agree it would be better to have an adult discussion on any topic, but unfortunately some generalized comments cause emotions to run high, harsh use of language (which I'm occasionally guilty of too), provokes what seems like overreacting defensiveness. We don't always find the right ways to express those things sometimes. I don't even own a pit bull myself and find these comments offensive, but I do know many pit bull owners and they are not trash, nor lowlifes. Will you find scum bags owning a pit bull? Of course. While pit bulls are pretty smart and tend to do how they have been trained, you can train any medium to large sized dogs to do horrific damage to a person. To me, those who abuse dogs and use them for fighting or as a weapon, those people are lowlifes, not people like flvegan.

[IrishAyes]

182. Please

Do not put words in my mouth. All I was trying to do, really, was to point out that flying off the handle does no good, impresses no one, and it nullifies an argument to behave in like manner with the lowest common denominator. You choose how to behave and at which level. It depends on whether you really want to influence another's thinking or just shoot your mouth off.

Now I'm done explaining Life 101 to incoming freshmen.

Twist that any way you like.

As an afterthought, you can probably relax and not expect me to show up in the next pitt-themed thread. I've already seen enough and wouldn't hold out much hope of progress. This has been an interesting but still fairly wasteful use of my time. Any more and it would amount to howling at the moon.

[OwnedByCats]

188. No need to lecture me on life

I wasn't born yesterday, although I'm now at the age where I really wish I had been.


Do you know how many times I've tried (and I know I'm not alone on this one) being reasonable about this, only to be run roughshod over by comments like the one hurled at pit bull owners earlier in this thread. Instead of talking about it like rational adults, people need to draw conclusions on people they don't even know such as they are trash, anti-social and must be "compensating" for something. Come on. The worst I've ever said to someone who disagrees with me is I might call them ignorant (rather than stupid)and say that their "comments" were bigoted (not that they are bigots themselves). I don't make judgements on their character. I've never threatened anyone with violence - might be a bit complicated, since I don't have any clue of their real name and location, and really am not a violent person. I've never been punched or punched someone else in the face. In case you haven't noticed, you can participate in these threads but no matter what, those anti pit bull individuals won't even go and volunteer at a pit bull rescue, or get to know any pit bulls. They won't even do the indepedent research because any source that does not railroad the dogs into being evil killers is not to be trusted. They just read the same old regurgitated misinformation and think they are an authority. They choose to be spoon fed. They hear "pit bull" and the extenuating circumstances mean absolutely nothing. Some Americans get taken in by the media telling them what to be afraid of. Most of these people don't know anywhere near as much as they should about this breed of dog who is largely misunderstood.

In real life, I don't get that kind of treatment. I have no problem discussing this with people who know me and at least can see where I'm coming from since I happen to work with dogs and have met many many lovely pit bulls in my work.

However on a message board, people get brave and cocky and don't care what they say because they're sitting behind a computer screen. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that in real life, they deal with conflict in a much more diplomatic way.

Now I know you were trying to make a point, that people should handle these things differently. I agree with you. I just felt like you wanted to correct one person's behavior, but the instigator is ok to say what they want. I think you just meant that it's preferable to be the bigger person and handle it with more grace when trying to promote your passion, or have I got that wrong?

[IrishAyes]

203. Eating my own words now

... at least nibbling a bit! No, you don't have that wrong; that was indeed my intent - with the caveat that my concentration on the other responder was not in any way a glossing over or ignoring of the original instigator. My attention had to be directed first at the person with the greater power of defusing the situation - the one who rashly let the other yank his chain. If he had kept his cool, I would've left him alone. Other than that, you guys seemed to have the other one put in his place pretty well w/o my piling on with you.

The words I'm eating are my previous declaration that I was done with this thread, though I do intend to avoid future involvement in the subject. Occasionally I just need reminding of potential dead ends.

My plea is still to one and all to keep your head and your heart open enough to see where the other side might have a valid point even if it takes serious digging to find. Somewhere a workable and just solution has to be found, and the louder we yell at one another, the less we're likely to succeed.

Well, this time I'm glad I swung by again or I'd have missed your latest response. Then I wouldn't have had the impulse to admit something that's probably not news anywhere. The reason I know how counter-productive and futile temper fits are is because, well... I might be the world's most expert practitioner. Yes indeed! Long experience in the trenches. Her Irishness has been known to leap into the mudhole with glee and emerge not really victorious but instead just as muddy as her opponent(s). Trust me, it ain't pretty.

[OwnedByCats]

209. I completely understand

Once I was thinking about your response and your other responses in this thread, I began to see your intent, which wasn't bad as I had originally thought. I do wish people were more thoughtful, even me sometimes. I understand some people are just afraid, after all we have enough fear mongering in the media and I can see how that would influence people. I being a huge animal lover, I learned for myself what I always believed anyway, which is most problem dogs either have a bad history with a former owner, or their present owner steered them wrong. I can not blame a dog for being, first an animal that doesn't know any better, and second being dealt a horrible disservice by their owner. But what one needs to realize is there are millions of other owners that do right by their dogs, no matter the breed, and you find pit bulls and other "bully" breeds can be wonderful dogs given a good pack leader. I just hate generalizations and went on the defensive which I did not mean to do to you. I do apologize to you for that.

People could learn a lot from you my dear!

[hfojvt]

93. you rescue them from whom?

their original insecure a$$hole owners who are anti-social trash? I mean, who do these dogs need rescuing from?

I dislike the term trash

but there does seem to me a certain amount of truth in that pitbulls are used as home-defense for poor people in rough neighborhoods.

If you live in a poor neighborhood with lots of crime, how are you gonna protect your home and valuables? With an alarm system? Hell to the no, That would just bring the cops who would discover your drugs and otherwise cannot be trusted to care much about the poor anyway. So you need a dog, But not just any dog, You need a dog that is big enough and tough enough to be intimidating. And you need to train him to be tough and aggressive. Because he is not a pet, or not just a pet. He's a home defense weapon.

I don't really begrudge people a desire to keep themselves and their belongings safe, but unfortunately it just seems to add another layer of violence to such neighborhoods.

[FreeBC]

99. Seriously! There aren't other breeds going un-rescued?

Rescue a mix, or a beagle, or a lab.

Adopting a unwanted pet is wonderful. But there are plenty to choose from. What kind of person chooses the one that may end up maiming or murdering a toddler? What kind of person says, "they all look so adorable, but I'm going to take one there! Yeah, the one that may kill my neighbor's niece some day."

[OwnedByCats]

102. Wow

The ignorance is thick here today.

[zonkers]

115. A waste of time talking sense to some folks. Don't waste the keystrokes.

[easttexaslefty]

162. We have 4 other rescues. ( dogs )None pits.

Our pit was a street dog. My husband rescued him because he was scared, mangy, hungry and homeless.
Seriously, what is your problem?

[Sheldon Cooper]

112. lol

[BainsBane]

98. my definition of trash

Is what I haul out to the alley every week to be picked up by the local sanitation workers. People do not fall in that category, and I certainly don't rank human beings according to race and class.

[whathehell]

107. "What's your definition of trash"? -- The stuff in my waste basket -- not poor people

looked down upon by smug elitists, curling their lips in contempt

at the sight of their "inferior" taste in clothes, cars and dogs.

[BainsBane]

142. +1

[noiretextatique]

136. what a ridiculous post

full of idiotic stereotypes and generalizations.

[secondvariety]

165. Just call me trash, then.

I've had pits all my life, my kids and grand kids have grown up around them. No offense, but you don't know shit about pits or the people who love them. My ex-wife was mauled by a chow-does that mean everyone who owns one is some Asian warlord?

[Texasgal]

29. Really?

I am so sorry that you had an issue with a pit.

But honestly and lets be honest.. not ALL owners of pitt bulls are trash, that is just a bullshit statement. I rescued a pretty baby that the owner had TETHERED to a tree for years! She was aggressive until we took her in and loved her. She has been successfully adopted.

Not all pitt bulls are crappy and not all owners are either.

[FreeBC]

34. and not all gun owners are trash either

just a much higher percentage...

[Texasgal]

41. Okay...so?

what does this have to do with guns?

Are we not talking about Pitts?

[secondvariety]

176. I'm feeling trashier by the minute.

I've got a pit AND some guns. I also drive a big 'ol American made car, don't own a suit, and work outside.

You must be a riot at parties.

[OwnedByCats]

210. Probably doesn't even go to parties

Too good for those lol

[baldguy]

38. I've got a scar on my knee from when our neighbors toy poodle bit me when I was 6.

It wasn't a little puncture either. The damn thing tore a huge hole in my skin & I needed ten stitches. Does that mean all the toy poodles in the world need to be eradicated?

No, of course not.

Don't blame your childhood trauma for your hatred of dogs.

[FreeBC]

43. not my point

I don't blame my childhood incident at all for my dislike of pitbulls and their owners. You seem to be the one doing that.

Pitbulls are the "assault weapons" of dogs. Their proponents will find 18 reasons for why they should not be or can not be classified as something different than other breeds. But the argument doesn't pass the smell test and their proliferation is neither good for our society nor a tribute to the quality of our people.

I realize that most pitbull owners fall into one of two categories: horrible people who like to menace those around them and animal lovers who refuse to believe anything bad about a doggie. I understand that the pit bull people frequenting this forum most likely fall into the latter category. But don't fool yourself into thinking most pit bull owners are buying them because they feel they are misunderstood. Most pit bull owners are buying them because they can kill people and they like walking around with a weapon on a leash.

[baldguy]

46. Your point seems to be to prove that you're ignorant & irrational.

Nothing you've said is even remotely true.

Pit Bulls are dogs. Nothing more; nothing less. And just like all other dogs, they're bred & trained to be members of a human family & live in human society. And they are exceptionally successful in that role.

[noiretextatique]

137. +1000

so many offensive posts in such a short period of time.

[OwnedByCats]

105. Then I guess

Pit bulls must really suck as killers then because if MOST pit bull owners get them to kill, they are falling extremely short given the number of pit bulls in the United States. It's hard to give an exact number of pit bulls so different sources estimate different figures, but I see anywhere from 1.7 million to over 3 million in estimates and then we have over 300 million people in the US. With that many "dangerous" dogs running around, you would honestly think the numbers of fatalities would be astronomically higher than the numbers we are seeing, which in the year of 2012 was in the 20's, and I'm not talking about 200, 2,000, 200,000 or 2 million. I mean a two digit figure in the 20's. I have said this a lot, but you have a slightly better chance of dying from lightening than from the jaws of a pit bull. Farm animals kill more for crying out loud.

Dog bites, well obviously that amount is of course higher but when you add up all the breeds combined and compare it to the pit bulls involved, it makes the pit bull bites pretty rare also.

The problem is not the breed. It's the irresponsible psychotic scum bags who have done this and those folks belong in prison. They need to be dealt with, along with the individual dog - not erradicate an entire breed. This is not rocket science. You prefer to buy into the hysteria the media has fed you and remain ignorant, thàt's your problem, not theirs.

[zonkers]

113. I agree with you. good post.

[gcomeau]

128. For cripes sake...

"Because let's face it, when people choose to own a dog and decide, out of all the breeds to choose from, they are going to go with the one that may just decide to kill a child or another dog somewhere along the way, that makes them horrible people. "

No. Just no.

IF they're horrible people then the dog they decide to get will be more likely to be raised in a manner that will result in them trying to eat a kid. And it doesn't matter WHAT breed they are. IF they happen to get a big strong breed then the damage will obviously end up being worse when that happens but that is true of ANY big strong breed of dog.

You're getting cause and effect backwards.

And this:

"I think the breed should be eradicated. "

Is an unthinking, fear based contemptible statement.

[Helen Reddy]

133. What a horrible thing to go through. n/t

[easttexaslefty]

159. Trash, really?

I have a rescue part pittie AND live in a mobile home.
I MUST really be a piece of trash in YOUR eyes. Nice.

[Lucky Luciano]

168. Or maybe we adopt them because they are at greatest risk of being murdered in the shelter?

I also think they are beautiful.
I love how athletic they are and I enjoy running with my dog in central park.
I love how playful they are and I play with my dog - a lot. She demands it or she gets sad and depressed with her ears back staring at me with a sad look....then I can't help it! I jump in and play with her and the payoff of seeing her so happy is such a thrill.
I love how silly they are jumping into the bed and tucking themselves into tight balls under the covers. Too cute.

[Wait Wut]

170. It could very well have been your fault.

I wasn't there to witness the event. My son was bitten by my dog (not any of my four pitties). It was his fault. It was just a warning nip, but he learned his lesson. A good friend of mine is a veterinarian. He has a scar on his face that goes from his right temple to under his chin. He was bitten by a golden retriever when he was about 7 or 8. He admits it was his own fault. Thankfully, his parents were smart enough to expose him to dogs as often as possible afterward. I was attacked by my own cat when I was 6. 42 years later, I still have the scars. That was my mother's fault for turning on the blender while I was carrying the cat. I've had 12 cats since then. I learned not to carry them around loud kitchen appliances.

Your generalization is bullshit and offensive. I'd wager I'm further from the trash heap than you could dare to dream.

[SouthernLiberal]

25. I was actually injured by a pit bull once

I don't blame him at all! He was the most adorable puppy, and from the moment we met, he was determined to be my best friend EVER! He wasn't my puppy, though, so the relationship was doomed from the start.

He just had very sharp nails and gave me a shallow cut about three inches long on one arm. It happened when he was trying to climb into my lap to show me some puppy love.

[hrmjustin]

27. I don't have a dog anymore but I love to walk by the dog park near me to see them play with one

another.

[hrmjustin]

60. She must give you a lot of joy.

[BainsBane]

65. Oh, yes.

A great deal.

[hrmjustin]

69. Glad to hear it!

I got 5 cats and it is never a dull moment with them.

[BainsBane]

70. 5 cats

Wow! My girl gets along great with cats. It took some training to convince her that kitties aren't a good group, but she now understands. The neighbor cat comes up here all the time to hang out with her.

[hrmjustin]

73. My sister's Golden retriever and sheep dogs come up to play with my cats.

[IrishAyes]

183. My chows

DID consider cats a food group, partly because people would dump unwanted animals on my horse ranch and the dogs were brilliant hunters with wide-ranging tastes. When I retired and moved to a small town, I was very concerned the first time we visited the vet because they had free-range office cats. But the dogs seemed to understand that these particular tasty tidbits belonged to someone and were therefore off limits to them. When I was urged to take the dogs off leash after all other patients had left, the dogs simply stood inches away and stared their hardest at the cats, all of whom totally ignored them! It was priceless. I'm sure that was the first time their infamous hungry stare failed them. But they knew w/o correction how to behave. They were probably thinking, "Don't ever let me catch you in my yard!"

[smirkymonkey]

104. Awww! What a beautiful, sweet little face!

She is so adorable! You must be very happy.

[BainsBane]

132. Thanks!

She's a joy, for sure.

[Thor_MN]

30. If we meet on the street, do I really need to smell your butt?

You already seem like you are fun...

[Hoyt]

37. Maybe someday dogs will wise up.

[BainsBane]

53. How do you know

it's not we humans who are missing out?

[Hoyt]

71. You may have a point. Don't have a lot of experience with that greeting/surveillance.

[BainsBane]

52. I suppose I could let it slide

if you help me dig a really big hole to roll around in.
That dog park is in Minneapolis, so you just might see me on the street sometime.

[Thor_MN]

119. OK, but let's see if we can find some fish guts or roadkill to roll in too.

[BainsBane]

134. sounds like the kind of fun

rural dogs have. Not much roadkill around here.

[Honeycombe8]

31. I hope yu don't bear the scars the rest of your life!

(sarcasm) Good post.

[Kalidurga]

39. I love dogs...

I am sure there is a such a thing as a bad dog so I probably don't love 100% of all dogs. But, in general I love dogs. I don't see how anyone can hate a breed of dog. They all have their strengths and weaknesses, but they are still dogs and and they are lovable. If I had the energy I would get a pit bull, but I have health issues so I have to stick to smaller less energetic dogs.

[The Straight Story]

45. I am surrounded by guns all the time, especially at my sister's house

Still waiting for them to go all loco due to demon possession and start a shooting my ass.

I hear that there is something about the metal used in their production coming from a cursed mine deep in the congo that makes all 50 million gun owners raving lunatics and shrinks their genitals.

Have that on good authority from from internet scientists.

[Brigid]

47. OK, you win.

I hate guns, but you win.

[IrishAyes]

56. It's a well known fact

Last edited Wed Mar 27, 2013, 01:02 AM - Edit history (1)

... that you can always trust internet scientists. I know, because I read this on the internet.

Matter of fact - true story - a year or two ago somebody called me up all hysterical because they'd read (probably in the Onion) about internet viruses being contagious to humans. Last week at Sunday School the talk was all about how that horrid black man in THEIR White House intends to send predator drones to kill Americans of Middle Eastern descent in their homes. HERE, I mean. How they reconcile that notion with their belief that he's a Muslim too I haven't yet figured out, but it probably makes sense to them. You think I'm joking, but they were serious.

Yessir, if it's on the internet I believe it.

[Warpy]

51. The only problem is that they're all jaw

and when they bite, they do serious damage.

Other than that, I was going to respond, "What did they do? Try to lick you to death?"

All the pits I've ever met have been pussycats.

[BainsBane]

57. yes, they can do damage

because of their powerful jaws, but it's up to owners to raise them right.

[lonestarnot]

54. ahwook at z puppies so cute.

[Jenoch]

58. The young sea lion attacked

by a terrior owned by Mark Kelly's daughter did not survive.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2299347/Mark-Kelly-video-Gabby-Giffords-husband-stops-daughters-pitbull-viciously-attacking-sea-lion.html

[BainsBane]

66. Dogs are animals with a prey instinct

They will kill some animals. That's part of the naturally world. The chicken I ate last week didn't survive either. The difference is that chicken never stood a chance.

[Jenoch]

138. Your chicken was raised for consumption.

If that sea were to be killed for food it should have been killed by an orca, not the family dog.

[BainsBane]

139. Nature isn't for sissies.

The little sea lion came ashore and got killed. Those are the breaks.

[Jenoch]

140. I'm a hunter and an occasional fisherman.

A domestic dog chasing down and killing a deer is nit 'nature' and neither is Mark Kelly's recent situation with a dog.

[baldguy]

67. That's not a Pit Bull. It's an American Bulldog.

The story can't even get the breed of dog correct, and shows the prevalence of the "OMG! PIT BULL! KILL IT! KILL IT!" attitude of the media, which generates the kind uninformed hysteria & ignorant ideas as posted here.

[ellie]

64. His head!

It is too big for his body.

[snooper2]

68. I don't know if anyone gave you a copy of the official rules...

But you are like 27 days too early for the next pit bull thread...


We are keeping track of these infractions FYI

[IrishAyes]

72. Everyone

Please try to understand the legitimate concerns of some anti-pitt posters here today. There are indeed too many ill-bred pitts in the hands of antisocial owners. The statistics should not be ignored. That isn't to say the breed should be eradicated, but maybe those same owners need to face far heavier criminal negligence penalties in the event of attacks than they do now. That might make at least a few be more careful in their own best interests.

Trust me, it's no fun when any powerful dog mounts a serious attack against an innocent person. I read dog signs as well as anyone, and if not for a ready and steady hand with pepper spray, I'd have been road kill myself on more than one occasion.

However, I've also known and owned good pitts. A friend had one named Wimpy because he was. Loved everybody he saw and would grab the right hand and shake it back and forth in welcome. It could be unnerving if you didn't know him. One time when I hadn't visited for months, I sat down in a chair at Wimpy's house and he jumped in my lap and started to lick my face. Partly because I was dressed up and headed downtown, I instinctively pulled my head back, so Wimpy grabbed my neck in his jaws and started to 'shake hands'. Any other dog on earth and I would've freaked out with good reason.

But there's Wimpy, and then there are some other pitts, so... try to have a heart for people too. I socialized my chows to the point I was lucky they bit their food. Not everyone does that or even really knows how. Some have no idea of pack heirarchy or how to fulfill their duties as alpha. It's never wise to allow any animal that's potentially dangerous to engage in alpha behaviors such as preceding you through a door walking ahead of you or being fed first or any of a multitude of actions that too many dog owners don't understand. I'm with Cesar Milan on this. When I made dinner, I ate mine first. While the dogs' food stayed in easy reach of them, yet they wouldn't dream of eating until I finished first and gave them permission.

BTW, if you ever find yourself under serious attack and don't have pepper spray, I'll tell you what most criminals and law enforcement types don't publicize: a dog's most vulnerable point is his chest. Strike a hard enough blow with your fist square in the center and you have a good chance of stopping his heart.

Okay now. Anyone who wants to accuse me of not loving dogs, go ahead and have at it. If you do, I've learned whose opinion is not worth bothering about.

[BainsBane]

74. I have no problem with that

There are indeed dangerous pit bulls, as well as other dogs, and irresponsible owners who should face harsh criminal consequences. My argument is with those who insist the entire breed be exterminated because of what they see in the media.

[IrishAyes]

78. I understand

My argument is only with people who overreact at either end of the scale. I enjoyed your post.

[IrishAyes]

125. Absolutely

But then the correction YOU administered didn't involve you in equal cupidity either, like a certain other poster.

[My Good Babushka]

106. Grabbed your NECK? In it's JAWS?

That's not what a good, or properly trained dog does.

[IrishAyes]

124. You're entirely correct

But then it wasn't my dog, either. The only reason I wasn't too alarmed was because I knew that was Wimpy's manner of greeting.

It was my friend's dog. And that's exactly what I mean about animal lovers who don't have a clue. They're also the people who squawk loudest against Cesar Milan, who's actually far more of a dog lover than they because he respects dogs for what they are: dogs. He doesn't try to turn them into furry faux humans, which really amounts to self worship. ("I love my dog sooo much, I don't consider his canine nature good enough. He must be morphed into a closer version of moi, and I'll accomplish that transformation by treating him like a human in absolute ludicrous denial of his true self.&quot The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[tavalon]

193. Wow, I should have read this post of yours before I posted

I basically said the same thing with three times the wordage. Cesar Milan is head and shoulders above the rest of us in knowing, almost instinctively, how to be the undisputed Alpha. He is a pleasure to watch and as I said in my last post, I've learned so much from him. Actually, I think I was a rotten dog owner when I was in my 20s. I'm much better now, but even with my current dog, I have to remind myself that indulging him isn't innocent - he gets confused. And a confused Standard Poodle can cause damage.

[tavalon]

192. Why would anyone have a problem with your post?

It is full of useful information and any dog owner needs to know how to be alpha, not just for safety but for their beloved dogs happiness. Quite a bit of anxiety on the part of dogs is not knowing what the hierarchy is and trying to fill a void that should be filled by the human(s) in their lives.

I adore dogs and I suspect you do too. That said, it is so important for people to understand that no matter how much we see our dogs as our children, dogs have a different world view. Theirs is neither better nor worse than our own but they do require that we recognize their worldview to help them be happy and productive members of the pack. Then, if we want to indulge the fantasy that they are our children, we can, in our own heads, without messing with their psychological health.

I've only been "attacked" once by a dog and I hesitate to call it an attack. He chased me while I was on my bike and I thought if I stopped, he would stop. Instead, he ran up, grabbed my leg and then neither of us seemed to know what to do next (I was fairly young - maybe 13). He broke the skin but he didn't seem sick and so when his owners came, they got him to let go and they were horrified. At the time (I don't know if it's different now), we were told the dog would have to be put down if we felt he was rabid. I refused to allow that - he clearly wasn't. He wasn't a Pit or a Rottie, BTW, but as I've grown older and wiser, I think I would have handled it differently. Luckily, I was already firmly a dog lover at that point and one strange encounter wasn't going to change that.

Going to dog parks has really helped me understand dog psychology and I remain amazed at their very straightforward way of establishing rank. I think in all my years of going to a dog park, I've only seen one fight, but I've seen lots of behavior that shows that they quickly figure out ranking and who can play with whom and then off they go. Would that humans could be that straightforward.

I've watched a lot of Cesar Milan and I can't say there is much (any?) that I disagree with him on. He's opened my eyes to a number of bad behaviors - on my part.

[opiate69]

76. Shorty and Hercules approve of this post

[OwnedByCats]

109. I love him and his dogs

Shorty has 7 pit bulls. He did have 8 but one of his older ones passed recently, Mussolini.

He has rescued over 400 pit bulls. He lives with 7 of his own. He said he has never been bit by one, even the scared/starving/abused ones that he rescued have never bitten him. He said in his book that he found his head inside the mouth of a mastiff one time, but never a pit bull.

Hercules, in the picture, is his service animal so he goes everywhere with him. How anyone can look at that dog and dislike him just because he's a pit bull is beyond me. I saw both of them at a pet expo in my area and Hercules was so well behaved and mild mannered. If you give him a ball he's quite energetic, but normally he's so incredibly docile and he seems to be handling all this attention he gets really well. He is a great ambassador for his breed, just like Cesar Milan's pit bulls, Junior and the late Daddy.

Say what you will about Shorty, I know he can be hot headed and brash at times, he may not always handle conflict in the most constructive way, but he's doing a good thing, IMO. Others I'm sure would disagree, but that's the way it goes.

[opiate69]

185. The guy`s pretty inspirational all the way around..

And yeah... If 3 "little people" can go around rescuing these dogs - many of whom are frightened or even hurt/ill - without incident, what are us so-called "normal" folks so freaked out about?

[OwnedByCats]

195. I don't know why people are so freaked

out. Surely by now Shorty would have been eaten by his 7 pit bulls since they are so inherently vicious.

Shorty said that when him and Hercules would be in an airport, it was like the parting of the Red Sea. Everyone just retreated away. Now he says there are times when he thinks he might miss his flight because so many people want to pet Hercules and take his picture. With shows like Pit Boss, Pit Bulls and Parolees and Cesar Milan who loves the breed, more and more people are coming around. There are many documentaries about the subject, and the success of hundreds of rescue groups. But there will always be the haters though, so what can you do?

[opiate69]

196. Hey.. I admit to a certain visceral reaction myself...

I think 20 years or so of fear-mongering leaves an imprint.. even though I used to have a relative who I used to visit all the time who had a Pit and she was the sweetest dog in the world.. hell, I`ve been bitten twice and cornered a couple times in my life, and none of those dogs were pits.. just gonna take some time to deprogram people I think, and all the examples you named are doing yeomans work in that regard.

[OwnedByCats]

197. I get that people have a genuine fear

because of the negative coverage they get in the media. Some people even have a fear of all dogs, not just Pits. When I started hearing about pit bulls attacking people, I did not know what to think. I had known people with them and they were sweet. I remained somewhat neutral on the subject, still wondering if most deserved their reputation, though I suspected the problem pits were most likely abused and trained to fight or be aggressive. Then I ended up taking a job that would mean I would be exposed to all kinds of breeds and mixes. The pit bulls are some of the sweetest dogs I have been around. Sometimes they can get pretty excitable over the love and affection they are shown, but have all been good so far. Not a one out of the 80 or so I have worked with showed aggression. Quite a few of them were rescues before being adopted but were pretty well adjusted despite that and their adoptees absolutely adored them. I think they are pretty resilient in general. Then I got involved with pit bull rescue shelters and learned a lot. I was willing to investigate for myself rather than listen to just the negative stories., which many seem content to rely on to protect their image of what they think is an aggressive dog by nature.

Any dog can be dangerous in the wrong hands. My father as a child witnessed a collie (not his) who was a Lassie look alike tear his neighbor's child to pieces. At the time, the show "Lassie" was pretty popular. It seems unfathomable, but it happens.

[opiate69]

199. yep.. just going to take a lot of good people countering the fear mongering

[Wait Wut]

166. !!!

Love Shorty!!! And, his dogs, of course!

[Evoman]

79. I'm so torn about this subject.

On the one hand, I love dogs and have met so many beautiful, good pitbulls. On the other hand, I've seen the innocent victims of maulings (I even pet the "bad pitball" while he was in quarantine where I volunteered...I wasnt scared and he was a sweet heart, even though he mauled someone. Sigh. One of the saddest days ever.).

I'm a scientist....a geneticist/molecular biologist. And in my understanding of the literature, genetics can have a huge effect on both the psycholical and physical make up of the dog, both which cause their own problems. Psychologically, these dogs were bred to fight...and you can't tell me Pitts aren't aggressive when some smaller animal or dog sets the off. They can be great dogs, but there is a hidden instinct in those genes that comes from years of selective breeding. That wouldn't even be so bad if we didn't have the other genetics aspects....the sheer musculature and strength of the dog and it's jaws. Little runt dogs can have agression problems, but they aren't a double threat that pits can be. In my opinion, I wish we could stop intentionally breeding dogs....those itself create even more genetic problems in many breeds.

So what to do about Pitts? I don't think we should ban them or kill them. But we do have to maybe consider making their breeding illegal. They should be converted back into Pitt mutts.....if you are gonna breed, try to breed them with smaller, less aggressive, less powerful dogs. We don't need fighter dogs. Your average sized dog is more than up for the job guarding you. We need to take measures to make sure people that sell these animals are not selling them to thugs or idiots. Not sure how you go about doing that, but it's probably necessary.

I love dogs, and that includes pits. But I always try to be careful that my love and emotions don't cloud what I see is a true reality....and that is that Pitts can be dangerous. They can be, and we need to accept it and deal with it in some manner. how? That's the tough part.

[BainsBane]

83. some are bred for fighting

Where breeders take the most aggressive dogs and breed them with each other. But others aren't bred that way. Some are just dogs. There are other breeds with aggressive streaks, German Shepard's, for example. That aggression is central to the breeds utility as police and military dogs. Pits have incredibly powerful jaws, which can make them more deadly when they do turn aggressive.

I guess I don't object to your idea of not allowing further breeding of pits, but I suspect that may not change much. Each generation the media focuses on a new breed of danger. When I was a kid is was the Doberman, then the Rotweiler. Is a pit any more aggressive than those breeds? I don't know if that's the case. It may be media hysteria. I'd have to see actual data to be convinced. Most of what people and communities operate from in banning pits is fear rather than sound information.

[Evoman]

87. Fair enough.

If it was up to me, there would be no breeding at all....just free dog on dog love to make mutts. Mutts are the greatest...less genetic vulnerabilities, smarter, friendlier. I've never met a bad mutt. Hell, I've seen a gods-knows-what-mutts kick ass at herding and retrieving as farm dogs just as good as any breed.

What we are doing with dogs...giving them all kinds of physical and mental infirmaries with too much interbreeding is a terrible thing.

[BainsBane]

88. I'm a mutt fan myself

That's what my girl is, pictured here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2572567

I could not possibly have a better dog. She's no guard dog, however. She'd lick someone as they were walking out with the TV set.

[Evoman]

89. You'd be surprised. Dogs can smell threats.

I thought one of my dogs was all love, all the time, but the one time someone broke in, he barked like a mad man and scared them off. And it was the same dog who would let strangers in no problem....until the one time the stranger was a bad guy.

Never underestimate your doggies love to protect you.

[BainsBane]

91. People keep telling me that

Perhaps. Hopefully I won't have to find out.

[IrishAyes]

126. My Brigid and Molly

would help them carry it to their car. One thing for sure, there can't be an ounce of chow blood in those two. All my chows ever really had to do was to stare somebody down.

[teenagebambam]

81. I hear lots about sweet pits

but have also had two separate dogs attacked by "family-friendly" pits who left their property and charged into the street with the sole intent of attacking my 30-lb. beagle, and my 35-lb corgi. The corgi was lucky, the beagle came away with a $1500 surgery and a permanent disability. So I have a hard time being sympathetic.

[BainsBane]

84. that's understandable

though I think it's important to remember than that was a function of those individual dogs. Others have stories of attacks by different breeds.

[flvegan]

90. Is racism a problem with you too?

How about sexism?

Just curious about how you judge.

Just saying.

[BainsBane]

92. I think about that parallel

Between pits and racism. I suspect it doesn't hold, however.

[teenagebambam]

116. Absolutely.

Both of the pitbulls that attacked my dogs were owned by white families in quiet suburban neighborhoods, so I try to avoid people and places like that now.

[OwnedByCats]

117. I think, but I could be wrong -

what was meant by that is some people compare discrimination against breed as being the same as discrimination against a certain race of people. You judge a person on the content of their character, not their race, or what they look like. Don't judge a dog just because of breed. While some can be dog aggressive or human aggressive, the vast majority are not. Punishing all for the acts of a few is wrong IMO.

I'm a huge animal lover, I care as much about animals as I do about people, and to be honest, probably more so. I'm very unapologetic about that. To me, I consider the shunning of a whole breed to be equivalent to that of racial discrimination. It's not an overly popular stance to take and many might disagree, but it's how I feel. I just know it's not always a welcome statement in these debates. Doesn't change how I feel though.

[99Forever]

129. Equating human traits to dogs...

.. is utterly ridiculous. Breeds are NOT "races of dogs," they BREEDS with SPECIFIC character and physical attributes BRED (there's the hint for you) into SPECIFIC dogs, for SPECIFIC tasks.

They are called PIT BULLS for a SPECIFIC reason.

[OwnedByCats]

160. They are not called

race of dogs, but they are the same species, but differ in size, color, and appearance. We are all of the human species, but we differ in size, color and appearance. If I look at a different race of person, is it right to think that entire race of people are bad because a small percentage have done bad things? Of course not. Am I to assume because serial killers are profiled as being normally white males that means ALL white males are evil?

Personalities of different races of people vary highly too. No race of people all behave exactly the same. So you see a pit bull and assume it's dangerous even though you know absolutely nothing about that individual dog? They are not carbon copies either. Their owners have a significant role in molding them, some exceptions can occur but the buck stops with the owner in the vast majority of problem pit bull cases. However the vast majority of pit bulls in general are not vicious evil dogs.

I see discrimination in any form with people, whether it's about color, creed, sex or sexual orientation to be abhorrent. To lynch an entire breed of dog and claim they are all the same is no different to me. I'm not trying to lessen racism involving people by comparing the two, of course people in the past have suffered greatly over this type of ignorance. However when this type of ignorance causes a city to ban an entire breed of dog based on the ignorant assumption that they are all the same, that should not be acceptable for man nor beast. Denver put down so many pit bulls because of their ban, taking them away from their families even though the dogs had no history of aggression whatsoever, not even a single complaint about barking, much less aggressive behavior. It's, I'm sorry to say, BS.

As I said, others disagree and that's fine. I'm only explaining why I feel that way personally. I don't expect a lot of people to agree but I hold animals in higher regard than maybe most who would disagree. That's just how I was raised, to be kind to both man and animal. The difference is man should know better on how to treat others.

[99Forever]

164. Dogs are not people, period.

You can write a 10,000 essay telling us all about your "feelings" and it won't change reality. Frankly, I couldn't care any less if you "feel" I am being "discriminatory" or not. The numbers PROVE beyond any shadow of a doubt that Pit Bulls pose a significant risk of serious injury, maiming, mutilation and death to both people and other animals, FAR beyond that of any other breed. If you think that isn't important enough to matter, then that's on you.

[OwnedByCats]

174. Hey, feel free not read my essays if it's too

much trouble for you. I don't have a gun to your head, sunshine.

So you mean the number of bites, maiming and fatalities against the sheer number of pit bulls you mean? Still small compared to the millions running around every single day. I never said dogs were people however we are all animals at the end of the day, we just happen to normally be on top of the food chain. Scientists claim we evolved from monkeys.

I don't care if you disagree with me on the discrimination or not. I said you were more than welcome to disagree. Comments like yours normally keep me from using how I "feel" as a legitimate argument in this debate because I know not everyone will take that seriously and some just love to pick on people's feelings as if that makes their point more valid. If I talk about my own experiences with pit bulls, it's anecdotal so it doesn't count (however those against pit bulls are no less anecdotal than my experiences either). If I point to the numbers of fatalities against how many pit bulls there are, it's one of the rarest ways to die. Relativity never seems to matter or taken into consideration on this topic somehow.

Do pit bulls attack? Yes, but most do not. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit your narrative but it's a fact. Do other breeds attack? Yes, but most in every breed do not either. That is also a fact. When I lived in a country where no pit bulls were allowed to breathe, what do you think the epidemic was there? Dobermans, Rottweilers and the occasional German Shepherd. Do the majority of those dogs maim and kill people? No, it was the same ignorance as here, the only difference were the breeds involved. A tiny percentage that makes some believe all of those breeds of dog pose a significant danger.

The blame falls significantly on the owners most of the time. You think banning a whole breed is going to stop that? No, they'll just abuse other breeds who then become maligned and then the bans come out. Where does it stop? You deal with the source of the problem. Oh but it's too much effort to deal with the source, it's easier just to ban the dogs. Lazy is all I have to say about that solution and you'll be back at square one with another breed. It matters to me if a dog hurts a person, but I'm not going to be so closed minded to believe it's just the breed. Do you even realize that pit bull "type" dogs are most commonly mixed with goodness only knows what because people don't do the responsible thing and spay and neuter their dogs? So is it the mixes, which are not even a pure breed but a mutt, or a pure bred dog in the pit bull family? Or is it that any dog, with any amount of pit bull terrier are also to blame too?

When I was a child, Dobermans and Rottweilers were the popular dogs to be maligned as "dangerous". 30 years later, the more things change, the more they stay the same and the only thing that's really changed, is the breed. The bullshit still stands.

[99Forever]

175. Thanks for permission.

I'll take you up on it.

Have a nice evening.

[redqueen]

130. Not liking certain breeds is not analogous to racism or sexism. nt

[Riftaxe]

95. Rottweilers are my bane

Yet i have met many more nice ones over the years then ones who have bit me.

Now Yorkies, Chihuahuas and other demon possessed horrid small dogs have convinced me that anyone who owns anything smaller then a beagle just enjoys the sight of human blood. Even beagles are border line, but are trainable at least.

I much prefer Golden retrievers (dumb as hell but happy) and labradors (decent intelligence and happy as well), a prejudice which I share with my vet who places both with me when needed.

[BainsBane]

143. not a small dog fan myself

Particularly little yappy ones like Chihuahuas. I like a nice calm, bigger dog. I'm certainly not advocating exterminating breeds. They just aren't my choice of pets.

[Riftaxe]

212. Lord, people who extol the virtues of exterminating things that disagree with them

Are usually worth ignoring, and hardly liberal.

[madokie]

103. Yet I live next door to a pit

and its been in my yard many times playing with my dog but a while back it attacked my border collie and I had to choke it down to to get it off of her. Out of the blue this dog turned on us. Now when we're out in the yard it charges the fence growling and carrying on like it wants to eat us both. I don't trust it for a second now.
Both are spayed. Our dog is 15 years old and never had pups the pit has had two litters before they had her spayed.
I don't even want to hear about how good of a dog pit bulls are actually. Not any more anyway

[SamReynolds]

111. Yes, I'm sure 'butt smell' is important here, somehow.

But don't get me started on the smart fellers you'll be up against with that tact of yours.

[BainsBane]

146. that particular greeting is applicable only to dogs

but the general principle is broader.

[Aerows]

118. This thread

would be much more interesting if they were breast feeding at the Olive Garden while eating fried chicken.

[OnyxCollie]

120. And then was asked to show the receipt. nt

[BainsBane]

121. Alas, one can't have everything in life.

[tavalon]

194. This is a complete aside

I notice that many on the board are changing their icon to the one you have. I just wanted to verify that it's a solidarity with marriage equality thing before I go and follow the pack. I'm for marriage equality, of course.

[BainsBane]

198. Yes, that's what it is

The avatar is available among the DU selection.

[tavalon]

200. Yeah, I figured it out for sure from some one else's post

Since I still have I voted, it's high time I changed and it's a good time to show solidarity with my gay brothers and sisters.

[Zorra]

141. Apparently, every fatality due to dog attack in the US this year has been caused by a pit bull.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States#Fatalities_reported_in_2013

You might have a bit of trouble making your case with the families of the victims.


Several years ago, one of those "sweet lil darlin's that wouldn't hurt a fly" got off its chain, got into our yard, and almost killed my ex-partner's beloved kitty.

True, these facts don't prove that every pit bull is unstable and vicious, they simply strongly indicate to me that a very significant number of them probably are.

[baldguy]

145. Apparently, out of those 6 incidents (yes, only 6 - from 80 million dogs) only 2 are from Pit Bulls.

In each of the other 4, the breed was not positively identified by trained personnel. I can give you dozens of links proving that breed identification in the news media is problematic, and generally inaccurate, but I'll just direct you to Post # 58, where the story describes the dog as a Pit Bull, a Bulldog, an American Bulldog, and an American bulldog mix - all on the same page, referring to the same dog.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022571960#post58

You're more likely to be killed by a horse (or even your bathtub, for that matter) than you are by any dog.

[MineralMan]

147. That looks like the dog park we take our dog to

in St. Paul, MN.

[BainsBane]

148. It probably is

It came from an article about the need for dog parks in St. Paul.

[MineralMan]

150. Ah, OK. I think that's the one then, just off Arlington, in the

West side of the city. It's a good park, but right now it's slippery as the dickens, especially on the hills.

[BainsBane]

152. yep

http://www.tcdailyplanet.net/article/2008/03/10/st-paul-dog-owners-straining-leash.html

We usually go to Riverside Park in Minneapolis.

[MineralMan]

153. We have a friend who uses the Riverside park.

Once Spring finally arrives (hoping), we're going to schedule a play date for the dogs there. It's pretty ugly at the dog parks right now, and mud season is almost here. But, it's still worth it, letting the dog run free for a change.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

149. i think there is something to breeds, since i have never met a nice akita

nor do i know anyone else who has (know, like know in real life not like some random username on the internet)


a pit bull who was friendly with the cats, suddenly one day destroyed my friends cat. which is to say, i wouldn't adopt a pit since i own a cat, but i wouldn't advocate for the extinction of the breed either.

[GreenRanger]

154. Yea

Pitt Bulls get such a bad stereotype... It all depends on how they are raised.

[demwing]

155. "She judges based on butt smell and who is the most fun"

My teenaged son has similar standards

[BainsBane]

156. LOL

Don't all teenage boys?

[rdharma]

157. That's one ugly Easter Bunny!

?1364322835554

[BainsBane]

158. Oh, no it's not

It's darling. Look at the bunnies cuddle with the doggy.

[rdharma]

163. Move over Grumpy Cat!

Here comes the friendly Bulldog!

[BainsBane]

179. I just want to know

what you did with its ears?

[rdharma]

184. I don't know.....not my dog.

But it appears the owner somehow put the dog's ears behind its' head on the bird pictures. To give the bird a better perch?

There are other photos of the same dog with normal uncut ears.

[Wait Wut]

167. I still miss my pitties.

Saw one in a movie the other nite that looked exactly like my first one. Broke my heart.

I've had four of them. All trained and socialized. Not one ever attacked, bit or threatened a human or animal. My cats had total control over my last one.

Very sweet, intelligent and loving dogs. But, just like any other dog, need to be trained and socialized.

[TBF]

169. OMG - cuteness! I can't believe some countries ban these adorable babies. nt

[markpkessinger]

180. Yes, such adorable cuteness . . .

Last edited Wed Mar 27, 2013, 08:57 PM - Edit history (1)

[OwnedByCats]

191. Yes that really convinces me, well done

[TBF]

204. Very mature. nt

[markpkessinger]

208. It was immature -- but I was trying to illustrate a point --

-- which is that it is no more fair or reasonable to discount the experiences of those who have themselves, or who have had friends or loved ones (or pets) attacked by theses dogs by posting cutesy puppy pictures, than it is to brand all pitbulls as vicious predators.

[MynameisBlarney]

171. I've only ever seen two pitbulls in my life that I was afraid of

and they were mistreated, neglected animals.
Any dog can be an SOB when it lives its life at the end of a chain.

[grahampuba]

172. MSP Airport dog park?

we have a boxer also..

[geckosfeet]

177. ib#86

[Bucky]

178. When I tried to learn that same lesson I was told to quit sniffing peoples' butts

[BainsBane]

181. that's cause you haven't figured out

when the other dog is supposed to sniff your butt. There is a pecking order to these things.

[DesertDiamond]

187. I wish I could rec this 100 times! Every pit bull I have ever met has been a cuddle bunny, with the

only exception being one whose mother was fed gun powder to try to make her a fighting dog. He's sweet and loving, just a little nervous and nips on rare occasion for that reason, but is always immediately sorry. Last year I rescued an American Staffordshire off the street and he is the sweetest dog ever - loves everyone and everything - dogs large and small, kids, bunnies, kitties - everyone. Those that behave meanly are that way because of human behavior. It's that simple. Lock up those who mistreat them, not the poor dogs.

[BainsBane]

190. gun powder?

Are you serous?

[Liberal_in_LA]

189. glad u survived

[Notafraidtoo]

201. The breed

Is popular among people that had rough upbringings and were brought up in dangerous bad environments that left them uneducated irresponsible and a little messed up,the danger of pit bulls has almost everything to do with bad owners making pit bulls victims of culture and maybe even social economic policy.

[whathehell]

202. "The breed is popular among people that had rough upbringings.."

and were brought up in dangerous bad environments that left

them 'uneducated, irresponsible and a little messed up'"


Is this the polite way of calling them "trash".

[IrishAyes]

205. No

It's the uneducated, irresponsible, and a little messed up condescension of those who imagine themselves enlightened, no matter how far up the ladder birth and privilege might have perched them.

Now I AM going, as promised earlier. Really. I feel I owe it to everyone.

No, no... begging me to reconsider won't work.

[whathehell]

206. Yes

"It's the uneducated, irresponsible, and a little messed up condescension of those who imagine themselves enlightened, no matter how far up the ladder birth and privilege might have perched them".

Unfortunately, that's not what Notafraidtoo said, and if this is as clear as your writing

gets, I'd say it Is time for you to leave.

[IrishAyes]

207. Someone sent me a pm re your complete misreading of my post

Oy vey! What have I let myself be sucked into now?

Kindly read all 3 previous posts again. Notafraidtoo described a particular socio-economic group - it's there in b&w unless someone's deleted it! - that you appeared to question, as in "Is this the polite way to say trash?" or words to that effect. YOU questioned the description. Rightfully so, and I tried to state my equal disagreement with that poster by defining what that person's words appeared to mean really: faux-liberal condescension, however possibly well meant, by someone higher up the food chain and unqualified to speak on the condition of those disparaged.

Not DID make that poor and unqualified description, and you DID question it. My quote appearing at the top of your post in reply to me was my assessment of the true import of what Not said and what you certainly seemed to challenge. I made no pretense of claiming that's exactly what Not said - I alluded to the subterranean message Not's statement revealed.

Why is my own questioning of Not's description so hard for you to understand? That's what I don't understand! If you revisit those 3 posts with an open mind, perhaps you'll see that you misread mine entirely. We all make mistaks sometimes. But don't blame the choir when the audience is tone-deaf! Please and thank you kindly.

Now please - I have dogs to take care of, and they're being shortchanged by this prolonged distraction. I owe them first claim on my time. If anyone else emails me and says the whole room's cussing me out, I really must learn when to resist that mosh pit.

[whathehell]

211. That's nice. Maybe they should: A. Send it to me or B. Post it online

Whatever.

Sorry if I misread your post. It happens to all of us on occasion. Maybe

when you're here a little longer, you'll understand that it's no Big Whoop.

Have a nice day.

[Notafraidtoo]

213. Your right i went to far.

I will just say irresponsible owners are the issue much more then the temperament of the breed,and irresponsible people can come from any walk of life, in my own personal experience pit bull owners i know have been very bad dog owners and much of that has had to do with the tough life they have both current and growing up doesn't mean all people with tough lives are bad owners hope that clears it up a bit.

oh and no doesn't mean i think they are trash.

[BainsBane]

214. Not the ones I see

But then since I encounter pits at the dog park or out on walks, these are socialized dogs. Highly Aggressive dogs don't usually go to dog parks.