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meegbear

(25,438 posts)
Fri Mar 29, 2013, 12:25 PM Mar 2013

The Rude Pundit: Adam Lanza Fired Over 150 of These in Less Than Five Minutes



If you think that's okay and should remain legal, then there is something deeply, disturbingly fucked-up about you. And if you think it's okay and should remain legal and you're spending time today remembering the crucifixion of your god, then you are an ignorant piece of shit. Have a good Good Friday, you prick.

http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2013/03/adam-lanza-fired-over-150-of-these-in.html
148 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The Rude Pundit: Adam Lanza Fired Over 150 of These in Less Than Five Minutes (Original Post) meegbear Mar 2013 OP
+ 50,000,000 russspeakeasy Mar 2013 #1
+ another 50,000,000! lastlib Mar 2013 #5
There aren't that many particles in the entire universe. N/T GreenStormCloud Mar 2013 #18
That might be considered an intelligent statement........ lastlib Mar 2013 #23
I cross posted this to the Gungeon Electric Monk Mar 2013 #2
If you think that... discntnt_irny_srcsm Mar 2013 #3
I guess than, that I am not a "prick!" jonthebru Mar 2013 #4
Are those really .223s? adieu Mar 2013 #6
Very difficult to tell without something for scale. N/T GreenStormCloud Mar 2013 #7
The proportions are right, but with nothing to compare to, who knows. X_Digger Mar 2013 #8
223 ammo rickyhall Mar 2013 #9
I wonder how they looked to those kids........ lastlib Mar 2013 #24
So we should ban .223 ammo? hack89 Mar 2013 #10
...sez another bullet-head.......... lastlib Mar 2013 #25
Why do you think it is good idea? nt hack89 Mar 2013 #32
might keep a few kids from getting killed..... lastlib Mar 2013 #35
By making one kind of bullet illegal? hack89 Mar 2013 #37
And we need every kind in case one gets banned. Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #60
But since we hear constantly about how we can keep our hunting rifles hack89 Mar 2013 #68
That whole "refuse to understand guns" line is a RW talking point... Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #73
Yet the OP is a classic example of gun ignorance hack89 Mar 2013 #75
The people devoted to watering it down are the ones to worry about. Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #80
Nobody waterdowned CT's AWB. hack89 Mar 2013 #81
LOL!!! Do you honestly believe the AWB under Clinton was seen by Liberals as perfection? Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #83
I am talking about CT's AWB - the one that said Lanza rifle was not an assault rifle. nt hack89 Mar 2013 #85
My point is that Liberals could stop this if we were represented. Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #87
Not if they willfully remain ignorant about guns hack89 Mar 2013 #88
But that's where you fall down flat. Liberals into the issue know their shit. Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #89
There doesn't seem to much evidence of that here hack89 Mar 2013 #93
Do you honestly believe Liberals don't know the game? Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #96
This is what I don't understand about the focus on assualt weapons hack89 Mar 2013 #97
I picture a day when some RW Gun Cult storms DC.... Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #98
A threat to national security? hack89 Mar 2013 #99
Don't tempt me. I want it all.... Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #100
Not a silly dream at all. nt hack89 Mar 2013 #101
I wonder if we would be having this debate if it were disintegration pistols.... Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #102
Agreed. Fuck understanding a gun, and fuck the ghouls who swim in that garbage. n/t DisgustipatedinCA Mar 2013 #82
Then there is the spectacle of gun nuts telling Congress they may need to shoot,...Congress. Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #84
Because willful ignorance is the perfect basis for effective gun control laws. hack89 Mar 2013 #86
You are so clueless and emotional that you make no sense. n-t Logical Mar 2013 #103
Not what Rude said. Bolo Boffin Mar 2013 #30
One link to the amount of ammo and another one to a guide on .223 ammo hack89 Mar 2013 #31
Perhaps a closer look at the linked page would have shown you how Bolo Boffin Mar 2013 #47
Reloading = making your own bullets. hack89 Mar 2013 #66
I was saying your distraction here on a side issue was asinine. Bolo Boffin Mar 2013 #127
So what is the main issue? hack89 Mar 2013 #130
We should ban all triggers. Common Sense Party Mar 2013 #119
I love your ironic name hack89 Mar 2013 #124
No, just high-capacity magazines. Or better yet, jazzimov Mar 2013 #123
Thank you, Rude Pundit. Eloquent, as usual. (nt) Paladin Mar 2013 #11
Yes, remain legal. GreenStormCloud Mar 2013 #12
I know its a cliche, but how do you distinguish mortars or hand grenades or other weapons onenote Mar 2013 #16
The difference is in discreet vs. to-whom-it-may-concern targeting. GreenStormCloud Mar 2013 #17
Ever consider another hobby? Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #62
X 1000. Paladin Mar 2013 #67
I wouldn't object to someone going into a classroom with fishing poles. Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #74
Nor would I. Hell, they could bring along some treble hooks, as well. (nt) Paladin Mar 2013 #76
They could even bring a fly tie rig. Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #79
You are 100% correct. But logic fails most on this forum. n-t Logical Mar 2013 #104
You want to talk logic? Electric Monk Mar 2013 #106
I will ask you the same question I always ask.... Logical Mar 2013 #107
Looks like you answered your own question there. Ok, you've convinced me, lets do that. nt Electric Monk Mar 2013 #108
Really, you think there is any possibility? If so you are clueless. n-t Logical Mar 2013 #109
And now you're back to the "From my cold dead hands!" argument... Electric Monk Mar 2013 #110
Wow, people like you are as bad as the worst gun nuts...... Logical Mar 2013 #111
But you gunners keep arguing that incremental changes like restricting mag size are meaningless Electric Monk Mar 2013 #112
Once again, slower this time...... Logical Mar 2013 #113
They're meaningless... beevul Mar 2013 #126
But Cruz, Rubio, Inhofe, Paul don't want you to have a say about mass murderers. alfredo Mar 2013 #13
If you think that's okay and should remain legal, then there is something deeply, malaise Mar 2013 #14
And a Merry Fucking Easter ellisonz Mar 2013 #15
Sorry, magnificent Rude one: the Congress has decided it's aok for the citizenry to tote and indepat Mar 2013 #19
Factual inaccuracy doesn't help your argument. beevul Mar 2013 #115
And are AR-15's constitutionally protected? If so, then why not machine guns, mortars, bazookas, indepat Mar 2013 #116
People own "machine guns, mortars, bazookas". beevul Mar 2013 #125
Have seen photos of a person brandishing? an AR-15 inside a crowded department store indepat Mar 2013 #133
If you're referring... beevul Mar 2013 #134
Am I to presume those with an assault rifle slung on their back were members of the well-regulated indepat Apr 2013 #141
What does "a well regulated militia" have to do with this discussion? N/T beevul Apr 2013 #142
Certainly no reference to a well regulated militia in the Constitution, much less in the Second indepat Apr 2013 #146
Message auto-removed DemNotLib Mar 2013 #20
Welcome back Remmah2? Electric Monk Mar 2013 #21
What a stupid post. Zoeisright Mar 2013 #22
"Epic fail" as a comment on your own fact-free post? aint_no_life_nowhere Mar 2013 #26
" ...then there is something deeply, disturbingly fucked-up about you" Skittles Mar 2013 #28
" ...then there is something deeply, disturbingly fucked-up about you" villager Mar 2013 #27
And this would be why I love The Rude One!!!!! all american girl Mar 2013 #29
So, what, ban Lee-Enfield (ca 1907) rifles? X_Digger Mar 2013 #33
Sure. And you can also find You Tube videos ThoughtCriminal Mar 2013 #39
Actually, that *is* shooting at and hitting a target, 300 meters away. X_Digger Mar 2013 #40
"Mad Minute" has no relation to real world shooting at people ThoughtCriminal Mar 2013 #41
"Mad Minute" was training for soldiers. It's definitely about real world shooting. X_Digger Mar 2013 #43
Another Free Throw Video? ThoughtCriminal Mar 2013 #44
No, reality X_Digger Mar 2013 #45
Shooting range - Yawn ThoughtCriminal Mar 2013 #46
Notice the ones that don't match up (more casualties than ammo or vice versa) X_Digger Mar 2013 #48
"Take a stats case sometime" ThoughtCriminal Mar 2013 #54
Yes, I know, I shorthanded it. Any other nits to pick? X_Digger Mar 2013 #56
33 of 37 ThoughtCriminal Mar 2013 #58
33 of 37 used semi-autos with more than 10 rounds, yes. X_Digger Mar 2013 #59
It's not rocket surgery. Straw Man Mar 2013 #52
Again, clip changes timesat the range are not relevant ThoughtCriminal Mar 2013 #55
That's why I said three or four seconds. Straw Man Mar 2013 #61
He only would have needed to fire 5 rounds per minute. krispos42 Mar 2013 #136
25 rounds ThoughtCriminal Mar 2013 #137
He shot one kid 11 times krispos42 Apr 2013 #138
You know, getting shot multiple times does increase the fatalities ThoughtCriminal Apr 2013 #139
There is something to that, to an extent krispos42 Apr 2013 #140
At best, you are making a case for a more comprehensive ban ThoughtCriminal Apr 2013 #143
That's what I've been saying for three months now krispos42 Apr 2013 #144
Where is the DU unrec when you need it? nt guardian Mar 2013 #34
luckily you don't need it CreekDog Mar 2013 #49
Where is the DU Ignore when you need it? 99Forever Mar 2013 #78
Kick. nt Robb Mar 2013 #36
Why do you think that people who haven't done anything illegal.... CobblePuller Mar 2013 #38
I can unload 15 5 round mags in less than 5 minutes. ileus Mar 2013 #42
That's nice. Kindly stay the fuck out of my neighborhood. (nt) Paladin Mar 2013 #69
LOL! n-t Logical Mar 2013 #105
So you and Lanza have something in common. Or did you have another point? Robb Mar 2013 #72
The Newtown massacre is a true horror, but this mini rant is ridiculous aikoaiko Mar 2013 #50
Funny then how Lanza had access to that type of weapon Pale Blue Dot Mar 2013 #118
Would the shooting be less horrific if he used pistols aikoaiko Mar 2013 #120
You didn't answer the question. Pale Blue Dot Mar 2013 #121
I don't know why he chose what he chose. aikoaiko Mar 2013 #122
If... if ... if.. 99Forever Mar 2013 #128
+infinity Apophis Mar 2013 #51
Oddly enough ... Straw Man Mar 2013 #53
I suppose many here think that insulting gun owners is a good idea. ... spin Mar 2013 #57
Meh... I doubt DU is really that important, in the way you're talking about. nomorenomore08 Mar 2013 #63
Every gun owner who supports personal ownership of assault weapons deserves every bit of it. Buzz Clik Mar 2013 #65
I bet most here wish they didn't have to. But some gunners just seem so fucking dumb. jmg257 Mar 2013 #92
Your concern is noted. 2ndAmForComputers Mar 2013 #95
I grew up in the 1950s and 60s. ... spin Mar 2013 #114
Your concern is noted. 2ndAmForComputers Mar 2013 #132
OK gun/ammo experts - you've convinced me - ban them all bread_and_roses Mar 2013 #64
my son showed me his assault weapon, safely locked up in a gun safe mountain grammy Mar 2013 #70
Source? AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #71
It seems a Box or a safe, he had access to them. The dumb ass gave him guns jmg257 Mar 2013 #94
The gun safe was in the kid's room, he was also a "responsible gun owner" mountain grammy Mar 2013 #117
The Rude One knocks it out of the park again. 99Forever Mar 2013 #77
Thanks, RP. You sure said that better than I could. Auntie Bush Mar 2013 #90
Lee is a national treasure. nt stevenleser Mar 2013 #91
Then pass a ban that will actually work Sgent Mar 2013 #129
Kick ellisonz Mar 2013 #131
And taking away his pistol grip would not have interfered with that. krispos42 Mar 2013 #135
Pretty easy to shoot that fast with almost anything. tom2255 Apr 2013 #145
kick Blue_Tires Apr 2013 #147
The piece doesn't suggest anything resembling a workable solution to this non-problem slackmaster Apr 2013 #148

lastlib

(23,262 posts)
5. + another 50,000,000!
Fri Mar 29, 2013, 02:14 PM
Mar 2013

(that's fifty million *factorial*--for the math-challenged, 2x3x4x5x6....x49,999,999x50,000,000)


I regret that I have but one rec to give for the best post of the day.............

lastlib

(23,262 posts)
23. That might be considered an intelligent statement........
Fri Mar 29, 2013, 06:23 PM
Mar 2013

...if it was relevant to anything.............................

 

adieu

(1,009 posts)
6. Are those really .223s?
Fri Mar 29, 2013, 02:19 PM
Mar 2013

They look awfully big. More like .50 cals. But, I'm not familiar with ammos.

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
8. The proportions are right, but with nothing to compare to, who knows.
Fri Mar 29, 2013, 02:28 PM
Mar 2013


The two on the right are the most common hunting rounds used for deer and elk.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
37. By making one kind of bullet illegal?
Fri Mar 29, 2013, 08:40 PM
Mar 2013

there are hundreds of different rifle cartridges available?

hack89

(39,171 posts)
68. But since we hear constantly about how we can keep our hunting rifles
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 09:57 AM
Mar 2013

that means we get to keep all the hunting calibers - correct?

AR-15s can be bought in a multiple calibers. Why do you think you are going to pass effective gun control when you refuse to understand guns? Did gun controllers learn the price of ignorance with the first AWB?

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
73. That whole "refuse to understand guns" line is a RW talking point...
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 11:02 AM
Mar 2013

It's based on the notion that Liberals are either "afraid" of guns or are at the very least unfamiliar with them, thus the argument is that they are inserting themselves into something they know nothing about and "HA HA! Look how silly we can make them look!" and as an added bonus, it invokes the stereotype that Liberals are wimps.

I used to go deer hunting with UAW workers and Teamsters and their politics were VERY liberal.

There are laws that were written by Liberals all ready to go that would stop the madness. The NRA knows this.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
75. Yet the OP is a classic example of gun ignorance
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 11:10 AM
Mar 2013

he is calling out a single rifle caliber as if banning it would makea difference in gun violence. Surely an informed person such as yourself can see the stupidity of that?

And it is not RW talking point to point out that the first AWB was so poorly written as to be useless. Let's not forget that Lanza's rifle would have been legal under the first AWB. Hell, it was legal under CT's present AWB. So don't tell me that everyone writing gun control laws understands guns.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
93. There doesn't seem to much evidence of that here
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 12:26 PM
Mar 2013

or based on the laws that are being proposed in congress. AWB II and limits on magazine size being two good examples.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
96. Do you honestly believe Liberals don't know the game?
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 12:34 PM
Mar 2013

If you ban a 100 round clip with .45 rounds the gun makers will introduce a 99 round clip with a .44 round.

There is such a thing as "The Spirit Of The Law" and that's where the legalese comes in.

Oh,...and another thing that's a favorite RW Talking Point is to claim the laws are useless,....but then they oppose them as if they're the end of the world.

You know,....because they'll do nothing....

hack89

(39,171 posts)
97. This is what I don't understand about the focus on assualt weapons
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 12:40 PM
Mar 2013

we ban them to save 300 lives a year, but do not consider banning handguns to save 30,000 lives a year.

That in a nutshell is why the gun control movement confuses many. They say it is all about saving lives and then immediately focus on the weapon least likely to be used to kill someone, including mass shootings. Do you understand why some think the AWB is just political pandering to a traditional democratic constituency? That they refuse to consider a handgun ban because they know it would be political suicide but think they can get away with an AWB?

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
98. I picture a day when some RW Gun Cult storms DC....
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 12:56 PM
Mar 2013

It will take something that severe to get the idiots in the bubble to consider this crap to be a threat to National Security.

It's obvious they don't give two turds about the people outside of DC. As far as they're concerned the rest of the country is a slum anyway.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
99. A threat to national security?
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 12:59 PM
Mar 2013

so we have cut gun violence in half since 1992 and it continues to steadily decline and yet we have a threat to national security?

The majority of gun deaths are suicides - how are suicides a threat to national security? Isn't that a call for healthcare reform? How about single payer health care with mental health coverage - that would save more lives than the AWB.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
100. Don't tempt me. I want it all....
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 01:05 PM
Mar 2013

I'm one of those crazy Liberals who believes we will eventually live in peace.

Silly me.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
102. I wonder if we would be having this debate if it were disintegration pistols....
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 02:20 PM
Mar 2013

I can picture the NRA claiming those are a matter of freedom.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
86. Because willful ignorance is the perfect basis for effective gun control laws.
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 12:14 PM
Mar 2013

how are you going to know if you were screwed again just like the first AWB? The NRA will do everything in their power to undermine gun control and you won't be smart enough to recognize what they are doing. Is that really going to have a happy ending?

hack89

(39,171 posts)
31. One link to the amount of ammo and another one to a guide on .223 ammo
Fri Mar 29, 2013, 07:07 PM
Mar 2013

with the link to the ammo guide saying "legal". What the hell am I suppose to take away from that?

Bolo Boffin

(23,796 posts)
47. Perhaps a closer look at the linked page would have shown you how
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 01:07 AM
Mar 2013

it contributed to Rude's point: Lanza being able to fire over 150 rounds in 5 minutes. In addition to information about the bullet, there's a section that gives tips for "High-Volume Reloading for Varminters."

hack89

(39,171 posts)
66. Reloading = making your own bullets.
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 09:52 AM
Mar 2013
Although I enjoy reloading, I would rather spend time hunting. The .223 Rem can benefit from all the case prep tricks, but good accurate .223 Rem varmint ammo has few secrets. Inexpensive hunting ammo can be assembled from once-fired military brass, your choice of 40-55 grain bullets, and most small rifle primers. Important if you are going to use military brass is to remove the primer crimp. I have used both reamers and swagers. I prefer the Dillon primer pocket swager for ease of use. For the prairie dog hunter using military brass you can swage 300+ cases an hour with the Dillon tool.


As you were saying?

hack89

(39,171 posts)
130. So what is the main issue?
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 09:50 AM
Mar 2013

why was the OP all about ammunition?

You are not stuttering. This is a typical thread where emotions and facts collided. Gun control is one of the few progressive causes where willful ignorance is celebrated.

jazzimov

(1,456 posts)
123. No, just high-capacity magazines. Or better yet,
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 03:38 AM
Mar 2013

any mag that holds more than 3 rounds.

"But what if you have more than 3 intruders?"

If you have more than 3 armed intruders, you're dead regardless.

GreenStormCloud

(12,072 posts)
12. Yes, remain legal.
Fri Mar 29, 2013, 02:50 PM
Mar 2013

Shooting people was never legal and isn't legal now and should remain illegal, so we aren't talking about that.

Ownership of 5.56mmx45 rifle ammunition is legal and should remain so. Ownership of guns, including semi-autos, that shoot that cartridge is and should remain legal. Ownership of high capacity magazines should remain legal.

Remember, the VT killer used .22LR rimfire cartridges, in a handgun, with standard magazines and killed more people than the Sandy Hook killer did, and he killed adults who had a chance to fight back. So banning the rifle used at Sandy Hook, and the cartridges, and the magazines will still leave crazies with the ability to kill more people.

onenote

(42,726 posts)
16. I know its a cliche, but how do you distinguish mortars or hand grenades or other weapons
Fri Mar 29, 2013, 03:05 PM
Mar 2013

that, when used, more often than not result in fewer fatalities than occurred at Sandy Hook?

Banning those weapons still leaves crazies with the ability to kill more people. So why ban them? Why ban any weapon?

GreenStormCloud

(12,072 posts)
17. The difference is in discreet vs. to-whom-it-may-concern targeting.
Fri Mar 29, 2013, 03:17 PM
Mar 2013

Rifles and pistols are supposed to be aimed and can only target one person at a time. Even shotguns have to be aimed.

Grenades are intended to kill anyboy inside the casuality radius.

Both grenades and mortar shells are legal to own but you have to pay a $200 tax for each grenade or mortar shell. They are classified as "destructive devices".

They aren't common, not because of banning, but because very few people want them and can afford them. Even without the tax they would still be expensive.

A mortar tube is completely legal to own with no paperwork. So are rocket launchers.

 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
107. I will ask you the same question I always ask....
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 03:00 PM
Mar 2013

What laws would stop mass shootings?
Most mass shooters acquired the gun legally.
10 bullet magazines were fine for the VT shooter.
150 people die a year from mass shootings. 9000 from normal gun murders.
But this place freaks out over the 150 deaths.

Unless you ban and collect all 300 million guns, this is a problem with no solution.


 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
111. Wow, people like you are as bad as the worst gun nuts......
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 03:19 PM
Mar 2013

I do not think people need guns to take on the government. It is a stupid belief.

Just like thinking you will ever pass a law to ban gun sales and collect all 300 million guns.

The right wing gun nuts are idiots. So are the people who think we can ban sales of guns and collect 300 million guns.

Understand now?

 

Electric Monk

(13,869 posts)
112. But you gunners keep arguing that incremental changes like restricting mag size are meaningless
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 03:27 PM
Mar 2013

So which is it?

Or does it really come down to you want what you want because you want it?

 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
113. Once again, slower this time......
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 03:36 PM
Mar 2013

what gun laws will stop mass shootings?

I have no issues with universal back ground checks. Private sales included. I also have no issue with magazine limits.

But, it will stop nothing. It will not stop one mass shooting.

Large magazines will still be sold used. 150,000 stolen guns a year will end up in the hands of criminals.

Reality sucks.





 

beevul

(12,194 posts)
126. They're meaningless...
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 09:22 AM
Mar 2013

They're meaningless and ineffective against to those who would disobey and use them to ill purpose - which is presumable what you seek to prevent - the actions of those with ill purpose.

They're meaningful to those of us who would obey and thereby be effected by them. Effecting those of us who generally don't perpetrate gun violence, really doesn't prevent gun violence - which, again, is your goal, presumably.

That's what meaningless means in the context of this issue.

malaise

(269,114 posts)
14. If you think that's okay and should remain legal, then there is something deeply,
Fri Mar 29, 2013, 03:03 PM
Mar 2013

disturbingly fucked-up about you.

DITTO!!

Rec

indepat

(20,899 posts)
19. Sorry, magnificent Rude one: the Congress has decided it's aok for the citizenry to tote and
Fri Mar 29, 2013, 03:28 PM
Mar 2013

brandish an assault weapon which can fire more rounds per minute than American machine guns could during WWII. Moreover, it's aok to add a magazine that holds 100 rounds of ammunition. When I was buying 24 Zertec D tablets yesterday after having provided my driver's license, I had to speak to a pharmacist who asked why I took these pills. Can one imagine what kind of answer might be given by a prospective buyer of an AR-15-type assault weapon if asked why he wanted an assault weapon? Why are you buying this assault weapon Mr X. Answer: I'm angry and depressed and egged on daily by a stochastic terrorist on the radio and I might want to act out my anger and just go into some theater and shoot up the place. O.K., no problem, here's your assault weapon. Ludicrous. Yes, hopefully this simile is indicative of just how ludicrous these entire scenarios are imo.

 

beevul

(12,194 posts)
115. Factual inaccuracy doesn't help your argument.
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 07:55 PM
Mar 2013

"...an assault weapon which can fire more rounds per minute than American machine guns could during WWII."

Machineguns during WW2 had a pretty high rate of fire. Semi-automatic rifles on the other hand, no so much, even with the most experienced triggerfinger.


"When I was buying 24 Zertec D tablets yesterday after having provided my driver's license, I had to speak to a pharmacist who asked why I took these pills. Can one imagine what kind of answer might be given by a prospective buyer of an AR-15-type assault weapon if asked why he wanted an assault weapon?"

Are your zertec D tablets constitutionally protected? Apple, meet orange.

indepat

(20,899 posts)
116. And are AR-15's constitutionally protected? If so, then why not machine guns, mortars, bazookas,
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 09:04 PM
Mar 2013

and flame-throwers, not to mention 155mm howitzers? Could be wrong, but my recollection is the 30- and 50-caliber U.S. machine guns in WWII had a rate of fire in the 600-rounds per minute range whereas a German machine-gun could fire in the 1,500-rounds per minute range. But, what to hell: after 70 years, maybe I misremember. And the Newtown shooter reportedly fired only about +/- 150 rounds in that some five minutes.

 

beevul

(12,194 posts)
125. People own "machine guns, mortars, bazookas".
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 09:12 AM
Mar 2013

Flamethrowers are not regulated as firearms, they're classified as agricultural implements, actually.

And yes, people DO actually own howitzers, tanks, jet fighters, and in some case, with a complete and functioning armament set.

"Could be wrong, but my recollection is the 30- and 50-caliber U.S. machine guns in WWII had a rate of fire in the 600-rounds per minute range whereas a German machine-gun could fire in the 1,500-rounds per minute range."

Yeah, that's probably somewhat close to the truth, however...

What you said, was that "the Congress has decided it's aok for the citizenry to tote and brandish an assault weapon which can fire more rounds per minute than American machine guns could during WWII."

First, "brandish" is a legal term, and congress has not legislated that "brandishing" is legal.

So, its factually incorrect and misleading at best.


Second, you're claiming that a so called "assault weapon" - a semi-automatic weapon, which fires one single shot per one single trigger pull and requires a separate trigger pull for each separate shot fired - has a higher rate of fire than a ww2 machinegun which begins firing when the trigger is pulled, and continues to fire as long as the trigger is held down.

Again, fatually incorrect, and misleading.

FWIW, yes, ar-15s are protected, I'm quite sure. They are after all, the most popular rifle platform in the US, and well beyond the threshold of being in "common use".

indepat

(20,899 posts)
133. Have seen photos of a person brandishing? an AR-15 inside a crowded department store
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 05:29 PM
Mar 2013

in a manner which would have been most threatening in my eyes. But what the hell do I know, what right do I have to have and express an opinion when there is an expert source of ultimate authority on this board ready to set the record straight?

 

beevul

(12,194 posts)
134. If you're referring...
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 10:13 PM
Mar 2013

If you're referring to photos of someone with a rifle slung across his back, I've seen them as well...but having a rifle slung across ones back, is most definitely not "brandishing", as the law defines it, anywhere in America. If its the presence of the rifle itself, in such a situation, that you find threatening, just say as much, instead of saying someone was "brandishing" it in spite of the fact that a slung rifle is by definition, NOT being brandished.

You have a right to your opinion, of course, and likewise, when you express an opinion that is devoid of fact, or assumes or asserts facts not in evidence, I have equally as much right to point that out.

That's how debate works.

indepat

(20,899 posts)
141. Am I to presume those with an assault rifle slung on their back were members of the well-regulated
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 05:17 PM
Apr 2013

militia?

indepat

(20,899 posts)
146. Certainly no reference to a well regulated militia in the Constitution, much less in the Second
Tue Apr 2, 2013, 01:30 PM
Apr 2013

Amendment.

Response to meegbear (Original post)

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
33. So, what, ban Lee-Enfield (ca 1907) rifles?
Fri Mar 29, 2013, 07:23 PM
Mar 2013

During WWI, many british soldiers could manage 30 rounds in a minute into a 12" plate at 300 meters (the record is 38).



ThoughtCriminal

(14,047 posts)
39. Sure. And you can also find You Tube videos
Fri Mar 29, 2013, 10:16 PM
Mar 2013

of a guy shooting 8 half court basketball hoops in a minute and 30 free throws in a row. There's a reason stuff like that gets posted.

In real combat, it takes something like 50,00 rounds per kill. But they're not shooting at targets - or kindergarten students.

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
40. Actually, that *is* shooting at and hitting a target, 300 meters away.
Fri Mar 29, 2013, 10:42 PM
Mar 2013

Google 'mad minute' to see what can be done with a Lee-Enfield rifle.

It's not something that only a trick shooter can do, anyone can do it with only a little practice. Certainly not beyond the average psychopath bent on causing maximum destruction.

RP's premise, that shooting 150 rounds of ammo in five minutes should be regulated out of existence- can be achieved with *many* different firearms, including 100+ year old bolt-action rifles. SMLE, m1 garrand, m1 carbine, remington 700, remington 750, ruger mini-14, etc etc etc- there are *tons* of rifles capable of such firing, many of which fall into the 'huntin gunz' category.

RP just shows his ignorance about firearms- again.

ThoughtCriminal

(14,047 posts)
41. "Mad Minute" has no relation to real world shooting at people
Fri Mar 29, 2013, 11:17 PM
Mar 2013

Maybe snipers.

People post these videos BECAUSE it is a difficult and remarkable feat and they are showing off the skill. In real world shootings theres stress, panic and targets that move. It's why infantry wants a high rate of fire and lots of ammo in the magazine. If bolt action rifles could equal semi-automatic weapons with 30-round clips, the army wouldn't need them either. Good heavens this stupid and the Rude Pundit is absolutely right about you guys.

High ammunition capacity weapons make it easy for any psycho a "High Score" when they decide to start shooting people. It's incredible. The gun worshipers believe that they NEED semi-automatic weapons with high capacity magazines to protect themselves from zombies, aliens or Obama's Jack-booted Black U.N. Army or something. But when somebody points out that it makes it pretty easy for one of their fellow "Militia" to wipe out classrooms full of children, they seem to think you can match the body count with a few days of target practice with flint locks. They think everybody is Sgt. York.



X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
43. "Mad Minute" was training for soldiers. It's definitely about real world shooting.
Fri Mar 29, 2013, 11:27 PM
Mar 2013

Today, it's a historical novelty, but it demonstrates how easy it is to fire a 100+ year old bolt-action rifle quickly.

Yes, the military wants a high rate of fire- that's why military rifles are select-fire (capable of full-auto or tri-burst). No modern military uses a semi-auto only rifle.

Magazine size has little to nothing to do with lethality. It takes only a few seconds longer to fire three ten round magazines than it does to fire one thirty round magazine. Magazine size restrictions are no magic bullet (pun intended) that will reduce or stop mass shootings. (See VT shooting, where Cho used mostly 10 round magazines to kill 32 people).

ThoughtCriminal

(14,047 posts)
44. Another Free Throw Video?
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 12:34 AM
Mar 2013


Just imagine how many baskets she could make if she could toss one or two balls per second and could hold 30 basket balls at once.

Yes you have to be able to hit a target first. But a real shooting situation is nothing like that. For shooting up a school before the cops arrive, high rate of fire and large capacity. These "Quick clip change" claims based in You Tube Videos at shooting ranges have no relevance to mass shooting situations.

And finally:


http://www.parentsagainstgunviolence.com/tag/high-capacity-magazines/







X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
45. No, reality
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 12:50 AM
Mar 2013

Those weren't pro shooters, just weekend plinkers. I can find ten folks who can shoot just as fast with magazine changes, and my circle of friends isn't super-duper shooters.

That's the reality that magazine ban restriction proponents studiously ignore (or they imagine that a 1-2s magazine change will allow ninjas to attack an active shooter).

Nice graph, but the P-interval is ~40%- aka, weak correlation.

ThoughtCriminal

(14,047 posts)
46. Shooting range - Yawn
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 01:04 AM
Mar 2013

You really that target shooting at a range is in any way comparable to real world shootings? I'm not sure which is more appropriate:


Weak? 33 of 37.

"A seven-year-long study of gunshot victims observed an increasing incidence of gunshot victims who had been shot multiple times. The proportion of gunshot victims with two or more gunshot wounds grew from 26% in the early 80s to 43% by 1990[1]. Over the same span of years, semiautomatic handguns like the Beretta 92 and Glock 17 were replacing the .38 and .357 caliber revolvers that had been the most popular handguns in the United States in the preceding decade. The ammunition capacity in a fully-loaded handgun rose from typically six rounds to typically 15 rounds, and shooters exploited that advantage, shooting their victims multiple times and increasing the likelihood of fatal injury.
Parents Against Gun Violence researchers have identified 37 mass shooting incidents (excluding robberies and armed confrontations) involving more than 6 victims in the United States since 1945. In 35 of 37, the perpetrators carried semiautomatic weapons. In 33 of 37, the perpetrators carried magazines with a capacity greater than 10 rounds. In the recent mass shootings in Tucson, Aurora, and Newtown, the perpetrators sought out inordinately large magazines, including the 100-round drum magazine James Holmes used to shoot 70 people in a movie theater. These mass murderers clearly believe that a higher-capacity magazine will equate to more fatalities.
Opponents of the high-capacity magazine ban will point out that smaller capacity magazines can be rapidly exchanged, and will argue that such a ban will not slow or hinder a mass shooter. Online videos show expert shooters removing an empty magazine and replacing it with a fully loaded magazine with dazzling speed. Let’s remember, though, that these videos are impressive precisely because the reloading skills depicted are remarkably rare—it takes years of practice to achieve such proficiency, and the perpetrators of most mass shootings are young men with limited experience. There are cowboy trick shooters who can operate a single-action revolver or lever-action rifle with astonishing speed—but Annie Oakley doesn’t fit the profile of a mass shooter. We’re not seeking laws to stop Wild Bill; we’re seeking laws to stop Jared Loughner."

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
48. Notice the ones that don't match up (more casualties than ammo or vice versa)
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 01:25 AM
Mar 2013

Take a stats class sometime. Results like that wouldn't support the conclusion you want to make.

If a weekend plinker can pick up the skill of changing magazines quickly, how hard can it be? Do you assume that someone bent on causing maximum destruction can't pick up such a skill? It's muscle memory, not rocket science.

ThoughtCriminal

(14,047 posts)
54. "Take a stats case sometime"
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 01:53 AM
Mar 2013

Try actually reading what the chart is measuring. The chart doesn't show the amount of ammo, it shows the magazine capacity of the weapon (and in some case there is more than one weapon). If you can't even notice that, I'm not sure why you think you know much about statistics.

Needless to say, there are plenty of other variables - number of "targets", opportunities to escape, cover, etc. But in all cases not having to reload and pump a lot of bullets in the victims, add to the death toll.

Now there are a VERY small number of cases where a mass shooter has managed with smaller magazines (4 of 37 cases). but pretty much, they rely on semi-automatics and high capacity magazines to do the job with great efficiency. So where is the evidence that the clip change time for "weekend plinking" is even close to what you get when surrounded by people who are running and screaming? Try unleashing a bunch or injured screaming children at the gun range and see how it affects performance.

And while you're at it, tell me why you need 15 and 30 round magazines. Can't you just reload with your "muscle memory"?



X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
56. Yes, I know, I shorthanded it. Any other nits to pick?
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 01:59 AM
Mar 2013

If there are many other variables, then you'd agree that there's no correlation, much less causation between the two, correct?

Most handguns sold today, and many rifles come with >10 round magazines. More than in the past, when revolvers and fixed magazine rifles were the more popular option. But just as you can't say that 'more crashes today occur with cars with air conditioning, I have a chart to prove it!' is a proof that AC causes crashes, magazine size has little correlation to lethality / number of casualties.

ThoughtCriminal

(14,047 posts)
58. 33 of 37
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 02:23 AM
Mar 2013

Case closed.

Shorthand? - but God help me on a gun thread if I post an image of the wrong bullet of used the term "Clip" when I meant "Magazine".

This reminds me of tobacco lobbyists from the 70's who would - with a carefully trained straight face would say "Correlation?, but that doesn't prove causation". Guess what - we know bullets fired from guns kill and we don't even need lab rats to figure that out.

More bullets fired.
More people hit.
More people hit with multiple bullets.
High capacity magazines preferred by mass killing shooters 33 to 4. Why? They work.

Why do I even bother?


X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
59. 33 of 37 used semi-autos with more than 10 rounds, yes.
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 02:28 AM
Mar 2013

And more cars with AC are involved in accidents now than in the past.

Quick, ban AC! Or is it automatic transmissions?!? Ban 'em!

Straw Man

(6,625 posts)
52. It's not rocket surgery.
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 01:38 AM
Mar 2013
Online videos show expert shooters removing an empty magazine and replacing it with a fully loaded magazine with dazzling speed. Let’s remember, though, that these videos are impressive precisely because the reloading skills depicted are remarkably rare—it takes years of practice to achieve such proficiency, and the perpetrators of most mass shootings are young men with limited experience.

Wrong, wrong, and wrong. There's nothing "dazzling" about a three or four second magazine change. It does not take "years of practice." It takes hours of practice. There's nothing magical about removing a box from a slot and putting another box in.

Is three or four seconds enough time to run a safe distance from an active shooter? Is it enough time to attack and disarm him with no weapon of one's own? What if he's fifty feet away? What if he's fifty yards away? What if he's on top of a tower?

There is far too much misplaced faith in magazine capacity limits.

ThoughtCriminal

(14,047 posts)
55. Again, clip changes timesat the range are not relevant
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 01:57 AM
Mar 2013

And yes in numerous cases, people have escaped from and in at least four mass shooting cases, the shooter has been tackled and disarmed while reloading.

Straw Man

(6,625 posts)
61. That's why I said three or four seconds.
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 02:39 AM
Mar 2013

Not one or two. I'm extending the time to accommodate for "real world" conditions.

And yes in numerous cases, people have escaped from and in at least four mass shooting cases, the shooter has been tackled and disarmed while reloading.

Escaped while shooter was reloading? Tackled and disarmed while reloading? To which cases are you referring? Loughner had already loaded a second magazine by the time he was tackled, but it malfunctioned.

In any case, yes, someone who charges into a crowd firing with a handgun stands a pretty good chance of being tackled, even with a full gun, but a shooter with a rifle can wreak havoc from a comfortable distance with no fear of being physically assaulted by unarmed victims, even while changing magazines.

krispos42

(49,445 posts)
136. He only would have needed to fire 5 rounds per minute.
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 11:14 PM
Mar 2013

That can easily be done with a single-shot rifle or shotgun. Never mind a bolt-action rifle.

And a load of buckshot would be as devastating as several shots from an AR-15.


That sick fucker.

krispos42

(49,445 posts)
138. He shot one kid 11 times
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 06:53 AM
Apr 2013

All of his victims were shot multiple times.

I know you want to believe that an AWB, or a magazine-capacity limit, would have helped the people at Sandy Hook Elementary. I know you want to believe that it would reduce or eliminate future mass shootings. I know you don't want that belief challenged. I know it's inconvenient.

Facts remain facts, though, such as the fact that Connecticut has had an AWB on the books since 1994, either federally or state-level, and that the gun Cumstain used was not an assault weapon.

ThoughtCriminal

(14,047 posts)
139. You know, getting shot multiple times does increase the fatalities
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 04:14 PM
Apr 2013

If you get shot once, you might survive, but multiple gunshot wounds (and we're not talking buckshot) tends to increase the body count.

Speaking of "Inconvenient": Your claim "That can easily be done with a single-shot rifle or shotgun", let's take a look at a real idiot who tried that.

Remember Jim David Adkisson? He's the the nut who decided that the solution to his and the country's problems could best be solved by massacring Democrats and Liberals. His target was a Universalist Church in Knoxville and his weapon was a Remington 48 12-gauge shotgun. He was in, fact probably better off than your single-shot "suggestion" since that model can come with a 4-shell magazine (+1). Adkisson managed to kill 2 people and wound 7, but was tackled by several church members before he could re-load. Bushmaster should mention this in their advertisements.

You know damn well that the AWB was not effective, largely because the gun lobby had watered it down with massive loopholes.

Now, every other gungeoneer has ducked this question so how about you? If you can believe that a single shot rifle or shotgun is just as effective as a high-capacity semiautomatic weapon, why do you need the latter?

krispos42

(49,445 posts)
140. There is something to that, to an extent
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 04:50 PM
Apr 2013

However, a .223 round generates significantly more muzzle energy than a .44 Magnum. And the fucker shot little kids with small bodies.

I have an 8-year-old. I don't even WANT to imagine the damage that would have done to him!

If he had been limited to 2 rounds per victim, instead of 6, (54 rounds total) would the body count be different? Probably not.

The UU church case was different. The intended victims were adults that were able to fight back, and the shooter was using shotshells loaded with #4 birdshot. If he had been using buckshot or solid slugs, the death toll would have been higher. The environment may well have been a close one that enabled people to rush him from various directions.


The AWB was not effective because semi-automatic rifles that fed from detachable magazines were still legal to buy and sell, new and used. It was not "loopholes"; the ban was strongly based on the same ban that California implemented a few years earlier.

What turned a rifle, pistol, or shotgun into an "assault weapon" was secondary features like pistol grips and bayonet lugs and folding/telescoping stocks.

It was not "loopholes". It was like defining pornography... "I'll know it when I see it".

And Feinstein's 2013 ban proposal STILL does not stop the sales of semiautomatic rifles fed from detachable magazines! I've read the text and read the definition of "assault weapon"; in fact, there's a 2-page list of semiautomatic rifles fed from detachable magazines that are specifically exempted from being called an "assault weapon".

And this is before any negotiation on the ban; this is Feinstein's ideal proposal that she submitted to the Senate.

If your concern is banning semi-automatic rifles that feed from detachable magazines, Feinstein's 2013 ban does not achieve that goal. It bans them from having protruding pistol grips, folding or telescoping stocks, or heat shields. But that's it.


Regarding your last question, I don't believe that single-shot is just as effective as a semiautomatic gun fed from a detachable magazine in the general sense. I do believe that in the circumstances of mass shootings where the shooter deliberately picks helpless people that are unable to fight back or escape, the type of gun used is not as relevant. At Newtown, the choice of gun didn't matter very much because of the nature of the surroundings and the victims. He had 5 uninterrupted minutes and totally helpless victims.

I know that if I was ever faced with defending myself, I would want to have with me as many shots as possible because I won't know until it's over how many I will need to use. Hopefully none; I really don't want to have to shoot anybody, even if it's 100% justified self-defense. I don't want that on my soul.

ThoughtCriminal

(14,047 posts)
143. At best, you are making a case for a more comprehensive ban
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 07:56 PM
Apr 2013

on high capacity magazines and semiautomatic rifles with automatic magazines. than Feinstein's bill. Pointing out that it is watered down legislation is not an argument against stricter laws.

Your argument that the type of gun does not matter in the circumstances of mass shootings is refuted by historical evidence. People have more opportunity to escape and fight back when the shooter has a smaller magazine capacity and a lower rate of fire. Knoxville was an example of why the claim that one could get just as high of a body count with single shot weapons is not only logically absurd, but dis-proven by real events. Just like you, a mass murder shooter wants to have as many shots as possible and does not want the extra time and distraction that reloading produces.

krispos42

(49,445 posts)
144. That's what I've been saying for three months now
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 08:45 PM
Apr 2013

This is being pushed by Democrats that have failed as a group to reign in the big banks, big oil, big pharma, the wealthy and their political influence, the Patriot Act, torture, war crimes, etc.


And passing a ban on "assault weapons" gives them the pretense of doing something when they are really doing nothing. trust me, they will be begging you and I for money and waving this piece of useless legislation as proof of how tough they are.


It's a farce. If semi automatic rifles that feed from detachable magazine are the problem, then ban semiautomatic rifles! No exceptions.


But are any of the politicians that are thinking the podium about gun control actually addressing the problem? NO!


The anti gun politicians that your side has been holding up as being serious about creating down on gun violence have been feeding you pablum fur a couple of decades now.


Not a one of them had dared to propose banning all semiautomatic rifles as a class. It's not even on the table. The entire political scene since Newtown has been theater feeding from moral outrage to buttress their own failures in pretty much all other political issues.


As to your other point, you are still talking about making massive changes to try to limit what is, statistically, a very minor problem.

Maximum political effort for minimal return. Yay.




 

CobblePuller

(38 posts)
38. Why do you think that people who haven't done anything illegal....
Fri Mar 29, 2013, 09:48 PM
Mar 2013

are

distrubingly fucked-up
and
ignorant piece(s) of shit




You also seem to be trying to imply there is something inherently bad about that particular caliber, but you don't go into specifics.

I have "thousands of rounds of ammunition" in some 8 different calibers. It's usually much cheaper to buy in bulk, often cases of 1000 rounds. I probably have nearly 12,000 rounds on hand, ranging from .22LR to 8mm Mauser. What's the problem?

aikoaiko

(34,181 posts)
50. The Newtown massacre is a true horror, but this mini rant is ridiculous
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 01:32 AM
Mar 2013

Shooting a round every two seconds is not that difficult with any firearm with magazines.

Those poor children, often shot multiple times, would be just as dead with almost any centerfire handgun round.



Pale Blue Dot

(16,831 posts)
118. Funny then how Lanza had access to that type of weapon
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 11:23 PM
Mar 2013

but did not choose it for his well-planned, child-killing massacre.

aikoaiko

(34,181 posts)
120. Would the shooting be less horrific if he used pistols
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 11:35 PM
Mar 2013

... Like Cho did at VA Tech?

Of course not. The AWB won't do what the RP or supporters think it will do (if reducing gun violence is their goal)

Pale Blue Dot

(16,831 posts)
121. You didn't answer the question.
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 11:38 PM
Mar 2013

The evidence shows that he planned this for months, maybe years. The evidence also shows that he was extremely knowledgeable about guns. If pistols would have been just as effective, why didn't he choose them? I will not respond to you again unless you reply with a coherent answer to this question.

aikoaiko

(34,181 posts)
122. I don't know why he chose what he chose.
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 03:09 AM
Mar 2013

Other mass killers have chosen differently as I mentioned.

As a general rule, rifles > shotguns > pistols in self-defense situations and I'm sure that applies to offensive situations. I have an AR15 for self-defense and recreational reasons.

But even if rifles of any type were not available to Lanza, shooting children multiple times with pistol rounds probably would have led to the same result.

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
128. If... if ... if..
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 09:27 AM
Mar 2013

And then there's the hard REALITY of what actually happened.

Sorry that REALITY is too difficult for you to actually deal with.

Straw Man

(6,625 posts)
53. Oddly enough ...
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 01:51 AM
Mar 2013

... I haven't seen any legislation proposed that would make it illegal to be able to fire 150 rounds of .223 in five minutes. The AWB would leave many semi-auto .223 rifles legally available. It is even possible -- although difficult -- to fire 150 rounds in five minutes from a bolt-action rifle with a detachable magazine, and nobody, but nobody, has suggested outlawing those. Even the UK allows them.

spin

(17,493 posts)
57. I suppose many here think that insulting gun owners is a good idea. ...
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 01:59 AM
Mar 2013

And some do it because it is simply great fun.

But I predict a payback at the polls in the midterm and Presidential elections.

I will also point out that many Democrats own firearms and by insulting gun owners, you may convince them to leave our party.

There have also been a lot of nasty comments made toward Catholics recently on DU. Many Catholics are Democrats.

For some reason I always believed that the Democratic Party was a big tent and we welcome people with different backgrounds and beliefs. I also believed that our party was the more politically correct and was concerned about other's feelings.

Of course you didn't insult gun owners or those who are religious but you did provide a link to the Rude Pundit who must take some pride in being rude. Suppose you encountered a blog with a post that called those who support gun control as disturbingly fucked-up individuals, added an insult because he suspected they were atheistic and finished by saying, "have a Good Friday, you prick." How would you feel.

My point is that insults do little to move the debate forward and to solve the problem of gun violence in our nation. Both sides of this issue call each other names and consequently our divide grows wider. I see no hope of any solution until we all start showing each other a little respect.

Now if you feel a desire to insult me after reading my reply, I won't mind as I have a very thick skin. If your insult is original, I will complement you on your creativeness. However, I will not bother to insult you in return. I enjoy posting here and I don't want to participate in the decay of DU into a cesspool like so many conservative sites.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
63. Meh... I doubt DU is really that important, in the way you're talking about.
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 03:36 AM
Mar 2013

And the Rude Pundit is exactly what it says on the tin. So whaddya expect?

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
65. Every gun owner who supports personal ownership of assault weapons deserves every bit of it.
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 09:34 AM
Mar 2013

You want to own ridiculous fire power? Go ahead. Vote Republican.

jmg257

(11,996 posts)
92. I bet most here wish they didn't have to. But some gunners just seem so fucking dumb.
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 12:26 PM
Mar 2013

And rather selfish besides.

Like all groups, they have their share of assholes.

spin

(17,493 posts)
114. I grew up in the 1950s and 60s. ...
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 04:29 PM
Mar 2013

So I have lived through some many times when our nation was strongly divided.

The Democratic Party which was the party of the common people was able to improve our nation in many ways after long struggles. It was a big tent and welcomed people of all races, all religions and all backgrounds.

Today I fear that we are driving away many religious people and many gun owners. These two groups compose a significant voting block and consequently we have concentrated our power in certain liberal states which are highly populated. This has and will continue to hurt our efforts in the future.

The reason the AWB is failing is because that while we have strong support from the big states on this issue, a lower populated state has the same number of Senators as a much larger state. Democratic Senators from the smaller states fear losing their careers if they support strong gun control, so we lack the votes to pass the AWB in the Senate. Even if the ban did pass, it would never pass in the House which is controlled by Republicans.

Consequently the frustration over the inability to get anywhere on the AWB has raised emotional anger in its supporters. They have been lashing out at gun owners recently and the level of invective
has hardened the resolve of gun owners to resist any attempt to improve our gun laws. Consequently even passing universal background checks which are widely supported by gun owners will now face a hard road.

When I grew up, many Democrats owned firearms and were strong supporters of the Second Amendment. Catholics were largely Democrats. Now I find that the Democratic Party has fewer gun owners and fewer religious people of any denomination. At the same time we are seeking support from Latino immigrants we are insulting Catholicism which is their primary religion.

My suggest is for Democrats to tune down the level of rhetoric to a reasonable level. Insulting others does little to convince them that your views are right.

bread_and_roses

(6,335 posts)
64. OK gun/ammo experts - you've convinced me - ban them all
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 09:17 AM
Mar 2013

Since according to your arguments no possible variant of selective control/limitation will ever ever ever do any good at all, I guess we'll just have to ban them all.

Works for me.

mountain grammy

(26,640 posts)
70. my son showed me his assault weapon, safely locked up in a gun safe
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 10:38 AM
Mar 2013

he assured me my 5 granddaughters are safe. Nancy Lanza was a "responsible" gun owner with a gun safe. As long as these weapons are out there none of our children are safe. I agree with Rude 100%.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
71. Source?
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 10:45 AM
Mar 2013

Early on the police said her guns were just in a box. If they were in a safe, how did he get them? Cutting torch? Or did she give him access?

Mine are in a safe. My 4 year old has NO access to them, and that is how it will remain.

jmg257

(11,996 posts)
94. It seems a Box or a safe, he had access to them. The dumb ass gave him guns
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 12:29 PM
Mar 2013

As gifts, and/or the funds to buy them. Doesn't seem she was too worried at all about him having them.

She fucked up, and will never know how big.

mountain grammy

(26,640 posts)
117. The gun safe was in the kid's room, he was also a "responsible gun owner"
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 10:30 PM
Mar 2013

new updates on this story just in the last day or two.. google it!

Sgent

(5,857 posts)
129. Then pass a ban that will actually work
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 09:49 AM
Mar 2013

ban semi-auto weapons with detachable magazines. Combine it with a required gun buy-back and penalties for having your gun used in a crime or other act of violence.

I am a gun owner, and I oppose the AWB in its current form because it does nothing. An AR-15 is functionally no different than any other detachable magazine rifle, and banning them because of their looks is just stupid with no benefit to eliminating crime.

My idea above will have gun advocate opposition, but at least its an honest attempt to accomplish something useful.

krispos42

(49,445 posts)
135. And taking away his pistol grip would not have interfered with that.
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 11:10 PM
Mar 2013

Thus the failure of ban on "assault weapons". Semiautomatic rifles that feed from detachable magazines would still be perfectly legal to buy and sell, new and used, under Feinstein's proposed 2013 legislation.

This is an objective fact that is not debatable.


Replacing an AR-15 with a Mini-14 would not have saved a single soul.

Cumstain killed 26 people in 5 minutes. 5 per minute. Helpless, trapped children with no place to run, no place to hide, no protection, and unable to fight back. Could he have done that if he had "only" 77 rounds? Instead of 154?

Of course he could have.

How about 38 rounds?

Of course he could have.

How about 10-round magazines?

Of course he could have.

He also could have done that with anything that shoots a self-contained cartridge. Anything. Revolver. Pistol. Shotgun. Bolt-action rifle. Lever-action rifle.


Nothing in proposed legislation would have prevented him from firing 5 rounds a minute into a crowd of helpless children, dammit. He picked his location well, damn him.



Fucker. Cowardly, brutal, fucker.

 

tom2255

(37 posts)
145. Pretty easy to shoot that fast with almost anything.
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 09:31 PM
Apr 2013

Maybe it should have been illegal for him to murder people.

 

slackmaster

(60,567 posts)
148. The piece doesn't suggest anything resembling a workable solution to this non-problem
Tue Apr 2, 2013, 02:54 PM
Apr 2013

The Rude Pundit rarely offers anything constructive.

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