For those that support chained CPI read this

[Harmony Blue]

http://www.cbo.gov/publication/43907

Basically the tight squeeze will be between now and the tail end of 2017. Rapid growth is anticipated, which translates to increased revenues and the GDP will be closely aligned with potential GDP starting sometime next year. And that is the introductory portion of the CBO report.

Bottom line is that chained CPI isn't a good idea, because to tackle this small blip on the road with sweeping changes to Social Security is maddening. Social Security Disability Benefits needs slight tweaks and it can easily pay for itself without having to dip into other portions of the Social Security Trust Fund. Chained CPI is like taking an axe to a tiny paper cut on a pinky finger to "solve" the problem though. As the CBO report shows, our actual GDP growh should finally align with potential GDP based on what is deemed normal for major developed countries within the next decade. In other words, slow growth is normal for mdc's of the world, but at the moment we are a little bit too slow, but not as bad as 2-3 years ago either.

Ironically, the best course to maintain is to do almost nothing. SSI needs a more innovative way to tackle this short bump on the road, and everything else will take care of itself. Continued and consistent growth will ensure Social Security overall is solvent for the forseable future.

And this projection is based on the fact the United States still relatively has high unemployment. If there is a sudden dip of unemployment you can argue most of the doom and gloom will be behind us. The key is that the Democratic party needs to stick with the game plan of jobs programs to address revenue concerns, because that will translate to growth. That is what will strengthen Social Security. Austerity is a trap and they should know better.

[rhett o rick]

1. k&r and thanks for posting

[99Forever]

2. K&R

[dmr]

3. K&R

[michigandem58]

4. Few here support chained CPI

Many here understand politics and compromise.

[truedelphi]

6. and so far as I can tell, among those few

None of them have any good ideas on why it is okay, other than that Obama is okay with it.

Of course, chained CPI cuts are not going to affect Michelle or Barack. Ever.

[michigandem58]

11. Compromise

It's doing some things you don't particularly like, or to use your word, aren't "okay".

[AgingAmerican]

25. Cept they didn't ask for it

n/t

[progressoid]

74. He's using us in the compromise.

I don't see any sacrifice on his part or people of his income level.

[L0oniX]

41. What else would you expect from the worshippers who fawn over pictures.

This is why tv shows like American Idol are bad for politics.

[magical thyme]

7. compromise is one thing

Offering to fix something that's not broken, and in the process hurt a lot of people who have already been severely damaged in order to placate the uber-wealthy is a totally different thing.

Oh, and back to compromise, it's a 2-way street.

[Carolina]

15. I hope you're right about it only being a few

here but from my reading elsewhere, that's not the case.

See: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=452252

I got booted from that thread but some there could benefit from the OP

[muriel_volestrangler]

31. You got booted, after Godwining Obama, and insulting a DUer

I've benefited from that OP; I think the plan is a good idea.

[Carolina]

59. then you're obviously on the wrong thread

the chained CPI is a bad idea. PERIOD

[muriel_volestrangler]

65. That other thread wasn't about chained CPI (nt)

[Carolina]

62. a DUer who was snarky and insulting himself

Some can dish it out but can take it when it's dished back!

I have never alerted on anyone and I have served on many juries here.

[muriel_volestrangler]

67. In what way were they insulting, or snarky?

They didn't 'dish it out' to you. You were just rude to them. And you seem to think that someone's income is a measure of how good a person they are. Which is an appalling attitude for DU.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

27. This is not a compromise, this is more of the same elite policies we have endured for decades

fyi

[humbled_opinion]

36. B.S. Obama is supposed to

Explain the hard problems and the hard solutions Chained CPI is not a solution.... Remember the most environmentally friendly President in history is Richard Nixon..... Stunning Parallels as BHO it seems intends to become the most corporate friendly President in history.

[grahamhgreen]

81. Either your for it or against it. The think tankers are trying to sell this crap like

a traunche of bad mortgages to a sucker country.

[Warren Stupidity]

90. You misspelled capitulation.

[Doctor_J]

96. It's not even capitulation when the Repukes didn't ask for it

but your post gets a DUzy anyway

[NoMoreWarNow]

5. there are so many reasons why chained CPI for SS is a terrible idea

it's still bizarre that our Democratic president proposed it.

[humbled_opinion]

38. Agree +100000

[MrMickeysMom]

8. Supporting chained CPI is UNBEFITTING a Democratic president!

And, I think most persons here KNOW IT! That kind of change is not to believe in. That kind of truth hurts...

I hope everyone at DU is hounding his office as well as your representatives as much as our household is. I don't care if it's not commented on here, but people need to understand a thing or two about this kind of spelunking!

K&R!

[L0oniX]

12. It's also UNBEFITTING of any Democratic person ...here and everywhere else.

If they want to keep worshipping the POTUS then at least they could use some tact. Let us know that they do indeed care about the poor, elderly, disabled and vets first and then talk about how they think the POTUS can do no wrong.

[humbled_opinion]

40. It is up to us to...

Hold the President accountable.

[Carolina]

16. Not everyone here KNOWS IT!

See: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=452252

[sabrina 1]

9. It should be expected that Republicans would jump on any blip to get their hands on this fund.

What should not be expected is that any Democrat would hand them the opportunity.

Excellent article refuting some of the right wing garbage we are seeing even here on DU.

[L0oniX]

10. Consentrate on jobs/getting people working and there will be no problem with SS / Medicare.

Austerity will kill jobs which means more austerity and more job killing. It's fucking stupid and I'll bet that they DO know better. Jobs = revenue ...even a 6th grader could know that.

[FogerRox]

19. AN excelent point one I have been saying for years.

In fact creating 20 million jobs at 36k each thru infrastructure spending would close the same gap that removing the cap does.

[Myrina]

13. I suspect that they don't support Chained CPI

... As much as they feel that nothing POTUS proposes could possibly be bad for the country because he is their "chosen one".

[bvar22]

22. I disagree.

Since the early 90s, there HAS been a well financed faction of the Democratic Party
that want to destroy (privatize) our Social Security.
The DLC made no secret of that major goal of their organization.

This faction of The Democratic party is financed by The RICH & POWERFUL
who despise Social Programs as much as any hard core Republican,
though they are a bit more secretive and deceptive about their ultimate goals.
The Clintons carry water for that wing,
and it looks like our current President does too.
There are former Republicans and well-off "Reagan Democrats" here who believe their class will benefit from destroying the New Deal & Great Society.

The goal with the CPI is NOT to "help" Social Security, or reduce The Deficit.
The goal is to destroy it, and the chained CPI is the first of the thousand cuts intended to bleed it down to a point where they can "drown it in the bathtub."

Now that President Obama has broken the "3rd Rail" TABOO against touching SS,
cuts to Social Security WILL be On-the-Table in every future budget negotiation
until "retirement", like our "Health Care", becomes a Commodity sold to Americans exclusively by For Profit Corporations with Representatives in the Oval Office & Congress no matter which Political party is in power.

[font color=firebrick][center]"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone [/font][/center]
[center][/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center][/font]



You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their rhetoric, promises, or excuses.
[font size=5 color=green]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]

[JDPriestly]

30. +10000

[L0oniX]

32. I turned anti-Clinton back then & remain that way. I blame the Clintons for the DLC & loss of jobs.

[whathehell]

69. Me too...The only thing I liked about his administration was the Family Leave Act

and his ability to fix the deficit and leave a surplus, not that it mattered

to the Repukes since they just blew it on a terrible, unnecessary war

and equally unnecessary tax cuts for their wealthy base.

He did a lot of destructive things, including signing off on NAFTA,

the H-1 B Visa program, and the destruction of Glass-Seagull.

I know he's "charming" and great at "explaining things" and all, but I'll

be damned if I know why he gets so MANY accolades.

[HiPointDem]

71. +1

[Lifelong Protester]

101. +1 gazillion

I couldn't agree more. This is not just tinkering around the edges, it's the foot in the door to let the axe murderer in...to eventually kill the program.

[FourScore]

14. What does the CBO know?

[treestar]

17. Nobody supports it

We just realize that passing a budget means find something the Republicans might think will cut spending.

[Carolina]

20. Then don't propose it!

[treestar]

29. Proposing it doesn't mean you necessarily support it

The idea is to get a budget that will work.

[L0oniX]

34. What's it like living in Bizaro world? If you don't support it then you don't propose it. n/t

[treestar]

37. what is it like in no-compromise world?

We all have to deal with things we don't like every day.

The budget proposal has many progressive things in it, too.

http://www.thepeoplesview.net/2013/04/surprise-presidents-budget-has-more-new.html

[L0oniX]

44. What else would you like from those dependant on SS and Medicare?

[treestar]

45. And how are they going to suffer?

When those in the lowest income brackets are not included?

And they would still get raises for inflation.

How is it that no other item in this budget can be considered, when some of them may help the same people?

[L0oniX]

49. Yea ...because COLA has worked out so well ...and SS is NOT part of the debt.

That's IMO Republican and filthy rich think tank propaganda lie. Jobs = revenue. Austerity = more jobs lost = more austerity = more lost jobs. More jobs = no problem (if any) with SS.

Maybe it would be better to say that if they want to continue to police the world and be at a constant state of war then they need to bring back jobs and create more good jobs ...not make SS pay for it.

[treestar]

54. Why is SS COLA that would only hit the middle class and rich so sacred?

And not the poor (who are not included in this for the zillionth time). What if it were food stamps or school lunches? Or aid to the poor? That is what the Republicans would cut if they could. Cut something that goes to the middle class (and they would still get it and an inflation adjustment, even if you think it's not as much) and suddenly a nuclear bomb goes off.

What is to be cut to get a budget to pass? The arts? Education?

And don't say military as you know the Republicans would not go for it.

[L0oniX]

57. Do you even know any lower class elderly people on SS?

[TheKentuckian]

77. At some point you guys all the way up the top have to get that you can only compromise with them not

for them.

First things first is to get them to say what it is they want, you can't do that for them either.

The opposition doesn't have to credit any concessions, instead they have proven to consistently rail against the pre-negotiated position and get away with doing so no matter how significant the amount of fingerprints they have all over the deal. For crying out loud Rmoney just fucking ran against "Obamacare" with nary a scratch, in and of its self.

What is different in the media environment, opposition tactics, and public perception now? The notion that there is some game afoot that will expose to all the TeaPubliKlan intransigence is silly, you can run film of them crowing about it and hoping the President fails for hour upon hour.you can cite instance after instance of them flipping on positions. They have moved goalpost miles and miles. They oppose bills they submitted or sponsored. You can make John Stewart style arguments with themselves.

[Carolina]

60. treestar, you obviously don't get it

SS and Medicare were supposed to be OFF THE TABLE per Obama, the Grand Betrayer's, campaign.

A chained CPI was repuke idea, and a bad one when Bush proposed it. For Obama to turn around and put it in his budget speaks volumes about his support of the idea.

And if he didn't mean for anything to come of it, why put it in there. Lord help us that we have to rely on repuke intransigence to save us from Obama's budget.

This is not some fucking game!

[Life Long Dem]

76. Not like the Republicans are going to take President Obama's offer

[TiberiusB]

84. How on Earth does that make any sense?

If it is a given that the GOP will never take the offer, then why make it? What was the purpose? Who was the intended audience? How does this do anything but make Obama look bad, a terrible hostage negotiator who actually offers hostages to the kidnappers they don't even have?

Amazingly, this all reminds me of my older brother's advice many years ago when I was a teenager and he was in his late twenties. "Little brother," he said, "whenever something goes wrong and you are worried about how to tell mom, just remember this, always make it sound worse than it is...at first. If, say, you banged up the bumper on the car, start off by reassuring her that, thankfully, everyone is just fine and while things got pretty scary for a bit, you'll take care of everything. Get her good and keyed up. That way, when you reveal that it's just a little cosmetic damage, she'll actually be more relieved than angry."

Remember when the line in the sand was 250k for the fiscal cliff? Then suddenly the idea of raising the ceiling to a million was floated (by Pelosi, who, you may recall, suddenly came out for the Chained CPI recently after opposing it just a year ago), only to come back down to land at 400k...permanently. The White House was glorified by some around here for getting the GOP to break their "no tax increases ever" policy (even though, technically, it was a tax cut, not an increase, as the old tax cut had already expired). All that "compromise" really did was cement a 3+ trillion drain from the treasury over the next decade.
http://crooksandliars.com/jon-perr/obama-bush-tax-cuts-cost-five-times-more-than-new-tax-hikes

We got a few short term perks (emphasis on "short term&quot which are rapidly evaporating in the face of the Sequester.

Regardless, no one could rationally believe that the GOP, regardless of their response to Obama's willingness to slip the knife into the New Deal, would suddenly become completely cooperative for the rest of Obama's term.

Please.

We'll be looking for a new villager to throw into the volcano in a few months, tops.

[Life Long Dem]

94. If they want CCPI

they would have to outrage their base by taking the tax reform offered. Otherwise it's no deal. This will all happen before the 2014 election to stir up the base. I believe Obama promised that tax reform will stay in the budget deal.

[woo me with science]

64. ROFL.

That's my new favorite headline:

"Proposing it doesn't mean you necessarily support it!"

[myrna minx]

99. I actually snorted when I read that.

It's bizarro world. Unbelievable.

[neverforget]

80. I literally laughed out loud at that. I love how we have to discern whether or not

he really means it or if he had his fingers crossed when he proposed it.

[Warren Stupidity]

92. It must be really difficult to be compelled to argue for positions you know are

this absurd.

[Pale Blue Dot]

78. Nobody supports it: We just all believe it's good politics to use the poor and elderly

as bargaining chips. The president is showing courage and honor in doing so.

[drynberg]

93. Sounds pretty Orwellian to me, or just bullshit...

[Warren Stupidity]

91. Horse shit. If you propose x you support x.

[forestpath]

18. K&R

[Rosa Luxemburg]

21. Most people in this country don't know what it is

[Cleita]

24. That's the idea, to push through legislation that they think is above people's heads,

get their punditry to push it on the airwaves and once it becomes obvious that the ordinary citizen has been trimmed of benefits again, it's too late.

[Cleita]

23. K&R

[Laelth]

26. k&r for the truth. Austerity is a bad idea. n/t

-Laelth

[WillyT]

28. K & R !!!

[humbled_opinion]

33. Any Democrat that support CPI

Should immediately switch parties.... become independent but no longer claim that you are part of the party that protects social safety net programs because you aren't.

[L0oniX]

35. They should be kicked out of the Dem party! Wishfull thinking on my part. n/t

[humbled_opinion]

43. What amazes me is that

even on this forum every now and again you have some that have allowed their idolizing worship of the President to cloud their judgement. If they really understood the harm that his legacy will suffer if he acutally approves something as idiotic as chained CPI they would write him a letter and emplore him not to mess with the safety nets.

[L0oniX]

55. What is sick is this crap about how we are supporting defeat of Dems by going against this shit.

The worshippers must be getting desperate.

[Carolina]

66. the worshippers

are blinded by pretty speeches and awesome pictures.

They neglect the history of where this whole idea of a chained CPI originated.

Time and again, by his cabinet choices and advisors, by his early concessions to repuke ideas and by the contrast between his bullshit speeches and actual proposals, Obama proves that he is a corporate tool.

[L0oniX]

73. I voted for a "cool cat" but this is what I got...

...a vicious looking animal that plays dead when progressives object to CPI.

[patrice]

39. There is NO REASON to read that when DU-ers are promoting Democratic DEFEAT. Whatever OP says

is ir-relevant, because DEMOCRATIC DEFEAT WILL GUARANTEE THE CCPI.

Fail.

[L0oniX]

42. WTH? So objecting to CCPI means a guarentee of Dem defeat??? Bizaro fail!

[treestar]

46. Exactly

Hey they want to keep the house in 2014. They think it worked in 2010. We can get the Democrats mad at Obama and they'll stay home!

Now they are moving on to other things;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2672473

[humbled_opinion]

48. Your post is contrarian...

Supporting chained CPI is what will guarantee Democratic defeat so those of use insisting to stop the madness are the ones that are supporting Democrats. Do you see it any other way?

[L0oniX]

50. This ^^^^^^^^^^^

[treestar]

51. As you can see from my link

This is not the only thing they use to try to depress Democrats.

The clear intent is to depress Democrats. Get them to believe there is no use in voting for Democratic candidates.

And they zero in on anything they can find for that purpose. It is the same posters and they do it over and over again. And when you look into the latest outrage, it is never as bad as it sounds. When called on that, they melt down into personal insults.

They also refuse to admit the Republicans have any power at this point.

[L0oniX]

53. "They also refuse to admit the Republicans have any power"

Whatever

[treestar]

56. Yes you do refuse that

and your post proves my point. You think it's funny that they have the House? Hoping they will get more in 2014?

[L0oniX]

58. Mind reading now huh? Oh yea the Dems really took advantage when they had the majority.

[TiberiusB]

86. Except "they" didn't get the base mad at Obama...

Obama did that, all on his own.

And are you going to pretend that linking to a discussion about this administration's abusive treatment of whistleblowers somehow makes your case?

[humbled_opinion]

47. Yeah this is a silly strawman...

try something new.... just because we alll aren't fawning over every single idiotic idea that comes out of a politicians mouth you twist that somehow into championing Democratic defeat.... If you really wanted to support this President you would tell him when he comes up with a stupid idea. Chained CPI is a stupid idea.

[L0oniX]

52. +1 this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ too

[Doctor_J]

97. The president is the one promoting Dem defeat

Fail indeed.

[customerserviceguy]

61. The CBO can make all the wild ass guesses it wants

But one thing is certain. If we have high inflation, the difference from chained CPI will make a bigger difference than if we have low, or essentially non-existent inflation.

What causes high inflation? Republicons say that it's borrowing too much money, but we see that the effects of a recession can nearly completely negate that. In my lifetime, the highest inflation has come from two things: oil price shocks, and a robust economy. The first thing can be nullified with the Keystone pipeline, at least for a goodly number of years, and we had better all hope for the latter thing to occur.

The ultimate salvation of the safety net is a healthy and growing economy. If too many of us are in the safety net, it will burst.

[HiPointDem]

63. and if there are too many leeches at the top, that leaves less to spend on a functional safety net.

[customerserviceguy]

68. True

But the difference is, they own Congress. We have to work with that reality.

The rich don't absolutely need a rip-roaring economy to survive, only to profit. They have an interest in sitting it out as long as it takes to get what they want. They feel they got outplayed in the fiscal cliff deal of December 31st, and they've resolved that it's not going to happen again.

[HiPointDem]

70. you're saying they're on capital strike?

[customerserviceguy]

72. Look at all the cash sitting around in corporate accounts

They're not investing it like they normally would in a recovery.

[HiPointDem]

75. oh, i believe it, just trying to clarify your position.

[Harmony Blue]

82. Actually the CBO has taken into consideration inflation

"Even so, under the fiscal policies embodied in current law, output is expected to remain below its potential (or maximum sustainable) level until 2017 (see figure below). By CBO’s estimates, in the fourth quarter of 2012, real (inflation-adjusted) GDP was about 5½ percent below its potential level. That gap was only modestly smaller than the gap between actual and potential GDP that existed at the end of the recession because the growth of output since then has been only slightly greater than the growth of potential output. With such a large gap between actual and potential GDP persisting for so long, CBO projects that the total loss of output, relative to the economy’s potential, between 2007 and 2017 will be equivalent to nearly half of the output that the United States produced last year. "

I do agree that a growing economy is what is needed. But with that said, even if the Obama administration does nothing, and continues in gridlock with Republicans for the most part... that is okay. Pushing for a jobs bill though is where the focus should be though.

Keystone pipeline can not nullify oil shocks within the next 10-15 years, because just like oil rigs, it takes time to see tangible effects on the local economy. Obviously the pipeline can be built in a shorter time frame than an oil rig. But, this oil will be shipped out of the U.S., so as citizens of the U.S. we will not see many benefits to this pipeline within the first 20 years of its operation. The jobs created will be a tangible effect, but beyond that politicans have mislead the American public about what the keystone pipeline can do to reduce gas prices. In other words, it will not.

[customerserviceguy]

89. Yes, they've made guesses

But they're just that. We will see how accurately they turn out. It all comes down to whether we have a full-fledged recovery, a sputtering one with job numbers boosted only by crap jobs, or a return to recession.

Keystone would have one important immediate effect, and that would be to lower the worldwide price of oil. Right now, there are speculators betting that it won't happen. When their hopes are dashed, then the price level sinks. Look at what's happened to gold prices recently. Generally speaking, gold and oil have moved in near lockstep over the past several decades.

You're dreaming if you think that a jobs bill will get through after all of the acrimony over guns, immigration and the budget takes place later this year. Either compromises can be crafted, or they cannot, and that goes for the spectrum of what happens in Congress all the way through the 2014 elections. We've got a Rethuglican majority in the House that is dug in, no matter how many tears their Speaker weeps. He's not in control any more, the tea partiers figured he let them down late last year on taxes.

[Harmony Blue]

98. These projections are based on educated guesses

that are fairly accurate to an extent. Beyond 2023 though even the CBO says they can only use projected models.

Keystone pipeline unfortunately would not lower the worldwide prices of oil immediately. This is something that is often used by politicans to mislead the public as well.

Even if a jobs bill isn't passed you put the Republicans on record for opposing it...repeatedely. Now? The President of the United States is on record proposing CCPI. The Democrats are on the defensive now, instead of taking the initiatve heading into an election cycle. President Obama has nothing to lose as his second term is secured. So, the Obama administration treading lightly on eggshells to cater to Republicans, or even try to paint the Republicans as unreasonable adults is pointless. That was already done by the American people voting for Obama's second term.

[TiberiusB]

85. "The first thing can be nullified with the Keystone pipeline,"

The Keystone Pipeline is an environmental disaster in the making and all the oil is intended for international markets, not the U.S.

No thank you.

[TekGryphon]

79. No one supports Chained CPI, but some people...

.. love to hate Obama. I've said it elsewhere as have others.

Chained CPI was the turd of an idea that could not be flushed. Republicans kept bringing it up in back-room negotiations and came dangerously close to succeeding.

Obama, a lame duck President, put Chained CPI in a budget that had 0% chance of passing Republican obstruction. He explicitly labeled that Chained CPI as a compromise for the stated goal of getting Republicans to the table to discuss the publicly popular idea of revenue increases.

In doing so, Obama did what no other Democrat could do. He killed Chained CPI. Democrats came out in opposition to it for moral and economic reasons. The Tea Party nuts of the Republican party opposed it out of sheet spite (to their handlers' horror). Even the media came out against it, mainly because they couldn't find anyone to play their false equivalency game and play devils advocate for it.

It was a win/win for Obama. He got to, once again, talk about revenue raises and he got Chained CPI out of the backrooms and into the spotlight to die once and for all.

The only problem is the same problem that's always plagued Obama. That same old crowd of loud shit-kickers refused to hop on the reality train with the rest of us and use the opportunity to share how horrible Chained CPI is and how stupid Republicans are for demanding it. Instead they decided to use this as a chance to push their insane alternate reality narrative - that Obama put Chained CPI in because he hates seniors and wants to appease his bankster allies in Wall Street.

Friggin ridiculous, but utterly predictable.

[TiberiusB]

87. Wow, that's pretty elaborate...

Except you are skipping right on past the fact that now the public has seen Obama, not the GOP, offer to cut SS and the GOP are, absurdly enough, the ones rushing to "save" it. They have also seen a significant number of Democrats in the House and Senate back the President on this issue, including Nancy Pelosi. Let's not forget that it is the Dems who have been chumming it up with Pete Peterson and forming catfood commissions. It is now widely held that Clinton was moving to take a shot at SS before taking a shot at Monica instead. This game has been going on for a while.

Consider this, how many people, conservatively, do you think are taking a moment to pause and consider the brilliant tactical move in putting SS on the chopping block to lure Republicans into opposing it, versus, say, those that are thinking "WTF is a Democrat doing playing games with my retirement?" Remember how silly it seemed to think that the GOP could actually pretend to be the saviors of Medicare? Remember 2010? Or does anyone really believe that a few vocal disappointed liberals on the Intertubes are what cost Dems the House?

[TekGryphon]

88. I bet you gnaw your fingernails in worry about losing the African American vote to Republicans...

... when they tell us that they're the party that freed the slaves and it's all one big misunderstanding.

No one, except the extreme ignorant right and the extreme gullible left, believe that anyone is going to think that Democrats are for cutting SS while Republicans are for saving it. The President clearly stated that Chained CPI was a compromise demanded by John Boehner and you would have to be a ditto-head to get that confused.

And yes, I do remember 2010. I fully expect it to happen again. There is nothing Democrats are better at than snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Here we are with Chained CPI dead-on-arrival and the public chanting for increased revenues, but we're somehow going to find a way to cut our noses off.

[TiberiusB]

109. Except when you talk about SS and Medicare, you are talking about the Senior vote...

...not the minority vote, and the Democrats should worry about that. Enough of the Youth vote stayed home (which is typical in "off season" elections) and enough angry Seniors, who typically are more conservative to begin with, ran to the GOP to bury the Democrats in 2010. The idea that the GOP was on the side of Medicare probably seemed just as laughable then, but that toxic combination was all they needed. Do I think Obama hates Seniors? No. Do I think he has a lot of corporate money and influence swirling around him? You bet. Is it possible that all this CCPI business is an effort to at least appear to be doing what the 1% wants? Maybe, but that doesn't mean liberals shouldn't raise hell anyway. Sitting quietly simply begs for negative outcomes. Consider the Roosevelt quote, "I agree with you, I want to do it, now make me do it." If you want to assume that Obama doesn't mean anything he says about CCPI or wanting to reform "entitlements", then you must believe he is trying to work the other players, namely the 1% and the GOP. Without a vocal base pushing him to the left, he will have nowhere to run should the GOP suddenly say "okay, we'll take it."

[TekGryphon]

110. You have me mistaken. I believe everything Obama says about C-CPI

It's just that I seem to be the one actually listening to what he's said.

He opposes it. He doesn't want it. He's said so for years. He put it in the budget as a forced compromise for John Boehner who insisted on it. He publicly lamented the need to put it in. His administration ensured that before it was put in it was reinforced with protections for lower income seniors.

And then, after the media picked it up and the real discussion began - silence. He's let Chained CPI get ripped to shreds without a peep of discontent.

It takes a convoluted mind to somehow turn that into "Obama supports C-CPI".

[blkmusclmachine]

83. Don't know how often Obama comes on DU. He probably wouldn't read it, anyway.

[madokie]

95. I don't think there is very many here who supports this

understanding the semantics is not supporting

[1StrongBlackMan]

100. No one here ...

supports the CCPI ... not even President Obama.

[Harmony Blue]

102. You will have a hard time proving that argument

because all recent evidence says otherwise.

[1StrongBlackMan]

105. What evidence would that be? n/t

[Harmony Blue]

106. The WH budget proposal that was put out recently

I would assume this is well known by now.

[1StrongBlackMan]

107. You mean the budget proposal ...

that no one believes will go anywhere?

Okay.

[Common Sense Party]

103. Here's the flaw: "Rapid growth is anticipated" Yeah, where have we heard that before?

Government forecasters love to make their proposals sound rosy by predicting wonderful growth. Predicting rapid growth and an end to "doom and gloom" may warm the cockles of one's heart, but it's not all that likely.

[Harmony Blue]

104. CBO estimates are always conservative

and past CBO estimates were conservative, in that the recovery has improved a lot more rapidly the U.S. economy than what they projected three years ago. CBO estimates take into account inflation and high unemployment numbers, so it is indeed a dynamic situation. But more than likely we will see a gradual decline in unemployment numbers assuming several factors come into play. Anyways, the point is even assuming CBO estimates are off, Social Security Trust Fund overall isn't in crisis mode contrary to politicans that state otherwise. Political misdirection for the greater good may have been a hallmark of past politicians like Pericles. But in the modern era political misdirection for the sole purpose of sabotaging what has worked for so long is very vile from my view. SSI needs to be addressed, but CCPI isn't the way to go about it that is for sure.

[Common Sense Party]

108. All of this is a prelude to and a distraction from the discussion of the real problem:

Medicare.

Social Security is a no-brainer to fix. Medicare is a nightmare in waiting. There is no small, easy fix for Medicare.