Prof. Stephen Hawking tells students the universe does not need a God to exist

[Playinghardball]

Former Cambridge Professor Stephen Hawking told students at Caltech this week that, contrary to the feelings of many God enthusiasts, the universe did not require a deity to create, nor does it require one to continue existing.

Though his speech was supposed to be free of recording devices, some sly student sneaked in with a digital audio recorder and smuggled Hawking’s speech out for public consumption (embedded below). During his talk, he cited M-Theory — a wide-ranging and as-yet-incomplete explanation of the universe that attempts to unite the factions within String Theory — as the only workable theory going forward that can explain the true nature of the cosmos.

M-Theory suggests that the multi-dimensional “strings” of the universe are bound together by a strange material sometimes called membranes, but also known by other names. It suggests that mater, space, time and every possible history exists simultaneously across dimensional planes that were created out of nothing at the moment of the Big Bang some 13.8 billion years ago. Only in very few of these dimensions can a species like humanity come into being.

“The problem of what happens at the beginning of time is a bit like the question of what happened at the edge of the world when people thought the world was flat,” he said. “If the world’s a flat plate with the sea pouring over the edge — I have tested this experimentally. I have been around the world, and I have not fallen off.”

He added that such a question can pose problems for people who look to imagined deities for the answers they seek. “What was God doing before the divine creation?” Hawking asked. “Was he preparing hell for people who asked such questions?”

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/18/prof-stephen-hawking-tells-students-the-universe-does-not-need-a-god-to-exist/

[patrice]

1. All definitions of the identity, one way or the other, of a null set, are non-rational. nt

[eomer]

2. “What was God doing before the divine creation?”

Procrastinating.

Duh.

[LiberalFighter]

32. It probably doesn't dawn on most people on the existence before God.

How does anyone explain the creation of God. If God had to be created first for there to be a god then what created god? If god was created doesn't that mean that god is not all powerful?

[Ikonoklast]

40. Bowling.

It's what all slackers do in the afternoons while all of of Creation is waiting to be Created.


I never saw one bit of proof that God isn't a lazy jerkoff most of the time, while he isn't smiting or giving someone the plague or something.

[longship]

3. I love that guy!

Who was Hawking quoting here?

“What was God doing before the divine creation?” Hawking asked. “Was he preparing hell for people who asked such questions?”

I recognize it from somewhere, but I cannot recall it...

Nevermind, it apparently was Augustine of Hippo who is quoted to have said that. Google really is your friend.

[Arugula Latte]

4. Even if an invisible omnipotent deity actually existed, it sure is off its game lately ...

[neverforget]

9. I love that graph!

[mindwalker_i]

29. I thought I saw Mohammad on toast the other day

But I figured if I showed it off, there would be...

Trouble.

[LiberalFighter]

33. Too many witnesses? Written history instead of oral?

[Hissyspit]

5. Is this supposed to be controversial?

[onehandle]

6. Unless it does.

“An atheist has to know a lot more than I know. An atheist is someone who knows there is no god. By some definitions atheism is very stupid.”

- Carl Sagan

[Skittles]

10. he was Agnostic

he did not profess to believe in the magic man in the sky

[onehandle]

11. Everyone is Agnostic. nt

[Skittles]

12. nope

heck no

[onehandle]

15. Then show me your God.

You Jesus freaks bug the shit out of me.


...heh.

[Skittles]

18. ?

I don't give a crap one way of the other - if people need that stuff to live, so be it - just keep it out of politics!

[Rex]

20. No religion or corporations in my government, thanks!

No government or religion in my bedroom, thanks! SUB ZERO - FIGHT!!!

[Skittles]

22. that's really what it's all about, Rex

if they stayed out of our government and our bedrooms we could tolerate them easier

[Rex]

23. You know it!!

Sadly we watched them all creep their way into our personal lives. It is like Push technology for Real Life. We never asked for it.

[onehandle]

25. I keed... I keed...

Yes. Let people have faith in whatever is or is not... to them.

Keep it out of our laws.

[Warren Stupidity]

39. Sagan made a mistake.

it happens. Atheism is the lack of belief in gods, not the belief that there are no gods.

[Ikonoklast]

41. This is closer to correct than what Sagan stated.

Ther may in fact be as many gods as there are particles in the Universe, I just don't beleive in any of them.

[t16hilos]

7. And I'll bet some of the supporters of this theory scorn deists for 'magical thinking'

&quot M-Theory) suggests that matter, space, time and every possible history exists simultaneously across dimensional planes that were created out of nothing..."

[W_HAMILTON]

27. The key word being "theory"

One definition of "theory" is "a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural and subject to experimentation, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact."

A theory is not an indisputable, absolute fact. If science turns up evidence that shows this theory is incorrect, this theory will be discarded and others will be evaluated until the truth is known.

You can't say the same for most "deists" and their "magical thinking." Odds are you won't see the pope turn away from his religion because the text that his belief is founded upon has been proven to have factually inaccurate parts; however, if the theory Hawking was referring to turns out to be proven wrong, I'd imagine he would no longer support that theory and instead would seek out other explanations for how our existence came into being.

[Rex]

8. He is correct.

And of course, God does not need the universe to exist either. Both are true.

[onehandle]

13. Exactly right. nt

[WinkyDink]

14. What existed before the Big Bang? What's outside the Universe?

[Humanist_Activist]

16. Most accurate answer is "we don't know", the most likely answer is nothing...

or lack of reality. Its hard to conceptionalize, but imagine something less than a total vacuum in space, not just a lack of matter or energy, but a lack of 4 dimensions, no time, no space, quite literally, nothing.

Then realize that is also more likely wrong, or better to say that our conception of nothing is wrong.

[BlueJazz]

17. More Universe Multi-Universe

[Rex]

19. Something else. Nothing.

Or the complete opposite.

[killbotfactory]

21. Probably nothing, which turns out to be inherently unstable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_energy

http://astrosociety.org/pubs/mercury/31_02/nothing.html

Even if this is proven false, attributing the creation of the universe to a deity as imagined by ancient middle eastern societies, long before the age of science and reason came about, seems a bit illogical.

[Warren DeMontague]

24. Who created "God"?

Apparently everything "needs" a creator except the creator, who gets a magic exemption from that rule.

[t16hilos]

26. No exemption to 'magical thinking' either way

Same two possibilities apply in either case:

(1) The Universe/Creator has existed forever in some form or endless cycles of forms and, thus, is beyond time or

(2) At one time there was nothing, and the next instant: hello Universe/Creator.

[Warren DeMontague]

28. Except, falling back on a "creator" doesn't solve any logical problems.

So why bother.

If one looks at the history of man's scientific understanding of the Universe, things that were originally attributed to mystical causes ended up being discovered as a part of, yes, natural processes. My personal feeling is that the universe is, likewise, a produce of natural processes.

Secondly, "nothing" doesn't mean anything in terms of quantum physics. In quantum physics stuff is popping into and out of existence all the time, and "nothing" isn't really nothing. So the idea that everything must have a prime cause, is not borne out by experience.

[cpwm17]

31. 'Nothing' is impossible since any existence had to arise through some existing physics.

This physics isn't 'nothing'; and this physics isn't magic, it's just a brute fact of existence.

The Big Bang didn't come from nothing, and it's almost guaranteed that there are innumerable universes beyond our own that arose through the same basic physics. Each universe has its own properties, and since there are so many (or infinite) universes with various properties, the possible is almost guaranteed to happen an innumerable number of times. Some universe's will happen to have the right properties for life since there are so many universes. No magical sky being is required.

Since our existence is obviously possible, our existence is almost guaranteed.

A god explanation for our Universe's existence just passes the buck to another non-answer. Where did this god come from and how does this god get its powers? How does this god poof things into existence? Saying a god did it is the same as saying it was done by magic.

Claiming that this magical being has always been here does not give an explanation on how it got here. Forever cannot create an invisible superpower.

[t16hilos]

34. Counterpoint to infinity?

But a deist might argue:

'Forever' can create an invisible superpower as easily as 'forever' can 'guarantee that there are innumerable universes beyond our own that arose through the same basic physics'. A prior universe that had been annihilated by a successor universe could never be proven to have existed.

There may be no creative Force or Entity (for lack of a better term, called 'God') involved in the existence of reality as we know it. Then, again, there may be. Stephen Hawking doesn't know, nor did Albert Einstein, nor does anyone else. At that point, we move beyond the realm of physics into metaphysics,(or philosophy, religion, etc).

I just think that civility, tolerance and a dash of humility is in order on both sides of the debate when this topic is broached (and which I have seen all too often to be lacking in today's polarized and adversarial public culture). --but not, I am happy to note, in this discussion.

[cpwm17]

35. Discussions about the existence of our Universe can be fun.

They are for me.

Some people take it too seriously. According to my parents and sisters, anyone that doesn't believe in their version of a god deserves to be infinitely punished for eternity. Well that certainly saps the fun out of such discussions.

God, as popularly defined, is impossible; plus there would be obvious evidence for any gods – none exists. So we just go back to the default position where non-belief is appropriate.

[Warren Stupidity]

38. what existed before god?

"god" as an answer to what existed before the universe answers nothing.

[treestar]

30. I don't know, it is confusing

To think of things at this level. Why does the universe exist? It would be beyond Mr. Hawking's knowledge. When you think of it from that view, there is something we cannot understand at work. God is a good explanation.

[FarCenter]

36. Were there a cosmological god, it's extraordinarily unlikely that he'd screw around with humans

A god capable of creating the universe would have better things to do.

[Union Scribe]

37. Is there such a thing as "before" outside of time?

In any case, this isn't the right forum for this.