So . . . if you're 15 you can buy One Step Plan B, but if you're 14 years 11 months, you can't?

[Stinky The Clown]

Is this rule medically based or is it te result of some religious fetishism.

If it is medically based, then . . . . . okay, whatever.

If it is the result of a religious belief, then it has NO PLACE in drug regulation.

If it is the result of some government functionary caving to religious pressure, then we have a structural problem in our government.

[Demit]

1. Well, if you can't draw the line somewhere, you're saying there shouldn't be a line at all.

Are you?

[Stinky The Clown]

3. What is the purpose of the line?

If there is a medical basis, then, yes, there should be a line. If there is no medical reason, then, no. No line.

Robitussin AC has limits. Smith Brothers Cough Drops have none. See how that works?

[Recursion]

7. If you aren't menstruating yet it's contraindicated

I have no idea if that was the actual purpose of the people who drew the line at 15, but that is a legitimate concern.

[ejpoeta]

10. my daughter is 14. she has been menstruating for 2 years

[Recursion]

15. Like I said downthread, age limits are always arbitrary and have problems

The law can be a blunt instrument.

[JaneyVee]

49. There's no age limit to buy condoms. Plus, how many 15yr olds have state issued ID?

[HappyMe]

50. I had one.

I also had a student card for the city bus and a learner's permit.

[magellan]

17. Is there a line for people like these?

40-year-old on trial for incest - the victim first gave birth at 15

11-Year-Old Having Baby After Repeated Rapes by Man, 21

Any menstruating girl can become pregnant, and most start well before 15.

[LWolf]

28. Isn't that what the court ruling said?

The ruling that will now have to be appealed because this new policy draws a line?

[morningfog]

68. That is the point. There should be no line on this.

[ebbie15644]

2. How many 15 year olds have ID?

[Stinky The Clown]

6. If there were no limit, no need for ID.

If there is an age limit, then ID is needed.

[mercuryblues]

11. that i a good question

I know schools issue ID badges, but I don't think there is a DOB on them. Many kids also have driver permits. All they will do is get one of their older friends with an ID to buy it for them.

[MannyGoldstein]

4. I believe that a federal court ordered the Obama admin to make it available to all ages

because there's no health issue.

So they dropped it fro 17 to 15, but are still not complying with the court.

[Stinky The Clown]

8. Well now, that's pretty simple.

Why aren't they complying is the obvious follow-up question, now isn't it?

[MannyGoldstein]

13. God is telling them that 14-year-olds who have sex should have babies

Or that Fox News will say mean things if they comply.

[Stinky The Clown]

18. Indeed. That is a historically validated deterrent to many necessary actions.

[CTyankee]

26. Now THAT makes sense, doesn't it?

[winter is coming]

22. Because they don't want to be accused of making abortion easy for

11-year-olds. They'd rather drag their feet and be "forced" to do it, even though a judge has already struck down an age limit. Also, as long as there's an age limit, pharmacies have an excuse to keep Plan B out of sight behind the counter. It wouldn't surprise me if some yahoos will simply claim to be "out" of Plan B if they feel the person asking for it shouldn't have it.

[Recursion]

5. Levonorgestrel is contraindicated in prepubescents

And that leaves us with an age limit, and age limits are always arbitrary and produce stupid edge cases.

[Stinky The Clown]

9. What's the contraindication?

Adverse developmental effects?

Just asking . . . .

[Recursion]

14. Developmental effects, I think? This is from way back in grad school

Something about folate uptake.

[winter is coming]

23. Why would prepubescents buy it?

If you need Plan B, you're not prepubescent.

[Capt. Obvious]

12. This will lead to kids hanging around outside drug stores

and approaching adults to score them some Plan B

[Stinky The Clown]

20. I can actually see 15 year old boys buying it for the 13 year old girl friends

[d_r]

16. they did research

to determine that 15 year olds were able to follow the directions and use as directed. I don't know if that means they researched younger ages or not, but I do know that they lowered it from 17 to 15 because 15 year olds were able to follow the directions in the research.

[Stinky The Clown]

19. That sounds like a really whiney reason. Plus it doesn't sound poll tested.

(Not carping at you. Carping at the exceuse.)

[magellan]

21. I'd suggest their research is bunk

The directions are: take one pill within 72 hours (3 days) of unprotected sex or contraceptive failure. There's only one pill in the package. Nothing difficult to understand about that.

[MattBaggins]

29. Shit half of adults are too stupid to take it as directed

Kids get scared and take it a month or so later.

Kids will take it before sex thinking it will protect them.

How many adults even know how long Plan B is effective for?

Look at all the people who still want to claim that Plan B prevents implantation. The International Federation of Gynecology and Obstetrics does not recommend this claim.

If most adults are clueless about Plan B, why would 14 year olds be any better?

[winter is coming]

32. And yet, there's no age restriction on Tylenol.

It's far easier for someone to mess up their liver by not understanding that it's a Bad Idea to take more than one med containing acetaminophen at a time than it is for them to screw up Plan B.

[gollygee]

37. Then why are adults allowed to buy it?

14-year-olds can read. They can get pregnant. They might need it. It should be available.

[MattBaggins]

48. It should absolutely be available

with the advice of a doctor.

[StrayKat]

24. It might not be either medical or religious.

Last edited Wed May 1, 2013, 09:35 AM - Edit history (1)

It might be psychological. Should 11, 12, 13, or 14 year old victims of rape or incest be able to quietly receive post-coital contraception without telling anyone? Perhaps they should need to go to a parent, teacher, counselor, doctor, pharmacist, or someone. This might be in their own interest to have an adult they trust try to correct the situation as well as to have someone to talk to about a very scary situation.

[gollygee]

35. Plan B doesn't cause an abortion

quiet or otherwise.

[StrayKat]

41. You're right.

I was using it in a general sense, but language matters, especially on what for some is such a loaded word. I changed the original post.

[RebelOne]

56. But the religious right claims it does. n/t

[StrayKat]

58. I'm not on the religious right...or left. n/t

[rightsideout]

25. If it is a religious belief then a 14 year - 11 month old is actually 15 years old - 8 months.

So a 15-year old is really a 14 year old - 3 month old.

[stevenleser]

27. LOL, well played! nt

[rightsideout]

30. Ooops, I think my math is wrong

If you are 15 you are really 15 years - 9 months old by religious standards

[peace13]

34. It gets better...

If you are 15 you are in your 16th year plus nine months!

On my 29th birthday I was reminded that I was in my 30th year. That was a rude awakening! : )

[4Q2u2]

31. Sad that we have to

Debate the merits of the Plan B age restrictions. Too bad we do such a lousy job protecting our children, specially our young girls and woman. That is a national shame.

[peace13]

33. Oh that every young girl who finds herself needing plan B...

has someone to reach out to , be it a sister, mother, aunt, grandma who will be able to help her. Is it clear, can males buy plan B and is there an age restriction on them?

[onpatrol98]

40. Brilliant...

So, an enterprising adult or teenager could scoop up several and make a bit of profit by charging an extra dollar. Straw purchasers....for a few extra dollars. Why?

In small towns, I'm sure there are plenty of teenagers who want to pick this up off the shelf and hand it to the cashier who is actually the nosy neighbor that lives next door. After all, there's no need for privacy. This is the same as buying Tylenol, right?

So, we'll have "straw" buyers. In larger areas, no problem, perhaps. In small communities, I anticipate even with access...it will seem like no access for some.

There have been ways of getting condoms for free for years...and yet...the vast majority of unplanned pregnancies do not come from incest or rape. They come from casual unprotected sex. Heck, I actually know a teen who got pregnant. She had no problems telling us why? Her boyfriend didn't like wearing condoms. He said it didn't feel right. Apparently, a pregnant girlfriend, did feel right. She didn't know how to force him, too. Her words, not mine. It didn't seem fair.

(Now, I realize there are people who have allergies, etc. But, again that isn't the norm. It's the exception)

Was a condom, Plan A? I don't know what the answer is. But, now I'm wondering, what is Plan C?

[StrayKat]

45. .

. . .the vast majority of unplanned pregnancies do not come from incest or rape.

I didn't know the statistics myself, but in looking it up it seems that's not true for teens when statutory is included.

Adult, postschool men father two thirds of the infants born to school-age mothers and average 4.2 years older than the senior-high mothers and 6.7 years older than the junior-high mothers.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1380562/

Also, precocious sexuality is often preceded by abuse from adults at some point.

A 1992 Washington state study of 535 adolescent mothers found that 62% of the mothers had a history of being raped or sexually molested by men whose ages averaged 27 years. This study found that, compared with nonabused mothers, abused adolescent mothers initiated sex earlier, had sex with much older partners, and engaged in riskier, more frequent, and promiscuous sex. Studies by the Population Reference Bureau and the National Center for Health Statistics found that about two-thirds of children born to teenage girls in the United States are fathered by adult men age 20 or older.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage_pregnancy

[gollygee]

36. Plan B does not cause an abortion

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/02/22/172595689/morning-after-pills-dont-cause-abortion-studies-say

It is really frustrating to hear people talk about it like it's about abortion.


(edit: I say this to some of the people in the thread, but not to the OP.)

[LanternWaste]

38. Every limit, every rule, every law and even every exception is predicated on an arbitrary judgment..

Every limit, every rule, every law and even every exception is predicated on an arbitrary judgment... which is one reason why the age of consent in most states is eighteen rather than six. Medically based? No... not quite.

Although I imagine many people would like to apply religious fetishism to the age of consent to better rationalize their libertine desires without consequence. Bless their little hearts.

[Myrina]

39. While I support and approve OTC Plan B ...

... as the mother of a female-type-person, I would HOPE LIKE HELL that if she had needed access to it at 14, she would have come to me because whatever happened to put her in that situation (force, ignorance, "first love", etc) calls for some adult perspective & discussion.

She's now 22 and did use it once, her sophomore year in college. She called me beforehand, explained what happened (she'd been with her BF for 1.5 yrs at that time) and asked if I thought she should seek it out and where she might be able to get it.

[onpatrol98]

42. Good relationship...

It sounds like you have a good relationship with your daughter. That is awesome! And, it sounds like your daughter was very mature.

[Myrina]

43. We didn't always ...

.... thanks, though. She lived with her dad from ages 12-18 because we fought like scorpions in a bottle until I couldn't take it anymore. Living under his thumb and then going off to college opened her eyes to the fact that 'mom' wasn't evil incarnate. It's been a hard battle - 2 steps forward, 1 step back.

[gollygee]

44. I would hope mine did too

But if they didn't, I wouldn't want this kept from them.

[StrayKat]

46. Right.

But, is requiring parent, guardian, counselor, or any adult permission or having to go through a pharmacist the same as denying the treatment.

[gollygee]

47. It might not be in theory

but, depending on the kid and her relationship with the adults in her life, it might be in practice.

[Stinky The Clown]

53. This^^^^^^

I absolutely agree.

[StrayKat]

55. I understand what you're saying.

But, considering it could go either way, why not try the plan that might catch some of this? Every case where a child under 15 gets pregnant needs more attention.

[gollygee]

60. I'd try the plan

where fewer kids are having babies they don't want. Every case where a kid under 15 gets pregnant is a case where she could be the victim of incest and be unable to get help from a parent, too. And desperately afraid of the pregnancy being found out. Kids that age commit suicide over stuff like this.

[StrayKat]

62. Parental consent isn't necessarily being advocated here.

I'm aware that rape and incest are often at play in these cases (as I said upthread). These girls sometimes also harm themselves over the rape and incest. In any case, the rape and incest is harmful in itself as are the issues of possible neglect or abuse and poor sex education that can lead to pregnancy in girls that young. Over-the-counter availability of plan B for those younger than 15 helps hide the problem, and offers not even the possibility of getting extra support.

Having to get the meds through a pharmacist (even without parent consent or prescription) reduces the FDA concern about young girls following instructions correctly since a pharmacist can verbally explain the directions and answer some questions. It's also an opportunity for the pharmacist to give the girl (or guy) contact info for a teen clinic, counselor, or advise them on other prophylactics. The pharmacy also keeps records of these purchases so that should evidence for CPS or court proceedings ever be needed, there's something to back up the claims.

[gollygee]

63. They always have the possibility of extra support

If they seek it out. If they're afraid to ask an adult for help, they're just SOL then? Do you remember being that age? They're not going to talk to the pharmacist. It isn't safe for someone who hasn't hit puberty, but nobody who hasn't hit puberty has any reason to seek it out. It isn't a recreational drug. And anyone in a bad enough situation to need it is an unlikely candidate to talk to a pharmacist to get it.

[StrayKat]

64. Your solution treats the symptom and ignores the problem.

[gollygee]

65. The symptom is what the drug is made for

and the symptom is the thing that needs immediate attention, or else you have the riskier options of abortion or birth.

[StrayKat]

69. And, not addressing the cause means this is allowed to become a pattern.

The abuse is urgent and damaging too.

[gollygee]

70. But that isn't what the drug is for

There are other things that are supposed to help with that (ie mandatory reporter laws), but this drug is not designed to catch child abusers.

[Sheepshank]

51. If a 14, 13, 12 year old is getting PG

there is likely more parental involvment needed that just getting a morning after pill. I have no problem with parental involvement with a kid who is likely being pressured into having sex at such a vunerable age. While some parents suck....most don't and should be permitted to be involved with their teen.


PS>>>>>And perhpas I am wrong, the issue is acceccability to these BCP with parental knowledge. 15 is the line where a kid can get this without parents knowing. Lines, as arbitrary as they are, I think need to exists in this case.

[kestrel91316]

52. Gotta draw that line somewhere. Children shouldn't have access to it.

VERY few girls under 15 are getting pregnant in the US, and if they DID have unprotected sex at that age, they probably don't have the available money OR common sense to buy Plan B anyway. I suspect that they looked at underage pregnancy statistics to arrive at that age.

[ellenfl]

54. and if you're 20 years, eleven months and 28 days, you can't drink. what's your point? eom

[Orsino]

57. See, if you're 14 and 11 months...

...your body has ways of shutting that whole thing down.

[Iggo]

59. What is the religious significance of age 15?

[DevonRex]

67. There isn't any that I've ever heard.

I was raised fundamentalist so I probably would have heard.

[DCBob]

61. On a related topic.. some idiot on RW talk radio said..

if a girl is buying these pills then that means they could have had illegal sex since the age of consent is over 15 in many states which means the store clerk could be held responsible. Clearly that person doesnt even understand the basics of the law.

[DevonRex]

66. In some states you can drive at 15 so you have ID.

Maybe it was as simple as that. I do wonder about some medical issues. Like I'm sure it's better to be on birth control than to do this after the fact. But would there be any harm if this was used several times, for example? And if not, does that hold true even if the time period was reduced to a couple of years?

I ask because things have changed a lot since I've had to worry about stuff like this. I had my kids and had my tubes tied and didn't think about it again. I made sure my boys and their girlfriends went to Planned Parenthood or her doctor's office for planning until I knew they were mature enough to think of everything first. But I didn't pry about the details.

Now I have a new batch of nieces to think about. Their parents are fundies. So I should probably get some answers.