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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWrong House Cleared Of All Belongings In Foreclosure Error
One lady who came home from vacation found her home was EMPTY of all its contents. A house clearing moving company cleared the wrong house of it contents and sent it to the dump when they went to the wrong address to clean out a foreclosed home. The home next door was the one to be cleaned.
Either the bank or clearing company had the wrong address or went to the wrong place. This news piece was reported on a local Denver TV station on local news.
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Hassin Bin Sober
(26,328 posts)Send the bill to the bank.
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)She cried about her daughter's baby pictures and having to tell her all her clothes and toys were gone. Just gone.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)and take the bank to the cleaners
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)a Ming vase would have looked just perfect in that house! Sure, it was empty, but the ambiance!
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,328 posts)
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)Don't knows how I missed it the first time. 
Matariki
(18,775 posts)I hope she sues the f*ck out of that bank. What an incredible violation.
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)that subcontracts its work to local companies. The news report said it has happened in several states where the subcons have gotten the wrong address. Once the stuff is at the dump there's nothing that can be done.
Weird thing is, the reporter said that on the national corp's website they even mention that it happens and list dates and places and say that they wind up paying out because they can't defend against the wrong house being emptied. I thought that was very, very odd. Unless their aim is to always put responsibility onto the subcontractors and say that they're the ones who screw up, rather than they put the incorrect addresses on forms or don't properly verify bank foreclosure records. For instance, addresses change when a property is sold and subdivided so what a property was known as in the beginning of a transaction is not what it will be known as after it has been improved and the loan has been defaulted on.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)her Picasso collection, Babe Ruth's original uniform and her sheet of "Inverted Jenny" postage stamps should all be listed in her claim against the bank 
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)
still_one
(92,190 posts)
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)But we all know nothing will happen.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Unless people are punished in the appropriate manner for things like this then it won't change, they'll keep right on doing it.
As far as the homeowner is concerned it was a burglary.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)I guess I should have started a step back.
Yes, if you bump into me while absent mindedly walking down a sidewalk it is, to me, no different than a battery.
However, your point is that intent - as in "entry into the dwelling of another with the intent to commit a crime therein" - should be eliminated as an element of burglary. Is that correct?
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)There are likely irreplaceable mementos and keepsakes that are gone forever.
And we all know there will be no significant punishments against those who did this and there wouldn't be if it was your home they stripped of everything either.
This wasn't an absentminded bump on the street, it was a deliberate act.
meaculpa2011
(918 posts)compensated. Mistakes happen. In the case of a deliberate burglary, I would want the criminal punished. Unless I had insurance I wouldn't be compensated.
kcr
(15,317 posts)It isn't just a whoopsie mistake. We should be secure in our homes. We shouldn't have to live in fear that a bank is going to make a mistake and we're going to come home and find everything we own, everything we've worked hard for -some of those things irreplaceable-e gone. In my opinion a crime was committed, and if there aren't laws on the books to throw at them, there damn well should be.
Matariki
(18,775 posts)
NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)
The company is going to blame the bank, the bank the company, and the insurance company is going to refuse to pay and put it on both bank and company. You'll spend the next few years destitute until a court MAYBE sorts it out and awards you half of the actual damages, if even that.
TheMadMonk
(6,187 posts)A dead child's artwork? 3 generations of family photos? Personal documents?
What of the Doctoral thesis on the computer you damned well know did not go to the dump? Given just how cowboy this outfit (and the subbies they hire) are, what is the bet that a LOT of the removed items "find new homes".
Something punitive has to happen, because right now it goes something like this:
"Hello Crudential. We fucked up again. Send a claim form around to #27 Suxtobeu St."
And Crudential, looking out for the very best interests of its shareholders, questions every item, asks for reciepts, demands proof that every last claimed item exist, and in the end the owner gets a fraction of the money needed to replace those items which can be replaced.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)If you want to know why we are becoming a police state, take a good look at yourself.
First, there are a lot of legal remedies here, and the homeowner is going to be compensated. What's fascinating about the vindictive, punitive, authoritarian mindset such as yours is that the focus is not on compensation to the victim of what is, at bottom, a mistake, but on punishment of the "wrongdoers" which, ultimately, does no good for anyone but satisfies a desire that is always looking for an excuse to see people harmed instead of healed.
Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)Cheers!
Mugu
(2,887 posts)demwing
(16,916 posts)It's all Fumesucker's fault for wanting punitive measure taken against criminally negligent acts.
Here I thought it was caused by institutional abuses of authority such as warrantless wire taps, drones spying on Americans, extrajudicial targeting and killing of U.S. citizens, and indefinite military detentions of U.S. citizens.
Silly me.
Gidney N Cloyd
(19,835 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)and then some....It's not like they *EVER* show leniency to the rest of regular folks when there is a mistake on OUR end or mitigating circumstances, etc. etc...When it's on their side, corporations ALWAYS wield the full might of the law and their legal firms on individuals, even for the pettiest of disputes...
If this makes me "vindictive and punitive", so be it....
demwing
(16,916 posts)the people storm the mother-fricking castles with pitchforks and torches. Your response is absolutely normal, given the ridiculous circumstances with which we are supposed to deal.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)that have instance after instance of this happening every year, nationwide. Her attorney has 6 cases against this company for the same thing.
Jeesh, this is EXACTLY the kind of company and problem for which we need consumer protections, licensing, regulations, and fines in place.
TheMadMonk
(6,187 posts)It is almost a statistical certainty that further criminal acts will have occured in the form of individual removalists helping themselves to the better or more quirky items they remove.
Yes the home owner will be compensated eventually, but that compensation won't begin to cover replacement of those items that are replaceable. And "sux to be you" on the irreplaceable. Here have an empty photo album and a nice brass urn.
In the meantime that owner is living out of the suitcases they took on holidays with them, is going to work in a Hawian shirt and Bermuda shorts, has no funiture or bedding and is dealing with 3 screaming kids who want their Lego right NOW!
The home owner, if they are insured themselves, better damned well be up to date with their valuations and comprehensive in their coverage, because London to a housebrick, any insurer picking up the tab will not pay one red cent more than the homeowner covered themselves for. If they ever held coverage, but let it lapse, that too might well be used to determine (and further limit) compensation.
PUNITIVE action needs to be taken here, because it is quite clear that despite the same mistake happening over and over again, no one is doing a single gods bedamned thing to prevent further occurences.
One might even speculate that this mob deliberately prices themselves low, because they expect to make up for it later, reselling removed items. Which then begs the question of exactly where and when the "paperwork error" occured?
meaculpa2011
(918 posts)knocked down the wrong house a few years ago. A house was condemned for tax arrears and multiple code violations. It was deemed unsafe for habitation. The demolition supervisor showed up at the wrong house because the county office transposed an address number on the demolition order. The house was in perfect condition with beautifully manicured landscaping, but the demolition crew tore it down without so much as a phone call to double check.
The homeowners returned from work that evening to find a pile of rubble where their house had been standing.
Who do you want to throw in jail? The county clerk, the typist, the demolition supervisor, the bulldozer operator...
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Details, please, if you know them!
TheMastersNemesis
(10,602 posts)offered at the. I am not sure if there will be a follow up.
TheMadMonk
(6,187 posts)...when Blind Freddy could have seen something wasn't right.
But I'd settle for harvesting him for body parts, since there was clearly no working brain in his skull.
kcr
(15,317 posts)But the consequences should be as serious. They should be so scared of the consequences that they make damn sure they have the right house before they trash them out.
Bake
(21,977 posts)No need to jail a clerk. But I would think it would rise to the level of gross negligence and the homeowner could recover punitive damages from the bank/lender/moving company.
I'd like to represent that homeowner.
Bake, Esq.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)who is handling 6 similar cases against this company-that's apparently how bad this company is with verifing an address is a legitimate foreclosure clearing.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)The company cares about civil monetary liability.
It's amazing how many "progressives" think "lock 'em up" is the way to solve problems.
kcr
(15,317 posts)It's amazing to me that anyone wants to let companies roll over us. That's what we're talking about here. Let them roll over us and then throw money at the problem. Because civil monetary liability alone doesn't alway protect us.
My main argument is with the idea that there has to be intent. I'm not arguing that there has to be a jail sentence every time this happens, necessarily. I'm arguing that there is indeed a concept of criminal negligence. And it exists in part to protect us. If enough of these "whoopees" happen, then indeed I don't see what's so objectionable about holding them criminally responsible if they aren't exercising due diligence on their part.
TheMadMonk
(6,187 posts)...assets and the owner's assets (limited liability be damned) until the agreived party is paid out in FULL. Only if there isn't enough liquidity would I allow insurance to be used to make up any shortfall.
Right now they just tell their insurer to send a claims form around, and that insurer behaves like any insurer, any time. They do their damndest to minimise what they pay out.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)That's what I can't figure our with the "off with their heads" bunch here on DU.
Yes, there is civil liability out the wazoo here, and the homeowner is due for a payday. This "lock 'em up" mentality doesn't do anything productive or constructive for anyone.
NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)Most of these cleanout companies "help themselves" to property they are cleaning out. Just round them up, find some of the homeowner's property, and deal with the "prima facie" theft.
In cases like this, the company should be immediately sifting the dump for the homeowners property. Why is that not happening?
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)Quite apart from theft which is intent to permanently deprive.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)locked up.
Burglary is a specific intent crime and no facts indicate anything other than a mistake. A mistake that none of us would want to happen to us, but a mistake. And if the law were otherwise, who should be locked up? A company? Which company? A low-level employee? A middle-manager?
TheMastersNemesis
(10,602 posts)Too bad so sad. I am sure the bank will wiggle out of it somehow. The moving company will declare bankruptcy and start under a new name.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)You to can join the Grammer Police
Bake
(21,977 posts)A bit more than just an "oopsie."
Bake
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)year after year. That's more like a pattern.
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)
Tikki
(14,557 posts)by my husband over the years and are considered family heirlooms.
We insure for an amount we set and agreed with our insurance company.
I hope this lady is compensated for a real value to her.
Tikki
Mosby
(16,311 posts)
Beaverhausen
(24,470 posts)this happens ALL THE TIME!
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)I know. Happens to me a lot, although at least I haven't had my home cleared out.
Yesterday my gas was shut off because they went to the wrong place. I have my street number very clearly in place. The post office and various delivery services constantly drop things off at one or the other of my adjoining neighbors, even though they have to look at my address and walk to the next house to mis-deliver. Worse yet, the neighbors NEVER bother to tell me they've gotten something that belongs to me.
I found out about my gas being turned off when the gas company called me to arrange to turn it back on.
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)Your mail doesn't get delivered, it can be a problem. The gas gets turned off, it can be deadly. The rules are different and the procedures are different. In many places you can't turn off gas and power at certain times of the year AT ALL. For something like this, verification procedures should be in place so that these kinds of things don't happen.
I sold plasma when I was young. You get the wrong blood back, you die. They had EXTENSIVE procedures to ensure you got YOUR blodd back.
I would expect procedures in place to minimize the likelyhood, and impact, of this kind of mistake. Without them in place, you are just accepting that it will happen.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)We need a legislative bill here in Colorado to address this
problem, to include provisions for verification of addresses and specific procedures to follow such as requiring: posting of notices on the door 7 to 10 days before clearing day; inventory and storage of all items for 60 days (which would have prevented this accidental loss of property); and standard moving and storage fees, if the owner of a legitimately foreclosed property wants to recover items.
Eta: Also need state licensing and bonding requirements if not in place already, and fines levied against every company for each instance of an illegally cleared house.
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)A simple restriction is that the actual property owner/resident has to be given the opportunity to be there while the articles are being removed.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)way of verifying a clearing as legitimate.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)A disconnect between the process of foreclosure and the movers carelessly sent to do the clearing in this case meant a family home cleared away.
No lives lost, but the homeowner lives with the knowledge that strangers were able to enter her home with impunity by who knows what method, and could do it again. If the perps manage to locate all her belongings, will they redeliver them? Will they replace things where they found them?
What compensation should the victim receive? What consequences should fall on the management that sent the movers to invade the wrong home?
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)Several concerned neighbors called the police when the house was being emptied. When the police got hold of the company, they said they had already thrown out ALL of her possessions at the dump.
Remember, this was an entire lived-in household filled with working appliances, TVs, toys, furniture, jewelry etc. Hardly believable that they wouldn't try to sell ANY of the items, especially jewelry, furniture, and appliances.
She has an attorney (who is handling 6 similar cases against this company nationwide), but if I were in that situation, I'd be checking craigslist for my items and hiring a detective to watch exactly what the employees do with the items from other homes they clear.
Time for a legislative bill to address this continuing problem.
kudzu22
(1,273 posts)because the bank doesn't have legal title to the contents (even of the correct house).
TheMadMonk
(6,187 posts)It's a good bet, that at an ABSOLUTE MINIMUM company employees are helping themselves to the good stuff, before disposing of the remainder.
Also, most dumps have a recycling/salvage yard these days, so odds are damned good that any remaining goods of value were sold there.
kudzu22
(1,273 posts)Switch house numbers with a neighbor you don't like.
flvegan
(64,408 posts)I do hope that the folks that were wronged get taken care of. Nobody should go through that.
MineralMan
(146,311 posts)They should be able to not only get the replacement value for their possessions, but also punitive damages. The suit should have a jury trial, where people who understand what this all means would decide.
That said, such things happen all the time. Something similar happened to me, once.
I was working at my desk in my home when I heard a loud banging. Someone was pounding on my door. So, I went to the door, looked through the peep-hole, and saw some official looking person standing outside, with another person standing by a car in my driveway. Both were carrying sidearms.
I demanded identification, and the man at the door held up an ID that identified him as a probation officer. I opened the door and asked what he wanted. He said, "Is Jimmy {lastname} here."
"Nobody by that name lives here." The guy got testy with me, so I stepped outside and told him again that nobody by that name lived in this house. Then I asked the right question: "What address do you have for that person?" He gave me the address for a house in the next block. That's when I turned things around. I said, "What is the address of the house where you pounded on the door?" I have large house numbers right beside the front door. I told the guy to turn his head just a little to the right and look.
He got all snippy with me again. The other person, standing by the car came up and told him to calm down. I demanded names of both of them and, after they left, called the probation department and bulled my way through to the chief probation officer. I explained what had happened and why that was of concern to me, and I wasn't really very polite about it. Armed people pounding on my door is not something I expect to happen.
Anyhow, I demanded to be informed what was done to prevent such things from occurring again, and did get a letter of apology from the rude guy and an explanation that instructions had been given to all field officers to double check addresses.
This kind of crap happens all the time, and in many ways. It shouldn't, and when it happens, people need to make a big stink about it. In the case of this family and their possessions, significant punitive damages should be awarded in a lawsuit, since money is the only thing lenders understand.