Are We Radicals?

[creativebliss]

Hello,

This is my first thread...and I just wanted to share, discuss, and question an issue that has become a concern of mine.

About 4 years ago, I reached a point in my life where I wanted to be more informed and aware of the politics around me. It began with the Today Show, but I soon became weary of the news and how it was shared. I wanted more, but simply was not getting enough from mainstream media. I, then, discovered the one good thing about having Direct TV - Free Speech TV. I was taken to a whole new world of information, revelation and honest journalism with Amy Goodman and Thom Hartmann.

Thanks to them, my interest in politics piqued and I embarked on a personal journey of discovery and passion.

As much as I know now, I can never know enough and I am always engaged in learning more which I why I joined DU.

However, in the midst of all of this personal growth and expanded knowledge, I have become to those who know and love me an outlier. They refer to me as radical. I take offense to this and am having difficulty reconciling myself with their view of me.

Why and how exactly am I a radical, I ask myself. Because I want a true democracy? Because I want fair and honest politicians? Because I want a living wage? Because I don't want my bank gambling with my money? Because I want money out of politics? Because I don't want ALEC writing legislation? Because I don't believe big business should be colluding with politics? Because I want to be treated with respect and dignity at my job? Because I want reasonable and affordable health care? Because I want to be able to afford to send my son to college?

What has become of our society and narrative when most people are conditioned to believe that anyone who desires meaningful change is a radical?

Please...can any of you help me to understand this?

[el_bryanto]

1. It could be a matter of presentation

Even relatively mild ideas presented with a strident voice might make you seem more radical. Most of what you support seems pretty moderate - although fair and honest politicians might be more difficult than it appears.

Bryant

[Jackpine Radical]

3. Another factor is the "radiclization" of commonsense liberalism

so that what used to be the center is now the far left, thanks to our corporate media and their owners.

Hard not to be a "radical" when being a "radical" only means that you think ordinary people deserve to have the conditions for a decent life, and the freeloaders on top ought to pay their fair share.

[el_bryanto]

9. That's fair enough - but the OP is talking about conversations with family and friends

I think those could be influenced by the radicalization of commonsense liberalism - but you can't really control that. You can control how you present it though.

Bryant

[creativebliss]

13. Thank you for your observation...

I believe I am moderate and only asking for what I believe we are all entitled to.

I would like to add that, though, that while I am passionate, I am not strident. I am an empathetic person who is both egalitarian and non confrontational.

[HughBeaumont]

2. Because 'Murcans are trained to believe that "economic fairness" = "Mao Tse Tung", or something.

You aren't a "radical". You want a "WE" society, while those Fox-huffers you're talking about think it's all about NUMMER ONE.

[creativebliss]

14. You nailed it!

A "WE" society is exactly what I would like!

[Half-Century Man]

4. Attribute not to malice those thing easily explained by stupidity.

You are not a radical, but you do appear to be awake. If they suggested you were a wombat would you listen to them? They seem a lot like 2nd graders, calling those who don't agree them names.
I used to get mad at them till I realized karma was already punishing them, after all they have to be themselves for the rest of their lives. And thats a giant metaphysical booger on their face.

[haikugal]

30. Kudos...

I love your style...and agree completely. I've been viewed as a 'radical' and still am when I'm nothing of the kind. I'm rational and try to stay informed. Everything and everyone (almost everyone) has been shoved right over the cliff into fascism with the rich on top. We no longer have a representative government but pointing that out makes you a radical by design.

[creativebliss]

36. Right on!

We no longer have a representative government but pointing that out makes you a radical by design.

That's it in a nutshell!

[Newest Reality]

5. Are we getting to the root of matters?

It seems that we carry shovels and dig more here, despite desperate and somtimes transparent attempts to refute and denigrate the excavation by those who have a strong, conditioned drive to defend the system at all costs.

I have no problem with noting the goodness, progress and benefits of a system, even though ours system is already very good at putting lipstick on the pig while parading around extolling its own virtues. There is such a strong current of cheer-leading proponents loudly singing the anthem of American virtue while claiming to be informed, even though there are hosts of serious and critical problems we face. Some of those problems have an impact on some of us and others are serious matter concerning our survival as a species.

The vociferous anger and hyper-critical, emotional reactions that are presented in defense of said system concern me. Those voices are valid, too, and they give us indications of the various mindsets involved in the collective social structure of this country. Some of the anger that is vented in that manner does concern me and seeing it directed at activists and those who vigilantly criticize what is going on, (which is not hard considering the amount of valid information that glares like a warning beacon) as if that is an affront to a set of inculcated notions indicating insecurity and subjective resistance to change.

We are as radical as we are interested in and involved in investigation, liberty, justice, equality and fomenting definite change to whatever might interfere with or prevent us from achieving those essential rights for all.

Got root?

The word "radical' has been relegated to a list of taboo or deprecated words/ideas, (anarchy, welfare, communism, socialism, altruism, etc.) and many of them have been demonized by the very people who support the system's simulation and status quo. That may be very telling. When taken as getting to the root of things, situations, politics, economics, it is probably a more relevant term now than it ever was.

[creativebliss]

12. Excellent points...

You have certainly grasped what I was asking and explained it so succintly. Thank you!

The word "radical' has been relegated to a list of taboo or deprecated words/ideas, (anarchy, welfare, communism, socialism, altruism, etc.) and many of them have been demonized by the very people who support the system's simulation and status quo. That may be very telling. When taken as getting to the root of things, situations, politics, economics, it is probably a more relevant term now than it ever was.

[G_j]

33. I've considered myself a 'radical' since

the Vietnam war, when I registered as a conscientious objector. As a life long peace activist in a country whose military dwarfs all others, it seems ill always be on the radical fringe. So be it. The label doesn't bother me, a perpetual state of war certainly does.

[creativebliss]

37. Not going to let it bother me anymore either!

The label doesn't bother me, a perpetual state of war certainly does.

So true! I'd rather be a "radical" than complacent in war and inequality.

You were/are brave. I can't pretend to understand what it must have been like to register as a conscientious objector at that time.

[Solly Mack]

6. You stepped outside the comfy box.

To those still on the inside you will seem like a radical. You're not just challenging your beliefs by becoming more aware or better informed - you're challenging theirs as well - and that scares them. It's easier for them if you're a radical. Then it's not them that has remained stagnant or unyielding or hostile to change and information - it's you that has embraced strange thinking. If you're the radical, then they're right to remain in their comfy box. They don't have to change. They don't have to think differently.

It's unfair but you learn to live it. You can only change yourself and continue your quest. You can't change how they react to it. Maybe along the way someone else moves out of that comfy box to stand beside you. Even if no one that knows and loves you does, please know you're not alone.

Many of us have been called radicals and the fringe by those who would rather remain in the comfy box. And we've been call radical for nothing more than espousing basic liberal tenets...basic human decency.

"What has become of our society and narrative when most people are conditioned to believe that anyone who desires meaningful change is a radical?"

It's easier to control people who don't ask questions. Who just accept bad laws, bad policies, and bad practices as just the way it is. Or who think bad laws/policies, etc. are actually good or, worse, justifiable.

People will tell themselves all kinds of lies to remain in the comfy box. Politicians will tell citizens all kinds of lies to keep them in the comfy box.

[creativebliss]

16. Wow! You said is so well!

Thank you so much for your comments. I feel better having read them!

And, the "comfy box" analogy really puts it into perspective. The status quo is certainly a difficult bubble to burst when fear is its outer layer.

[Fumesucker]

7. Erasmus thought that in the country of the blind the one eyed man is king..

Erasmus was a flaming optimist, in the country of the blind the one eyed man is thought a radical.

Frankly if you want to keep your life and friends more or less as they are I'd advise you to just ignore all this and go back to the way you were.

[creativebliss]

17. That's just it...

There is no turning back.

I feel freed in some ironic way now that I am more informed. Though, the more I learn, the more difficult that knowledge becomes at times.

I am fortunate. While my family and friends may call me "radical," they still love me and have enough respect to listen to me even if they may not agree. Perhaps, one day, some of that listening will resonate and become less radical to them.

I appreciate your response.

[Fumesucker]

24. The information you are providing most people desperately do not want to hear

Like you I had a loving family but they couldn't stand hearing what I had to say indefinitely, the truth makes most people far too uncomfortable.

It's much easier to forgive someone for being wrong than to forgive them for being right, sounds really stupid but it's a truth that took me a long time and much quite literal grief to figure out.

The less you say about what you have learned to your family and friends the better off you will be, I advise you to keep your ideas to yourself as much as you can.

[creativebliss]

25. Thank you. Your points are appreciated and respected.

[northoftheborder]

51. That is the way I live my life, with secret "radicalism". People do not want to....

... have their cherished "beliefs" challenged, no matter how wrong they are. If I shared my political beliefs with everyone I knew, I would have few friends. That's why these Dem. liberal blogs like DU are so important to many people. Some of my best friends are in the local Democratic clubs. Other friends I have to find other realms of life to share. I'm just not an evangelist, for anything. It's all I can do to inform myself, and I do share information with those who might show an interest in knowing something I happen to know a little about.

My "radical" ideas used to be mainstream. It is a sad state of affairs that our country is in right now..... I don't know what it will take for people to wake up..... All of us need to stay informed so that when that day comes that people do wake up and start looking for information, we can point them to it. I applaud those who do stand up in public on soapboxes and shout, they are necessary, but I personally do not have the constitution to do that.

[dawg]

8. I used to call myself a conservative Democrat.

That was back in the early nineties.

I really haven't changed my positions on the issues. I still think Social Security and Medicare should be protected and fully funded. I still think free trade agreements should be augmented with provisions to protect American labor. I still support a progressive tax code where the rich pay more than the middle, and the poor get help and not regressive taxes. I still think moving, gradually, toward single-payer is the only way we will ever solve our health care crisis. I still think the government should spend more, not less, when there is excessive unemployment. I still support investments in education, science, and infrastructure.

But now, those positions put me on the extreme left. Even on this, supposedly extreme website, I find myself arguing mostly from the left. Third-Way mentality is so ingrained into our party that most people can't even see it anymore. Things that George H.W. Bush would have balked at proposing in the late 80's now come from the mouths of prominent elected Democrats. And people like me get called a "hater" for trying to call them out on it.

The TV says that my old, moderate beliefs are now the radical left. No one but Bernie Sanders and Alan Grayson would support such socialist nonsense. And most people are willing to just go right along with the flow.

At least we have gotten some positive changes on social issues.

[creativebliss]

19. Isn't it amazing how loosely the word "extreme" is used...

Well, you already know that I don't think you are radical of extreme. In fact, I support each and every one of your positions on the issues.

Thanks for your response!

[niyad]

10. my standard response to various names I have been called "but. ..you say this like it's a bad thing

[creativebliss]

20. LOL! Love it! I am certainly going to have to borrow that one. Thanks!

[niyad]

46. welcome to DU-- use it at will. I just love the reaction it gets.

[creativebliss]

47. Thank you, I certainly will!

[G_j]

34. +1

[Douglas Carpenter]

11. at the risk of treading on Goodwin's Law- compared to Hitler-Mussolini would have been the far left

We are obviously far from living in the era of Hitler but we are living in an era where decades ago the goal post had shifted so far to the right at least on economic and foreign policy issues that what was once viewed as far right is now being viewed as moderate and what was once moderate-conservative is now viewed as the far left. According to the mainstream media the only people who don't want to cut Social Security and Medicare benefits are the far left and that they are some how the moral equivalents of the Paul Ryan types who want to privatize and essentially eliminate Social Security and Medicare. So what of those of us who see an America where most of the elderly and disabled live in such increasing distress that we would like to improve their conditions? Imagine anyone coming out and saying openly that we should be improving the living standards of the poor, the elderly and disabled. That would be so far beyond the pale even in respectable Democratic circles - only a radical leftist could suggest such a thing so extreme.

[creativebliss]

21. Sad, but true...

Imagine anyone coming out and saying openly that we should be improving the living standards of the poor, the elderly and disabled. That would be so far beyond the pale even in respectable Democratic circles - only a radical leftist could suggest such a thing so extreme.

Your poignant observation is exactly why they smother the media with deficit spending and sequestration or partisan circusry...deflecting our attention from more meaningful, pressing issues.

[99Forever]

15. K&R and Welcome to DU.

I'll try to respond later, gotta go to work now.

[creativebliss]

22. Thank you! And when you do...can you tell me what K&R stands for?

[haikugal]

32. Kick and recommend....

Welcome!

[creativebliss]

38. Thanks...one more question...forgive me for not knowing...

I certainly understand the "recommend" part, but what does "kick" represent? Just want to better understand this lovely DU environment of which I have graciously become a part.

[haikugal]

41. Kick...

is used to keep the OP (original post) on the front page...I think...I'm not a paying member so I can't technically recommend but I K&R anyway...

[creativebliss]

44. Thank you...and how'd you know I was going to ask about OP...LOL!

[ljm2002]

42. Responding to a post kicks it...

...sometimes we include a kicking donkey symbol:



or



but any posted response at all, even a negative one, has the effect of "kicking" a thread.

[creativebliss]

43. Thanks!

[upsidedownforklift]

18. Define it!

Whoever is telling you that you are a "radical," ask them to define their term. What do you mean by "radical," what exact ideas do these people find radical?

[creativebliss]

23. Great point!

I haven't actually asked...

...but, this remark came from a pretty informed individual...

however, he only watches MSNBC to get his news...

I believe that may be the problem...though, I admit to admiring some of its hosts...

Example: We were discussing Gitmo the other day and he says we should just keep them there or let them die from their hunger strike...I tried to explain that more than 80 of them have not even been charged with crimes...He couldn't wrap his head around this...explaining that the U.S. would not incarcerate people without due process...and added, they're terrorists anyway...

In your opinion, how do you reason with this person?

Thank you for your response!

[graham4anything]

26. Please do not include ME with you when you don't know me as you said you are brand new

As for radicals? Well, when none of the above includes anything about

equality for Blacks, Hispanics, Women, Gays, Jews, and any other minority in America, well,
that is radical.

A real liberal cares about those things I mentioned more than the others, because unless 100% of all people are actually equal, the other stuff is meaningless far left soundbytes
with all those same stale soundbytes railing against Ron Paul type issues.

and yes, I consider Rand and Ron Paul and their friends in the JBS like David Duke to be extremists.

I am working for an 80-20 America and to make obsolete the views of the vocal 20% of America that flank both sides.

being that you used WE in the title, I assume you wanted my opinion, however
again
Please do NOT use WE unless you specify exactly who WE is, because I am ME not WE.

[creativebliss]

28. With all due respect...

I do believe in equality for ALL people...they were not excluded on purpose. I happen to be gay.

And, more, I was responding to another post who mentioned that I believe in a "we" society. I merely agreed with his/her point. I, in NO way, implied you were ME or I YOU or that we were anyway the same. Again, "WE" referred to society...to be more collective is ALL.

Thank you for your response and candidness.

[Bannakaffalatta]

27. right-shift

What has become of our society and narrative when most people are conditioned to believe that anyone who desires meaningful change is a radical?

I've been acutely aware of this since the 80's; the Reagan/Thatcher/Mulroney axis made a huge effort to re-frame all political debate in such as a way as to exclude the poor, labour and activism. It was a complex, co-ordinated and totally unscrupulous campaign to discredit, then dismantle, all the progress western countries had made in the post-war decades. By 1970, the mega-rich were becoming anxious: it was urgently necessary to stop the trend toward social equality (inevitable in a functioning democracy) before it spread to the exploited continents.

[creativebliss]

29. Welcome to DU fellow newbie! And, thank you for that insightful observation!

[ljm2002]

31. Yes we, and you, are radical...

...but not in the classic sense.

In today's political environment, it is radical to be informed on the issues. It is radical to propose specific solutions, and to object to specific and identifiable entities like ALEC.

We are expected to be news consumers, and the news we are expected to consume is the mainstream news, whether that be FOX or CNN or ABC, CBS or NBC -- but in all cases it is a corporate controlled narrative, and the narrative does not, I repeat does NOT include critical thinking. What passes for critical thinking is the "he said / she said" narrative they promote, wherein the news presenters make no attempt to sort through the merits of any argument but rather present "both sides" of the story and "let you decide". If one side is lying through their teeth, and the other side is honest but muddled, well that is fine with them and it should be with you too: you are supposed to be left shaking your head and leaving the hard work of sorting out up to the lawmakers who, after all, know better than you now don't they?

In an environment like this, those of us who seek out real information, and who decide on the merits rather than on the pablum presented us by Corporate McPravda, are indeed radicals.

Welcome to the club.

[creativebliss]

39. Great explanation and point of view. I absolutely agree!

You, and many others on here, have put into words so well what I feel. Thank you!

[gejohnston]

35. radical is relative

radical is usually used as a slur. If you agree with a person, they are reformers. If not, he is a radical.
Thom Hartmann doesn't claim to be a journalist.

[creativebliss]

40. Thanks for clarifying about Thom Hartmann...

I didn't mean to refer to him as a journalist. I wasn't really sure what to call him. All I know for certain, is that he has been an amazing teacher to me.

[G_j]

45. Bunny Wailer is one

Bunny Wailer Roots, Radics, Rockers, Reggae found on http://batlyrics.com/roots,_radics,_rockers,_reggae-lyrics-bunny_wailer.html

now the roots are the inspiration of the people oh yes
and without them all would be gone astray
I can hear the voices of the radicals in the cities
Grab on, brother! To the rock I said
Rastafari, he leads the way
and reggae is the music which sends a message
tells of history, the truth, and the right
leading the cause of the innocent ones
to come forth be afflicted and keep them from wrong
Let the aged be protected and the infant be strong yes oh yeah, yeah, yeah

Remeber reggae is the music which sends a message
tells of history, the truth, and the right
leading the cause of the innocent ones
to come forth be afflicted and keep them from wrong
Let the aged be protected and the infants be strong

it's the roots(you roots)you radicals you rock to the reggae
you roots(you roots)you radicals you dub to the reggae
you roots(you roots)you radicals skankin to the reggae
you roots y'all

[creativebliss]

48. Thanks! Now, I have to go listen to this song!

[creativebliss]

49. How is it that the people overcome the corporate rhetoric?

How is that corporations are not deemed radical in their greed and immorality?

I was thinking yesterday how it has much to do with our media. We are inundated with negativity in our news. I think of the Nightly News with Brian Williams where each episode ends with a positive and inspiring story. I used to think this was great, now I just see it as an example of what ranks important on the news.

Imagine how differently Occupy would have been received had news sources shed it in positive light and as an inspiring story of people promoting true democracy and change. No, instead, Occupy was vilified and radicalized...and even criminalized. So, if a movement as powerful as Occupy couldn't help de-radicalize movements and the people in them...what can?

[creativebliss]

50. Basically curious on your thoughts for the next big movement...

...and how we improve our resilience to the government and corporate resistance...

[northoftheborder]

52. I think climate change is one biggie that is going to so change people's lives, that inevitable....

....attitudes towards government, greedy pollutive industries, insurance companies are going to be turned UPSIDE DOWN.