My First Rifle: It comes in pink! And blue! And red, white and blue, too!

[cali]

http://www.crickett.com/products_new.php

testimonials from the happy parents who bought their little children this lovely item:

http://www.crickett.com/crickett_testimonials.php?osCsid=76oie5ae4s9omhpan89ar424u7

[Walk away]

1. Anyone who thinks it's jolly sport to teach their seven year old to shoot...

a gun should be committed. I think if the sane half of the country knew this was legal, someone would have done something about it a long time ago.

[premium]

4. For rural families,

this is a pretty normal thing.

[cali]

18. Look, I live in Vemont which has the laxest gun laws in the country

most of it is rural. the hunting culture is strong here and I've known quite a few kids who got their first gun around 8 or 9, but a couple of things: we're talking people buying these things for 4 year old children and we're talking about a product that's made to appeal to very young kids.

[premium]

21. As long as they are strictly supervised,

and the firearms are securely stored when not in use, then I really don't have a problem with this.
Teach firearm safety at a young age and take away the mystic of firearms and 9 times out of 10, the child will grow up with deep respect for firearms and the damage they can do if improperly used.

Of course, this is just from my experience growing up.

[GeorgeGist]

101. 9 times out of 10 ...

leaves 30 million nut jobs.

[premium]

103. Huh?

Depends on what you classify as a gun nut.

[HangOnKids]

110. LOL!

Just that!

[premium]

112. LOL! nt.

[HangOnKids]

115. Try again dude!

Because gun lovin is such fun!

[premium]

116. OK! nt.

[HangOnKids]

118. Check out this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022781954#top

Keep swinging that bat!

[premium]

120. Already have.

The problem lies with the idiot parents who didn't properly secure the weapon, left it loaded, where the kid could get to it.

The parents should be charged with negligent homicide.

[sylvi]

113. Who is talking about buying them for four year olds? nt

[Beaverhausen]

117. A four-year-old was given a rifle and, now 5 years old, he shot and killed his two year old sister

lots of threads about it. Not sure how you can miss them.

[sylvi]

129. I was replying to this thread and the "testimonials" at the web site

It was the first one I clicked on at the top of the page so without some context I wouldn't know about those "lots of threads".

Unsupervised use or access to a firearm at any age under 15 or so is obviously negligent. The same thing could happen with a firearm bought for the parent if it's not secured and is accessible to children in the home. The point is I'm just not seeing a bunch of people running out buying rifles for "four year olds" despite that anecdote.

I wouldn't think a four year old would find shooting very engaging or interesting. Even these "junior-sized" rifles would still be big and heavy at that age. They make small "pop" and somewhere in the distance a hole appears. I'm not even sure a four year old would even realize the implication. They'd rather engage in something more immediate and tangible like Leggos or coloring books or action figures.

[liberal N proud]

31. I grew up in a rural part of the country and it wasn't normal

My dad and my "older" brothers went out shooting. When I turned 15, I was allowed to go hunting with them. I had a friend who's dad had hunting dogs and he loaded his own shells, yet he was not allowed to fire a weapon until he was 15 as well. It was normal for 15 year old boys to get guns, not younger and not girls.

It is not "normal" for a 7 year old to be shooting weapons, I suppose they would take that kid out to adult events too.

[premium]

35. Well, where I grew up,

it was the norm for us kids to learn at an early age to shoot and to own rifles, all my friends owned .22 rifles by the time we were 8, 9,10 years old.

[newmember]

81. really?

You had a rifle at 8 years old?

[premium]

83. Yes I did.

As did my brothers and sisters, for my 8th birthday, I was given a Marlin .22 and a .410 shotgun, don't remember who made the shotgun, I think it was Sears, but it was a loooooooooooooooooooong time ago.

For rural kids, this was the norm, not the exception.

[newmember]

86. I understand the cultural difference in rural communities

It's common to have a firearm in the home.
What I'm asking is you were allowed to take it out by your self to go hunting or shooting?
Or did you have an adult with you , older brother , parent when you took it out?

[premium]

89. No.

None of us were allowed to handle or shoot our firearms without strict parental supervision, and we weren't allowed to go hunting alone until we were 15 yo and then only after a very stern lecture on gun and hunter safety from our parents.

[Ghost in the Machine]

124. I got my first .22 rifle when I was 7 years old. Some of my fondest memories with my dad are from

when we went target shooting on the weekends. As I got older, and he was working more and more, we never got to spend much time together. I used to fish a lot with my grandmother, who lived with us. We had a canal right across the street, and we were just a few miles from the Everglades. Dad wasn't into fishing, or hunting, but we enjoyed target shooting. I was never allowed to even touch my gun unless he was with me. When I was 13, we moved from Miami to a farm in Tennessee. There I was allowed to take my gun out in the yard when I got home from school (and mom usually had her eye on me, under the guise of 'sitting on the porch to get some sun). When I was 14, I was allowed to go out into our woods and go squirrel hunting. When I was 15, a few months shy of 16, I was invited to go deer hunting with my best friend and his dad. I didn't have a gun that was legal to hunt deer with, but my friend let me use his shotgun, as he had a 30-06, too. I didn't know anything about deer hunting, so I just sat with my friend, and watched him as he got his first deer. I was hooked! I started reading all the hunting magazines I could find, reading about deer hunting. My dad got me a deer rifle for my 16th b'day and, as they say, the rest is history. In the past 35 years, I think I've missed 2 seasons, both due to being too injured to be in the woods.

The one thing though, as someone upthread mentioned, I had safety, Safety, SAFETY *DRILLED* into my head from before the first time I ever picked my first rifle up. I think it is IMPERATIVE to teach young children firearms safety, for their own sake, and the sake of others. Take the mystique and forbiddenness out of guns by teaching them just how dangerous they are and how bad they could hurt themselves or someone else. TEACH THEM what to do if they happen to come across one somewhere.... DON'T TOUCH IT, GO GET AN ADULT!!

Peace,

Ghost

[Matariki]

77. That was my experience - BUT WITH SERIOUS ADULT SUPERVISION

***ALWAYS***

There wasn't any access to the guns without the adults present. And we were taught to NEVER EVER EVER point them at people.

[premium]

79. Same story here.

Always strictly supervised and when not in use, locked up in my dad's gun safe in my parents room.

[winter is coming]

94. *And* with ordinary guns, not something that looked like a toy. n/t

[Scootaloo]

122. It's crazy, I spent a chunk of my childhood in the North Carolina Appalachians

Nobody ever put a gun in my hands when I was seven. None of my friends were given guns. Parents did own guns, but the consensus was "when you're older."

Don't give me this "It's normal for rural families," because it's really not; most parents, rural or otherwise, have enough sense to not give a first grader a rifle.

[premium]

123. That wasn't my experience growing up in rural northern Nevada.

All of my friends had rifles when we were growing up, of course we couldn't take handle or shoot them without parental supervision, but we did own rifles.

[Scootaloo]

126. When you were five? Seven?

[premium]

128. All of us kids were taught firearm safety at 5,

without handling any firearms, on my 8th birthday, I got a Marlin .22 rifle and a .410 pump shotgun, but I couldn't handle or shoot it without one of my parents supervising me, and when they wasn't in use, they were kept in my dad's gun safe in my parents bedroom.

[Scootaloo]

130. So it was your parents' gun.

And they let you handle it occasionally under tightly-controlled conditions, and kept it locked away at all other times.

Kind of a different situation than the one spurring this thread. But hanks for pointing out that strict gun control is a good solution to prevent such incidents

[premium]

131. Yes they were my dad's rifles,

but for all intents and purposes, they were mine, no one else used them.
My parents were big on safety and supervision when it came to firearms. None of us were even allowed in their room and we KNEW the consequences of breaking that rule, it only took my ass getting busted once to learn my lesson.

[hack89]

6. I learned at 8. I taught my kids at 8

it is more common than you think it is.

[maxsolomon]

45. I learned at 2 and was instructing other toddlers by 3.

We killed every varmint in the neighborhood, but only 1 or 2 other kids.

This was mandatory in my town, the bestest place in America, the bestest country on God's Green Earth.

[hack89]

52. And everyone of you was above average, I am sure.

[Recursion]

8. Consider this a deleted personal attack

I grew up in a rural environment and learned to shoot at the age of 8. My parents are not mentally ill, and screw you for suggesting that.

[Lizzie Poppet]

14. Heh. Had to re-write my initial response, too.

And for the same reason: calling my parents insane would not end well face-to-face.

[IveWornAHundredPants]

30. I suppose not: they have guns.

[Lizzie Poppet]

43. I meant to MY face...

...but don't worry: I respond to verbal douchebaggery verbally, not with bullets.

[IveWornAHundredPants]

53. I believe that,

and I believe most gun owners are probably the same; but I also believe there are way, way too many gun people who cavalierly see their guns as solutions to their problems, or who just don't see them as dangerous items that ought to be treated seriously. Coloring them pink or blue and giving them to children is not treating them seriously. That's why I'm all for just about any form of gun control you can think of, and tend to think pretty poorly of those who make that dumb joke about gun control being a steady hand on the trigger and whatever else. (I'm not implying you're one of these, btw.)

[Lizzie Poppet]

57. I think that's a fair observation.

It only takes a small minority of irresponsible idiots to create a dangerous, even deadly situation. In my view, even failing to provide for proper firearms security (gun safe, trigger locks, what-have-you...) constitutes irresponsible exercise of one's right to possess a deadly weapon. I think guns and children can mix, but only if the adults involved actually act like adults, and only allow the child access under strictly controlled conditions. They must make it crystal clear that a firearm is not a toy, and that firearms safety rules are 100% non-negotiable. Moreover, the adults involved must adhere to those rules and treat firearms with the same respect for their destructive potential that they want the child to have. Children learn by example, but too may adults set a piss-poor one when it comes to firearms.

[Walk away]

92. I guess people who grow up with guns feel comfortable threatening...

others. Very weird.

[baldguy]

138. If you can't take valid criticism face-to-face without threatening violence

Perhaps you shouldn't be allowed to have a gun.

[Lizzie Poppet]

12. I learned at that exact age.

So do literally millions of children, without incident. Feel free to characterize that as less than "sane" all you like, but you haven't a leg to stand on.

[ileus]

13. My son had taken his second deer by the age seven.

[Skittles]

98. ...

[premium]

108. My oldest son took his first deer by the age of 9.

I was very proud of him.

[premium]

16. Committed for what?

All of us kids were taught to shoot at age 8, my parents were as sane as anyone else.
Your insult is unwanted and unwarranted.

[galileoreloaded]

40. interesting. i think all authoritarians should be committed for an actual good reason. whodathnk. nt

[wercal]

133. Using the Boy Scouts as a model

If I recall correctly, it was B-B guns at age 8 at the day camp.

And, when you became an actual Boy Scout at age 11, you would go to the weeklong overnight camp, and .22 was available, as well as some variety of shotgun for skeet.

I worked at our camp for 4 summers, and we never had any problems at the range. Everybody took it seriously and did what they were told.

These ages seem reasonable to me. Now I'm not a real fan of the pink guns or the guns that look like toys (I think Beretta is fashioning one to look like a gun from one of the combat video games). Somehow making them look like toys conceals their true power, and makes them seem less serious.

I wouldn't go younger than 8...but I certainly wouldn't pretend that 18 is even feasible as a cut off.

[premium]

2. For my 8th birthday,

I got a Marlin 22LR rifle and a .410 shotgun, and then for my 16th birthday, I got a Winchester lever action 30-30 and a 12 ga. shotgun, which I kept in a gun rack in the back window of my p/u during hunting season, would park my vehicle in the school parking lot and go hunting after school.

My brothers and sisters did alot of hunting with our father growing up.
I see no problem with this as long as they are supervised by adults and taught firearms safety.

[maxsolomon]

82. You weren't FOUR

you can admit that these parents are fuck ups.

[NightWatcher]

3. Flame away, but teaching a kid (10+) the proper respect and use...

takes away some of the mystique and helps prevent accidents and injuries.

I say this as someone from the South who had a 22 at 12 years old. That said, I never treated guns as a toy nor did I have toy guns growing up. I also never felt the need to climb up in the closet to try to locate my dad's 38 spl.

Now flame away.

[premium]

7. ^^^^^This^^^^^.

No flaming here. By the age 8, all of us kids had our own rifles and were taught firearm safety by our father, when the rifles weren't in use, they were stored in a gun safe in my parents bedroom, and we knew better than to go into their bedroom without permission.

[onehandle]

33. See this? This is a gun. It stays locked in this vault. Don't go near the vault or else.

End of lesson.

[newfie11]

47. My 22 rifle was my birthday present at age 11

I still have it (now 66).
My Dad and my brother (a marine back then) gave me a very good education on safety.
I used it on a pack of dogs years ago attacking my daughters small pony and on prairie dogs. The rest has been target shooting.
It will be handed down to my grand daughter when she turns 11. Her dad and brothers do lots of hunting and she already knows safety with guns but will certainly be supervised.

Then I will be left with my
Muzzle loader.

[Progressive dog]

5. The barrels are only blued or stainless

They could put a pink cover on the barrels, can't have the barrels clash.
Next up colored ammo, for those days when your child's gun must look it's best.

[aikoaiko]

9. How did you know I was looking for a crickett for my son's birthday?

I think he might get the plain synthetic stock.

http://www.crickett.com/popup_image.php?pID=444&osCsid=6ko0om621fdafndi3lessm11f7

[DonP]

27. If you'll settle for a traditional look and a better gun try Savage

I picked up a nice single shot .22 for teaching the grandkids. It has the Savage Accutrigger, a nice hardwood stock, a peep sight and an easy to work bolt action.

I found the Crickett to be less expensive, but not as smooth or accurate after trying one.

[ileus]

10. My wife wants pink furniture for her AR.

[otohara]

25. Barbie Doll House

for her adorable pink Assault Rifle.

[premium]

32. You mean something like this?

[otohara]

37. Hello Kitty Doll House

that's even more adorable.

[premium]

39. Actually,

I think it's ugly as hell, but if someone wants one, more power to them.

[MadHound]

11. I learned to shoot in second grade,

Seven or thereabouts. Was given a .22 when I was twelve, a twelve gauge pump shotgun at sixteen. Thoroughly enjoyed them both, still have them.

You teach a kid when they're young to properly handle and respect firearms and they will, for the most part, be responsible gun owners for the rest of their life.

[Pelican]

15. That's it...

Started on toy guns to learn the basic rules, then BB guns and moved on up...

Always under supervision until the right age and the ability to comprehend has been reached.

[Katashi_itto]

17. I have several weapons from living in the deserts of New Mexico This is my favorite:

1874 Sharps Buffalo Rifle - Quigley®



Just a pleasure to use, range up to 1000 yards it's for big game hunting.

The military Sharps rifle (also known as the Berdan Sharps rifle) was a falling block rifle used during and after the American Civil War. Along with being able to use a standard percussion cap, the Sharps had a fairly unusual pellet primer feed. This was a device which held a stack of pelleted primers and flipped one over the nipple each time the trigger was pulled and the hammer fell - making it much easier to fire a Sharps from horseback than a gun employing individually loaded percussion caps.

I have very little interest in modern weaponry. I prefer weapons that carry more historical weight.

Also seen in the Movie "Quigley Down Under"

The Sharps carbine is also seen in the 2010 film True Grit, used by Matt Damon's character LaBoeuf. During the course of the film, the carbine's accuracy becomes a source of debate between LaBoeuf and Jeff Bridges' character "Rooster" Cogburn; at the film's conclusion, the accuracy of the gun is validated.

I happened to learn to shoot at nine in Missouri, btw. Parents were quite sane and both with PhDs

[otohara]

36. I Wasn't Expecting This

from you, being Japanese and all.

Knowing how safe it is in Japan and how fucked up it is here.
My Japanese family refuses to come to the US to visit. Mostly because they are terrified of the US and they refuse
to spend money in a country that has gone gun-crazy insane.

[Katashi_itto]

54. I'm half Japanese, was raised in the U.S.

Whole family is gone now, just me.

I look at guns more from a historical perpective and more importantly, could I hunt with it.

Living in New Mexico, I enjoyed hunting, it was easy, lots to hunt and it filled up my freezer with great meats.

So there was really a reason to have weapons. Not the "The gun crazy collect at all costs" for me...which also didnt fit me in with the average Gunner I met down there.

Living in southren New Mexico, was an experience. It really never left the old west. Hence living there got my interest up for old fashsioned weapons that were actually useful.

I see no real purpose for a Bushmaster or any of the human killing weapons that are on the market out there. Except to promote the fantasy of Home/self defense

I don't blame your family.

The gun violence is out of control. Common sense measures to deal with gun violence cannot gain traction. The political system here is screwed.

I don't think anything will really fix it anymore.

Frankly I am working towards moving out of the country.

Was thinking Northren Europe or Japan. Moving to Europe or Japan, I will merrily put what weapons I own in storage or sale them off, and not think twice about it.

[premium]

55. If you ever want to sell that Sharps,

let me know, I would love to have it just for it's historical value.

[Katashi_itto]

56. I will, it's in mint condition. It's a very handsome weapon.

Had a carrying sleeve made for it by the leather workers of the Mescalero Apache Indian Reservation near Alamogordo. Very nicely done. Ton of fringe and tooling on it.

[premium]

61. I'm kind of the same mind as you,

I grew up in rural Nevada, around traditional firearms, hunted extensively as a kid, the only firearms I own now are a Colt Python .357 and a 12 ga. shotgun and the only reason I own the Colt is because I got it for $50.00.

Never really saw any reason to own any of these modern semi auto rifles, carried an M-16 in Vietnam and saw first hand the carnage it could inflict, and, I'm sorry to say, I inflicted some of that carnage.

[Katashi_itto]

66. Yup, thats my attitude. Is it good for hunting or maybe for Civil War reenactment?

Otherwise, really what use is a modern weapon except maybe as a very lethal doorstop.

I can see where your coming from, I was in desert storm, course I was Navy, so it was mainly drinking coffee, not like you.

The Sharps and one other weapon ( a calico) are the only two I spent serious money on.

My end goal with the Sharps was to use it for hunting.

The Calico, I picked up just because it looked to much like a Star Wars blaster and I am that much of a geek.

[laundry_queen]

19. All part of the gun culture

that the rest of the world finds insane. Look in this thread - people think it's perfectly normal and ok and don't see anything wrong with it. That's what happens when something is so pervasive, even if it isn't healthy, it becomes normalized and no one thinks twice about it. What's that saying? It's no measure of health to be perfectly adjusted to a sick society?

[premium]

23. This is common in the rural parts of the country.

A lot of children were taught about firearms at a young age and were given a rifle at a young age.

[laundry_queen]

24. No kidding?!

Read my post again. Slowly.

[premium]

28. I did read it.

As I said, I have no problem with giving a kid a rifle as long as they are strictly supervised, taught firearms safety, and the weapon is securely stored when not in use.

But that's just me.

[laundry_queen]

44. And I'm saying you think it's okay and normal because of the gun culture

the same gun culture that enables violence...your posts just prove my point.

[Lizzie Poppet]

63. Not all persons are equally susceptible to cultural influence.

So even if one accepts the argument that a "gun culture" exists and is influential, your attempt at ad hoc psychoanalysis of the poster's reasoning is speculative, at best.

[laundry_queen]

137. That's your opinion on a culture that you grew up in. I always thought my dysfunctional family was

totally normal - until I lived away from them for awhile.

[otohara]

87. Rural Folks Seem to Have More Power

Kinda sick of how much power rural areas carry considering our gun problem effects us urban folks more. Other areas of policy favor rural too.

[premium]

91. That's ridiculous blaming rural America

for the problems of urban America. It's not our fault for your urban firearms violence and I reject your premise that we are to blame.

[otohara]

97. With Policy Issues Especially on Guns

Rural, rural, rural.... blah, blah, blah.

It there some requirement if you live in rural America you must have a gun?
That's all I heard when the gun debate was going on - Rural Rules, period!
there's a gun culture in rural America our elected officials fear.

In Colorado there's an right-wing energy commercial running about fracking - don't punish rural Coloradans.

[premium]

100. No requirement,

but they do come in handy for varmints, predators, hunting.

Once again, rural America is not responsible for the violence in urban America.

[otohara]

102. Once Again

I blame rural America for dictating the gun debate with the must have gun if you live in rural areas and they are winning.

[premium]

104. Must have gun?

Who is saying that you must have gun?
I've yet to hear that.

It's about whether or not you have the right to own a gun.

[otohara]

114. Right to Kill

is what is the result of our rights to own these weapons of mass destruction has come to.

Sorry, I'm more of a "right to happiness" person. Happiness includes being and feeling safe, none of these exist in this country because of guns. You all are to blame, city owners, rural owners, The NRA and The US Senate.

My family from Japan won't ever come to this country again - they are terrified and refuse to spend money here. Students
are turning down US Universities because of our gun problem. Nothing matters to gun culture except the 2nd Amendment. NOTHING!

[premium]

119. I'm truly sorry you feel that way,

we'll just have to agree to disagree about firearm ownership.

You have a very good day, and thank you for a civil debate.

[Walk away]

96. Red States, most with the lowest school ratings in the country and the...

smallest populations, get the same amount of votes in the Senate as NY, NJ, CA, MA and other Blue States. When the half million gun lovers in Wyoming have the same clout as the 9 million people in New Jersey you are going to get laws created by the fringe.

[otohara]

106. Exactly

We've had a slew of gun deaths in the past few days in Denver alone.
I read the ugly posts from the gun culture crowd and I don't fucking get it.
Guns over dead people keeps winning -

[badtoworse]

29. What is sick about it? Kids learning marksmanship and firearm safety at a young age is a good thing

IMO, they will be far less likely to get into trouble with firearms than if they were taught nothing about them. I'd rather see kids engaged in hunting or competitive shooting than doing drugs - wouldn't you?

[laundry_queen]

41. Let's just say

I don't think it's a good activity for kids, it normalizes violence, IMO (and your false equivalency - shooting or doing drugs - is silly. There are umpteen things kids can get engaged in that don't involve guns.)

[badtoworse]

49. Competitive shooting is not violent and requires a lot of practice and discipline to get good at it.

The process of doing that, i.e. commiting to get good at something and following through, is a good experience for a young person. Hunting, also not violent, develops skills and good qualities in a young person: Gun safety, marksmanship, respect for the environment (including the game you are hunting) and sportsmanship are all things that are developed when one learns to hunt properly. In my view, these are all desirable things for a young person to learn.

Where do you see the violence in these activities?

[KittyWampus]

95. you don't know what you are talking about. Europeans hunt too.

[laundry_queen]

136. Who said anything about hunting? nt

[Historic NY]

20. Maybe the parents of a 4yoa kid think diferently now.........

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2013/05/01/my-first-rifle-kid-shot/2126431/

How do you expect the kids to be responsible when the parents aren't?

[Bigmack]

22. Got my first .22 at age 10...

My parents taught me weapon safety and drummed it into my head.

My father always pointed out that kids and guns don't mix well... if the kid is one of those kids who think that putting a pillow case on his back makes him Superman. Kid jumps off garage roof and breaks leg.

I own 9 firearms. In the Marine Corps I carried an M-60 and qualified with the M-14, M-16, M-40, .45ACP, and fired 60mm and 80mm mortars for familiarization.

So... I know weapons... I'm not afraid of weapons.

I want background checks, registration of all firearms, "assault" weapons ban, .50 cal sniper rifle ban, licenses for gun owners, and mandatory safety training.

[Hoyt]

26. Get em started in gun culture early. n/t

[premium]

38. Myself, my brothers and sisters were,

and every one of us turned out pretty damn good.

You just can't resist your little petty insults, can you?

[laundry_queen]

42. Anecdotal evidence is no evidence at all

Reminds me of the 'I was beat with a belt and I turned out okay' or 'my mom smoked and drank when she was pregnant with me and I'm fine'.

It perpetuates the gun culture, and it's not healthy on a societal level.

[premium]

46. Anecdotal evidence or not,

Myself, my brothers and sisters all turned out fine even though we were brought up with and owned firearms.

In the rural parts of the country, this is a very normal occurrence and most kids turn out just fine.

If you don't want to raise your kids that way, then you're free to do so, but don't pretend to know what's good for other families and how they raise their kids.

[mokawanis]

62. I know what would have been good for this family

not giving the child a gun would have been good.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022781954

I know, it's just anecdotal, but since so many in this thread are talking about handling weapons safely at an early age I though I'd provide just one anecdote where it all went to hell in a hurry. Now the kid has to bear the burden, even though mom and/or dad are the ones to blame.

I'll assume you agree that giving a gun to a 5 y.o. is wrong, so I'm wondering what the proper age is for putting a deadly weapon in a child's hands?

[premium]

68. I think that teaching a 5 yo about firearms safety is no problem,

but don't put a firearm in their hands until age 8 under strict supervision, like I was taught, as were my brothers and sisters.

[Hoyt]

107. Yeah maybe, but promoting guns with pink colors -- like a toy -- is a problem.

Or how about the tactical weapons ads that manufacturers and gun stores/traffickers use to pique yahoos interests. Fortunately, this country is not a war zone, no matter how hard the NRA and gun nuts work to make it appear so.

[premium]

111. Ok,

I agree with you about making them look like toys, not something I approve of, but weapons ads directed at adults, no big deal. Adults are capable of making a choice on whether or not to buy a firearm due to an ad they saw.

And I know this country isn't a war zone, been there, done that, however, there are some sections in the big cities that are almost war zones.

[Hoyt]

132. Problem is, those attracted to so-called tactical weapons aren't rational.

Those sections you consider a "war zone," are pretty easy to avoid. So you don't need a bunch of guns because they exist.

And, they really aren't as dangerous as the gotta-have-a-gun-in-our-pants-to-defend-ourselves-crowd believes.

[Lizzie Poppet]

48. Agreed: anecdotal evidence isn't compelling.

Broad pools of statistical data, on the other hand, carry real weight. Literally millions of children are taught shooting and are given firearms. Millions. There are fewer than 900 firearms-related accidental deaths per year in the US...including all age groups.

[snooper2]

73. did you sell your guns yet?

[RushIsRot]

34. Oh god, oh god, oh god, oh god, A GUN, oh god, oh god, oh god, oh god!!!!111!

[maxsolomon]

50. All of you who learned to shoot at EIGHT:

You weren't fucking FOUR. or FIVE. You weren't in KINDERGARTEN.

You also probably didn't have unsupervised access to a LOADED rifle.

There's a difference, and the difference is CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE.

[premium]

51. And what criminal negligence is this company committing?

Are they advocating for unsupervised access to a loaded rifle for 4-5 year olds?
I read their website and I can't find anything like that.

[maxsolomon]

80. PARENTS are criminally negligent.

the manufacterer isn't negligent - their wonderful product worked as advertised. it's just morally repugnant to the majority of americans.

[LanternWaste]

58. I suppose it was merely a matter of time before the marketing guys in the weapons industry

I suppose it was merely a matter of time before the marketing guys in the weapons industry realized that targeting specific demographics with new, shiny, colorful irrelevancies would allow them to sell more weapons, and thus have that much more control over the senators and congressmen in the industry's back pocket to write or repeal laws which benefit the industry.

[neverforget]

140. Have to get them started early so when they're older they can buy bigger, more powerful weapons

and increase profits for the gun manufacturers.

[Canuckistanian]

59. This is sick

[Deep13]

60. Odd looking for a youth rifle.

There's nothing wrong with shooting sports. With a single-shot .22, use needs to be accompanied by close supervision. My best friend had a single-shot .22 since age 10, but until he grew up, he only used it under his Dad's supervision who instilled the need for great care in him.

[geomon666]

64. What, no Hello Kitty ones?

Oh and you've got to love the Gun Defense Force coming out. 'Well I learned at 8 and I taught my children to shoot and kill at that age too, so there's nothing wrong with it.' Well bully for you man. You know maybe and this is just my personal opinion of course, but perhaps if we taught our kids something like appreciation for the fine arts instead of how to shoot and kill before puberty then maybe, just maybe, we wouldn't have the insane out of control gun fetishism that we do have in this country.

[Lizzie Poppet]

67. "insane, out of control"

"...then maybe, just maybe, we wouldn't have the insane out of control gun fetishism that we do have in this country."

Which is why all those millions and millions of children who are taught to shoot go on to commit gun violence, and we have millions of gun-related deaths and injuries every year.

Oh, wait...

[geomon666]

69. Oh I'm sure one day we'll have millions

Of course by then I'm sure the attitude will change from 'well we have millions of gun deaths now but at least we don't have billions'.

[premium]

71. Generations and generations of kids grew up using firearms

safely without going on killing sprees, care to explain that?

[geomon666]

72. No, I don't care to explain

And obviously, some of those kids from those generations went on some killing sprees.

[Lizzie Poppet]

74. Except that the trend is actually downwards.

And even if the firearms-related deaths trend were flat, we'd have to have a population of approximately 10 billion in order to hit even the one million mark.

[Deep13]

76. Hello Kitty AR15

[shireen]

65. whatever the age ...

teaching to shoot must be accompanied by safety instructions. When handling a gun, always treat it as a loaded weapon, even if it's not. Check if the gun is loaded when you pick it up, even if you know it's empty. When handling it, always point it in a safe direction where it won't hit an unintended target. Guns must always be stored in a safe place, loaded or not, out of reach of kids. These things must become second nature, a habit whenever handling any firearm. Reinforce safety steps over and over and over.

I really hope parents who teach kids to shoot at a young age pay attention to this tragedy. Gun safety must be drilled into the entire family.

Ironically, these safety steps were pounded into my head at a NRA class on handling firearms. They have excellent grassroots educational programs. Anyone new to guns should attend their classes. (Yeah, i know their leadership is nuts, but don't assume the same for many at the grassroots.)

[premium]

70. Execellent post.

Everything you say is true and I hope everyone here reads it.
That's how myself, and my brothers and sisters were raised, firearms saftey was constantly drilled into us by our father.

[NickB79]

75. My wife wants me to buy one of those for our daughter when she's older

But I have a single-pump pellet rifle (really not powerful enough to do more than plink cans at 50 feet) that she can use until she's a little more mature to handle a "real" gun: I was thinking around 9-10 yr old. And no matter what she's shooting, she will ALWAYS be supervised, and the guns unloaded and locked up when we're done.

[Matariki]

78. On my family's farm, I started shooting guns around age 8

BUT WE WERE ***ALWAYS*** SUPERVISED BY AN ADULT.

The guns were kept locked away otherwise. And we were taught to NEVER NEVER NEVER point them at people.

[Courtesy Flush]

84. Imagine if they marketed vodka to kids nm

[LanternWaste]

85. There would most likely be be a rather vocal defense of that also...

There would most likely be be a rather vocal defense of that also... with the caveat being as long as the kids were supervised and trained in drinking vodka (because so many rural Americans were raised that way).

[justiceischeap]

88. Hey, at least they're made in the USA

that seems to be about the only thing made in the USA anymore... weaponry. (I being hyperbolic).

[malaise]

90. What color is the casket for the two year old?

Morons all.

[Lint Head]

93. I was never taught by my parents how to kill anything.

[Skittles]

99. +1

[NickB79]

105. That's a shame, really

Growing up on a family farm and having relatives that hunted on our land, I was taught EXACTLY where my food came from, including the meat we put on the table. It gave me a profound respect for where my meals came from, and also an understanding that food doesn't just appear in nice, sanitary plastic packages at the grocery store.

It also made me appreciate how much more healthy it is to grow your own vegetables, raise and slaughter your own livestock, and hunt for meat in the fall.

Sometimes I wonder if this country's obesity problem stems in part from people not realizing just how much suffering the cows go through to give them their McDonald's cheeseburgers, or how much crap (sometimes literally) you eat when you buy fast food and pre-processed junk.

[newmember]

109. An older case but worth repeating in this thread , Parents who let their children shoot guns please

Be careful

[premium]

121. Now that is ridiculous,

no kid should be shooting a machine gun, even with parental supervision.

[newmember]

125. I'm not sure they had the right person on trial

As much as I feel for the loss of the child that father is as responsible as the man who organized the shoot

[premium]

127. Agreed.

He should have never allowed his son to even touch that weapon.

[Deep13]

134. re-e-eally stupid.

A .22 youth rifle is a far cry from an Uzi or whatever it is, and even that needs strict supervision. Seriously, one wouldn't let a kid that age run a table saw or a welding torch.

[Hekate]

135. In the 1950s my brother and I got cap guns to go with our little cowboy and cowgirl outfits

You know -- cap guns. Noise, smoke, running around in our cowboy hats with the fringes flapping on our shirts, that kind of thing. "Bang! bang! You're dead. Now get up and let's run around some more."

Jesus Christ on a trailer hitch -- that's what you give to 5 and 6 year olds. Cap guns.

My dad would sometimes burst out in a little song of his own invention: "Oh, the world is full of idiots!"

It sure is, Dad. It sure is.

[Jennicut]

139. That is what my brother and I played with in the 80's.

Cap guns, then my brother used his neighbor's BB gun at 12, 13, 14. I would never give a gun to a child under 8, preferably 10. They just aren't mature enough. I have a 3rd grader and a 2nd grader so I know how kids under 10 are. They can be a little flighty at times and don't think things through all the way before they act. With good supervision I don't really have an issue with kids learning to hunt and use guns. Safety is key.

[Hekate]

141. Right -- I get that. I also get that their brains are simply not done developing...

... so that things like serious injury and death don't register. That's why cap guns -- because under a certain age they really do expect someone to get up and play again. I think you and I agree about age-appropriateness and supervision.