WTF? No, seriously, WTF?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

Sorry if this has been posted already but "My First Rifle"? Are they out of their mind?

I too have both a 5 year old and a 2 year old, and even if I was an avid hunter I wouldn't dream of letting them anywhere near my own gun, let alone giving them one of their own!

Five years old. Who gives a 5 year old their own gun? Who markets guns specifically to children, whether for hunting or not?

Sick, sick, sick story.
______________________________________________________________________________
http://news.yahoo.com/5-old-boy-shoots-2-old-sister-ky-161229579.html

5-year-old boy shoots 2-year-old sister in Ky.
By TRAVIS LOLLER | Associated Press

BURKESVILLE, Ky. (AP) — A 5-year-old boy accidentally shot his 2-year-old sister to death in rural southern Kentucky with a rifle he had received as a gift last year, authorities said.

The children's mother was home at the time of the shooting Tuesday afternoon but had stepped out to the front porch for a few minutes and "she heard the gun go off," Cumberland County Coroner Gary White said. He said the rifle was kept in a corner and the family didn't realize a bullet was left inside it.

White told the Lexington Herald-Leader the boy received the .22-caliber rifle as a gift.

[peace13]

1. Too bad the gun didn't come with a flak jacket and helmet for sissy!

This is sad on all levels!

[loli phabay]

2. its a case of dumb parents, my six year old has her own .22 but its kept locked up until i take her

Also she also gets that guns are not toys and she has seen what a 12 gauge or 5.56 or my .40 cal can do. These parents are responsible for not securing the weapon and also ensuring it was made safe.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

7. With all due respect, your 6 year old doesn't need a gun, either.

Other than perhaps a BB gun.

I'm glad you secure it and try to install some sense into her about it, but that's way too young IMHO.

[loli phabay]

8. i respect your opinion, i just disagree. part of it is as there are weapons around her this takes a

The mystique and she knows if she wants to target shoot she just needs to ask, rather than try to be sneaky. Her older brother is not as interested as she is in hunting and fishing so this is part of her learning curve.

[tblue]

13. Do her friends' parents know

before they allow their children to come play at her house? I wouldn't let my kid go over there. Heck, I wouldn't go over there myself. I think visitors have a right to know that there are deadly weapons in the house and children who use them. I'd never forgive that family for not telling me and letting me decide if I want to set foot in such a household.

[SunSeeker]

16. +1

[obxhead]

20. I guess you missed the locked up part.

I'm willing to bet there are firearms safely stored in many places you or your children go.

[tblue]

39. When my child was young, I asked.

I have a right to know. I don't care if they're locked. You might, but I don't. Kids are smart and know how to do what they're forbidden to do if they really want to b

[loli phabay]

44. i got no problem with parents asking and no issue if they are uncomfortable about it

I dont force my beliefs on them and respect what they decide. So far it has never been an issue as pretty much all my kids friends live in homes with weapons.

[tblue]

46. And he's proud of it.

Oy.

[loli phabay]

25. pretty much everybody has guns in the mountains and they see me carrying every day so expect

They know there are guns in my house.

[morningfog]

28. Bullshit. I'm from the mountains.

[loli phabay]

31. and no one around you has guns i find that hard to believe. everybody i know hunts or deals with va

[morningfog]

32. You said pretty much everyone. Not the same as no one.

And no, I don't see any assholes carrying one around regularly on display, thankfully. I guess I am in less paranoid, better educated circles.

[loli phabay]

35. yup pretty much everybody i know has guns in their home, i can think of only one family who dont

Not everyone carries concealed and i think im the only person i my area who openly carries.

[tblue]

40. Tell me where you live

so I don't ever go there. No snark intended, I just choose not to go where everybody has a gun. Why would I knowingly do a dumb thing like that?

[loli phabay]

42. its called rural america, its a big place thats hard to miss.

[morningfog]

47. Oh, you're THAT GUY. LOL

[loli phabay]

50. in some ways yes, i open carry as part of my profession, and conceal off duty.

[Pelican]

86. Right...

No educated person owns or carries a weapon...

[caseymoz]

21. Does a 6-year old have the hand eye coordination for that?

If she doesn't, she might completely lose interest in shooting after missing targets so many times.

[loli phabay]

30. she has one of the small .22 and shes pretty good with it. sometimes she has difficulty with the bo

But har safety is good and she makes safe without any prompting if she has an issue.

[morningfog]

33. I hope we don't end up reading about your family in the paper. Jesus, how stupid.

[tblue]

45. Dear morningfog,

I hate guns.

What sane person would ever let a child have a gun? I teach 5-7 year olds. They're not exactly mature and responsible all the time. Some are hypersensitive. Some throw tantrums. Some buck authority. Some never listen. And some basically good kids once in a while just have a really bad day.

[caseymoz]

64. Sounds like you've got a lot of confidence in her

What's her percentage of hitting the bulls eye at thirty feet? Or her percentage of hitting the target? Can she even hit a first basemen with a baseball at that distance?

With a firearm, all she has to do is fail once. It's a bit like scoring 99 percent the test and paying with your life (or someone else's). Plus, she might read your confidence and get overconfident with it herself. Many gun accidents seem to be caused by overconfidence.

For myself, I would never give a six-year-old a gun. Not only is it a risk, but their motor development isn't there, and practicing with it won't give them much benefit anyway. Ten would be the minimal, for me.

But you're playing the percentages here. I can be totally right and you can be lucky, or you can be right and be totally unlucky. I'm just giving you a general estimate of the risks verses the possible returns.

[loli phabay]

65. i have confidence in her how else will she be able to become all that she can otherwise

Her shooting is improving with the use of the smaller rifle, she is consistantly on target and strives to improve as she does in all things. She already is a confident swimmer and horse rider and importantly she is very aware of her limits. She is already pretty good at fishing and is very intuitive at setting snares. As ive said many times before its down to the individual kid as her older brother needs much more supervision in most things including my hand on the rifle when he wants to shoot.

[yoyossarian]

88. My hat's off to you!... but why'd you wait so long?

Six years old is MUCH too late to start your kids on their life-long relationship with firearms and other weapons. I remember growing up in a hollow log in the woods south o' Cleveland, OH. EVERYONE was locked and loaded at all times, from right 'round age 2. Plus, we started drinking at around 3 or 4... no, not in the afternoon--3 or 4 years old. This was and still is Ohio, for cryin' out loud! We were all taught to make traps like in Rambo! I almost got killed by one of those things when I was 7, but luckily I was armed, and when the bunji stakes came flyin' at me, I SHOT 'EM ALL DEAD! Ha! Stupid stakes!
Violence is part of the universe. The world is a stage, and we're all the victims. Get used to it early, that's what I say!
I feel cheated, though. I had to wait until I could talk before anyone would allow me to have my own .38 special.
Y'know, if they gave fetuses guns, maybe THAT would stop all this abortion baloney!
Ah rest mah face.
Sincerely,

Bubba Rum Raisin
Hillbilly Yogi For Hire

[loli phabay]

89. lol great snark. bravo

[dogknob]

91. Someone actually said the thing about arming fetuses...

Steven Stockman, the douche-nugget Congress-Creep who invited Ted Nugent to the SOTU.

[loli phabay]

38. wow im honoured by your post, dont really care either way what you think as i just disagree

[morningfog]

29. You gave far more than the respect due.

[Bake]

80. I wouldn't give a 6-yr old a BB gun!

And I, as we all know, am a noted gun humper (at least acc. to some here) ...

This story made me say WTF also.



Bake

[desertdevil]

19. autopsy photos?

Oh, so you've shown your six year old autopsy photos of the damage various firearms can do to the human body?

[loli phabay]

26. why the need when she has seen the effects on various animals. she gets it, some kids might not.

[tblue]

69. Oh SNAP!

Welcome to DU! Hope you've got a sense of humor.

[morningfog]

27. Wow! NO parent of the year award for you. That is fucking stupid.

[1StrongBlackMan]

56. I respectfully submit …

a 6 year old does not “get” anything with respect to safety; a 6 year does not have the capacity to make (well) reasoned decisions; finally, I sincerely hope you, your family and your (and her) friends are spared the experience of realizing this.

[loli phabay]

58. i disagree, she knows not to touch fire, or get to close to drops or to approach dogs

There are lots of safety stuff tbat kids know, and every kid is different. As ive said she is very good with her safety when shooting and is well supervised.

[1StrongBlackMan]

59. Okay ...

I hope you are right.

[tblue]

68. 1StrongBlackMan,

Hey, I teach 5-7 year olds. Trust me, they have to be reminded what to do and not do CONSTANTLY. They like to push the limits and see what they can get away with. Not only that, but some have bad tempers and some get upset for the littlest thing. Some defy authority and some don't listen to anybody. Even the 'good' kids can snap or have a really really bad day. A situation at home or on the playground can bring out the worst in anybody.

I do not get how people can have guns so freely around children. I read about kids being shot every damn day. Peace, my brother.

[Lint Head]

3. I was never taught by my parents how to kill anything.

[RebelOne]

6. I was never taught by parents to kill anything.

And I taught my kids the same.

[tblue]

14. Same here. I teach my kid to love

and respect all living things. Who knew that was so unusual?

[TheMadMonk]

60. So? Vegan or hypocrit?

If you eat meat, chances are high that your supper was treated a whole lot less ethically than that of a person who hunts/kills their own dinner.

[Ikonoklast]

61. Or kills animals for sport, just for the thrill of the kill.

That's ethical.

Nope.


And spare me that there are few "hunters" thay do such a thing, because I know plenty of slob hunters that go out in the woods just to kill something.

[TheMadMonk]

62. Not what I said. And I've got no time for such A-wipes.

I said commercially produced (factory farmed) food animals are very probably treated less ethically than that killed by an individual AND TAKEN HOME TO BE EATEN.

Indiscriminate yahoos are a completely different topic of discussion.

Care to misrepresent my words again?

[tblue]

67. I. DO. NOT. EAT. MEAT.

Who you calling A-wipe?

[TheMadMonk]

84. NOT. YOU! Please get some reading comprehension lessons.

"Such A-wipes" was referring to shooters who "hunt" for thrills.

Fair enough that I did prime you to be a little offended. I was a bit on the sarky side.

On the other hand, I've done a bit of "contract killing" cleaning up after the pets of a squeamish neighbour, when said pets had finished playing. A neighbour who happily ate meat, but couldn't/wouldn't even slice up a whole rump, because a chunk of meat that large reminded them that it came from an animal.

And a friend's daughter claims vegetarianism, but dresses head to toe in leather, and snarfs processed pork products when she thinks no-one's looking. Don't give a stuff that she does. Do give a stuff about her holier than thou attitude, and criticism of our dietary habits.

I'm not a hunter, haven't shot a gun since I was a kid, when I did, I didn't shoot at animals, because I knew I couldn't aim well enough to count on a clean kill. However, when needs must, I do it myself, and I do it immediately. I don't leave an animal suffering needlessly.

[tblue]

85. Ya know.

I had a delayed 'Aha!' moment where, much later. I realized who you were speaking of. But you sure seem to enjoy putting people down, even as you're telling them you weren't putting then down. If I ran the zoo, I wouldn't let a loose cannon like you anywhere near a deadly weapon. Only people with a modicum of patience and basic regard for others should ever legally get their hands on a gun without strict supervision. I don't know you from Adam, and I am basing this solely on what you've posted here. Please find a way to control your reflexive need to inflict harm. Get help!

[TheMadMonk]

87. Which part of I haven't used a gun since childhood did you miss?

Which part of I never shot at animals, because I was not sufficiently confident in my own ability?

On the very small handful of occasions over a period of thirty five years where I have killed an animal I did it with my bare hands because it was very clearly NECESSARY and that any delay in acting would serve no purpose but to prolong suffering: A clearly paralysed duck bleeding from both ends; A wild turkey pullet(?) completely denuded of feathers; A rabbit (vermin where I live anyway) with a broken back; A lizzard with it's guts spilling out; A rat (vermin anywhere) with half it's skull bitten off.

(Disclosure: While working in a chaff (horse food) mill, the killing of mice and rats (vermin) was a part of the job description. I took no pleasure in it, I did it because it was necessary and I fully understood the consequences of allowing them to breed without restraint.)

I've also taken more than a few animals with recoverable injuries to the vet. When my mother's Dachy (which hated me with a passion) suffered a prolapsed disk and was paralysed from the middle of her back down, I was the one who detected the most minute evidence of vestigial feeling in her tail. AND I was the one who, for a month, carried said ultimately ungrateful hound to her food and water, and who carried her outside every six hours to "wring out her bladder".

And "cool story bro" the moment it recovered (full function BTW TYVM) that bloody dog went right back to hating me whenever there was a familliar human being present to observe. If I was alone, or in company with someone unaware of our earlier antipathy that same ruddy dog squirmed in my lap like a bleedin' puppy.


It's not a reflexive need to do harm, its an occasional lashing out at what looks like: a) persistent unconscious misreading of my words; b) clearly deliberate (and again generally persistent, before I respond) misreading and twisting of my words; or c) clear evidence that a person has not read beyond the title of one single post in an entire discussion, but weighs in with a catagorical opinion which was explicitly ruled out in the OP or one of the first few replies.

Appologies for the flippant accusatory tone earlier. Put it down to a thread hijack in which we are both participating, and the unconscious sanctimony of too many expressed opinions. I too was taught to respect all living creatures. I was also taught that if a certain unpleasant action was necessary, then best ethical practice was to do it yourself, to do it swiftly and to never extend suffering needlessly, simply to palm off on another anything you could and should do yourself.

[tblue]

66. I don't eat meat.

You want to see my papers? What are we talking about? Oh yeah, guns. But what I eat matters to you. Otay.

[laundry_queen]

23. You know what else is shocking?

My parents were able to teach me gun safety without even *GASP* buying me a gun! Fucking amazing isn't it?

[loli phabay]

36. what you were taught was one part of gun safety, the old dont touch tell an adult

And thats good, but gun safety has many aspects to it including how to properly carry a gun and use them. My kids are surrounded by guns daily and know not to touch unless specifically told and even then you have to physically show them the weapon is made safe before they will.

[laundry_queen]

41. I was taught much more than that.

I think you expect too much of your kids, BTW. So many people overestimate their children. Surrounded by guns daily, hey? Oy.

[Crunchy Frog]

83. Well, hoping that you and your family

don't end up in another story like this on DU.

[Bake]

82. My dad (rest his soul) taught me NEVER TO TOUCH HIS GUN.

That was one of the very few things that would get me an ass-whuppin'.

Bake

[DevonRex]

4. And no charges because no negligence. OMG. A loaded gun within reach of a baby!

And no negligence? You have to house proof for chemicals but not for loaded weapons now? Even IF a person is so stupid as to give a rifle to then 4-year-old, by WHAT stretch of the imagination is it NOT negligence to leave it propped in a corner and NOT KNOW IT WAS FUCKING LOADED WHEN YOU HAVE A 2-YEAR-OLD??????

[kimbutgar]

5. The parents will be living the rest of their lifes with this mistake.

But I hope the child protective services looks into this negligence and lack of foresight and prosecute the parents. The parents stupidity of giving a gun to a 5 year old who is barely out of diapers is child abuse. But a night especially when they are in bed trying to go to sleep, this will haunt them the rest of their lives.

My Mother had a cousin who found his parents gun and while playing with it shot his little brother when they were 5 and 3. This was in the 1930's and people had rifles in their homes as protection in the south against the KKK. My aunt was never the same and my Mother's cousin was a haunted man the rest of his life. I remember him as a handsome but very sad man. He was married had two kids lived the American dream but was always sad. My Mother said he never got over what he did at that young age

[marions ghost]

10. Thanks for that

sad story. It wasn't his fault.

Parents who leave guns accessible to kids are not fit to be parents.

[Arctic Dave]

9. You have to be one of the dumbest motherfuckers in the world to

give a 4 year a gun.

A .22 can and does kill people. To all the fucking morons out there, a gun is a lethal weapon.

[Orrex]

11. Whatever you do, don't question the wisdom of giving firearms to grade-schoolers

It's a cultural thing, apparently.

[Jennicut]

12. The boy was in nursery school at the time, he was 4!

My daughters are 7 and 8, in 2nd and 3rd grade and would not be able to handle having their own guns in their room. As a parent of grade school kids, I just don' t get how naive and stupid these parents can be. Lock the gun up, check to make sure it is unloaded. Common sense, which these parents apparently lacked. If you want to teach your kids about guns, teach them gun safety first.

[florida08]

15. Couldn't agree more.

Why parents are in such a hurry to rob their kids of their innocence is just astounding to me. Clearly they were not responsible enough to own guns themselves to buy one for a 5 year old. What happened to cap guns? What are earth was the thinking behind it? They are not toys.

[baldguy]

17. In answer to your question: Yes, they are out of their mind.

[eissa]

18. Maybe my parenting is out of whack

with the rest of the country -- my kids were playing with legos and learning to read independently at that age. I simply cannot fathom giving a child a deadly weapon like that. It just astounds me. And I'm not buying the "it's part of the culture" argument. It's also "part of the culture" in certain parts of the world to marry off 6-year old girls to 40-year old men. It doesn't make either "cultural" act right.

[laundry_queen]

24. +1,000,000

As I posted in another thread, just because it is common and 'normal' in US culture, doesn't make it healthy or right. Sometimes you cannot see how fucked up a cultural norm is until you gain some distance. I used to think my fucked up family was totally normal...until I moved out. Now I'm like, "WTF is WRONG with them??" They still think they are normal - and right about everything.

This also reminds me of where I used to live - in northern Canada in remote areas...it was the 'culture' to let young kids ride quads and snowmobiles whenever they wanted...every year kids died from crashing/flipping their ATVs (and in those small towns everyone knows the kid). In fact, our 6 yo neighbor ran over my daughter with a snowmobile in our own yard...I was just opening the back door to yell at my daughter to get in when I saw this kid driving around (as bad as that was, the parents were also nowhere to be found) and at that moment, he knocked my daughter down and ran over her leg. Thankfully the snow was soft and deep and she was bundled up so no injury. I made all the kids go home (and mine had to come in). The dad marched the 6 year old over to my house to apologize for, in the dad's own words, "being a total idiot" with his snowmobile. "Stupid little shit" I think he said to me....all I could think was, "He's fucking *6*, the stupid little shit is NOT the 6 year old..." I remember my doctor lamenting that people just kept telling him it was part of the culture...yeah, they weren't the ones trying to put the poor kids back together when they crashed. It really bothered him. Stupid parents.

[magical thyme]

22. actually the boy was 4 years old when they gave him the gun

a year ago. Amazing. Just amazing. And they're calling it an accident and not filing charges.

[peacebird]

34. Sad for the boy, who will live with this. And for his little sister who won't.

But these parents are criminally negligent fr not securing the childs gun - not checking it for ammo, and not locking it up.

Not to mention being MORONS for giving a 4 yr old a gun AND NOT keeping it secure when they were not there with the child.

CRIMINALLY NEGLIGENT. Yes, they are hurt and sad, but the two year old is DEAD.

[tblue]

48. At least it was their kid

instead of some other family's. Makes me very sad to say there is anything halfway acceptable to come out of this story. But at least it wasn't somebody else who had to bury their baby girl. Ugh. That poor little girl! And the brother who killed her. Oh my gosh, he's scarred for life.

[peacebird]

49. sad all around, but the parents should face criminal charges for their negligence.

[tblue]

53. What kind of country

do we live in if they don't face criminal charges? Do gun owners have absolutely no accountability for anything?

[Robyn66]

90. Its the same one

where parents dont go to jail for denying their children medical care on the basis of religion-criminal!

[Jenoch]

43. My brother has three boys

now ages 18, 21, and 23. They all got .22 rifles as infants. This is not a joke. After each son was born, he went out and bought them a .22 rifle. Those rifles are still in the gun safe. I don't think any of them got to shoot their rifles until they were 8 - 10 years old and then they went to the police shooting range outside of town to shoot. My brother also has taught the MNDNR gun safety program for over 20 years. Each son went along with his dad for several years to those gun safety sessions. By the time they were 12 and old enough so they needed the gun safety permit, they knew the material so well they probably could have taught the class. The point is, a child never really owns his own gun. It needs to be locked up and then only brought out with proper adult supervision.

[peacebird]

51. Nothing wrong with teaching kids gun safety & giving them guns. But the parents are responsible

for ensuring that the weapons are safe and secure, like your brother did. Only available with adult supervision.

[Jenoch]

54. I don't understand why anyone would

disagree with what my brother did with guns and his family.

[peacebird]

55. I do not disagree with your brothers approach. I do still think these parents should face criminal

charges for leaving loaded weapons available to toddlers. Or for basic LACK of gun safety in a home with toddlers....

[Jenoch]

57. I agree with you.

Too often the attitude from the prosecutor's office is the 'they have suffered enough approach'. I don't agree with that. There needs to be prosecution of parents in these crimes along with an educational program telling parents why guns need to be locked up. In Minneapolis a few years ago the police depaetment even gave away trigger locks.

There is an ongoing case in Minneapolis where a father is being prosecuted for leaving a loaded handgun in the bedroom. One of his young children (a five year old I believe) shot and killed a sibling. The father did not belive the child knew about the gun. Even five year olds know just about everything in a household.

[Hoyt]

77. Running out to buy a gun to commemorate a child's birth seems strange and displaced.

That money could have been put in a fund for kid's education, or something. Or give it to hungry person.

[Jenoch]

78. You are correct. Those other things could be done. Have you done them?

[liberal N proud]

52. God, guns and babies

Oh and don't tread on me.

[ileus]

63. I didn't get my son his first 22/410 combo until he was 6.

He didn't start shooting until he was 6.

Like all our hobby firearms it stays locked up unless we're at the range or in the woods.

The only firearm that should be loaded inside the home is your SD firearm, and that should never be out of arms length when unlocked.

Safety first.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

70. Why so late?

I started my daughter when she was 3.

[ileus]

71. I have a friend the youtubed his 3yo

Shooting his suppressed p22...I thought it was a bit young it's his kid.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

72. How precious!!!!

[ileus]

73. It was a pretty cute father daughter moment

but IMHO 3 is a bit young to truly enjoy shooting.

My kids (8&10) love range day, but at 3-5 I don't think they would have appreciated shooting like they do now.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

75. So sweet, so precious! Puppies and flowers and shit!

If only her sense of enjoyment wasn't so limited!

[Politicalboi]

79. LOL!

Why not 6 shooters and diapers. Helps make them legs strong, and gives them something to teethe on to boot.

[jmg257]

74. When I was growing up, each kid got to stalk and kill their own bear

I remember having the BEST 'show and tell' project in the 1st grade! Mom was very proud.

My sisters didn't enjoy the gutting and skinning all that much, but those bear steaks cooked up yummy in their Easy Bake Ovens.

[CountAllVotes]

76. After my father died

I found out he had guns in the house for years. He never spoke of them, he never told anyone about them and he sure as hell never said where they were located.

No one in the family (sans my late mother) knew about the guns.

Had I known they were in the house, he would have gotten a piece of mind re: this and, he knew it too.

Stupid is as stupid does as they say.

If you have a gun in your house, be smart and STFU about it!!!!!

[maxsolomon]

81. Who? Americans. Americans who do things out of Spite.

You say I can't give a 5 year old a loaded firearm?

I'll buy my zygote a firearm.

In your face, fuggin librul.