General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums***WARNING GRAPHIC*** Police Ofiicers caught off guard by heavily armed offender.
There are two things I hate most as a cop...Domestic disturbances and traffic stops. Either one can turn ugly in a second! And this video shows just that...action happens at about the 1:45 mark. Viewer discretion is advised. Officers survived but were wounded.
[link:
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)On edit - from the link the op gave to another poster:
On March 10, dash cam video showed Gilkerson being pulled over by Middlefield police officers Savage and Thomas for failing to stop at the intersection of East High Street and North State Avenue.
JH19059
(90 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)I don't see what he did wrong traffic-wise. The cop car turned around to stop him, though.
JH19059
(90 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)And can't you turn right on red in Ohio? Plus the curved lane - the red light would not apply. The cops seem to have the red light before they turn, so I was looking for someone oncoming - from the van's right.
treestar
(82,383 posts)It is not for running a red light, but for failing to stop - there is a stop sign in the curved turning lane.
On March 10, dash cam video showed Gilkerson being pulled over by Middlefield police officers Savage and Thomas for failing to stop at the intersection of East High Street and North State Avenue.
Read more: http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/oh_geauga/prosecutor-middlefield-police-officers-acted-in-self-defense-in-fatal-shooting-of-james-gilkerson#ixzz2SSO073E4
Like you said, that turned ugly in a hurry. Is there any news link to go with it that you can post?
JH19059
(90 posts)Here's a link not sure if it's showing up coreectly.
[link:http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/oh_geauga/prosecutor-middlefield-police-officers-acted-in-self-defense-in-fatal-shooting-of-james-gilkerson|
Response to JH19059 (Original post)
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Response to devilgrrl (Reply #3)
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JH19059
(90 posts)uppityperson
(115,681 posts)John1956PA
(2,659 posts)One officer sustained a gunshot wound to his hand.
NutmegYankee
(16,201 posts)And she lost her index finger.
justanidea
(291 posts)Why else would the guy keep shouting "Kill me".
Selfish prick. Too much of a coward to take his own life so he forces someone else to do it for him.
galileoreloaded
(2,571 posts)sakabatou
(42,186 posts)Warpy
(111,383 posts)and refused to drop his gun even when he'd been wounded and was too busy crying to take any more pot shots.
It would have been a lot less painful to have eaten one of his own guns and saved a cop losing her index finger.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)I always associate that with someone just waving a gun, not opening up on the cops like that.
Beacool
(30,253 posts)But the guy was a danger to others. They found an arsenal in a bag in the car. Who knows what he had been planning?
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)DrDan
(20,411 posts)explain again why a limit here is not a good idea
JH19059
(90 posts)davepc
(3,936 posts)Would be sure to follow any and all magazine limit laws.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)should we do away with stop signs? and laws surrounding income tax?
How about drunk driving? Eliminate those laws?
Evergreen Emerald
(13,071 posts)We should not pass a law because criminals won't follow it? I Never understood that argument.
dementianurse
(15 posts)If it's a law that places the law-abiding citizen at a disadvantage compared to those who would break the same law to harm them, whether or not it would be effective in stopping criminals might be something worth considering before passing it.
Driving drunk doesn't protect or give one an advantage over other drunk drivers. Tax evasion doesn't work as a defense against the deleterious effects of other tax evader.
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)Last edited Sun May 5, 2013, 10:36 PM - Edit history (1)
Drunk Driving laws are harsh and super expensive and absolutely are a deterrent....
How many lives are saved because a person who plans to party on a particular night calls a friend
or cab rather than drive...
Response to busterbrown (Reply #77)
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busterbrown
(8,515 posts)Someone who intended to drive drunk home from a party and instead walked because his fear of a D.U.I.......was so drunk that he walked into the street, a car swerved to avoid hitting him and inadvertently hit another pedestrian. The strict laws lead to the injury of a person who they were
intended to protect....But overall they overwhelmingly help those who they were intended to help,
innocent people who are driving around with their families or people who are just going for a walk..
I feel all laws which regulate firearms are more important to the safety of the overall community
than the consequences of occasionally being a disadvantage to the law abiding citizen .
I think its a number thing..
Sorry for the misunderstanding of your first post..
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Because killers don't follow the law anyways.
Right?
dementianurse
(15 posts)We outlaw the purpose for which it is used.
As a law abiding citizen I am perfectly within my rights to kill if someone else is trying to take my life. A blanket law that made all killing illegal would place the innocent person at a distinct disadvantage against those killers who would disregard it. That's why we have to carefully weigh rights against restrictions to ensure they don't unduly place a burden on the law abider compared to those who would likely ignore the law.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Just sayin'
dementianurse
(15 posts)If grenades and RPGs were in common use against innocent citizens, then that might be true. In fact, I'd say it's definitely true that if criminals were shooting RPGs at me, I'd want something equal or better than to defend myself with.
Of course in that case we'd probably be in a state of war so all bets would be off anyway.
As it stands now, grenades and RPGs are almost impossible for the common criminal to get and are not particularly useful to them in any event, so laws are easier to enforce and have little negative impact on the average citizen.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)A half-fast gun proliferates' argument if I've ever heard one.
Just sayin'
dementianurse
(15 posts)And my argument is not nearly as half-fast as proclaiming that since we allow people to defend themselves with guns under the assumption that crooks will get them regardless, we might as well legalize grenades and RPGs too.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)That assumption and the arm race brilliance was yours.
Just sayin'
dementianurse
(15 posts)Whatever blows yer skirt up.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Enjoy your stay.
Response to Major Nikon (Reply #89)
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morningfog
(18,115 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)FirstLight
(13,366 posts)There was a lot of time between the pull over and him getting out of the car, aren't cops usually at the window by then? It's a good thing, cuz one of them would be dead if that were the case.
what scares me is the civilians all around too...lucky nobody got hit by any stray bullets. I saw one car actually hitting reverse and getting the fuck outta there as it was happening.
terrifying that this kind of armed nutcase is NOT a fluke, there's more of them out there than we know...
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)running his plates looking for wants and warrants.
Schema Thing
(10,283 posts)JH19059
(90 posts)ok_cpu
(2,056 posts)I know nothing about law enforcement but cannot believe how quickly they reacted. She yelled the split-second his gun could be seen.
Would they have viewed him taking his foot off the brake as a sign of trouble?
JH19059
(90 posts)If u listen very closely to the video you will hear her state that she believes he's trying to hide something and that something doesn't feel right. She knew already. Now for me him taking foot of the break would have made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. Why? Normally on "routine traffic stops" ( no such thing as a routine traffic stop) the driver normally brings the car to a complete stop and place the vehicle in park. He held the brake down until she exited the vehicle.
treestar
(82,383 posts)She reacted before I could see the gun.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Be your own undertaker? That's the name of one of the books he had.
ETA: I googled it (hope no one searches my searches!) and it is about disposing of a dead body. But supposedly is tongue in cheek and present information rather than really supposed to be showing how to do it.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Jenoch
(7,720 posts)bemildred
(90,061 posts)Although I am sure their guns were helpful to them in putting him down, and if there ever was a good shoot, that one was. That dash cam is going to save everybody a lot of trouble this time. No awkward questions.
But in any case, I was pointing put that his weapons don't seem to have done much for him but get him killed, not that the cops should not be armed.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)your posts. Of course this guy was a doofus. I don't know if he owned the gun legally or not. The photo seemed to be a booking photo.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)I'm not getting into any gun debates, I just wanted to point out that simply having a gun around doens't make you safer, it's not magic, it's made to kill, and you better know what you are doing or leave it be. People in movies wave them around like magic wands and naive viewers think its real.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)simply having a gun DID make those cops safer. What a person DOES with a gun is what makes it safe or unsafe. This guy was intent on having the cops kill him. It also appears he may have wished to take one or both of them with him. This kind of 'suicide-by-cop' is much worse than aomebody who wishes to die points an unloaded gun at a cop.
My toes are fine. It never occurred to me that you were stepping on them.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Actually, I think he planned to shoot his way out, like in the movies, and it just turned out to be harder to hit something than he expected in the circumstances, and then, at the end, realizing he had beshit himself in public, not like in the movies at all, he had them kill him.
A gun only makes you safer if you know what you are doing with it, if you don't act like a dumb ass with it. How is that different from what I said?
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)to which I replied seemed like a flippant remark without much thought.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)Downwinder
(12,869 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)I am sure you know why...bedrooms came next, master bedrooms.
This, it would be me coming a well after the shooting was over...
JH19059
(90 posts)I've been jumped on by women for arresting their boyfriends for beating them!! I would normally start moving items out of the way (vases, bowls, knives, canes, tables, etc..) without the parties involved noticing what I was doing. Hell I had a elderly gentlemen once reach behind a couch, grab a baseball bat, and almost proceed to knock out his drug dealing grandson until i I was able to snatch it from him. Sat the grandfather down talked to him and helped him throw out his son. But it could've been ugly lol....
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)11 Bravo
(23,928 posts)You stay safe, not every one around here hates LEOs.
JH19059
(90 posts)I've been coming around here since 08 but I don't post much. For the most part many here are very accepting of LEO. I've gotten much love from the members! And contrary to popular belief there are many cops that are Democrats. Hell my whole unit is made up of mostly Democrats with a few sorry ass Fox viewers strewn in. We've trained them well in keeping their mouths shut lol.
VOX
(22,976 posts)It's much appreciated. While the rest of us simply lead our lives, you're the ones who are called upon to deal with those in society who've lost the capacity to govern their own behavior, and tragically, that can be deadly at times.
Based upon what's known about the suspect in this video, it's pretty clear that a much larger tragedy was averted by these officers, who sacrificed their own safety for that of the community.
Go safely --
LiberalLoner
(9,762 posts)riqster
(13,986 posts)After several years of working with them (out of a 4 decade-+ career), LEOs are some of the sharpest, most focused, and most realistic user groups I have ever encountered.
Bless you and the other professionals you work with. Having gotten a tiny bit of insight into your world, I am amazed at the community of people that inhabit it.
Locut0s
(6,154 posts)doesn't require that kind of fire power. A low calibre gun shot even close to but not directly at the cops would be enough for suicide by cop.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Glad the officers survived.
sammytko
(2,480 posts)JH19059
(90 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts).. why there is no need for limitations of any kind on their gawd-granted and sacred 2nd A "right."
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee haw!
Initech
(100,108 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)That people do things like this?
I don't think these things happen inn say, Western Europe.
Downwinder
(12,869 posts)dangerous why are all the bullet proof vehicles at the peaceful demonstrations?
Taverner
(55,476 posts)No wonder every cop these days, from Mayberry to Montreal wears body armor
JH19059
(90 posts)LAGC
(5,330 posts)Those cops are lucky to be alive.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)But I noticed the other day that every cop I see, whether it's a small town, a big city or rural nowhere - they all wear body armor.
That can't be comfortable - and last I heard it was optional for most departments
So...that kinda scares me in a way...big way, actually...
Skeeter Barnes
(994 posts)Looks like he kept firing after getting wounded.
JH19059
(90 posts)Last edited Mon May 6, 2013, 03:28 PM - Edit history (1)
Should've clarified.. I guess the fired around 20-25 rounds now how many actually hit him the number I'm hearing is 9 as stated below by a fellow member.
Skeeter Barnes
(994 posts)Like maybe 6-10 rounds isn't necessarily enough when facing a determined/suicidal attacker.
dems_rightnow
(1,956 posts)I believe I had previously seen a story that indicated Gilkerson had been hit 9 times.
napkinz
(17,199 posts)And the NRA holds a gun-love fest
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,737 posts)My son-in-law is a cop. A detective.
He told me he's had whole shifts when his gun was out all the time.
Stay safe!
K&R
Skeeter Barnes
(994 posts)CaliforniaPeggy
(149,737 posts)Historic NY
(37,454 posts)was going like butter through the chevy police car........I wonder what ammo he had.
Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)Seems everybody's packin' in Middlefield.
Was there any sort of motive established? What , if anything, was the shooter up to?
treestar
(82,383 posts)Maybe he was on his way to murder someone. He realized the cops would notice the weapons and so perhaps thought he may as well take his stand here.
madokie
(51,076 posts)this took me back 43 plus years to when I was in 'nam.
No police officer should have to face this kind of fire power, none of them ever.