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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCharles Ramsay did a good thing, but that doesn't change that he was convicted of domestic violence
three times.
His having done a good thing doesn't make up for his being an abuser himself.
and sorry folks but I can't look at someone with that kind of record as a hero.
Charles Ramsey, the Cleveland man credited with helping Amanda Berry kick down her abductor's door, used to beat his wife and is a convicted felon, court records dug up by the Smoking Gun website show.
Ramsey's first conviction for domestic violence was in February 1997, he was found guilty a year later and was arrested again for domestic violence while awaiting sentencing, the documents show. He was also convicted of violating bail terms.
He was sentenced to six months in jail for for both domestic violence convictions.
Ramsey was again busted for domestic violence in 2003, was sentenced to a further eight months in prison and his wife filed for divorce.
<snip>
http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/08/charles-ramsey-a-convicted-wife-beater-report
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snooper2
(30,151 posts)for child fuckers as I put in my modified rules in the other thread---
Which I assume has some humanist or compassion component------
But,
You can't cut this guy a break who did his time 10 years ago and may just well be a changed man-
cali
(114,904 posts)and yes, he did a decent thing, but no I don't see him as a hero. I didn't even before I found out about this.
Several years back, I heard distressed screaming/crying from my neighbor's. I knew she was in an abusive relationship. It was late at night and I flew out of my place and pounded on their door. sure enough he had been beating on her. I took her and her little kid and brought them to my place.
I certainly don't consider myself some sort of hero for that. It was just the decent thing to do.
LooseWilly
(4,477 posts)Given the adulation he's receiving, to do so is pretty heroic, in its own right.
He's not a Marvel Superhero, granted.
He did a decent thing in a neighborhood where it's not easy to do decent things (without possible repercussions) in many cases.
Call him a hero for that or don't. I don't care... and I don't think he really does either.
randome
(34,845 posts)At DU, we see the merest fraction of a real person so we really have no idea what this man is like in person.
I never thought of him as a hero just because he helped someone who ran to him for help. But I don't think he should be denigrated for having served time. We also don't know the circumstances of his domestic violence arrests.
IMO, we should think well of him and move on, not put him on a pedestal nor in the gutter.
Agreed their are just some people who look for the worst in everything and everybody, can a man not redeem himself?
hlthe2b
(102,351 posts)Unless he is currently engaged in these behaviors, I do not believe it to be directly relevant to current events, except to bemoan how horrendously common is domestic violence and how poorly police deal with it. Perhaps his own past behavior sensitized him to the issue and allowed him to act when others might not.
He did a good thing. In the past he committed some horrendous acts. One does not wipe out the other, but he does deserve his current praise.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)It's certainly possible that he learned the errors of his ways. Jon Lennon did.
FSogol
(45,525 posts)
Even the worst among us can be capable of a heroic act. No need to begrudge Ramsey his moment.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)you have one before saving anyone!
With all the judgemental attitudes around here, it's enough to make anyone with the tiniest skeleton in their closet, pass right by anyone needing help.
Indeed
vankuria
(904 posts)
RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)Jeepers.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)start, or that if you serve your time it should be put behind you.
There are heinous crimes like pedophilia and there are those that are not heinous (not saying their good, but they are not heinous)
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Is they are completely reamed out within hours in today's communications "environment." Ain't no one, no where that won't be beat up for anything good they do. Any one of us can do a good deed, but sure enough here comes the same leveling crap.
We're all humans, and we have all screwed up in some way. That doesn't remove from us the responsibility of doing good. And it doesn't remove the rest of us from the civility to let that good deed stand.
zerosumgame0005
(207 posts)that only perfect angels can rescue people. I'll keep that in mind if I ever find myself in his position relative to you...he did his time and has not repeated those actions in 15 years. I hear he also smoked a joint once! OMG string him up!
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)Did he serve time? Pay his debt to society?
Yes.
Are you suggesting he go back to jail and serve more time because you don't think the punishment was severe enough? Too bad.
This is such unadulterated horseshit.
If his account is true, he did a very heroic act. PERIOD. Nothing ever will change that, and I, for one, refuse to join you in your ridiculous conjured outrage over a man who already paid his dues.
Just STOP!!!
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Response to heaven05 (Reply #47)
Buzz Clik This message was self-deleted by its author.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)Charles Ramsey, an imperfect being, helped rescue four people from a decade-long horrific ordeal. Good on him. Period.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Oh ...maybe it's only domestic abusers that may not help out. Of course we must punish all criminals for the rest of their lives no matter what the offence is and how much time is served. The epic fail is strong with this one.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Apparently even once you've done the time you can never do anything right again.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)In this case, he did good.
As far as the DV convictions, it looks like he already did his time and made his penance.
Unless he re-offends, I'm putting him in my Good Guy Greg pile, not my Scumbag Steve pile.
monmouth3
(3,871 posts)
Orrex
(63,221 posts)Otherwise, Mr. Ramsay might have had the impression that it's possible to pay one's debt to society and then move on to a better way of living.
MADem
(135,425 posts)People can be forgiven for crimes they've committed...can't they?
Or do we paint them with a scarlet letter even after they've paid their debt to society?
Must some people forever remain UNFORGIVEN? Or should domestic violence be a crime punishable by LIFE IN PRISON?
Inquiring minds want to know.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)Do you believe that once someone breaks the law, they can't ever do anything good again in their entire life? Would you rather have had him turn his back on Amanda Berry? Or return her to her abuser?
Pisces
(5,602 posts)Is anyone asking you to introduce your daughter to him as a potential husband? Whatever his past was he still had the courage to
get involved which many people today lack.
6000eliot
(5,643 posts)she should ask for the helper's criminal record before she accepts.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)...then I suppose they kind of cancel each other out?
Gosh.
So his domestic violence is OK because he rescued some kidnap victims and that rescue doesn't really matter in judging his character because he beat a woman up once.
Hang on.
If the rescue doesn't count, how can it redeem the domestic violence? He's still evil.
And if the domestic violence is okay then how can it affect our understanding of the rescue? He's still a hero.
That's really complicated.
Confused.
Please explain.
Actually, don't worry. I've had a think and come up with a nice, sensible solution to this paradoxical seeming situation. Instead of thinking of good and evil as AMOUNTS of something that are kind of positive and negative like acid and alkali that make something neutral when they're mixed, I've decided that good and evil don't cancel each other out at all or really even affect each other, not being substances or qualities but ACTIONS. That way a good thing is good and a bad thing is bad, and the person doing the good or bad thing can be both good and bad at the same time. I like this solution because it means that my feelings about the ordinary people I have lived with all my life make sense, as I have noticed that the same person can be very wonderful or a complete git depending not on what they ARE but what they DO. I myself have done both good and bad things.
Maybe not very complex after all, hm?
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)For helping to rescue the kidnap victims? Keep in mind that he acted to intervene in what he thought was a domestic violence situation.
What has he done presently that should cause concern?
Perhaps those ten year old demons need be put away, in exchange for current angels.
Response to cali (Original post)
devilgrrl This message was self-deleted by its author.
galileoreloaded
(2,571 posts)sibelian
(7,804 posts)It's actions that count, not "characters".
randome
(34,845 posts)sibelian
(7,804 posts)Or would you and I, we who agree?
randome
(34,845 posts)It's a relative attribute we assign based on our own experiences and circumstances.
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sibelian
(7,804 posts)The benefit of your entirely artificial "position" is that it appears to oppose whatever you thought mine was.
bluedigger
(17,087 posts)He has already been punished for his past transgressions.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)His past history is not relevant to the case. If a slick defense lawyer tried that tactic in court to try and get Castro off, he'd be laughed out of the courtroom. The man's past is not at issue here. You have made him yet another victim of Castro's ugly crime.
He paid for past crimes he committed with hard jail time. I am glad he didn't decide not to get involved for fear of dredging up his own past. I guess no good deed goes unpunished with some of you.
randome
(34,845 posts)Last edited Thu May 9, 2013, 11:58 AM - Edit history (2)
So it's difficult for some to turn that smile into celebratory glee, that's all.
We should think kindly of this man and move on, IMO.
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Generic Other
(28,979 posts)I am the last to defend the man's past, but I choose to think of it as not my business. Like in court -- not admissible in judging his current actions. Anything less is making him a victim rather than focusing on the real suspect. his past is not our business. If we were a jury we would be admonished for focusing on it.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)It's not celebratory glee to say he did a good thing.
He himself is humble enough to say he did what anyone would do. That still doesn't take away that he did a really good thing.
Freeing three women who were kidnapped and trapped for 10 years is a big effing deal (to quote Joe Biden).
randome
(34,845 posts)I think the vast majority of people, when confronted with someone running at them calling out for help would do something.
He did a great thing and he should be congratulated. I also think he should share in some of the reward money if it comes to it.
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Jennicut
(25,415 posts)It's a huge question of society. Some turn their lives around like this man did and do something wonderful with their lives after they get out of jail. He could have chosen not to act but he did. Some who get out of jail go back to their old ways and never change. But rehabilitation is a huge part of believing in social justice.
madokie
(51,076 posts)he rescued the girls rather than turn and walk away
he offered the reward money if any to go to the victims
To me this all adds up to one hell of a good man. Hero even.
malaise
(269,157 posts)That simple
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)
amuse bouche
(3,657 posts)
JH19059
(90 posts)He has paid his debt not only his victim but to society as well. Allow him the chance to be a productive citizen without the albatross. He did a great deed and should be commended,not torn down. His past acts mean nothing to me only his current one do.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,197 posts)Hopefully he's learned from his past mistakes and moved on.
The dude's still a hero.
No different from the sick gun nut fucks who are running Sandy Hook dad Neil Heslin through the mud over his past errors.
cbdo2007
(9,213 posts)mistakes you've made in your past throughout your whole life??
Whatever his issues are with his ex-wife are in the past. Now, the guy is a hero.
Response to cbdo2007 (Reply #33)
Iggo This message was self-deleted by its author.
RevStPatrick
(2,208 posts)...but that doesn't change that he did a good thing.
See how that works?
gollygee
(22,336 posts)We like to put people in categories like "hero" and "criminal" without realizing that human beings are complex. He did something bad and he also did something good.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)He also saved Western Democracy.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)not one time but multiple times, I find it very, very hard to see him as a "hero".
Granted, he did the right thing in this instance, but it would have been better for everyone if he had just done his good deed, stayed anonymous, and faded back into the background. Probably then none of his violent history would have been exposed.
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)I recall that the media has been chasing him. Oh, and who asked YOU if he was a hero or not?
pintobean
(18,101 posts)Most domestic violence laws in the US are designed to protect women. Rightfully so. Men can be arrested for as little as pushing away an attacking woman. You claimed in another thread that he beat the "living shit" out of her. That may be true, but we don't know how severe the assaults were. Not that it really matters, he's paid his debt. People change. Maybe he has.
The fact is, he helped save those women from the horror they were living. If you can't see that, I pity you.
Bullshit. Very few agree with you. I say, let the man have his 15 minutes of fame. He's earned it.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)And he didn't change after the second time he beat her. Because he beat her a third time.
Hopefully he changed after the third time he beat her.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)That's fine, go ahead. I hear McDonald's plans on contacting him. I hope that works out very well for him. Maybe he'll get more than 15 minutes. 
riqster
(13,986 posts)So, I guess we should crap all over him now, huh?
What a typical bit of s***- stirring this OP is.
galileoreloaded
(2,571 posts)thngs are fucked
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)He heard a girl screaming for help. He rushed over to the house, hopped on to the porch, kicked the door in, and saved not one but four lives that day, risking his own life. For all he knew, there was a man inside the house with a gun waiting for him. But it didn't stop him.
It's clear as a bright summer's day that he's a changed man since his motivation was that he believed it was a domestic violence case and he intervened and stopped certain death of at least three women. And no amount of attacking this man's character will white-wash the lack of action by the police who certainly have a few skeletons in their closets themselves, and for not taking 9-1-1 calls seriously from neighbors over the course of years. Ramsey didn't have to be a hero. He could've just done what the police did all those years: ignore the cries for help.
Michele Knight lost her son to social services at 21. She was an unruly and belligerent young woman who marched out of the house after a fight with her mother. Would you say she isn't a victim of a deadly predator because of her checkered background?
Come on, Cali. You're being way too judgmental here. Ramsey is catching flack for doing something most people would be too afraid to do, and it's no surprise that this heroic man's reputation is being drug through the mud. I wouldn't be surprised if this info dug up by the Smoking Gun was tipped off by the Cleveland police who now have egg in their faces and who, apparently, are erasing the 9-1-1 calls the neighbors had made over the years, but what were never followed up on.
dogknob
(2,431 posts)Ideals of a lib. Vindictiveness of a ReThug. The dark side is strong.
And now...
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)As the media has correctly noted, people often avoid intervening in what appear to be domestic disturbances. They decide its none of their business and they turn away.
Perhaps, having been convicted of domestic abuse almost 10 years ago, he more readily recognized that this woman was in serious danger.
And so instead of turning away, as perhaps many apparently had done over the years since these women disappeared, he was actually mobilized into action specifically because of his domestic abuse history.
RC
(25,592 posts)All these people around here that want to condemn him and down play his news worthy heroics because of what he did over 10 years, need a few more rethinks. That is Right-wing thinking anyway. DU already has enough of that.
riqster
(13,986 posts)A flawed person doing a good deed MUST be destroyed.
Sad.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)I didn't consider him a hero beforehand, nor do I now.
But he got to look dispassionately into the eyes of an abused person...he got to see clearly, without his personal rage blinding him, what he had done. And he made the choice to help, instead of walking away.
I expect that is the reason he said he doesn't want the reward, and that it belongs to the women. Because he honestly understands he doesn't deserve it.
But I expect he can sleep a little better, look himself in the eye in the mirror, and hold his head a little higher now.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)disagree with your assessment to which your and the others are entitled. Only the usual suspects are in the .5% Have a good one.
Heidi
(58,237 posts)I have more than one convicted felon among my dearest longtime friends, and have come to understand that life is not a binary proposition of good vs. bad. There's plenty of gray in between the two. A person can be many things to many people, and on the matter of Mr. Ramsey's heroism in this case, I will defer to the opinions of those he helped. On the matter of his domestic abuse convictions, I will defer to the court that convicted him. He can be an abuser to some and a hero to someone else.
djean111
(14,255 posts)Not sure what outcome is wanted here.
Maybe all those who have been convicted of domestic violence had better not respond to those who need help?
likesmountains 52
(4,098 posts)
BlueToTheBone
(3,747 posts)That's not what this is about. His past has nothing to do with the present.
Response to cali (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Mutiny In Heaven
(550 posts)Ok so for the record ppl do change and you shouldn’t hold the past against someone,” she wrote Wednesday. “The (main) thing is Charles Ramsey did a good deed and those girls are safe is that not the most important thing?”
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/cleveland-hero-charles-ramsey-criminal-report-article-1.1339043#ixzz2Sok7WCMt
Boomerproud
(7,964 posts)Rochelle was the victim and evidently has moved on. End of story.
madrchsod
(58,162 posts)we all have things in our past that is best not said.
Number23
(24,544 posts)on this web site. It is simply unreal.
Rex
(65,616 posts)He is a hero to the families involved in this and now have their loved ones back. Doesn't change the facts about anything else or how you and I feel about him personally. He is a hero to somebody now. You cannot change that based on his past.
You know heroes often have tragic stories? Sometimes they go from zero to hero back to zero.
Yet to some that he directly affected this time around for good, will always think of him as a hero despite what anyone else thinks and that won't change.
Linear existence is a strange bird.
ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)Iggo
(47,564 posts)See how that works?
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)If I am ever in serious trouble, I really don't care about the person saving me from a situation or their background. A person can be filth at one moment in time, and then a hero at another. His heroism was a momentary act, not a continuous act over a long period of time. In my mind he is not currently a hero, but at that moment he was. I don't see why that is not good enough. I am sure those women and their families will see him as a hero for the rest of their lives.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)If you have any skeletons or questions about your past, and you see someone who needs help, just keep on walking. Unless of course you don't mind your life being ruined because you helped someone in distress.
ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)what possible good can come out of rubbing his nose in his past? What do people get out of doing it?
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)I don't accuse the OP of this, but the criticism is misplaced.
"Give us dirty laundry!" was the refrain from an old Eagles pop song.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Redemption is a beautiful thing.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)You kow that they say- the third time is the charm.
TheKentuckian
(25,029 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)To me, it didn't matter since I would never leave him alone with my daughters. But it mattered to my ex-wife and it wasn't something I felt strongly enough about to argue IN FAVOR OF.
I don't think it's always a black and white issue -whether someone has served his time and all else is forgiven.
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TheKentuckian
(25,029 posts)then a person should be done with being punished within the scope of the law and be considered a citizen in good standing. I really don't care what crime you throw up, if one thinks penalties are too lax then I think that is the case to make but the current forever sanctioned is counter-productive and makes folks far more likely to return to crime because of limited options and being disconnected from society. It is wrongheaded makes actual rehabilitation much less plausible because in the end, the person is still thrown away. That is not justice.
randome
(34,845 posts)But our system of justice is not perfect by a long shot. And sexual predators have a high rate of recidivism so it's best to keep them at arm's distance. And yes, I mean forever.
If you ruin someone's life, it's not unfathomable for your own to be ruined in some measure. Society's actions post-sentence ARE a part of the process, like it or not.
In the judicial system, there are only 3 penalties: time, fines or death. Sometimes none of those can come close to making a criminal 'pay' for his or her crimes.
That doesn't mean we don't point out where inconsistencies lie, or we don't promote forgiveness where possible.
Ramsay is a perfect example. I don't hold anything against him for his past. But I won't idolize him, either.
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Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)
MineralMan
(146,328 posts)Once convicted, there can be no redemption. I see.
Feh!
GeorgeGist
(25,323 posts)bye.
Iggo
(47,564 posts)I've personally had to to fight against this foot-on-the-neck, life-sentences-for-everyone, once-a-criminal-always-a-criminal attitude out in the real world for the last 16-1/2 years.
It's fucking bullshit and I don't have to take it here at DU.
Have yourself a nice life, cali.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Some anonymous poster on a message board. Ramsey has done more for society in a few minutes than you will do in your lifetime.
Suck it up and don't hate.
MzShellG
(1,047 posts)Why focus on things he did years ago? What that man did this week was noble and heroic. Why are folks dragging his name through the mud. He is a reformed human being after serving his time.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)holds on to someones hands or wrists ...pushes someone ...Florida changed its domestic abuse laws in 1995. All someone has to do is scare the other person. Scare is to be defined by the other person ...it's just about as stupid as the stand your ground law.
likesmountains 52
(4,098 posts)He quite possibly saved 4 lives.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)are fair game, i see.
Here, you can have your lousy comment back:
"it says a lot about you that you think this is worthy of being posted and it sure as shit says more about the pathetic writer than it says about bono."
mustn't criticize a rich creep like bono who has no excuse for being a hypocritical tax cheat while pretending to be a philanthropist, who was rewarded all out of proportion to his talent, and who's used his success to suck up to the rich & powerful & aid them in their global power dreams.
meanwhile a prole gets to be a hero and good guy for once in his life and your first urge is to tear him down for something he did 10 years ago. yeah, it says a lot about *you*, both the defense of the rich and the tearing down of the poor.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)
cliffordu
(30,994 posts)For the rest of his life, ever negating what small good things he might achieve.
NEVER FORGET! NEVER FORGIVE!!
Ghost in the Machine
(14,912 posts)Don't worry about it though, it's happened to a lot of us before. Life goes on....
Ghost
JI7
(89,262 posts)unless he was running for political office or something like that.
people are giving him credit for what he did in this one instance. he did the right thing. he thought it was domestic violence case and there are many without a bad record who would walk by and do nothing with that assumption.
there were many threads about what a hero it was but people were happy over those girls being freed .
suffragette
(12,232 posts)it can change the future. And his recent action has certainly changed the present for the better.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)Yet YOU want to condemn him to eternal punishment by society.
I have always had my doubts about you, high post count or no.
His DV crimes are now a matter between him and his victim(s). It's really nobody else's business to be judging him. Double jeopardy and all that.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,239 posts)Even his ex-wife has been more gracious than you. It's attitudes like yours that keep offenders going back, because they can't catch a break out here, even after they've paid their debt to society. Don't kill 'em, but don't ever let 'em forget they're really criminals at the end of the day. How progressive of you. 
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)And people wonder why America has the highest incarceration rate in the world. The US has 5% of the world's population, but holds 25% of the world's prisoners. An amazing statistic and its because of dense people like the OP who can't forgive even after people have paid their debt.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,239 posts)if you're a minority, either victim or "hero", you'd better make sure you're squeaky clean, or they'll make your life hell. It would be different if Mr. Ramsey went shopping his story to the media, but the media came to his neighborhood, not the reverse. The o.p. shows that the old adage of "no good deed goes unpunished" is alive & well, and that's just sad. 
Deep13
(39,154 posts)
LostOne4Ever
(9,290 posts)His having done a good thing doesn't make up for his being an abuser himself.
I disagree.
Its the very definition of redemption:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/redemption
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/redeeming
He served his time and now hes trying to redeem himself, and this is a very good start.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)And Martin Luther King cheated on his. Winston Churchill was an anti-Semite. JFK was an early speed freak. Ulysses S. Grant, Sam Houston, and Alexander the Great were all raging alcoholics. Truman Capote, Edgar Allen Poe, and Frank Sinatra were all also raging alkies who had "legal trouble."
Even the greatest among us has flaws. Domestic violence is despicable and inexcusable under every circumstance. However, even the greatest among us is not without their flaws. What Ramsey did was sixteen years ago and he did his time: it is not our place to punish him in perpetuity for it. If anything, it should further reinforce our liberal beliefs that very few people or things are black and white, but that we live in a world of gray.
I am most definitely an atheist. However, I have always loved the a biblical quote: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." You or I may have never done anything as loathsome as domestic violence, but I can promise you that no one reading this is a saint.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)His wife has forgiven him, he did his time, and went on to help rescue 4 people.
Sounds like a redemption to me.
The poor man can't sleep at night because he feels guilty.
He doesn't feel like a hero.
He wishes he would have known a year ago, when he moved in.
He says he would be doing "triple life".
He is disgusted that he ate BBQ with this guy.
Maybe if he hadn't committed those crimes in the past, he would not have ran to assist.
Alot of people wouldn't.
Like with Kitty Genovese. 38 people watched her die and did nothing.
I praise people who rescue women from captivity. He is a hero.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)A subsequent report in The New York Times laid out the story of 38 witnesses, many portrayed as watching the homicide from front row seats in their high-rise apartments as Genovese cried in vain for her life.
"For more than half an hour thirty-eight respectable, law-abiding citizens in Queens watched a killer stalk and stab a woman in three separate attacks in Kew Gardens," The Times article began. ".... Not one person telephoned the police during the assault; one witness called after the woman was dead."
As it turned out, there were two attacks, not three. The prosecutor in the case later said only a half-dozen witnesses were ever found. Others have suggested that calls to the police were made (and ignored), and that the fatal second assault occurred in a location visible to almost no one.
Joseph DeMay, a New York historian and attorney, used the killer's own description of the events to question the accepted version in a recent Internet recounting of the case.
In the American Psychologist article, psychology professors Rachel Manning of the University of the West of England and Mark Levine and Alan Collins of Lancaster University suggest the oft-repeated narrative of the Genovese murder is "not supported by the available evidence."
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/tech/science/discoveries/2007-10-01-genovese-syndrome-questioned_N.htm
bravenak
(34,648 posts)This man took action. Others may watch you murdered in the street without intervening.
Some people will take a baseball bat and stop the attacker. Not many.
I praise those who have the courage to help women in trouble.
The fact that he was previously an abuser of women shows that some people do change.
Helps restore my faith in humanity.
The man did a good thing. That counts.
lynne
(3,118 posts)- no matter what bad things he may have done - they don't negate nor diminish the good thing that he did. His deeds are not dependent on each other. They each stand alone.
We should be willing to commend him for his good deed just as we're willing to condemn him for his bad ones.
Dorian Gray
(13,499 posts)but many of them have dark pasts. Alcoholism. Moments where they behaved very unheroically.
What makes someone a hero is defeating the negative nature and doing something good.
I don't give a shit whether people refer to Charles Ramsey as a hero, but I truly admire him for being there and doing good on that day. And I'm sure the four females her helped rescue from the Castro house view him as a hero.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Last edited Fri May 10, 2013, 09:52 AM - Edit history (1)
Seriously, if I hear some poor woman screaming her life in danger, I will have to pass on helping.
It's obvious now, that doing the "right" thing simply earns you the dubious honor of having all dirty laundry in your life aired for the world to see.
I may not have a prison record of anything serious.
But really what does that matter?
I could simply have stuff made up about me ..."Swiftboated" by someone or some group wanting to promote their agenda
So really when it boils down to it helping someone in a life threatening, or anyone for that matter, just puts yourself in jeopardy.
So next time I see so female being chased by a knife wielding manic or something....I will make sure to just record the whole thing, more money to be made by selling the video, than trying rescue her and having your life wrecked subsequently.
You opened my eyes!
Thanks Cali
OwnedByCats
(805 posts)No good deed ever goes unpunished.
It bothers me that his record, which should be private in this situation, was dug up in the first place. Is the guy wanted on an outstanding warrant? Nope. He last served time 10 years ago and it looks like, he hasn't been in trouble since. Why was this made public anyway? What does it have to do with the kidnapping case? Unless this guy was accused by one of the women as being an accomplice, why was his record being brought up?
It's ridiculous and I also said in another thread that this kind of thing discourages people wanting to get involved. Not just those who have records but private people in general. I wouldn't want all the attention (would try to be anonymous if I could get away with it).
It's a shame really
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)But now...I have zero interest in getting involved in a life or death situation.
OwnedByCats
(805 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)...then maybe you're not the hero you think you are.
[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)especially in stuff like...oh say...back in the combat theaters, that I've served in, is suddenly a bad thing...
I don't think I have ever said anything about being a hero....
What i did say was that, it's obvious that from the OP no good deed goes unpunished nowadays....
However, you might not want to throw around the term "Hero".
You never know what the person you are talking to, may or may not have done
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)The rest of us will try and make a better world without you.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)amuse bouche
(3,657 posts)The TV station, that needlessly dragged his name through the mud has issued an apology
He has already paid for those crimes. So why is he being tried again?
This is just another reason why people don't help those in distress
riqster
(13,986 posts)...convicted of sedition and executed. I bet if Christians knew about that, they'd withdraw their allegiance, huh?
Derp
Pathwalker
(6,598 posts)For condemning someone they'll never meet?
As a somewhat famous person once said: Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Thank you, you flawed human, for helping to rescue those three women.
Yavin4
(35,445 posts)2. He served his time and paid for his acts.
3. He's stated that being imprisoned has made him a better man.
Finally, he did his duty as a citizen. Any humane person would have done the same thing or at least called the cops.
Let's just thank him and be on our way. Nothing more. Nothing less.