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xchrom

(108,903 posts)
Wed May 22, 2013, 09:33 AM May 2013

Colorado man opens fire on officer with AR-15 at traffic stop for no headlights

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/22/colorado-man-opens-fire-on-officer-with-ar-15-at-traffic-stop-for-no-headlights/

A Colorado man is in critical condition on Wednesday after he used an AR-15 assault rifle to fire at an officer and then was shot himself.

A Longmont Police Department press release obtained by the Coloradoan said that the 36-year-old police officer had stopped the suspect at about 2:15 a.m. on Tuesday for driving without headlights.

The suspect got out of his vehicle and “advanced on the officer and began firing multiple rounds at the officer with an AR-15-style rifle,” the statement said.

The officer returned fire, hitting the man three or more times. The department said that the officer had not been injured in the shoot out.
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Colorado man opens fire on officer with AR-15 at traffic stop for no headlights (Original Post) xchrom May 2013 OP
Yep, everybody should be armed to the teeth because you might sinkingfeeling May 2013 #1
That's right! You never know when the Gubberment will send the Police.... Walk away May 2013 #4
Now, give the guy a break! KansDem May 2013 #64
Yes, if only the two people at the scene had more, more, more guns on hand valerief May 2013 #81
Kinda funny, ain' it??? Plucketeer May 2013 #90
Good point! nt tblue May 2013 #97
Very good point! nt caledesi May 2013 #117
i hope his gun was registered tiny elvis May 2013 #213
They're always "law-abiding gun-owners"---until they're not. WinkyDink May 2013 #2
Everybody's law abiding until they're not, premium May 2013 #11
When you cram a gun down your pants, or put one in your car -- you are no longer "responsible" IMO. Hoyt May 2013 #80
Same ole Hoyt. premium May 2013 #86
With regards to many things adieu May 2013 #88
And guess what? premium May 2013 #94
Neener Neener Neener otohara May 2013 #152
21 for a handgun premium May 2013 #155
Does That Include Assault Rifles? otohara May 2013 #167
Assault rifles are very tightly regulated, premium May 2013 #168
Hey, don't you care about his feelings? Pelican May 2013 #217
Are you a republican? Kingofalldems May 2013 #225
You're responsible until you act irresponsibly. Megalo_Man May 2013 #100
And carrying a gun, prepared to shoot someone is irresponsible. No way around that. Hoyt May 2013 #105
Got four of your talking points in on that one. rl6214 May 2013 #108
Yeah, he's very adept at that, huh? premium May 2013 #112
LOL! billh58 May 2013 #125
Back atcha buddy, premium May 2013 #127
We're all very impressed with your wit and wisdom... truebluegreen May 2013 #156
As am I. nt. premium May 2013 #160
Thought it was obvious to just about everybody, truebluegreen May 2013 #161
Uh huh. nt. premium May 2013 #165
Ah! There you go! truebluegreen May 2013 #198
Thank you premium May 2013 #199
Nice try. truebluegreen May 2013 #201
Probably, premium May 2013 #202
Gosh, you are just sooooo witty! truebluegreen May 2013 #204
This message was self-deleted by its author truebluegreen May 2013 #200
Why are you attacking a loyal DU member? Kingofalldems May 2013 #154
What business is it of yours? nt. premium May 2013 #157
I just made it my business. Kingofalldems May 2013 #158
Well, I don't recognize it as your business. premium May 2013 #162
Sure. Kingofalldems May 2013 #164
Snappy comeback. nt. premium May 2013 #166
If I were you, I wouldn't run to the admins either. Robb May 2013 #189
The admins probably have you on their radar anyway. JimDandy May 2013 #194
when a relative new-comer starts attacking a long-time member, some of us tend to get a little niyad May 2013 #193
It would be irresponsible to *not* do most of those things. Megalo_Man May 2013 #115
Another irrational gunner. How much time to you spend preparing for these highly unlikely events. Hoyt May 2013 #144
I have actually been in.one.of those.highly unlikely.events. Megalo_Man May 2013 #174
Do your guns add to your Megalo-self-image? Hoyt May 2013 #176
Go Hoyt! Hammer em... xtraxritical May 2013 #121
Yeah, he's about as credible as, premium May 2013 #129
Nope - never killed anyone, never practiced to kill anyone, don't pick up guns and say, "wow, I bet Hoyt May 2013 #143
This message was self-deleted by its author premium May 2013 #145
+1000 truebluegreen May 2013 #159
You've claimed elsewhere that you know how to fieldstrip a handgun at age 8 friendly_iconoclast May 2013 #175
Well past 8 now, and have outgrown the need for lethal weapons and gun toys. Hoyt May 2013 #180
You contradict yourself, Hoyt-you learned how to shoot that Army-issued gun... friendly_iconoclast May 2013 #181
How's that? Hoyt May 2013 #184
You don't *get* to have your pronouncements taken on faith, Hoyt friendly_iconoclast May 2013 #186
You are right, if it's not from the NRA or gun cultists, it cannot be right. Hoyt May 2013 #187
It's only right if it's shown to be right-and you don't do that friendly_iconoclast May 2013 #208
At least my opinion is not based upon an unhealthy attraction to guns. Hoyt May 2013 #209
Just to check... Pelican May 2013 #228
Not Hoyt, premium May 2013 #229
I doubt he crammed his gun down his pants rl6214 May 2013 #106
Sorry, I am not familiar with where/how you guys tuck your guns when going out into public. Hoyt May 2013 #150
Guns In Cars = Road Rage otohara May 2013 #149
Interesting you mention that. NRA President Keene's son - raised in gun culture - was convicted Hoyt May 2013 #151
I Took My Obama Sticker Off otohara May 2013 #163
Thank you for actually supporting my point. And we arrest drunk drivers, accident or no. WinkyDink May 2013 #206
That's the exact problem . .. HughBeaumont May 2013 #13
And a bank robber anda rapist and a murderer are all law abiding until their not! rl6214 May 2013 #31
Which kills the argument that "Any gun should be sold to responsible gun owners." WinkyDink May 2013 #207
why do people think they mikeysnot May 2013 #3
It couldn't ave been, the officer survived and the perp died. rl6214 May 2013 #33
I am not anti-gun... caledesi May 2013 #135
Where were the Pit bulls?? nt Eleanors38 May 2013 #5
Oh you just had to got there! Haha. Agschmid May 2013 #8
! xchrom May 2013 #9
At the Olive Garden ... getting circumcised. 11 Bravo May 2013 #76
While breastfeeding immunized children! n /t Horse with no Name May 2013 #92
Dining on spotted owl with Wolf sauce riqster May 2013 #136
Did anyone hold the door for them? KansDem May 2013 #179
Yes, a swarthy individual riqster May 2013 #185
we have strayed from "well-regulated militias" Enrique May 2013 #6
Shhh...they don't like for that to be pointed out AndyA May 2013 #72
Pssst, you don't know what we'll regulated militia really means. rl6214 May 2013 #109
That's BS and you know it AndyA May 2013 #124
Excuse me!!!!! LongTomH May 2013 #153
That part WAS also to make sure those citizens enrolled in the militias, jmg257 May 2013 #171
pssst--you might want to learn the proper use of contractions, apostrophes, and hyphens. niyad May 2013 #191
"..our Constitution guarantees our individual right to bear arms" - Barack Obama May 2013 hack89 May 2013 #133
Let's post the full quote. Hoyt May 2013 #172
Which has nothing to do with the 2A applying solely to militias - correct? nt hack89 May 2013 #173
What "militias" , and when was set one raised ? pkdu May 2013 #227
let's see--2;15 am, no headlights, idiot fires multiple rounds, did not hit the officer. so, an niyad May 2013 #7
Yup! BrotherIvan May 2013 #15
Or the less obvious. zeemike May 2013 #83
AR-15's are not automatic weapons, premium May 2013 #87
Semi auto rl6214 May 2013 #110
More likely he was drunk at 2 a.m. JimDandy May 2013 #128
Well I guess he showed Johnny Law who was boss. Robb May 2013 #10
Darwin is still deciding malaise May 2013 #21
This is an example of why we're seeing the undesirable militarization of the police function. byeya May 2013 #22
Every deer rifle is 'armor piercing'. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #55
Couldn't have been an AR15, you anti gun zealots all say the AR15 kill is everyone rl6214 May 2013 #38
You have to hit something first. n/t mattclearing May 2013 #50
But,but,but if you're spray firing from the hip with a hi capacity assault clip rl6214 May 2013 #98
Another victim of false advertising. mattclearing May 2013 #113
Hampered at 2 a.m. by the dark and probable JimDandy May 2013 #146
Yeah, NRA training at work Progressive dog May 2013 #53
I always suspected that AtheistCrusader May 2013 #57
Wasn't it because the TEC-9 ejected the brass straight up and back? Recursion May 2013 #70
I've never fired one, but from my impression of the quality of the design AtheistCrusader May 2013 #126
Maybe it's to increase collateral damage. Progressive dog May 2013 #73
I don't think either of them were the originators of that practice. rl6214 May 2013 #111
sentence structure, or reasoning for that matter, aren't really your strong suits.. frylock May 2013 #77
Post removed Post removed May 2013 #99
Dark outside and probably drunk at 2 a.m. JimDandy May 2013 #139
The interesting thing here seems to me to be MineralMan May 2013 #12
perhaps not a threat to law enforcement, but maybe one to innocent bystanders. niyad May 2013 #14
Yes, of course. I'm really talking, though, about MineralMan May 2013 #16
Not a real threat? BrotherIvan May 2013 #17
What "militia types" has walked into schools or movie theaters or mall and premium May 2013 #18
I characterize those who stockpile weapons BrotherIvan May 2013 #25
Adam Lanza, James Holmes and Seung-Hui Cho were not "militia-types." hack89 May 2013 #28
And thinking one has to stockpile weapons in the bunker BrotherIvan May 2013 #35
We were talking about people that carry out mass slaughter hack89 May 2013 #48
true militia member ??????? dothemath May 2013 #114
What is a 'true militia member'? Damn good question hack89 May 2013 #130
Little correction sarisataka May 2013 #141
Wanted to add BrotherIvan May 2013 #26
Then again, premium May 2013 #32
"Stockpiling weapons is not necessarily a sign of mental illness..." BrotherIvan May 2013 #37
Yeah, I did, premium May 2013 #43
Do you think it is? Recursion May 2013 #68
Stockpiling weapons =/= collecting BrotherIvan May 2013 #75
The difference between a "collection" and a "stockpile" or "hoard" is rhetorical. Recursion May 2013 #78
Ah, we are blessed by the presence of another telepsychologist friendly_iconoclast May 2013 #177
Didn't technically commit it. Crunchy Frog May 2013 #120
You may be right. premium May 2013 #123
Nah, they use bombs like McVeigh Progressive dog May 2013 #69
That's not what the poster I replied to said, but then you know that, huh. nt. premium May 2013 #79
The poster said militia types Progressive dog May 2013 #103
Ok, fair enough. premium May 2013 #104
I'm not talking about random shooters in mass shootings. MineralMan May 2013 #19
Caterwauling from Gun Enthusiasts re "AR-15-style rifle" in 3..2..1... Paladin May 2013 #20
Why? That's a good description Recursion May 2013 #39
Surely you jest. Paladin May 2013 #62
Nope. People complain about misuse of the phrases "assault rifle" and "assault weapon" mostly Recursion May 2013 #65
Who cares? This perp obviously acquired his AR-15 to use as an assault weapon. Most do I think. Hoyt May 2013 #84
And that usage is acceptable. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #119
The primary objection is usually made when AtheistCrusader May 2013 #118
Actually there's nothing wrong with that description. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #60
Surely you jest. (nt) Paladin May 2013 #66
You have two "gun" people saying the description is accurate and none complaining like you predicted Recursion May 2013 #67
Oh, it tells me plenty. (nt) Paladin May 2013 #101
Hopefully it told you AtheistCrusader May 2013 #122
Not even close. But thanks for playing. (nt) Paladin May 2013 #138
Hope springs eternal. Maybe someday you will. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #140
How many more incidents must we go through... Pragdem May 2013 #23
Drunk and stupid's no way to go thru life son One_Life_To_Give May 2013 #24
Ok, that made me laugh BrotherIvan May 2013 #30
Might have been an attempt at AtheistCrusader May 2013 #61
Doubtful. Drunk, dark and inexperienced is more likely JimDandy May 2013 #169
Well, it's not inconsistent with a suicide by cop. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #170
A police car spotlight in the dark appears to have blinded the gunman JimDandy May 2013 #197
I thought this wouldn't happen if you were carrying a gun liberal N proud May 2013 #27
There is no way...don't you know nobody survives an assault by someone rl6214 May 2013 #29
Is basic writing no longer taught in schools? Nimajneb Nilknarf May 2013 #34
What was wrong with the writing in the article? Recursion May 2013 #40
The subject line has a misplaced modifier Nimajneb Nilknarf May 2013 #41
Threw the cow over the fence some hay. Robb May 2013 #44
The piano was sold to the woman with spindly legs Nimajneb Nilknarf May 2013 #47
This is precisely the sort of errant pedantry up with which I will not put! 11 Bravo May 2013 #82
Oh, right. Duh. To think I used to copy-edit Recursion May 2013 #46
Headlines often are written by others; an editor maybe. Buzz Clik May 2013 #51
I see what you mean... Bay Boy May 2013 #54
The officer brandishing a repeating breech-loading rifle musket would seem an over-reaction Nimajneb Nilknarf May 2013 #58
Yep. Reading, too. Buzz Clik May 2013 #42
It's unfortunate that someone with weak writing skills can get a job writing newspaper articles Nimajneb Nilknarf May 2013 #45
For Rimjob's sake, I hope he already donated to the freeper 2nd quarter fund drive. denverbill May 2013 #36
I pray that the Holy AR15 was not harmed jpak May 2013 #49
We need to find a way to allow guns to have guns to protect themselves. Buzz Clik May 2013 #52
Sounds like a "suicide by cop" case. FarCenter May 2013 #56
I have hundreds of gun threads trashed, but this one points out one of the ignored Egalitarian Thug May 2013 #59
Okay so let's think about this... Javaman May 2013 #63
This is why we need MOAR GUNZ!!!!!! kestrel91316 May 2013 #71
Driving without headlights? EC May 2013 #74
Perfect Timing - Lawsuit by 50 Colo Sheriffs otohara May 2013 #85
Clearly, he thought the officer was out of line by stopping him Horse with no Name May 2013 #89
Anyone Esle Ever Notice That Caeser67 May 2013 #91
Something is wrong with this picture. sulphurdunn May 2013 #93
I'd assume alcohol was involved MiniMe May 2013 #116
That would explain it. sulphurdunn May 2013 #132
What's wrong with it? If you're an idiot and believe reality is like a video game Egalitarian Thug May 2013 #142
Possibly, sulphurdunn May 2013 #147
Rifles aren't very useful when you're close to someone Recursion May 2013 #148
No offense, sulphurdunn May 2013 #190
well, no Recursion May 2013 #210
I fought in Vietnam sulphurdunn May 2013 #211
Well, I fought in Iraq and I say the opposite Recursion May 2013 #214
I think the shorter sulphurdunn May 2013 #215
Semper fi too Recursion May 2013 #216
It must be something sulphurdunn May 2013 #218
Nam vet here also, premium May 2013 #219
Yea, we called 'em sulphurdunn May 2013 #221
M-79. premium May 2013 #222
Right. M-79 not 72 sulphurdunn May 2013 #223
You're correct. premium May 2013 #224
The Muj had 9's, and knew how to use them Recursion May 2013 #220
Local story for me. The AR-15 guy has several alcohol offenses on his record. politicat May 2013 #183
thank you for the link. niyad May 2013 #195
No more guns for him. BVictor1 May 2013 #95
Very pleased the officer was not physically injured The Second Stone May 2013 #96
Yay, Freedom! Arugula Latte May 2013 #102
2nd Time This Month DallasNE May 2013 #107
law abiding responsible gun owner sigmasix May 2013 #131
What law that the NRA opposes would have prevented this? (nt) Recursion May 2013 #134
TLDR. Paragraph breaks are your friend. nt rrneck May 2013 #137
If only that policeman had been armed... Arkana May 2013 #178
Ummm... the guy the cop shot got hurt (nt) Recursion May 2013 #182
'no one tells a true hero of the 2nd amendment that they need headlights to drive. no one!' KG May 2013 #188
I can't believe the guy missed with an AR-15. It's one of the easiest firearms to shoot. Gravitycollapse May 2013 #192
See post 197. JimDandy May 2013 #203
maybe he didn't really shoot? maybe the story is not as published? HiPointDem May 2013 #212
(2:15 am) "here, hold my beer. What did you say?" librechik May 2013 #196
Lucky officer....... Historic NY May 2013 #205
The revolution against oppressive headlight requirements has begun! Deep13 May 2013 #226

Walk away

(9,494 posts)
4. That's right! You never know when the Gubberment will send the Police....
Wed May 22, 2013, 09:46 AM
May 2013

to check your headlights! I hear the black helicopters were out checking wind shield wipers last week!

valerief

(53,235 posts)
81. Yes, if only the two people at the scene had more, more, more guns on hand
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:33 AM
May 2013

this never would have happened.

Guns are magic like that.

 

Plucketeer

(12,882 posts)
90. Kinda funny, ain' it???
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:44 AM
May 2013

This rube pulls out his gun - KNOWING the person (a cop) he's drawing on is likely to be packin' as well. So much for that theory that folks would be less likely to shoot if they thought they'd receive fire in return!

 

premium

(3,731 posts)
11. Everybody's law abiding until they're not,
Wed May 22, 2013, 09:57 AM
May 2013

whether it be drunk driving, shop lifting, robbery, etc.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
80. When you cram a gun down your pants, or put one in your car -- you are no longer "responsible" IMO.
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:32 AM
May 2013

Yeah you might be within the law (likely enacted with help/pressure from NRA types), but it is still irresponsible and a problem for the rest of us.

Leave your guns at home and play with them there, accumulate responsibly, and don't support those who promote more guns in more places.
 

premium

(3,731 posts)
86. Same ole Hoyt.
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:38 AM
May 2013

So predictable, you're like a clock, right on time.

You don't get to determine what's right for me and my family anymore than I get to determine what's right for you and your family.

 

adieu

(1,009 posts)
88. With regards to many things
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:43 AM
May 2013

we, the citizens do get to determine what's right for you and your family. We have laws on wearing seat belts, driving at a certain speed limit; laws on how heavy a load a person is allowed to carry. These laws are broken all the time, mind you, but they're there. That should be no different for laws on guns being carried about.

 

premium

(3,731 posts)
94. And guess what?
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:47 AM
May 2013

Carrying guns in my state is perfectly legal, Hoyt lives in GA, he has no say in NV., so he has no say in what's good for my family.

 

otohara

(24,135 posts)
167. Does That Include Assault Rifles?
Wed May 22, 2013, 02:19 PM
May 2013

Gal in my state shot her face off last week with her new rifle - 22 year old bought into to the garbage about Obama taking guns away so she had to go buy one by golly.

 

premium

(3,731 posts)
168. Assault rifles are very tightly regulated,
Wed May 22, 2013, 02:23 PM
May 2013

what you probably mean is a semi auto AR-15, and yes, the age limit is the same, but why anyone would carry one in public, except for hunting, is beyond me.

 

Pelican

(1,156 posts)
217. Hey, don't you care about his feelings?
Thu May 23, 2013, 08:49 AM
May 2013

Doesn't it bother you that he is scared out of his mind? You insensitive meanie...

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
105. And carrying a gun, prepared to shoot someone is irresponsible. No way around that.
Wed May 22, 2013, 12:04 PM
May 2013

Practicing on targets that resemble humans; posing in front of mirrors while practicing quick draw; choosing the best loads for killing someone; supporting right wing, bigoted organizations like the NRA (as a dues paying member, or free-rider); etc.; are irresponsible in my opinion.

billh58

(6,635 posts)
125. LOL!
Wed May 22, 2013, 12:36 PM
May 2013

You gunners are right on script this morning. Your "cold dead hands" shtick is right out of the NRA playbook...

 

truebluegreen

(9,033 posts)
204. Gosh, you are just sooooo witty!
Wed May 22, 2013, 08:55 PM
May 2013

Too bad no one can see it except you.

BTW, I am willing to bet money that you are unable to let someone else have the last word in an exchange.







three....two....one....we haz a winner!

Response to truebluegreen (Reply #198)

 

premium

(3,731 posts)
162. Well, I don't recognize it as your business.
Wed May 22, 2013, 02:15 PM
May 2013

I don't go running to the admins for such a trivial matter.

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
194. The admins probably have you on their radar anyway.
Wed May 22, 2013, 05:17 PM
May 2013

2 months here, and more than a thousand posts, most in the Gungeon is sort of a flag. We've had a lot of conservatives coming on this site in the last 7 months who hide out and post mostly in the gungeon. And knowing and commenting on a long-time DUers (Hoyt's) posting habits might be indicative of someone who's been banned and is back under another name.

On a public forum, every comment is potentially everyone's business, so expect anyone and everyone to jump in.

niyad

(113,587 posts)
193. when a relative new-comer starts attacking a long-time member, some of us tend to get a little
Wed May 22, 2013, 05:15 PM
May 2013

curious. as this is a public board, everything that goes on here IS our business.

 

Megalo_Man

(88 posts)
115. It would be irresponsible to *not* do most of those things.
Wed May 22, 2013, 12:24 PM
May 2013

And being prepared to defend yourself is not irresponsible. I'm certainly not going to shoot someone with an underpowered load. Its also kind of a good idea to be shooting at targets that resemble people because.. last I checked, people are usually the things that intend to cause harm to other people. But if you can find me a pit bull target.. let me know.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
144. Another irrational gunner. How much time to you spend preparing for these highly unlikely events.
Wed May 22, 2013, 01:06 PM
May 2013

Yea, I know you wear a seat belt. Of course, the chances of an accident are much greater than being a situation where a gun is needed.

Do you carry a defibrillator? It is much more likely you will need one of those.

Are ads like this effective on you and your gun buddies?


 

Megalo_Man

(88 posts)
174. I have actually been in.one.of those.highly unlikely.events.
Wed May 22, 2013, 03:30 PM
May 2013

Training.and preparing for it made the difference between me losing my life.

I also happen to live in Philly where these highly unlikely events you never hear about hear about are a lot more likely. If you want to live in a fantasy world by all means do so. I will live in reality.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
176. Do your guns add to your Megalo-self-image?
Wed May 22, 2013, 03:50 PM
May 2013

I've been in situations too, even had guns pulled on me a few times, but luckily handled the situation without anyone getting shot, or another gun escalating the situation.

96% of the population can walk out of their house without carrying a gun to fight off the evil demons that some think exist.

If you want to live in fear -- that only a gun will save you -- go ahead.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
143. Nope - never killed anyone, never practiced to kill anyone, don't pick up guns and say, "wow, I bet
Wed May 22, 2013, 01:01 PM
May 2013

this gun would stop an unarmed teenager trying to steal my cd player," or anything like that. Don't promote guns, don't get giddy when someone posts the latest and greatest lethal weapons and accessories, don't promote NRA type right wing BS, etc.

You love/worship guns, so nothing you say with respect to guns is objective.

You can't envision life without them and will spin things as much as needed to rationalize owning and using them personally, while promoting more and more guns in more and more places. So you -- and your similarly addicted gun buddies -- are hardly credible.

Response to Hoyt (Reply #143)

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
175. You've claimed elsewhere that you know how to fieldstrip a handgun at age 8
Wed May 22, 2013, 03:45 PM
May 2013
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022208271#post39

I was field-stripping a 1911 by age 8, and grew up with a bunch of gun nuts.


Are you claiming you never learned to shoot that 1911? They're not really useful for
hunting, you know.

Hoyt, Hoyt, Hoyt...listening to you on the subject of guns is like listening to Pat Robertson on
the cause of, well, anything.
 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
181. You contradict yourself, Hoyt-you learned how to shoot that Army-issued gun...
Wed May 22, 2013, 03:56 PM
May 2013

...and waffle about the subject when confronted with your own words.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
184. How's that?
Wed May 22, 2013, 04:07 PM
May 2013

I am familiar with guns since an early age. Fortunately, able to have long outgrown the appeal/worship common among the gun cultists here.
 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
186. You don't *get* to have your pronouncements taken on faith, Hoyt
Wed May 22, 2013, 04:21 PM
May 2013

No one here does. So when you say one thing at one time and say something that contradicts
your first statement later, or make some wild claim that you know all you need to know
about a large group because you've met a few members of same (all without evidence, mind you)...
well, frankly, you deserve to be met with skepticism.

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
208. It's only right if it's shown to be right-and you don't do that
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:25 PM
May 2013

I make those cracks about 'the Pat Robertson of gun control advocacy' for a reason-
you and Preacher Pat share the same standards of accuracy...

 

Pelican

(1,156 posts)
228. Just to check...
Fri May 24, 2013, 10:16 PM
May 2013

You can think of no situation where shooting someone may be either a) responsible or b) a moral imperative?

 

premium

(3,731 posts)
229. Not Hoyt,
Fri May 24, 2013, 10:25 PM
May 2013

anyone who owns a gun is either a yahoo who practices shooting unarmed teenagers, who shoves a gun down their pants and goes into Chuckie Cheese, stand in front of a mirror and practices their quick draw, etc, etc.
He's pure comedy gold.

 

rl6214

(8,142 posts)
106. I doubt he crammed his gun down his pants
Wed May 22, 2013, 12:08 PM
May 2013

Unless it was an ARpistol, but I'm sure you really don't care as long as you get your talking points in.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
150. Sorry, I am not familiar with where/how you guys tuck your guns when going out into public.
Wed May 22, 2013, 01:47 PM
May 2013

And please don't show me.
 

otohara

(24,135 posts)
149. Guns In Cars = Road Rage
Wed May 22, 2013, 01:38 PM
May 2013

studies, well, when gun studies were allowed stated carrying gun in your car will make you more aggressive towards others -

Scares the shit out of me knowing so many macho types are driving around with their weapons.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
151. Interesting you mention that. NRA President Keene's son - raised in gun culture - was convicted
Wed May 22, 2013, 01:53 PM
May 2013

for a road rage shooting. I think he was sentenced to 10 years.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022056316



The bastions of responsible, law-abiding gun ownership sure seem to have a sordid history.

 

otohara

(24,135 posts)
163. I Took My Obama Sticker Off
Wed May 22, 2013, 02:15 PM
May 2013

now that 1/2 the state of Colorado owns guns.

i was seriously terrified the other night walking to see my kid do his magic at a fashion show.
I was walking two blocks to get to the venue - there are a bunch of night clubs on this street and lots of folks mulling
around - some kinda drunk. There was a shooting at one of the clubs 2010 - Some kid started walking with me and questioning me - being kind of a jerk. I would have ran to my car if it weren't for this darn brace -

I will never go down there again at night.

HughBeaumont

(24,461 posts)
13. That's the exact problem . ..
Wed May 22, 2013, 09:59 AM
May 2013

. . . I can't tell the "responsible gun owners" from the James Holmeses until the firing begins.

caledesi

(11,903 posts)
135. I am not anti-gun...
Wed May 22, 2013, 12:45 PM
May 2013

If these idiots want to use military weapons and not meant to kill ppl...

If this all true, my answer is to rent from a gallery, you can fire with anything. If it is true , then shoot til your hearts content ppl DON'T DIE! ... can have any gun you want AK-xxx and oodles of magazines.



AndyA

(16,993 posts)
72. Shhh...they don't like for that to be pointed out
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:19 AM
May 2013

They'll come up with all kinds of stories to justify exactly "what" a "militia" is in "today's terms."

Also, please ignore the fact that weapon technology has advanced considerably over the centuries, and the 2A hasn't been touched to reflect this. They'll want you to believe that the founders intended for citizens to have as much fire power as the highly-trained military our government spends billions on every year, with no limits, no checks, no restrictions, and that the 2A rights supersede all of the other rights the founders documented.

So, if the founders were alive and walking around today, they'd be OK with things the way they are--all the mass shootings, numerous accidents, and all the other catastrophes that go with gun ownership would be hunky-dory with them. Got it?

 

rl6214

(8,142 posts)
109. Pssst, you don't know what we'll regulated militia really means.
Wed May 22, 2013, 12:14 PM
May 2013

And part of the second amendment WAS to ensure that citizens DID have the same firepower as the govt as arms.

AndyA

(16,993 posts)
124. That's BS and you know it
Wed May 22, 2013, 12:36 PM
May 2013

The NRA is a never ending source for talking points, though.

Enjoy things as they are while they last. Things are going to change. It's already started. With every mass shooting, more and more people will demand change.

Nice to know you place the right to bear arms above all others, including life. Strange that you haven't realized that without life, you don't need any rights.

LongTomH

(8,636 posts)
153. Excuse me!!!!!
Wed May 22, 2013, 02:05 PM
May 2013

".....part of the second amendment WAS to ensure that citizens DID have the same firepower as the govt as arms."

Are you trying to say that citizens should own tanks, armored personnel carriers, killer drones (with missiles!), cluster bombs, etc?

I can just see the bumper stickers now: "When killer drones are outlawed, only outlaws will have killer drones!

jmg257

(11,996 posts)
171. That part WAS also to make sure those citizens enrolled in the militias,
Wed May 22, 2013, 02:47 PM
May 2013

& were disciplined & organized so they could be fairly effective as a fighting force; training to be done by the states according to federal guidelines, often enough to entitle them to the character of "a well regulated militia".


Quite an obsolete intent - for a while now, what with the National Guard, our huge Standing Armies, and no duty to enroll &/or muster.


niyad

(113,587 posts)
191. pssst--you might want to learn the proper use of contractions, apostrophes, and hyphens.
Wed May 22, 2013, 05:06 PM
May 2013

it makes for easier understanding. for example, what in the hell is a "we'll regulated" militia? a we all militia? a we will militia? what does that mean?

hack89

(39,171 posts)
133. "..our Constitution guarantees our individual right to bear arms" - Barack Obama May 2013
Wed May 22, 2013, 12:44 PM
May 2013

The President has accepted reality - it is time to move on.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
172. Let's post the full quote.
Wed May 22, 2013, 03:07 PM
May 2013

President Obama while in Mexico: "Most of the guns used to commit violence here in Mexico come from the United States. I think many of you know that in America, our Constitution guarantees our individual right to bear arms. And as president, I swore an oath to uphold that right, and I always will. But at the same time, as I’ve said in the United States, I will continue to do everything in my power to pass common-sense reforms that keep guns out of the hands of criminals and dangerous people. That can save lives here in Mexico and back home in the United States. It’s the right thing to do."


I think/hope Obama, like many of us, consider those who covet assault type weapons and accessories, accumulate many guns, practice to shoot people, promote more guns, etc., as falling within the category of DANGEROUS PEOPLE.

In my opinion, the next time some yahoo tries to buy an assault weapon or accessory (especially if it adds to their weapons cache), the National Instant Criminal Background Check System should immediately tag them as a Dangerous Person, unfit to own guns.

niyad

(113,587 posts)
7. let's see--2;15 am, no headlights, idiot fires multiple rounds, did not hit the officer. so, an
Wed May 22, 2013, 09:55 AM
May 2013

idiot, and a bad shot. oh, yeah, just the sort of person who should have one of those things.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
83. Or the less obvious.
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:35 AM
May 2013

Suicide by cop.
I can't imagine someone at close range missing with an automatic weapon no matter how bad a shot they are.

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
128. More likely he was drunk at 2 a.m.
Wed May 22, 2013, 12:40 PM
May 2013

Drunk and carrying a gun whose only use is killing people makes it more likely he probably had a warrant out for his arrest and didn't want to be arrested.

 

byeya

(2,842 posts)
22. This is an example of why we're seeing the undesirable militarization of the police function.
Wed May 22, 2013, 10:20 AM
May 2013

Heavily armed people with the ability to outgun law enforcement officers during routine assignments.

I hate to see cops look like soldiers - hardly community based policing - but you can't send officers out when there are armor piercing bullets and military-type firearms widesprea among the public.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
55. Every deer rifle is 'armor piercing'.
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:01 AM
May 2013

Your great grand-dad's .30-30 lever gun will go through a IIIa vest like butter, both sides. And most police wear IIa, no plate, or sometimes a small plate over the heart. That's all.

This is a silly tangent.

 

rl6214

(8,142 posts)
38. Couldn't have been an AR15, you anti gun zealots all say the AR15 kill is everyone
Wed May 22, 2013, 10:46 AM
May 2013

When it's fired.

 

rl6214

(8,142 posts)
98. But,but,but if you're spray firing from the hip with a hi capacity assault clip
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:53 AM
May 2013

EVERYONE should be dead!

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
146. Hampered at 2 a.m. by the dark and probable
Wed May 22, 2013, 01:09 PM
May 2013

drunkenness, and handicapped, apparently, by general stupidity at ALL times (because pulling a gun on a known armed and professionally trained cop is stupid) even a semi-automatic with a 30 round magazine wasn't enough for this man to evade the Darwin award.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
57. I always suspected that
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:02 AM
May 2013

the 'holding handguns sideways' thing was a genius attempt at social engineering to reduce fatalities from shootings.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
70. Wasn't it because the TEC-9 ejected the brass straight up and back?
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:17 AM
May 2013

With the result that you had to hold it sideways or the brass would hit you in the face.

Progressive dog

(6,920 posts)
73. Maybe it's to increase collateral damage.
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:20 AM
May 2013

Nobody can accuse Wayne or Ted or the other NRA spokespeople of being geniuses.

frylock

(34,825 posts)
77. sentence structure, or reasoning for that matter, aren't really your strong suits..
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:26 AM
May 2013

are they? now go kiss your precious wittle gun.

Response to frylock (Reply #77)

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
139. Dark outside and probably drunk at 2 a.m.
Wed May 22, 2013, 12:51 PM
May 2013

clearly makes it difficult for a gunner to kill anyone, even with a weapon whose function it is to kill people.

MineralMan

(146,335 posts)
12. The interesting thing here seems to me to be
Wed May 22, 2013, 09:59 AM
May 2013

that the officer was not hit by any of the fire from the AR-15, but the officer was able to hit the shooter. That is the difference between aimed and random fire. I saw the video of this incident. The guy with the AR-15 was firing without aiming. The cop aimed, fired and hit the guy with the AR-15.

This is why the "militia" types are not that much of a threat, really. A major annoyance, but not a real threat to law enforcement in the long run.

MineralMan

(146,335 posts)
16. Yes, of course. I'm really talking, though, about
Wed May 22, 2013, 10:07 AM
May 2013

the calls from some sectors about "taking up arms" against "tyranny." This is the mantra of the extreme 2nd Amendment advocates, who have invested in their AR-15 clones and big boxes of ammo for them. A moron who probably fits into that group was the shooter in this incident. His lack of effectiveness against a cop with a pistol is what I'm looking at.

Reliance on semi-auto fire to take the place of carefully-aimed fire seems to be the concept the morons apply. That is not the concept taught to trained people. This incident is evidence of which strategy is most effective, I think.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
17. Not a real threat?
Wed May 22, 2013, 10:12 AM
May 2013

We have things in this country, you may have heard of them, called massacres. Where these "militia types" walk into schools or movie theatres or malls and slaughter everyone. That's not really what one would call an annoyance.

And what if the guy had been wearing body armor? Would that have given him more time to spray bullets? What if this had been in a crowded area? This fuckwad was allowed, no it was his gawd-given right, to own a weapon that kills people. Lots of people. Dead children. Giving it the brush off just allows the problem to continue.

 

premium

(3,731 posts)
18. What "militia types" has walked into schools or movie theaters or mall and
Wed May 22, 2013, 10:15 AM
May 2013

slaughtered everyone? Everyone of those incidents have been perpetrated by a mentally ill person, not a militia type person.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
25. I characterize those who stockpile weapons
Wed May 22, 2013, 10:31 AM
May 2013

and load themselves up with military-style armory "militia-types." If the definition is a tea partier squalling about the 2nd amendment, there have been some of those too, like say, Timothy McVeigh. It's sort of a moving target to pin nutters down, they exist over a wide spectrum. But the one thing they all have in common is they believe their right to own a deadly weapon trumps his fellow-citizen's right to live.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
28. Adam Lanza, James Holmes and Seung-Hui Cho were not "militia-types."
Wed May 22, 2013, 10:38 AM
May 2013

they were so fucking crazy that they were truly living in an alternate reality. They were genuine, 100% psychotics.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
35. And thinking one has to stockpile weapons in the bunker
Wed May 22, 2013, 10:44 AM
May 2013

For armageddon or when the feds come and steal away your freedumbs is sane?

hack89

(39,171 posts)
48. We were talking about people that carry out mass slaughter
Wed May 22, 2013, 10:52 AM
May 2013

You were the one that made the connection.

Can you show that Adam Lanza, James Holmes and Seung-Hui Cho stockpiled weapons in bunkers and had Tea Party politician beliefs? Didn't think so.

Can you show a single example of a true militia member carrying out a mass killing?

 

dothemath

(345 posts)
114. true militia member ???????
Wed May 22, 2013, 12:23 PM
May 2013

What is a 'true militia member'? Are there false militia members? How does one tell the difference? Is there a difference?

A well armed citizen militia was allowed when a despotic king of a foreign nation decided to carry out the will of his nation, a colonial power, and one of their conquests decided uh uh. What foreign nation (or maybe person) is presently attempting to do the same thing today?

Oh wait, I forgot about the Kenyan muslim socialist and his minions. Silly me.

Wake up, people, the miniscule number of about 300 million guns in this country is paltry. I figure about 300 million more will give us a good start to the billion guns we need.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
130. What is a 'true militia member'? Damn good question
Wed May 22, 2013, 12:41 PM
May 2013

that is what I was asking.

The right to own guns is an individual right - if you have any questions, ask President Obama or check the Democratic party platform.

sarisataka

(18,782 posts)
141. Little correction
Wed May 22, 2013, 12:54 PM
May 2013
A well armed citizen militia was allowed when a despotic king of a foreign nation decided to carry out the will of his nation, a colonial power, and one of their conquests decided uh uh.

there was no foreign about it, the colonies were British, the colonists were British citizens and King George III was the rightful king and legitimate ruler. They colonists tried for years to petition their grievances and even upon taking up arms in 1775 they colonies did not seek independence but tried to negotiate a settlement for nearly a year.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
26. Wanted to add
Wed May 22, 2013, 10:34 AM
May 2013

When does a militia-type who stockpiles weapons fall into the official category of "mentally ill"? Answer: when he goes into a mall and massacres people. Until then he's a nutter with access to deadly weaponry so we should all just leave him alone right?

Adam Lanza's mother was a militia-type who was hoarding weapons for fear of some sort of civil unrest. That's not mental illness?

 

premium

(3,731 posts)
32. Then again,
Wed May 22, 2013, 10:43 AM
May 2013

she's not the one that committed that horrific act is she? It was her son, who was mentally ill, not part of any militia, that committed the act.
Stockpiling weapons is not necessarily a sign of mental illness, despite what you may think.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
37. "Stockpiling weapons is not necessarily a sign of mental illness..."
Wed May 22, 2013, 10:46 AM
May 2013

Did you really just write that?

 

premium

(3,731 posts)
43. Yeah, I did,
Wed May 22, 2013, 10:50 AM
May 2013

I have a brother that has over 40 handguns, I've lost count of how many rifles he owns, guess what? He's not mentally ill, he's the Sheriff of the county I live in. Your broad brush of gun owners who collect firearms is crap, plain and simple. People collect firearms for a variety of reasons, just because you think it's a sign of mental illness, doesn't mean it is.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
68. Do you think it is?
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:16 AM
May 2013

Any other collecting hobbies you think are signs of mental illness? I have a lot of old books, for instance.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
75. Stockpiling weapons =/= collecting
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:24 AM
May 2013

Or perhaps I have a moviefied view of WWI revolvers that don't work behind glass cases.

Stockpiling or hoarding DOES often equal a form of mental disturbance. The need to have an overabundance of something in order to feel safe is a sign of a larger problem. If that person feels he must be surrounded by lots of death-wielding fire sticks, it's an even BIGGER problem.

These are not guys collecting hunting rifles or even shotguns. These are guys who are collecting military-style weapons for imaginary survival purposes against an unknown or imagined threat. That's not a form of mental illness?

I guess I shouldn't ask any of these things in question form because I'm off this thread. I don't have the energy that pro-gunners do apparently and wish to move on to a more productive use of time.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
78. The difference between a "collection" and a "stockpile" or "hoard" is rhetorical.
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:27 AM
May 2013

Sort of like calling a bunch of buildings a "complex" (positive, or at least neutral) vs. a "compound" (negative)

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
177. Ah, we are blessed by the presence of another telepsychologist
Wed May 22, 2013, 03:51 PM
May 2013

While you were busy learning how to diagnose mental illness at a distance, did you also have to
take courses in phrenology?

Crunchy Frog

(26,655 posts)
120. Didn't technically commit it.
Wed May 22, 2013, 12:29 PM
May 2013

Just enabled it by amassing an arsenal and providing access to a homicidal maniac.

You may believe she bears no responsibility, but I differ in my opinion. If she wasn't already dead, she would deserve to spend the rest of her life in prison for her complicity in those murders.

 

premium

(3,731 posts)
123. You may be right.
Wed May 22, 2013, 12:34 PM
May 2013

She knew her son was mentally ill, she kept an arsenal in the house, didn't seem to have those weapons properly secured. I have to give the home run to you. Good point.
But my point is that no "militia types" have committed any mass murder in the recent shootings,

Progressive dog

(6,920 posts)
69. Nah, they use bombs like McVeigh
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:17 AM
May 2013

No crazies there, just people who claim to be Patriots, but train to fight the government.
Some gun nuts actually believe that the 1st US Congress added a suicide clause to the Constitution. They believe that the second amendment provides that if the self selected "new militia rulers" don't like the government, they can overthrow it.
These mentally ill people believe that they can claim rights under the Constitution to overthrow the government set up by that Constitution. That's why these militias exist.

 

premium

(3,731 posts)
79. That's not what the poster I replied to said, but then you know that, huh. nt.
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:30 AM
May 2013

Poster said that "militia types" were responsible for the mass shootings lately, which is simply not true, it's been mentally ill persons with no connection to militia groups.

Progressive dog

(6,920 posts)
103. The poster said militia types
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:59 AM
May 2013

The poster said militia types. See, here we agree. But gun nuts can subscribe to militia views without actually joining a militia.
Maybe they didn't have the money or the time to train in overthrowing the government. Maybe they weren't quite as insane as the ones who did join.
Type is not the same as member.

MineralMan

(146,335 posts)
19. I'm not talking about random shooters in mass shootings.
Wed May 22, 2013, 10:15 AM
May 2013

I'm talking about something else, altogether.

Paladin

(28,276 posts)
20. Caterwauling from Gun Enthusiasts re "AR-15-style rifle" in 3..2..1...
Wed May 22, 2013, 10:19 AM
May 2013

Not an exact-enough firearm description from the Evil Media for you, Gun Enthusiasts? Ready to gripe because the make, model and caliber of the rifle aren't in bold relief, yet? Catch a clue from the Oklahoma tornado coverage: first it was a category 4, now it's a category 5; death estimates went as high as 99 before settling down to around 24, etc. etc., etc. That's the nature of reports from hectic situations---details evolve and sharpen as time goes on. Thanks for your attention to this public service announcement.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
39. Why? That's a good description
Wed May 22, 2013, 10:47 AM
May 2013

It was an AR-15 style rifle. ("AR-15" is like "Kleenex"; it's actually a brand name but it gets applied to competing products too.)

Paladin

(28,276 posts)
62. Surely you jest.
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:07 AM
May 2013

An initial, inexact description like that is enough to ignite magnum-force conspiracy howling from our Gun Enthusiast crowd. I've seen it dozens of times over the years, here at DU. "AR-15" is like "Kleenex"? Yeah, let's see how that comparison stands up, next time the first reports come in of a mass killing in which such a rifle is used; unfortunately, we probably won't have to wait very long.....

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
65. Nope. People complain about misuse of the phrases "assault rifle" and "assault weapon" mostly
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:10 AM
May 2013

They are mutually exclusive but they get used in the media as if they mean the same thing. An AR-15 style rifle is certainly not an assault rifle and may or may not be an assault weapon, but it routinely gets called both, which annoys some people.

It's like "Kleenex" in that "AR-15 style rifle" accurately describes that type of carbine, like saying "Kleenex style tissue" or "Band-aid style bandage".

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
84. Who cares? This perp obviously acquired his AR-15 to use as an assault weapon. Most do I think.
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:36 AM
May 2013

They might not use it, but that's part of the consideration when most choose what type weapon they acquire next.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
119. And that usage is acceptable.
Wed May 22, 2013, 12:29 PM
May 2013

Both from legal definition (as law defines 'Assault Weapon', which may variously be as little as a rifle that accepts a detachable magazine in some jurisdictions) and for common parlance, as the rifle design suggests something like what is defined as an assault weapon.

If you meant to troll, you should have said 'assault rifle'. Gotta bait your hook.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
118. The primary objection is usually made when
Wed May 22, 2013, 12:27 PM
May 2013

one of two conditions are true:

1. The author of the article misattributes 'Assault Rifle' to an AR-15, which by definition, it is not, except some very early prototypes.
2. The author has clearly mis-identified some other weapon platform as an AR-15 as evidenced by a photo or surveillance footage attached to the story.

Calling a AR-variant an 'AR-15' generically, I've never seen people object to in a material way. (They might point out it's an M-4 or something like that, but it never halts the discussion.)

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
60. Actually there's nothing wrong with that description.
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:06 AM
May 2013

No one took liberty license and assumed it was a machine gun or anything stupid like that. The description is adequate identification for discussion.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
67. You have two "gun" people saying the description is accurate and none complaining like you predicted
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:15 AM
May 2013

Maybe that should tell you something?

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
122. Hopefully it told you
Wed May 22, 2013, 12:30 PM
May 2013

you utterly failed to grasp the objections made in the past, because otherwise, there was no point to this thread tangent.

 

Pragdem

(233 posts)
23. How many more incidents must we go through...
Wed May 22, 2013, 10:23 AM
May 2013

Until society realizes that the majority of those that surround them are not capable of handling the amount of freedoms they enjoy in this country?

One_Life_To_Give

(6,036 posts)
24. Drunk and stupid's no way to go thru life son
Wed May 22, 2013, 10:25 AM
May 2013

I suppose with attempted murder of an officer the DUI charge would be meaningless. But I can't imagine this guy was even remotely sober.

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
169. Doubtful. Drunk, dark and inexperienced is more likely
Wed May 22, 2013, 02:31 PM
May 2013

why none of the shots in his 30 round magazine hit the police officer and why he fired in the first place is likely to be because of a warrant for his arrest, as often happens in situations like this. Time will tell...the idiot is still alive but barely.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
170. Well, it's not inconsistent with a suicide by cop.
Wed May 22, 2013, 02:33 PM
May 2013

Some people who engage in it will deliberately miss for having no intention to actually harm the officer. They are merely trying to provoke a lethal response.

Your expectation of the cause is plenty likely though. We will see.

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
197. A police car spotlight in the dark appears to have blinded the gunman
Wed May 22, 2013, 06:34 PM
May 2013
...the officer used training strategies that likely saved his life. The spotlight on the officer's car appears to have blinded the gunman.

&quot The officer) got to the other side of the vehicle, which really helped him. Fortunately, I don't think (the gunman) knew where the officer was,"...


http://www.dailycamera.com/ci_23295214/longmont-police-officer-ok-suspect-critical-after-overnight


The gunman had previous DUI's with a suspended license.

liberal N proud

(60,346 posts)
27. I thought this wouldn't happen if you were carrying a gun
Wed May 22, 2013, 10:35 AM
May 2013

That carrying a gun made one a responsible adult who would not lose it?


Another gunnut myth debunked! AGAIN!

 

rl6214

(8,142 posts)
29. There is no way...don't you know nobody survives an assault by someone
Wed May 22, 2013, 10:41 AM
May 2013

With an AR15? just in case I needed to put it here)

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
51. Headlines often are written by others; an editor maybe.
Wed May 22, 2013, 10:56 AM
May 2013

Yeah, it's poorly written, but we'll be okay in the long run.

Bay Boy

(1,689 posts)
54. I see what you mean...
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:00 AM
May 2013

it would seem to be saying that the bad guy was shooting at a police officer who was holding an AR-15

 

Nimajneb Nilknarf

(319 posts)
58. The officer brandishing a repeating breech-loading rifle musket would seem an over-reaction
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:03 AM
May 2013

to someone failing to turn on his headlights.

denverbill

(11,489 posts)
36. For Rimjob's sake, I hope he already donated to the freeper 2nd quarter fund drive.
Wed May 22, 2013, 10:45 AM
May 2013

I wonder what his freeper handle was?

 

FarCenter

(19,429 posts)
56. Sounds like a "suicide by cop" case.
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:02 AM
May 2013

Or the guy was seriously chemically impaired at 2:15 am driving without headlights.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
59. I have hundreds of gun threads trashed, but this one points out one of the ignored
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:04 AM
May 2013

factors in this whole issue, the person behind the gun.

Dumbass shitkicker spends a grand to get an ugly rifle and decides to show the cop how tough he is, so he gets out and starts spraying bullets. He is killed by multiple aimed shots from a handgun.

Javaman

(62,534 posts)
63. Okay so let's think about this...
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:09 AM
May 2013

obviously the guy was crazy.

that aside, it's apparent he proscribed to the "need to arm oneself in the event of...whatever" Thinking that his AR-15 would do the kind of damage he felt was required to protect himself.

and here is a well trained police officer with a pistol.

man comes out of car, with no firing discipline, shooting wildly with no apparent aim nor training.

Here is a police officer whose training, no doubt, kicks in as second nature, probably assumed a firing stance, maintained proper firing discipline and aimed his shots.

this falls under the old "moron with a gun" topic.

 

otohara

(24,135 posts)
85. Perfect Timing - Lawsuit by 50 Colo Sheriffs
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:37 AM
May 2013

they don't like them new gun laws and are suing the state.

Horse with no Name

(33,956 posts)
89. Clearly, he thought the officer was out of line by stopping him
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:43 AM
May 2013

welcome to the Wild West where every asshat has a gun and will shoot you if he disagrees.

Caeser67

(156 posts)
91. Anyone Esle Ever Notice That
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:45 AM
May 2013

People who have weapons IN BROAD SITE, and fire on Police, are injured by them, but a lot of people who have NO WEAPONS AT ALL (Wallets, Newspapers, Belt Buckles) are killed? How does that happen?

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
93. Something is wrong with this picture.
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:47 AM
May 2013

Maybe it's the information or the way the piece was written, but the narrative is that a guy with an assault rifle opens up on a cop with a pistol (I suppose) from a distance that couldn't have been much more than 30 ft., if that, and the guy with the rifle misses "multiple times" while the cop puts 4 rounds in him. I am curious to hear more.

MiniMe

(21,719 posts)
116. I'd assume alcohol was involved
Wed May 22, 2013, 12:24 PM
May 2013

Guy driving with no headlights in the middle of the night, opens fire on an officer with a semi-automatic rifle, and misses every shot.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
142. What's wrong with it? If you're an idiot and believe reality is like a video game
Wed May 22, 2013, 01:00 PM
May 2013

and just start blasting away, the odds are overwhelming that you are not going to hit what you want to. It is a lucky thing that none of those rounds hit somebody half a mile away sleeping in their own bed.

Spray & pray is just as effective as all other forms of prayer.

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
147. Possibly,
Wed May 22, 2013, 01:11 PM
May 2013

but unless the guy with the AR-15 was very seriously impaired, the cop should be dead, unless he fired first.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
148. Rifles aren't very useful when you're close to someone
Wed May 22, 2013, 01:25 PM
May 2013

Between a guy with a rifle and a guy with a pistol, within 20 yards or so I'd rather be the guy with the pistol. (Though obviously I'd rather be neither.)

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
210. well, no
Thu May 23, 2013, 01:15 AM
May 2013

Like I said, they aren't very useful at close range.

I was a Marine for almost a decade; we spent a lot of time training situations like that.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
214. Well, I fought in Iraq and I say the opposite
Thu May 23, 2013, 07:33 AM
May 2013

There's a reason we kept trying to shorten the M16 until they got us a true bullpup. Which they still haven't.

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
215. I think the shorter
Thu May 23, 2013, 08:42 AM
May 2013

rifle was a good idea, but even a short rifle remains a rifle. It has more punch and a lot more firepower. Anyway, Semper Fi.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
216. Semper fi too
Thu May 23, 2013, 08:44 AM
May 2013

It has more firepower and it's harder to aim. Maybe it's a training difference: coming in to Fallujah we were trained to hit the handgun holders first.

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
218. It must be something
Thu May 23, 2013, 08:57 AM
May 2013

like that. In Nam not many people had pistols. Those who did carried them as a last resort. A few guys also humped shot guns. I never thought that was a particularly good idea, but they were good at close range. They just took too long to fire and reload. We even had a guy who carried a Thompson. It worked well for blasting through thick jungle. I carried a CAR 15 barrel attached to a regular M16 receiver. It was very short. The guys at the motor pool modified AK magazines for it. They carried 39 .223 rounds. Well, I guess it's whatever works and how you're trained. Have a good one.

 

premium

(3,731 posts)
219. Nam vet here also,
Thu May 23, 2013, 09:03 AM
May 2013

on top of my M-16, I also carried the squads Bloop Gun, great weapon for it's day.

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
221. Yea, we called 'em
Thu May 23, 2013, 09:53 AM
May 2013

"thump guns" M-72 right? They were the only thing we had to fight back with against RPGs. Our 81mm mortar guys (bless their hearts) could unload, but God only knew where the rounds might land.

 

premium

(3,731 posts)
222. M-79.
Thu May 23, 2013, 10:04 AM
May 2013


We called it a bloop gun because of the sound it made as the 40mm grenade was leaving the barrel.
 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
223. Right. M-79 not 72
Thu May 23, 2013, 10:27 AM
May 2013

It's been awhile. I seem to recall we had HE, shotgun and even CS rounds for it, but the shotgun rounds weren't very reliable. They had a lot of misfires.

 

premium

(3,731 posts)
224. You're correct.
Thu May 23, 2013, 10:32 AM
May 2013

I carried the HE, shotgun and CS rounds and those shotgun rounds weren't very reliable at all, used the HE more often than shotgun rounds.

politicat

(9,808 posts)
183. Local story for me. The AR-15 guy has several alcohol offenses on his record.
Wed May 22, 2013, 04:03 PM
May 2013

Including a DUI and a driving while under suspension.

But no felonies.

The local article is here:

http://www.dailycamera.com/ci_23295214/longmont-police-officer-ok-suspect-critical-after-overnight

niyad

(113,587 posts)
195. thank you for the link.
Wed May 22, 2013, 05:33 PM
May 2013

these two paragraphs were interesting:

While police investigated the scene on Wednesday morning, the officer's car and the Subaru sat about four parking spaces apart at the edge of the Best Buy parking lot, near the road.

A pool of blood was visible next to the officer's car, which still had its lights flashing. The suspect's AR-15 style gun lay nearby. Police set up a mobile command center and draped crime scene tape directly in front of the Best Buy.

 

The Second Stone

(2,900 posts)
96. Very pleased the officer was not physically injured
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:50 AM
May 2013

but how drunk does this gun owning criminal (lights out on car) have to be to miss with an AR-15 semi auto at close range?

DallasNE

(7,403 posts)
107. 2nd Time This Month
Wed May 22, 2013, 12:09 PM
May 2013

That some nut with an assault rifle is pulled over for a traffic infraction and gets out of his car and fires on the officers. Thanks NRA, more blood on your hands.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/05/04/ak-47-wielding-gunman-fires-37-times-at-shocked-cops-during-routine-traffic-stop/

sigmasix

(794 posts)
131. law abiding responsible gun owner
Wed May 22, 2013, 12:41 PM
May 2013

The NRA and other antiAmerican right wing extremists are responsible for the status of our gun safety laws. When the criteria for being considered a responsible gun owner is a simple birthday and citizenship, we can expect these type of results. The entire point behind the statement that he was a responsible gun owner until he wasnt is the fact that we ought to use some common sense and apply the lessons of history in coming to a determination about who constitutes a responsible, safe gun owner.
The NRA and other gundamentalists have destroyed common sense notions about the difference between safe gun ownership behavior and unsafe gun ownership behavior. For instance: someone that entertains and promulgates paranoid gunspiracy theories is, more often than not, a bad risk to the community if they have the legal right to amass arsenals of guns in thier home or compound. Almost all of America's mass shooting perps share the same paranoid conspiracy theories about the gubmint being out to take thier guns and make them do or be something against thier will. We all know this to be a fact, yet NRA supporters continue to claim there is no way to determine which gun owners will use thier guns in an irresponsible way. There are numerous testing technologies and community mental health organizations that can offer some of the tools needed to ferret out the would-be gun owner that represents a considerable risk to society. Somehow we are able to devise standards and tests that keep criminals from becoming police officers, child rapists from becoming teachers and village idiots from becoming brain surgeons. But the NRA and it's supporters would have Americans believe that the founding fathers didnt want future generations to use common sense when it comes to gunz- the NRA teaches Americans that the founding fathers intended the 2nd amendment to be used by any misanthrope to amass an armory of death and destruction to use as a threat against our democratically elected government and law enforcement officials. The NRA insists that there is no way to know who will be an irresponsible gun owner, before the gun owner becomes irresponsible. This notion flies in the face of reason and history. We have all of the tools we need to begin restricting gun ownership for those that have proven to be irresponsible about other important adult responsibilities. A man that beats his wife and children is a bad risk for gun ownership, yet the NRA works tirelessly to pass laws that reinstate gun rights for spousal abuse convicts. We know that an individual that is convinced there are black helicopters and weather control weapons at work to force certain americans into re-education fema camps is not a good risk for gun ownership, yet the core of right wing NRA support comes from individuals that admit to maintaining these partisan paranoid delusions.
This is the main problem with allowing a pro-gun-nut organization to masquerade as a gun sports and rights organization. America's gun problem arises from the systemic destruction of basic common sense gun ownership regulations by extreme right wing operatives that are only interested in the destruction of America and the liberties gained from the north defeating the south in the civil war. The right wing extremists that control the NRA have been targeting our gun laws because they know that the conditions created by the firearm free-for-all will dissolve American cohesion and lead to social conditions that will weaken our democracy.

The NRA and other right wing organizations are like vultures; America has been hurt badly by the defection of the republican party to the antiAmerican right wing- and the right wing vultures are picking over the corpse of our democracy in search of anything that is left of the infrastructure to give to the big donors. What is going to be left for our children after the right wing steals, destroys or shoots everything of worth in our once beautiful country?
But NRA supporters continue to play "hero in thier own mind" games that lead to further enhancing the rift between responsible gun ownership and NRA-approved gun ownership.

Arkana

(24,347 posts)
178. If only that policeman had been armed...
Wed May 22, 2013, 03:51 PM
May 2013

oh, wait a minute, he was, and people STILL FUCKING GOT HURT.

KG

(28,753 posts)
188. 'no one tells a true hero of the 2nd amendment that they need headlights to drive. no one!'
Wed May 22, 2013, 04:40 PM
May 2013

(fave comment)

librechik

(30,676 posts)
196. (2:15 am) "here, hold my beer. What did you say?"
Wed May 22, 2013, 05:59 PM
May 2013

bang!

I'll bet if this gun lover recovers, he will have no memory of the incident.

Historic NY

(37,453 posts)
205. Lucky officer.......
Wed May 22, 2013, 09:41 PM
May 2013

thankfully this idiot shot up the area in the early morning hrs instead of regular business time.

Deep13

(39,154 posts)
226. The revolution against oppressive headlight requirements has begun!
Fri May 24, 2013, 01:59 PM
May 2013

Wait...what?

Glad to hear the cop escaped without injury (which means the defendant is about the worst shot ever.)

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