Do you think Paul Wellstone was murdered?

[Nye Bevan]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Stinky The Clown (a host of the General Discussion forum).

Other pilots at the charter company told NTSB that pilot Richard Conry and first officer (co-pilot) Michael Guess both displayed below average flying skills. Conry had a well-known tendency to allow co-pilots to take over all functions of the aircraft as if they were the sole pilot during flights. After the crash, three copilots told of occasions in which they had to take control of the aircraft away from Conry.[27] After one of those incidents, only three days before the crash, the co-pilot (not Guess) had urged Conry to retire.[30] In a post-accident interview Timothy Cooney, Conry's longtime friend and fellow aviator, said that he last spoken to Conry in June 2001 and had expressed concerns about difficulties he had flying King Airs as late as April of that year, eighteen months prior to the accident.[31] Significant discrepancies were also found in the captain's flight logs in the course of the post-accident investigation indicating he had probably greatly exaggerated his flying experience, most of which had been accrued before a 9 - 10 year hiatus from flying due to a fraud conviction and poor eyesight.[27] He had Lasik surgery but it only improved his vision to 20/50, 20/30[32] and he was required by FAA regulations to wear corrective lenses.[33] However, the pilot's wife and Timothy Cooney said he did not wear lenses after the surgery.[34] The coroner who examined his badly burned body was unable to determine if he was wearing contacts at the time of the crash.[35]

Guess was cited by co-workers as having to be consistently reminded to keep his hand on the throttle and maintain airspeed during approaches.[27] He had two previous piloting jobs: one with Skydive Hutchinson as a pilot (1988–1989), and another with Northwest Airlines as a trainee instructor (1999). However, he was dismissed from both jobs for lack of ability.[36] Conry's widow told the NTSB that her husband told her “the other pilots thought Guess was not a good pilot.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Wellstone

21 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Poll closed
	Yes. It is more likely than not that Paul Wellstone was murdered.
	11 (52%)
	No. Paul Wellstone's death was most likely accidental.
	10 (48%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[loli phabay]

1. no, small planes crash.

[MAD Dave]

2. Based simply on the Wiki quote...

.....I would suggest that it was pilot error.

[Raine1967]

3. I voted No. Do you think he was murdered?

[Nye Bevan]

4. Absolutely not. But the "stay away from small planes" meme is very common here.

Most recently in the context of Elizabeth Warren. I have even seen it argued that JFK Junior was likely murdered. But it seems to me that there are many, many easier and more reliable ways to assassinate someone.

[Raine1967]

7. Thanks for the reply.

I appreciate it.

I don't think JFK Jr was murdered, I think he was a very inexperienced pilot. He lost his way that night.

I see that meme, and I am not sure if I like it. It's almost as if we should be afraid that the people we really want to represent us will be assassinated.

This was a big meme after Obama was elected as well. I see it happening with the new pope as well. It's kinda sad; it's almost as if there is an assumption that when a good thing comes along we should expect it to be taken away.

[Yo_Mama]

5. The FAA concluded it was pilot error

Article summarizing findings:
http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/uscongress/a/wellstonentsb.htm

"During the later stages of the approach," the Board said, the flight crew "failed to monitor the airplane's airspeed and allowed it to decrease to a dangerously low level (as low as about 50 knots below the company's recommended approach speed) and to remain below the recommended approach speed for about 50 seconds." The airplane then entered a stall from which it did not recover.

[LAGC]

6. I chose "none of the above."

With that much inexperience and incompetence on the part of the pilots, that isn't accidental -- that's negligent on the part of the charter company!

[truth2power]

8. I vote yes. n/t

[Octafish]

9. Sen. Ted Kennedy was flying with Sen. Wellstone earlier on that day.

Otherwise, the "accident" would have taken out two of the voices opposing the illegal, immoral, unnecessary, disastrous and phony war on Iraq.

Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., had been campaigning with Wellstone earlier today. Wellstone had left Kennedy, who was giving a speech on Wellstone's behalf, to travel to the Rukavina funeral.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=91102&page=1#.UaVYhdIp92A

A coincidence, I'm sure not, going by the smear job of a Wikipedia article.

Who remembers the rest of the Michael Guess story?

A: He's one of the flight instructors who sniffed out Zacarias Mousaoui, the "20th Hijacker" who never got off the ground, but whose civil rights were protected to the fullest extent imaginable by Crisco Ashcroft and his anointed FBI.

[dflprincess]

13. Actually Kennedy was not in a plane with Wellstone at all that day

Senator Kennedy was in the Twin Cities. Originally he and Wellstone were scheduled to campaign together in the metro area but Wellstone canceled so he could fly up to Iron Range for a funeral. Kennedy stayed in the cities and Walter Mondale and Warren Spannus (I think Spannus - a former state AG) made the rounds with him. Kennedy was scheduled to meet up with Wellstone later that day for a rally in Duluth.

It has been speculated - and neither Kennedy's nor Wellstone's people ever confirmed or denied it - that they would have flown up to Duluth together had they been able to stick to the original schedule.

I know there is are some pilots who think Conroy (Wellstone's pilot) was not very good but I also know someone whose husband was a commercial pilot and who flew as a passenger with Conroy and thought he was a good pilot (they were also personal friends so that may color his judgment). Conroy had flown Wellstone before and, as both Paul & Sheila were nervous flyers, it seems strange that they hadn't noticed any problems with him in the past or someone didn't clue them in so they could have asked for someone else.

There were also stories from people who lived in the area of the crash of strange goings on. I saw one live report the day of the crash (either on CNN or CBS) where an eye witness claimed he saw a flash from the tail of the plane - that interview was not replayed that I ever saw.

I also had it from a very reliable source that Karl Rove was on the phone with the (Republican) Secretary of State telling her how the already filed absentee ballots in the election should be handled before the public announcement of Wellstone's death was even made and that the opinion that came out her office was clearly written in D.C.

[upi402]

10. Stay out od small planes

And announce to the world you will never commit suicide

...if you are truly liberal.

[alcibiades_mystery]

11. Oy vey

[Whisp]

12. It's possible.

Murders are pretty common and sometimes things get covered up, especially when you have heavy players involved that can hush things up and get rid of evidence through thuggery or the store bought legal system.

It's possible.

I don't know why we are on this strict diet lately of Anything that might be suspicious is considered tin foil and one must be Crazy Person to think bad shit happens behind the scenes all the time that we may never get to know about because that's the way it is planned.

gawd.

[Jenoch]

14. I put those that believe

Wellstone was murderd in the same category as the 911 truthers and the birthers.

[Stinky The Clown]

15. This would be far more appropriate in the Creative Speculation group.

You are very welcome to repost it there. Meanwhile this thread will be locked as counter to the GD SoP.