General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhen I imagine it, I feel sick.
Sick because of how much better the world would be today.
FirstLight
(13,360 posts)seriously...think about the energy, infrastructure and planetary implications...
can't go back, but oh!... how I wish we could....
EC
(12,287 posts)If some of what he's wanted ever passed we'd be much better off. The way it is we'll be so far behind in everything compared to most other countries. We've become old and decayed. We're falling apart like empires on the decline.
It absolutely makes me sick that borrowing money to do what has to be done would cost us nothing...there is no interest on loans now ...and we are wasting it.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)No wonder they cheated, lied and did everything else to keep him out of office. Sadly some in his own party could not wait for him to give up and let the BFEE fuck us all over for 8 years. He also won the vote...but the SCOTUS made sure he could never claim the presidency.
whistler162
(11,155 posts)marions ghost
(19,841 posts)a sad day for this country.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Thinking of Iraq, Afghanistan, all the countries impacted by the right's disastrous policies...
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)yes, a sad day for the world as well.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)They then had their Supremes Court appoint the bass turd as president.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)"Selection" not election.
Yes the P/resident was not elected.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)You are correct. Bush was selected by The Supremes. Even though Diana Ross left the group years ago.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)for a long time.
Democracy in America--how can anyone think it's alive and well after what we saw?
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)democracy in America? There can be no democracy as long as corporations have the same rights as people, and money is speech.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)the comment was rhetorical--a general statement agreeing with you.
hamsterjill
(15,222 posts)WAY ahead of his time!
felix_numinous
(5,198 posts)that the whole country didn't hit the streets. Amazed, sickened, and dreading what was to come....
Brigid
(17,621 posts)That is exactly what would have happened. We just had no way of knowing how bad things would get.
deutsey
(20,166 posts)I have grave doubts we'll ever truly recover as a nation.
mrdmk
(2,943 posts)Also there were people on the street and boy, were they pissed. Of course the Media was patting themselves on the back with Mr. Bush Jr.'s coronation!
BTW: Most Presidents walk to the Inauguration. Not Shrub, he was driven to the event...
bvar22
(39,909 posts)I was joined by one other guy.
Where was everybody else?
This photo was taken the day after Bush v Gore
in which the Supreme Court STOPPED the Counting of VOTES in Florida.
The sign on my back says:
by corrupt
Supreme Court
NOT
ELECTED
by The People
--Justice John Paul Stevens dissent on Bush v Gore
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)And end up with this:
LuckyLib
(6,819 posts)horizon, but never imagined that Tricky Dick would bring himself down with his paranoia.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)We were the ones who grew up in the 60s and dreamed of the United Nations bringing world peace and an end to war and what it felt like what we got was cops cracking down on the youth of America for being too damn free and open minded.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)Some think that King and Kennedy's (both of them) were an inside job.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)...and a way of getting around term limits to give America another Liberal FDR Era and the Conservatives couldn't handle that.
villager
(26,001 posts)...since all those "coincidental" assassinations kept benefiting the exact same political actors, over and over again.
Just like the Selection.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Nixon considered all that "moon stuff" to be a "Kennedy thing" and he killed it out of spite.
PinkTiger
(2,590 posts)indicates we might have been surprised.
Not sure how I felt about his dystopic vision of if Kennedy had lived and his brother had become his successor.
Rex
(65,616 posts)and Robert Kennedy would not relent on the mob. One of the saddest periods in modern times imo.
RVN VET
(492 posts)We had Gene McArthy, Bobby Kennedy, and Hubert Humphrey -- all serious contenders at one point or another -- and I think even George McGovern was in the running. 4 really strong and exciting Liberals -- and in one of the bitterest ironies of American history, the American voter put Nixon in the White House.
In 2000, it was Al Gore, a Vietnam veteran who actually volunteered and went to Vietnam, versus little drunk-punk Bush who squeezed into the National Guard to avoid Vietnam and ran away from his mandatory physical because it included a drug test. But it wasn't irony or the American voter who put that little butt-wart in the White House. It was the Supremes, casting an obviously political vote for an obviously incompetent little snake.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)navarth
(5,927 posts)wandy
(3,539 posts)It would be hard to describe "that" without using words not found in the bible.
Still, as despicable as Nixon was the republican party has managed to just go down hill from there.
calimary
(81,322 posts)And I remember it painfully well.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)...and realize the older generation was voting for him to discipline their kids.
Mr.Bill
(24,303 posts)in New York that might still be standing.
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)That might've been enough to stop 9/11.
CBHagman
(16,986 posts)While even I wouldn't go far enough to say 9/11 might have been prevented, at least we wouldn't have had the reinvent-the-wheel mindset of the Bush administration, the dismissal of Richard Clarke's concerns, plus the truly wretched knowledge that when the August 6th Presidential Daily Brief announced that bin Laden was intent on attacking in the U.S., GWB simply stayed on his August vacation.
The September 11th edition of The New York Times contained a front-page story on planned cuts to counterterrorism programs, too.
Ready4Change
(6,736 posts)The outgoing Clinton administration recommended that the incoming Bush administration make AQ a top priority. They said that either you make AQ your top priority, or AQ will make themselves your top priority.
Bush administration threw away those recommendations outright. This was in the age of 'thank god the adults are back in control.' They ignored AQ, started dismantling the programs put in place to track and contain AQ, and ignored intelligence briefings about AQ actions.
Basically, the Bush administration asked for it, and AQ delivered on 9/11.
I think there's a very good chance that, had Gore won office, his administration would have continued the pursuit of AQ, 9/11 wouldn't have occurred, and today the right wing would be trying to win elections by saying how horrible the corporate tax rates are in a time period when the economy has been booming like gangbusters due to continued budget surplus.
Bah.
PotatoChip
(3,186 posts)(credit for video goes to Tony FLADEM in the Pet's Group)
SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)RVN VET
(492 posts)But it's just too painful to think about. Al and Bobby both had their flaws, but compared to the winners in those elections, they were saints. Al and Bobby were the future of America. Bush and Nixon were it's end. Obama can't turn it around because the corporations have effectively seized control of the House forever and anon. And the House is bent on destruction through obstruction.
Maybe 2014 will see a turn around. But if it doesn't see a turnaround, it may well mark the beginning of the ineluctable end.
ReRe
(10,597 posts)... a Revolution can be averted in 2014, by sweeping Democrats into offices across this land and booting the Dinos to the curb once and for all. Talk about people in the streets! Block parties in the streets of America and all over the world, for that matter!
I'm Irish. Let me dream and work my fingers to the bone to make it happen.
mountain grammy
(26,624 posts)2014: the end of conservatism and corporatism in America. A victory for the people. Scalia, Thomas: Impeached! Honest judges appointed to all federal courts. Mike Papantonio for Attorney General! Ok, now I'm really dreaming, but yesterday should have been JFK's 97th birthday and I remember thinking we could change the world. The world had other plans and here we are blogging about how screwed up our country is and wondering if we can ever recapture the hope.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)"Who is the President of the United States?" he asked.
"Al Gore," I sneered, rolling my eyes.
He was thinking about it, so I said to him:
"I'm injured, not stupid."
He decided I was in my right mind.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)ReRe
(10,597 posts)... I remember those questions... Scared me to death that they were asking me such things! I thought "Boy, I must have gotten a bump on the head. Am I really alright?" Now, if they ask me those questions, I just answer and smile.
roamer65
(36,745 posts)Response to Pryderi (Original post)
Post removed
tridim
(45,358 posts)Yikes.
ReRe
(10,597 posts)Mr Samuel Hain
(32 posts)Neocons with guns.
cilla4progress
(24,736 posts)at least we now have this
http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&authuser=0&biw=1440&bih=815&tbm=isch&tbnid=-at0gOQ31vC-7M:&imgrefurl=http://www.biography.com/people/barack-obama-12782369&docid=6tgw8rrWywCq_M&imgurl=&w=402&h=402&ei=ZIOmUb3nGuWTiALZjoH4Dg&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:3,s:0,i:171&iact=rc&dur=580&page=1&tbnh=179&tbnw=164&start=0&ndsp=20&tx=54&ty=67
and maybe next we'll have
http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&authuser=0&biw=1440&bih=815&tbm=isch&tbnid=vYu6a_l1zooxHM:&imgrefurl=http://essentialnewsmarbella.wordpress.com/2012/12/31/hillary-clinton-hospitalized/&docid=Pt41FjDGdURPSM&imgurl=&w=1471&h=2098&ei=g4OmUbySDKH7igKooYHAAQ&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:8,s:0,i:183&iact=rc&dur=374&page=1&tbnh=175&tbnw=137&start=0&ndsp=24&tx=67&ty=53
this.
calimary
(81,322 posts)Her birthstone if I'm not mistaken.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Of course Gore should have been inaugurated in 2001. Probably no 9/11 attacks, no Afghanistan and Iraq wars. I have no idea about whether the housing bubble and ensuing financial crisis would have happened or would have been as severe; a lot would depend on whether he had kept Greenspan at the Fed.
But what really counted in Obama's favor in the primaries was his vote against the Iraq War Resolution. With no such resolution he would not have jumped to prominence so quickly. He might well have assumed the presidency one day, but may well not even have run in 2008.
I find alternate history fascinating.
Mr.Bill
(24,303 posts)He was not a member of Congress and could not officially vote against the Iraq War Resolution.
It should also be noted that Hillary Clinton voted for it, which was probably her biggest negative in the presidential primaries. Without that hanging on her, she probably would have been the nominee.
Spike89
(1,569 posts)Under the circumstances and with the information being presented to congress. There was a lot of pressure on congress, lots of false intelligence being thrown at them, and unfortunately, a huge record of Democrats being punished for appearing "weak" on defense issues. It really was only after we went into Iraq that public sentiment began to shift and the "facts" used by the administration were debunked publicly.
It was wrong and those who voted for the war resolution were wrong. I marched against the escalation to war--I didn't believe or trust the administration--but at the time, it wasn't nearly as obvious as hindsight makes it seem. I really don't know what I would have done if I'd been a Senator and had been told by a series of "experts" that the situation in Iraq was much more dangerous than it was.
calimary
(81,322 posts)Sure wouldn't have alito and roberts to kick around anymore.
The Wizard
(12,545 posts)as President Gore.
deutsey
(20,166 posts)LongTomH
(8,636 posts)The media fed us crap about the emotionless "Android Al," and repeated, ad infinitum the big lie about Gore claiming to "have invented the internet!"
We didn't get to see the Al Gore who attended Johnny Cash's 70th birthday party and gave a eulogy at his funeral. We didn't get to hear the dry humor he was capable of, unless we visited sources other than the mainstream media.
Even people on DU complained, when we heard fiery speeches from Al Gore after the election: "Why didn't we hear this in the campaign?" Because, dammit, we weren't allowed to!
nikto
(3,284 posts)The GOP would probably have impeached him for letting 9-11 happen.
nikto
(3,284 posts)He was right about the Social Security "Lock-Box".
Oh dear Lord, was he ever right.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Because after a lot of Googling, I don't. Can anyone help me with this?
Samantha
(9,314 posts)He said for the remaining two years, the government would not spend social security funds. They would be put in a different "pocket" and held safe from government spending. He said over the years, that had not been the case, especially in times of need. But now that the economy was expected to start running a surplus, the policy would be changed. The government should not have been spending those funds to begin with (words to this effect) but they had to be preserved for the purpose for which they were intended.
When he made the "lockbox" remark during the campaign, I assumed he was promising a continuation of the new policy.
Sam
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Gold? Stocks? Foreign currency? Because investing them in Treasuries is essentially the same as what we do today.
Samantha
(9,314 posts)and am sad to say I guess we will never know. But one thing is for sure: we would have been better off with Al Gore making these decisions with lawmakers than Bush*.
Sam
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)As I understood it, it wasn't that the money collected for SS would be invested any differently, it was that suplus kicked off from SS (because collections + invetsment returns > pay outs) would continue to build up the SS fund rather than being used to offset the current deficit year year, therefore making SS solvent for much much longer.
H2O Man
(73,559 posts)that 9/11 would have -- and indeed, could have -- happened if Al Gore had been allowed to hold the office that he won in the 2000 presidential election. I do not think that is a certainty, by any stretch of the imagination.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)He could have died in office, then Joe Lieberman led the country -starting a war with Iran or Syria...
You just don't know.
It's too bad he picked the worst possible Democrat in order to let everyone know that he wasn't going to really be a Progressive. He was trying to show he was more conservative than Clinton! Imagine that!
Martin Eden
(12,870 posts)Alas, that it was not so:
http://www.spike.com/video-clips/zfwna5/president-al-gore
B Stieg
(2,410 posts)...Don't remind me.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)Wonder how THAT would have worked out..
LeftishBrit
(41,208 posts)To some extent, Bush was Cheney's puppet; but most presidents aren't their VPs' puppets.
LeftishBrit
(41,208 posts)governor of Florida, and if one Supreme Court judge had voted the other way. I understand that Sandra O'Connor now feels guilty about her vote; and so she should.
As regards the general effects on the world, it might of course also have helped if Tony Blair had not been the disgusting scumbag that he is.
stlsaxman
(9,236 posts)the moment democracy died-
mountain grammy
(26,624 posts)datasuspect
(26,591 posts)we had a corporate coup in 2000.
it hasn't ended.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)Maybe not as bad as it was but I can't believe it would have been much better.
Javaman
(62,530 posts)GoCubsGo
(32,086 posts)I'd still have my old job, health insurance, my life savings... Instead, it's all gone, along with ten years off of my life from all the stress it has caused. I hope every last fucking fucker that is responsible for this travesty gets to experience the bloody hell they have caused me and millions of others. That goes not only for the whores in the Supreme Court, but also every waste of human flesh imbecile that voted to give that Shit-for-Brains sack of garbage two terms.
lark
(23,105 posts)I will never get over the Supreme court r's putting shrub in the WH to fit their own desires, fuck the voters.
I will never get over the riot in Miami from r's flown in from AK just to disrupt the process. I was there and saw it and msm just totally denied it.
I will never get over shrub allowing 9/11 and then starting a war based on lies.
The day they made shrub the resident was the worst day in American history. Tens of thousands of people from our country and Iraq (if not more) have died because of that one sick, disgusting fact.
LongTomH
(8,636 posts)kimbutgar
(21,163 posts)He was advocating for solar energy at the end of the 1970's, Marijuana laws were just starting to loosen. Just think where we would be if alternative energy was allowed to grow with the government backing it. Reagan came in and just shut it down for his oil companies buddies and increased penalties for all drugs. So much money wasted on drug enforcement. We lost innovations in the 1980's got it back in the 1990's and lost it again when the reich wing supreme court appointed bush our President our democracy was lost after that. And seeing what they are doing to President Obama is downright criminal and they stand a good chance and taking back both houses in 2014 because of the gerrymandering and red state hate for the President. When ignorant people started to believe stupid evil people we all end up getting screwed. And don't get me started on the rewriting of history by the reich wing.