The president has a press conference now, not only explaining ACA and those not supporting it, but

[still_one]

also is talking about the NSA issues.

Essentially this:

1. Congress was fully informed
2. FISA rules are being followed
3. email does NOT apply to U.S. citizens, and again through FISA court

In other words, both of the programs were approved by Congress, and reapproved by Congress, and overseen by the FISA court

He is directly calling out the folks on the right who did not have an issue with this when a republican administration was in charge

[randome]

1. If we want this to change, we need to lean on Congress.

They have a veto proof majority for the Patriot Act.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[still_one]

2. That is right, it really is about Congress. He is explaining this very well. It is a disgrace how

the media has characterized this

[Hell Hath No Fury]

5. "...it really is about Congress."

Except he had an opportunity to say "no" in 2011, and he made the choice not to. He is ideologically fully onboard with the surveillance State.

[bowens43]

7. The buck stops at Obama.

[still_one]

14. Sorry, that is not how the republic works

[NCTraveler]

17. Not only does congress have a veto proof majority for the Patriot Act.

We have a President who is fully on board with it. There is no turning back when these people are given power. So many of them seem to become more and more entrenched in centrist/right wing policies. Drones in multiple countries? yes. Patriot Act? Loves it. Tax cuts as stimulus? Of course, he has great admiration for Regan. Heritage Foundation health care law? Brilliant.

You refuse to admit that congress has the Presidents full blessing on this. It is not all about congress. Congress has a great supporter in the White House on these issues.

[Aerows]

3. So, "It just happened"

and "Congress said it was legal because they knew about it, so that makes it legal, even though the people that elected them were never supposed to know about it."

*That's* what he's going with?

[still_one]

6. No, Congress made it legal, that is the Patriot Act. People did know about it. Maybe they did not

care, but it was clear what the Patriot Act did. There was no ambiguity about it. Enough liberals and progressives were against it under bush, and under Obama.

[Aerows]

9. They knew about it from a warrant

that was set to be de-classified in 2038? *That's* what you are going with?

[still_one]

11. I guess the question really comes down to this, do you believe in the FISA court? He said no one

would debate it before, and now the debate that should have happened will, and that is a good thing

[Aerows]

32. Must be a Rope-a-Dope

or chess or something. He meant to do that.

[enlightenment]

39. It is difficult to criticize a secret court

composed of federal judges appointed outside the constitutionally recognized procedure (i.e., by Congress), that is not required to hear both sides of an issue before making a decision.

Even so, FISA has been and is consistently criticized and the President is playing fast and loose with the truth to suggest that it hasn't been subject to debate.

[bowens43]

4. Who cares? Obama playing the blame game, BFD. What else is new?

[still_one]

8. No, he is explaining it to those who do not know the history. There is no blame, it is legal what

happen, and Congress has continued to reauthorize it.

Now, the question is why hasn't any challenged its Constitutionality?

Perhaps because they really do not want it changed

[gcomeau]

20. How the fuck is this "playing the game"?

Everything he's saying is true, and everyone here who was paying attention the last SEVEN FUCKING YEARS should have damn well known that already and not let the GOP play you like idiots by pretending this was some kind of breaking scandal.

[Aerows]

26. When was this "warrant" issued?

And under whose administration was this "warrant" issued?

[gcomeau]

33. "This warrant"?

The data collection was directly authorized by Congress, and re-authorized again and again and again.

You don't need a warrant for archiving the meta-data. If on the other hand you want to look at the actual *details* of any individuals phone records. Tap their conversations, look at what they're saying and sending, etc... THEN you need a warrant on a case by case basis. Not one singe "this warrant". What are you even talking about?

[NCTraveler]

10. What about....

"He is directly calling out the folks on the right who did not have an issue with this when a republican administration was in charge"

us on the left who had a problem with things like this when republicans did them. Obama too often forgets about his supporters. I don't care as much as he does about what the right is saying. I expect for them to be full of shit.

[still_one]

12. Essentially the just of this was that it is a debate that should have taken place long ago, and it

will now, and he believes that is a good thing

[Aerows]

15. I forgot...

the 11 dimensional chess thing again.

[NCTraveler]

18. Sometimes I just can't believe the things that come out of his mouth.

It is as if he is Bush talking to his base. Knowing how stupid they are.

[Aerows]

13. Those on the left that

detested this when Republicans did them don't matter. It's all about left and right and never about the fact that this is absolutely illegal under the 4th Amendment, apparently.

[LWolf]

16. He's explaining those that don't support ACA?

How does he explain them?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. Just stop spying on us. Who did it first isn't the issue..

[B2G]

21. I loved the part about how we can have a debate

WTF? We don't even know the details about what's being done, and he's not about to tell us. He asserts there are controls in place and oversight is occurring without providing any specifics at all.

This was basically one big 'trust us, we know what's best for you. We would NEVER abuse this information'.

Fuck. That.

[BlueCheese]

23. Hard to have a debate when the whole thing was supposed to be secret until 2038.

[Aerows]

25. Exactly

Trust us. We know what we are doing, and we'll tell you about it later. Much, much later, when you can't hold us accountable.

[BlueCheese]

22. Bottom line: He backs this snooping to the hilt.

Nobody is making him do this. He thinks collecting the data on every phone call made in the U.S. is the right thing to do, and that keeping the fact of it secret was the right thing to do.

All he's doing now is trying to justify its legality. It may have been legal, due to a ridiculously bad law, and some in Congress probably knew about it (though I think only a very few on the Intelligence Committee). But to me, it's still wrong, and a gross invasion of privacy and attack on our civil liberties.

[Demo_Chris]

24. Nice spin Mr President. nt

[ForgoTheConsequence]

27. Nice try Barack.

I know you can get on TV and say whatever you want and a good chunk of simple minded people will be charmed by it. Not this time. I voted for you twice, get your act together and become the guy I voted for in 2038. Secret laws and secret interpretations of laws are not acceptable.


There is a reason Feinstein, Graham, Obama, and pretty much every member of congress outside of Sanders and Paul is ok with this; its systematic. The blame game from both sides isn't going to fucking work this time.

[one_voice]

29. Oh, that's cute...

you use his first name...surprised you didn't call him Barry. Then called anyone that might agree/defend/etc with him simple minded. Insults for everyone. Nice way to have a conversation--oh wait...

Voted for him twice didja?

[ForgoTheConsequence]

35. Yes and went door to door.

Phone banked, woke up early to shake hands with him, donated what little I could afford at the time, etc. I don't care if you believe me or not you're free to run your mouth off, however don't look so offended and dumbfounded when you get left behind, the tide is changing and if you're standing in the way defending the status quo you're going to get stepped over.


And I'm not interested in having a "conversation", if you support this you're part of the problem. POTUS and Congres weren't interested in having a conversation either, well they weren't until they got caught.

[one_voice]

42. I did all the things you did...

In '08, 10, and 12.

I will also work in 14 to get more PROGRESSIVE people elected. But YOU feel free to run YOUR mouth off behind a key board calling anyone you THINK might not agree with you names.

Just for the record NO ONE steps over me, they'll get knocked on their ass, my vote, opinion, etc is just as important as your self inflated one.

Have a nice day.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

44. "knocked on their ass" haha

Everyones tougher on this internet.

[KamaAina]

28. Right here in downtown San Jose

my train went right past his hotel this morning. They actually stopped the train and searched it, complete with dogs. A macabre coincidence, given what he was defending inside.

[still_one]

38. Train or light rail?

[KamaAina]

40. Light rail

I said "train" because, sadly, most people in the U.S. don't know what light rail is. That's largely because of an antiquated Federal Railway Administration regulation that forbids liight rail tracks from crossing heavy rail tracks. Thus, building light rail systems here involves building all sorts of tunnels, flyovers, etc., at great expense.

Why don't they just call them "streetcars", or here, "tranvia"?

[still_one]

41. I don't know, but since I live here that is what I thought you meant, thanks

[tsuki]

30. Spin.

[dlwickham]

31. keep posting threads like this

maybe some people on here will actually start understanding what is going on

[still_one]

37. Only if they listen. The most important thing I got from this is the President said this debate is

Way overdue. It should have been done when the patriot act was put forth

It really come down to this, do you throw the baby out with the bath water, or find a balance

[CakeGrrl]

34. Good.

[Rex]

36. Congress buckled in to this trainwreck from day one.

They couldn't WAIT to pass the Patriot Act! Each person thumping their chest after signing the bill. I am still embarrassed they went along with the IWR.

Whatever it takes to keep the money flowing into their districts I guess?

Congress knows what to rubber stamp, their paymasters have them all on speed dial.

[Corruption Inc]

43. You go ahead and trust everyone who's spying on you, LOL

They're all wonderful people who would never, ever, ever do anything wrong, LOL!