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Recursion

(56,582 posts)
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 01:57 PM Jun 2013

Can someone fill me in: is there anything new in this spying report we didn't know in 2006?

I'm missing what's "new" here, but then again I've been in airports or airplanes for most of the last 48 hours and my brain still isn't working fully.

78 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Can someone fill me in: is there anything new in this spying report we didn't know in 2006? (Original Post) Recursion Jun 2013 OP
Not really. Except back then, the White Guy was doing it. n/t Ian David Jun 2013 #1
Thank you! I thought my brain was gone. Frustratedlady Jun 2013 #32
I feel the way you do madokie Jun 2013 #63
The opposition to this has nothing to do with race. BlueCheese Jun 2013 #37
+1 uponit7771 Jun 2013 #64
Yes AgingAmerican Jun 2013 #2
+1 uponit7771 Jun 2013 #6
Well, there's certainly that (nt) Recursion Jun 2013 #9
Yep, I expected this from a Republican, but I expected a Democrat to end the practice. 1-Old-Man Jun 2013 #16
Obama has used the law to the fullest extent possible DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #3
So why is it then that a majority (including Dems) in Congress voted for this thing Sheepshank Jun 2013 #22
Answers: DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #24
in other words all those panties in a twist over a bunch if made up maybes. N/t Sheepshank Jun 2013 #25
You're causing a problem in this country DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #28
With respect, I wish you wouldn't use terms like that to describe people who disagree with you. BlueCheese Jun 2013 #38
Obama was also part of this congress back in 2008 Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #27
That vote is my biggest disappointment in Obama, personally (nt) Recursion Jun 2013 #29
Yeah but they like to spin things Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #30
nope. It's just the monthly renewal a of a warrant they've been responding to every month librechik Jun 2013 #4
It's not like we knew about all the previous three-month renewals. BlueCheese Jun 2013 #36
it was discussed openly at the time it happened. Following your logic librechik Jun 2013 #40
He's the one who's asking for the renewals now. BlueCheese Jun 2013 #41
by "he" I think you mean the Justice Department. And like I said, he voted for it librechik Jun 2013 #46
It certainly seems a lot of people, even in government, were unaware of it until now. BlueCheese Jun 2013 #48
How could they have been unaware? mercuryblues Jun 2013 #72
NOT A DAMN THANG!!! Maddow asked the same question last night on her show uponit7771 Jun 2013 #5
No, Sir, There Is Not The Magistrate Jun 2013 #7
Impeach WovenGems Jun 2013 #12
...and be accused of supporting civil rights? brooklynite Jun 2013 #14
It won't happen because Republicans as well as Democrats review all this. randome Jun 2013 #20
^^^^^. THIS. ^^^^^^ pkdu Jun 2013 #34
+1 uponit7771 Jun 2013 #65
PRISM B2G Jun 2013 #8
How is that different from Carnivore? (nt) Recursion Jun 2013 #11
Hugely different B2G Jun 2013 #17
Nothing new. And, same old shit from the same old crowd that thinks a new POTUS=New Government. NYC_SKP Jun 2013 #10
I don't know what you mean. BlueCheese Jun 2013 #42
Of course a new President does not mean a new government Recursion Jun 2013 #44
Well, it certainly means a new executive branch. BlueCheese Jun 2013 #45
That's what I'm saying. The president sits in a chair, a role, surrounded by thousands of programs, NYC_SKP Jun 2013 #47
Was there PRISM back then, or... TreasonousBastard Jun 2013 #13
OK, my jet-lag addled brain just grasped that there are two separate programs here Recursion Jun 2013 #15
That is correct. n/t B2G Jun 2013 #19
Well, the NSA has always been off the grid and done things yer normal agencies can't do... TreasonousBastard Jun 2013 #23
No. Not really. MineralMan Jun 2013 #18
Which Glen Greenwald is very adept at doing. randome Jun 2013 #21
Indeed. And so it continues. MineralMan Jun 2013 #56
Sierra-squared, Delta-squared riqster Jun 2013 #26
Yes. "Driftnet" warrants aren't just for cities or areas, it's actually universal surveillance. leveymg Jun 2013 #31
How long has that been the case? That was my main worry about FISA initially (nt) Recursion Jun 2013 #43
Thin Thread went operational shortly after 9/11; warrantless data storage right after Bush came in. leveymg Jun 2013 #58
What is TIA? Chuuku Davis Jun 2013 #78
I think the major issue is that It is STLL happening. MindPilot Jun 2013 #33
As far as I know... BlueCheese Jun 2013 #35
Yes Aerows Jun 2013 #39
A new document detailing the over broad extent of one program morningfog Jun 2013 #49
Yes: that your President fully supports it in its entirety. nt Dreamer Tatum Jun 2013 #50
Link and quote uponit7771 Jun 2013 #67
Does it matter if there's anything new? bowens43 Jun 2013 #51
The media are all over this Rosa Luxemburg Jun 2013 #52
Not only NO! libodem Jun 2013 #53
Nope. But why skip the opportunity for poutrage? MjolnirTime Jun 2013 #54
I hadn't heard of PRISM before. (NSA and FBI retrieving data from internet servers) AndyA Jun 2013 #55
PRISM operates off the surveillance backbone created by the 1995 CALEA Act that mandated the telcos leveymg Jun 2013 #59
No, the major carriers say they have nothing installed to provide this data to the government AndyA Jun 2013 #70
Every telco must have CALEA-compliant switching equipment by law. Just Google that. leveymg Jun 2013 #71
This isn't the same thing: PRISM is not CALEA AndyA Jun 2013 #73
The metadata program uses the CALEA mandated equipment. eom leveymg Jun 2013 #74
Nope. bunnies Jun 2013 #57
I wish you were right that this were just partisan politics rather than the reality hitting people leveymg Jun 2013 #60
Its quite the thing to witness, really. bunnies Jun 2013 #61
Yes, a lot of people know and care more about Hillary's hair than about Libya and Syria, and more leveymg Jun 2013 #62
Oh, but it looks so much better longer. bunnies Jun 2013 #66
Wow, that was a stunningly pathetic attempt at a yawn. woo me with science Jun 2013 #68
The President is no longer a white male conservative... NutmegYankee Jun 2013 #69
Nope. Summer Hathaway Jun 2013 #75
Did you know the DNI found that the NSA had violated the constitution.... dkf Jun 2013 #76
And THIS is why you don't pass a bunch of shit that undermines democracy. liberalmuse Jun 2013 #77

Frustratedlady

(16,254 posts)
32. Thank you! I thought my brain was gone.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 02:46 PM
Jun 2013

In my worthless opinion, I thought this was business as usual. Then, everyone starts jumping ship like Obama came up with the idea. Good grief, isn't it bad enough that the Pugs are piling on him? So much for the "I've got your back" votes. This has been going on for a long time and you are still alive, right?

I'm certain I've been flagged, as there are a couple friends that I forward articles and photos to. It's not my words, but the media's commentary that would draw their attention, but I can't let my friends know what all is going on if I don't include the links for them to read the articles. The only people who should be offended by my emails are Republicans, as I DO rip them apart for their stupid comments and actions.

I seldom get emails on Saturday or Sunday and have always thought it was probably because I was in the group that was captured by the email spies. I've never said anything I couldn't back up, so I ignore it. To go from 100+ emails/day to a trickling...weekend after weekend...tells me something is going on.

Now, I don't like the govt. snooping, but it's better than having my home blown up or my family harmed by terrorists. I'm more concerned with what the Republicans are doing with their barrage of crap flying everywhere at the same time as though the world is coming to the end because a black man is in the White House. Isn't it strange that all this **** has been flying from all Republicans in the last week or two? I see people commenting that Obama is weak. My bet is, they wouldn't last 72 hours in his shoes with the pressure he is under. It's bad enough to run the country, always knowing you are the target. Give me a break. The guy is out in public day after day after day.

I think it's time to fire the congresscritters who aren't doing their job. If you feel the witch hunt on Obama is right, I guess I'm in the wrong country. Look at the money they have wasted chasing his behind while ignoring jobs bills, the economy and fixing the infrastructure. They get paid $170K+/year plus perks, right? Just one senator or rep's salary would go a long way in fixing even one school or sewers/streets/bridges. We should be screaming "Shame on you!" for taking a salary when they are causing so much disruption and hate in this great country of ours.

Enough already!

madokie

(51,076 posts)
63. I feel the way you do
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 05:00 PM
Jun 2013

its typical du jumping the shark. well many here that is.
It seems that so many times this place goes from one outrage to the other sometimes with out any breathing room in between. It sucks actually. IMO that is

BlueCheese

(2,522 posts)
37. The opposition to this has nothing to do with race.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 02:55 PM
Jun 2013

A lot of us were pretty damned upset when Bush was doing it too.

 

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)
3. Obama has used the law to the fullest extent possible
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 02:01 PM
Jun 2013

The fact that the President is using a law that Congress made retroactively legal under Bush, in order to spy on Americans' phone records, is new information, and is the reason it's at the top of the news now.

 

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)
22. So why is it then that a majority (including Dems) in Congress voted for this thing
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 02:14 PM
Jun 2013

and you put Obama's name all over it?

Is thre something security wise (that isn't public) that has a majority of Dems voting to retain this policy? Do they know something we possible don't know about?

 

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)
24. Answers:
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 02:18 PM
Jun 2013

Obama is responsible for employing this law to its fullest extent. Some are acting as though he must use this Soviet tactic, since its available to him. This is a ludicrous notion. Congress: it's possible they think they're protecting us with this program brought about by their votes. But it's much more likely and plausible that they're largely corrupt, both sides of the aisle to varying degrees. Diane Feinstein comes to mind as an example. Thank you.

 

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)
28. You're causing a problem in this country
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 02:29 PM
Jun 2013

It's pretty insignificant--you're only trying to shift blame to me and my alleged panties. But in large numbers, cowardly thinking and a complete refusal to hold firm to a set of principles when offered a place at the alter of worshipping the cult of personality can lead to bad things. I can't and won't support that.

 

Life Long Dem

(8,582 posts)
27. Obama was also part of this congress back in 2008
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 02:28 PM
Jun 2013

where he voted for it. So no surprise he continues to support it. You get who or what you vote for.

 

Life Long Dem

(8,582 posts)
30. Yeah but they like to spin things
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 02:35 PM
Jun 2013

and say Obama evolved once in office singing a different tune in keeping America safe.

librechik

(30,674 posts)
4. nope. It's just the monthly renewal a of a warrant they've been responding to every month
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 02:01 PM
Jun 2013

since about 2006. There just wasn't much fuss about it at the time becasue terror. And Bush must be obeyed so STFU.

This shock and surprise all of a sudden I suspect is just more of the HUGE and CONTINUING Oppo research programs the Repubs still flog 24/7 despite the end of the last election. It's just like Bengazi and IRS, flacks get paid to find and explode this shit and attach it to the Obama administration (incorrectly but who cares?)

BlueCheese

(2,522 posts)
36. It's not like we knew about all the previous three-month renewals.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 02:54 PM
Jun 2013

They were all top secret and classified until 2038. So to say that we're now angry when we weren't earlier is a weak argument. A lot of us thought that this crap ended when Bush left office.

Benghazi and the IRS are stupid political theater. This is real. That's why Al Gore, Bernie Sanders, Ron Wyden, Russ Feingold, and the ACLU are angry about it.

Tolerating things like this because it's our team in charge right now is dangerous.

librechik

(30,674 posts)
40. it was discussed openly at the time it happened. Following your logic
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 02:58 PM
Jun 2013

Obama shouldn't be blamed sither, even though he voted for the plan back in 08.

BlueCheese

(2,522 posts)
41. He's the one who's asking for the renewals now.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 03:01 PM
Jun 2013

I think a lot of people thought that the program ended with Bush. We're angry to find out that it has continued under Obama, and that he believes it.

Honestly, I think focusing on Obama's role in this is counterproductive. Once his name is mentioned, DU splits into warring factions. I would think most DUers agree that this kind of massive surveillance is wrong. We should be able to unite on that, and not argue so much about Obama's role that we lose track of that.

librechik

(30,674 posts)
46. by "he" I think you mean the Justice Department. And like I said, he voted for it
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 03:11 PM
Jun 2013

So even tho I'm sure he was only very dimly aware of this (LEGAL) program, he hadn't given it a lot of thought becasue he's been you know busy.

This abomination was well discussed at the DU when it happened. Many of us were aware that the programs continued and were screaming about it. Nobody cared.

Welcome to life in the future.

BlueCheese

(2,522 posts)
48. It certainly seems a lot of people, even in government, were unaware of it until now.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 03:17 PM
Jun 2013

I think it really is new news, though maybe not to the most diligent or most informed.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion. Cheers.

mercuryblues

(14,532 posts)
72. How could they have been unaware?
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 07:30 PM
Jun 2013

Anyone paying half attention would know. Anyone who thought Obama ended this program, didn't want to know that he didn't. If he had there would have been an uproar by the republicans at the time. Does anyone remember the noise coming from republicans about Obama ending this program? Faux Newz headline: Obama ends spying program placing Americans lives in danger, Obama soft on terrorism. I sure don't.


This was written in 2003

http://www.fepproject.org/commentaries/patriotact.html

A third example is the Department of Defense Total Information Awareness program that seeks to scan billions of personal electronic financial, medical, communication, education, housing and travel transactions, analyze them utilizing both computer algorithms and human analysis, and then flag suspicious activity.9 Americans innocent of any wrongdoing could be targeted by this system because it will collect information (and misinformation) on everyone, much of which can be misused. Furthermore, a planned identity tracking system could follow individuals wherever they go.

The Magistrate

(95,247 posts)
7. No, Sir, There Is Not
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 02:02 PM
Jun 2013

It simply feeds into the present effort to conjure up an aura of scandal and malfeasance around President Obama, and so is being treated as something new and terrible.

This is not a reasoned or disinterested dispute over proper extent or exercise of government power.

It is a political fight, in which one side aims to discredit the other, to hamstring and hobble it in the period before the next election, and to shift the focus from its own lacks and discredits. In this particular fight, one side is composed of tea-bagging traitors, the most un-American bunch to infest our political life since the Confederacy, and their Birch-ite corporate pay-masters; the other side is President Obama and his Administration. I am on one side of this, the only side a person who opposes the most reactionary elements of our political culture can be on in the present situation.

I support President Obama.

I hate and despise his enemies.

WovenGems

(776 posts)
12. Impeach
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 02:06 PM
Jun 2013

Have the Republicans started that call yet? Give it time to see if the issue sticks around. If it does then will start screaming.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
20. It won't happen because Republicans as well as Democrats review all this.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 02:11 PM
Jun 2013

They are all to blame for any over-reach. Personally, I couldn't care less about phone record metadata but that's just me.

The rest of it? Impeach the Patriot Act!

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

 

B2G

(9,766 posts)
17. Hugely different
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 02:08 PM
Jun 2013

PRISM connects directly to these companies back end data and allows them to pull emails, photos, videos, chats, etc.

Big, major difference.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
10. Nothing new. And, same old shit from the same old crowd that thinks a new POTUS=New Government.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 02:06 PM
Jun 2013

If you know what I mean.

BlueCheese

(2,522 posts)
45. Well, it certainly means a new executive branch.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 03:08 PM
Jun 2013

And the executive branch is the one that's running these surveillance programs.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
47. That's what I'm saying. The president sits in a chair, a role, surrounded by thousands of programs,
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 03:16 PM
Jun 2013

...millions of jobs, trillions of dollars of budget.

He/she takes the blame for everything but has really only a small amount of power.

Unless he's a part of the system, like Bush, and has a VP like Cheney who is total insider and all they do together is collectively strengthen the chock hold they have on us.

Nobody who understands US government thinks that a president can effect all that much change.

It's a group effort: the executive, judicial, and Congress, and us, and the Media, and now corporations.

The president has very limited power and he's certainly not able to bring about new governance.

That being said, Obama has done a pretty good job by comparison to his predecessors.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
13. Was there PRISM back then, or...
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 02:06 PM
Jun 2013

was it just called something else?

BTW, Yahoo Google and others for years had special spook phone lines set up for the warrant and supboena requests. I think it was up to hundreds a day.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
15. OK, my jet-lag addled brain just grasped that there are two separate programs here
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 02:07 PM
Jun 2013

Do I have this right? One is the FBI for phone calls, the other is the NSA for Internet traffic?

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
23. Well, the NSA has always been off the grid and done things yer normal agencies can't do...
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 02:15 PM
Jun 2013

even before 9-11, but the FBI has been restricted on what it can do domestically. And the FBI is supposed to keeps hands off international things, leaving that to the CIA.

I'm trying to remember some initials that go way back to the cold war, but it's all new now and with PATRIOT and some other stuff everyone's got a finger in "terrorism."

Be that as it may, they all figger that if they hold back anywhere and a bomb goes off, they will be guilty of not doing enough.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
21. Which Glen Greenwald is very adept at doing.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 02:12 PM
Jun 2013

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

riqster

(13,986 posts)
26. Sierra-squared, Delta-squared
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 02:28 PM
Jun 2013

Same goes for the chain yanking and outrage generation crap.

Hell, most of the players haven't even changed.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
31. Yes. "Driftnet" warrants aren't just for cities or areas, it's actually universal surveillance.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 02:43 PM
Jun 2013

Most of the informed comment at the time of the 2008 FISA Amendment that legalized driftnet warrants discussed how the NSA would be able to scoop up data on 300,000 people at a time. We're now learning, that was an underestimation by a factor of a thousand.

Everyone's calls are being intercepted, and everyone, it occurs to me after reading how the system works, is also being profiled. See, http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/06/07/1214479/-Is-Universal-Profiling-of-phone-users-in-America-the-next-revelation

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
58. Thin Thread went operational shortly after 9/11; warrantless data storage right after Bush came in.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 04:06 PM
Jun 2013

What NSA operates today is something closer to a gigantic TIA that involves real-time terrorism profiling every time a call is made.

 

MindPilot

(12,693 posts)
33. I think the major issue is that It is STLL happening.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 02:48 PM
Jun 2013

Obama has simply embraced the policies of the Bush administration.

BlueCheese

(2,522 posts)
35. As far as I know...
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 02:50 PM
Jun 2013

For the phone records:

This is the first confirmation that this dragnet has been continued under Obama. Also, I hadn't been aware they were simply ordering up all phone calls, as opposed to some broad subset of people.

Also, I think this is the first time that they're also scooping up phone records from entirely domestic calls, as opposed to international ones.

For the Internet data:

Information is still coming out, but as reported now, we're learning a lot about the scope of the program and which companies are involved.

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
49. A new document detailing the over broad extent of one program
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 03:17 PM
Jun 2013

and disclosure of a second program that is even more invasive. All coming under Obama.

Much was thought to be occurring, now we know. I don't think the question of whether this is "newly known" is at all important. Whatever has caused the public scrutiny is not nearly as important as the fact that it is finally being discussed.

AndyA

(16,993 posts)
55. I hadn't heard of PRISM before. (NSA and FBI retrieving data from internet servers)
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 03:45 PM
Jun 2013

Last night on MSNBC, Rachel Maddow said they can read your emails, know what sites you visit, even get personal information such as logins and more.

Suspected in the past, but I hadn't heard it verified until now.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
59. PRISM operates off the surveillance backbone created by the 1995 CALEA Act that mandated the telcos
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 04:11 PM
Jun 2013

and later the ISPs all install "interception" equipment. Every major carrier in the country has recorders and/or signal diverters installed, and have for a long time.

AndyA

(16,993 posts)
70. No, the major carriers say they have nothing installed to provide this data to the government
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 07:03 PM
Jun 2013

They have all announced that they require the proper paperwork, signed by a judge to provide information.

This is something the NSA and/or FBI has installed on the servers, apparently without the knowledge of the internet companies.

It was reported on MSNBC last night.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
71. Every telco must have CALEA-compliant switching equipment by law. Just Google that.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 07:14 PM
Jun 2013

The telco's and ISPs are fully aware of that fact because they were responsible for installing the devices acoording to a timeltable laid down in the 1995 Act, and were then compensated out of a $100 million federal fund. They also get paid for operating the equipment. It's no secret.

AndyA

(16,993 posts)
73. This isn't the same thing: PRISM is not CALEA
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 09:12 PM
Jun 2013
The other tech companies named in the reports have also denied having knowledge of PRISM or giving the government direct access to their servers.


http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/07/technology/security/page-zuckerberg-spying/index.html
 

bunnies

(15,859 posts)
57. Nope.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 03:56 PM
Jun 2013

Its just old news dragged out to cause a mass hair-lighting ceremony. And it seems to have worked brilliantly, unfortunately. This is 100% attempted voter suppression at its finest. The RW is masterful at this.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
60. I wish you were right that this were just partisan politics rather than the reality hitting people
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 04:13 PM
Jun 2013

that we now live in a universal surveillance state. You're right - most people just haven't been paying attention to that fact until now.

 

bunnies

(15,859 posts)
61. Its quite the thing to witness, really.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 04:36 PM
Jun 2013

Did so many people at DU really not know this was going on? My reaction to this story was one of "meh, ssdd". Its been a loooong time since I thought email & phone call records were private.

Truth is... if the gov't wants to know all about someone its as easy as checking facebook. Seems like 90% of its users are willing to share everything on their own. Their friends, political leanings, where they are, where theyve been, what they had for breakfast, etc, etc., etc. Its a hell of a lot more informative than telephone meta-data. Imagine if the government were tracking people the way facebook does? Heads would explode.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
62. Yes, a lot of people know and care more about Hillary's hair than about Libya and Syria, and more
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 04:55 PM
Jun 2013

about Obama's exercise routine than . . . well, you get it.

Google, Facebook, Amazon, Your Creditscore.com all are part of the NSA database. We all have a series of numbers associated with us that, together, as run through the NSA's own algorithms and those used by its customer agencies within the IC, altogether this creates a real-time profile and predictive score of our intentions and potentials in a dozen different scales. It determines the jobs we're eligible for, what areas we can access, how we can travel . . . none of this should be a surprise to any conscious person in America. But, most choose to be ruled by distraction and to cope by avoidance behaviors, like staring at their phones large parts of the day.

Greetings e-citizen #. Feels good to rant.

 

bunnies

(15,859 posts)
66. Oh, but it looks so much better longer.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 05:13 PM
Jun 2013
I couldnt agree more with everything you said. Technology was sure to (eventually) bite us in the ass. And theres no way to put that genie back in the bottle now. Its all completely entrenched in every single thing we do. And as technology advances the government will simply get better at hiding it. Thats partly why I cant bring myself to be outraged over it. I really dont think theres a damn thing anyone can do about it. Maybe its pessimism, but I feel its also truth. Too many people are too busy watching snooki & ranting on facebook to even begin to contemplate the big picture. Too busy, too stupid, too lazy, whatever. The end result will always be the same.

They might as well just microchip us all and get it over with. We pretty much are already anyway.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
68. Wow, that was a stunningly pathetic attempt at a yawn.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 05:28 PM
Jun 2013

By that logic, what was new about slavery during Lincoln's term? Why have a big hissy fit about it then?


I find these threads fascinating, because they expose the utter hypocrisy of the Third Way and the moral bankruptcy underlying its shifting positions on fundamental issues like Constitutional protections, depending on which party is in power.

I think we are witnessing something really important here. The escalating assaults on the fundamental rights of American citizens, and the increasingly absurd and vicious defense of them, are showing Americans at long last how truly ruthless and malignant the usurpers of our government, the Third Way and their corporate Republican counterparts, really are.

Summer Hathaway

(2,770 posts)
75. Nope.
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 02:23 AM
Jun 2013

It's just that the DU Hair-on-Fire Brigade (TM) haven't had a good chunk o' meat to chew on since Obama took it upon himself to declare May 1st "Loyalty Day".

 

dkf

(37,305 posts)
76. Did you know the DNI found that the NSA had violated the constitution....
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 03:58 AM
Jun 2013

But the administration is using "state secrets" to keep these cases out of the courts?

That's new to me.

Last year, a congressional investigation revealed documents from the office of the Director of National Intelligence showing that NSA surveillance had violated the Constitution "on at least one occasion." But in cases such as Clapper v. Amnesty and Jewel v. NSA, the government has repeatedly asserted its "state secrets" privilege, blocking the lawsuits and thus preventing a constitutional ruling.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/7/4406800/editorial-nsa-surveillance-is-obamas-transparency-problem

liberalmuse

(18,672 posts)
77. And THIS is why you don't pass a bunch of shit that undermines democracy.
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 05:18 AM
Jun 2013

Because maybe the other side will take full advantage of it. I just didn't think it would be "our" side. I'm still not okay with domestic spying, no matter who is in charge of it.

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