If you can't trust your government, we're going to have some problems

[B2G]

I totally agree Mr. President.

Now what are you proposing to do about it?

[Autumn]

1. We have been having "some problems" for quite a while now.

How about some fucking change.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. We're not supposed to "trust" our govenment in a democracy.

Holding public servants accountable is an essential part of democracy.

[Autumn]

15. We are not allowed to hold public servants accountable. I learned that

when the last administration got a free pass and a continuation of their policies.

[LWolf]

26. Yes. nt

[PsychoBunny]

52. That is what I learned in school. Don't trust your government but

control it. That is why we have to be politically aware. AND VOTE.

[Laelth]

76. Welcome to DU. n/t

-Laelth

[kelly1mm]

2. When I herd the President say that I was like "Well then we have problems!" nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

3. Sounds like a threat to me. n/t

[B2G]

4. Agree. That statement really surprised me.

[BlueCheese]

5. That's not the actual quote.

While I strongly disagree with the surveillance programs, we should quote Obama accurately:

"That's not to suggest that you just say, trust me; we’re doing the right thing; we know who the bad guys are. And the reason that's not how it works is because we’ve got congressional oversight and judicial oversight. And if people can't trust not only the executive branch but also don't trust Congress and don't trust federal judges to make sure that we’re abiding by the Constitution, due process and rule of law, then we’re going to have some problems here."

[B2G]

7. Same meaning, more words.

[MineralMan]

14. No. Not the same meaning.

Not at all. You distorted what was said. Use the whole quote or indicate that you are not doing so, please.

[okaawhatever]

73. I agree with you. She wanted to get a lot of attention so she didn't bother to quote accurately.

What the President was saying was not, if you don't trust the gov't. What he said was if you don't trust that all three branches could review something and you still don't think it's okay. THEN we have a problem. The constitution gives us three branches of government for a check and balance system. None of the branches right now have a problem with what's being done. I'm much more concerned with the earlier 4A ruling.

[Autumn]

42. The way I see it is the executive branch,

Congress and federal judges , that's government. So you condensed it. No big deal I heard what he said.

[MineralMan]

10. Thank you.

[Life Long Dem]

13. +1

[uponit7771]

20. Thx for this, I figured it wasn't an accurate quote but near

[Dreamer Tatum]

22. It is funny to me how vaunted Congress suddenly is

when every other day of the week people curse the Republican House.

Yeah, put me down as not trust any of the fuckers.

[jeff47]

75. Actually, for something like this the current Congress is great

If you're concerned about Excecutive branch overreach, you really want an insanely anti-president Congress looking for any way to constrain the executive branch.

The problem is we'd also like a Congress that can pass laws and budgets.

[KoKo]

46. Obama often says things that almost sound like he's warning us...

that it's not "Him" as President....but the "System" that is the problem.

That's how I read this. There's often a better more "Presidential Speak" way he could frame a statement...but, it comes out with an underlying truth that can be chilling.

[markiv]

6. I used to think the government didnt listen to people like me

i guess i was wrong

[Laelth]

74. Nice. +1 n/t

-Laelth

[tridim]

8. Beat the Republicans/Teabaggers in 2014, for starters.

[MineralMan]

11. That is a distortion of what President Obama said.

Please don't do that. At least indicate that a bunch of what he said was left out. Thanks.

As was pointed out above, here is the actual quote, in its entirety:

"That's not to suggest that you just say, trust me; we’re doing the right thing; we know who the bad guys are. And the reason that's not how it works is because we’ve got congressional oversight and judicial oversight. And if people can't trust not only the executive branch but also don't trust Congress and don't trust federal judges to make sure that we’re abiding by the Constitution, due process and rule of law, then we’re going to have some problems here."

[B2G]

12. Sorry, didn't have the full quote handy

but it's hardly taking what he said out of context.

[MineralMan]

17. It is precisely taking it out of context.

If you don't have the whole quote, then don't quote the President. That's my advice.

What you said the President said, in quotes, was not what the President said. That's just bad form.

[B2G]

19. Perhaps you can explain to me what he meant by the full quote

Since that was the point of this thread.

[MineralMan]

24. No. I will not do that for you.

You altered the President's words to make some point or another. That's just wrong. I'm not addressing the content. I'm addressing your distortion of his words and then putting your own distortion in quotes as if he said just what you quoted. He did not say what you quoted. We really need to have some integrity with our posts on DU. If you're going to quote the President, please do him the courtesy of using his works, rather than what you think he meant.

I'm not the only one saying this, either. You misquoted the President. Please don't do that.

[B2G]

27. You are spliting hairs

But I will go back and remove the quotes for your benefit.

But the message remains the same.

What kind of 'problems' is he referring to?

[MineralMan]

32. I'm splitting nothing.

The "problems" he's talking about are problems of trust. That's clear, if you read the whole thing. It's not a threat. The more words you remove from what he said, the more different what you say he said and what he actually said.

The President of The United States deserves to have his words quoted accurately and completely. It is that simple.

[JaneyVee]

38. What kind of problems? How about the fact that freedom is law & order.

Yes, America will have problems without an executive and judicial branch.

[rhett o rick]

60. So you dont like the way the message was provided in the OP. Why dont you correct the message

instead of complaining about the messenger? I read the complete quote and I believe the president basically said that we should trust the government and if you cant, then we have a problem. Everything he said in his actual quote could have been said by Bush prior to 2008 and I hope you would have called bullshit then. If I got this wrong, please straighten it out.

[MineralMan]

62. I did correct it. So did someone else.

I don't repeat everything in every post. You'll have to read the whole thread.

[rhett o rick]

63. Providing the actual quote in all it's rhetorical elegance doesnt help us figure out what it means.

I believe it means we should trust the government. If I am wrong, tell me how.

[MineralMan]

65. My objection is limited to the altered quotation.

The full quotation is easy enough to understand. You seem to have gotten the gist of it.

[rhett o rick]

66. Then we agree that the quote is easily understood and he was telling us to trust the government. nm

[MineralMan]

67. We agree that the OP misquoted the President.

[rhett o rick]

68. The OP accurately generalized what the President said. Why dont you address

the question, do you agree we should trust our government(?), instead of criticizing the way the OP was written? Distraction?

[MineralMan]

69. I think we should look at what actually happened

with those cell phone logs and how they were used, and then draw conclusions from that. As for trusting the government, I only trust people I know personally, and not all of them. The way those cell phone logs were used was legal, and did not compromise anyone's privacy at all who wasn't communicating with the targets the NSA was looking for. I understand what they were doing with that data, and it's OK with me. There has been much misunderstanding of what this is about.

But, I'm disturbed when someone puts something in quotes that is not the actual words the person said. I'm sort of a stickler about that. When you use quotation marks, what is between them is supposed to be the actual words that were used. When it is the President who spoke them, it becomes even more important that the actual words be used if you're going to use those quotation marks. It's a matter of some sort of respect for accuracy.

You might not share my concern with such things. That's not my concern, frankly. I shared my concern in the thread. I will do the same thing if I notice such a thing anytime. That's my privilege as a DU member. I'm sure you'll understand.

[rhett o rick]

70. I hadnt noticed that an earlier version had the words in quotes. That was wrong and I understand

your consternation.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I believe the jest of the actual quote was as the OP stated. And I object that we should ever trust our government. just sayin.

[B2G]

71. and i removed the quotes almost immediately

I used quotes so no one would think those were my words.

This horse is turning to pulp. I'm done.

[MineralMan]

72. That was my only objection to the post, so I said something.

Like another DUer, I also provided the complete quote. The OP removed the quotation marks.

[TheKentuckian]

79. If there is no content based difference in the summation and the quote then what is the uproar?

Did they change the holy script or something?

Does anyone trust Congress? Isn't the question absurd on it's face? It would be crazy for anyone to say they do.

Who trusts the Reagan, Bush, and Bush stacked courts? Particularly the Supreme Court?

So even if you trust the Executive just fine you can bet your ass that you will not trust some future occupant and that you are relying on faith because the other two are fundamentally incapable of providing the required oversight and our form of government and literally every bit of history council against such power, AT ALL but especially without check.

Truly without check since the apology/argument has morphed from denial to denial of any other possibility.

To sum it all up no shit we have some problems, Mr. President. What is the point of your statement? Are you actually trying to imply otherwise?

[KoKo]

50. He should define "Bad Guys." His audience isn't children.

I get tired of him using that Cheney/Rumsfeld speak. "Bad Guys" ....it's disgustingly juvenile.

[MineralMan]

54. You know, I don't really care. I care that someone

misquoted him. I find that to be bad form. Putting a paraphrase in quotation marks is bush league.

[premium]

16. I almost spit my coffee out when he said that.

Then I started doing this

[tridim]

30. You spit your coffee out when he said what? The deliberate misquote in the OP?

Thanks again Dr. Premium. Good work today!!!!11

[premium]

45. This is what I was laughing about.

That's not to suggest that you just say, trust me; we’re doing the right thing; we know who the bad guys are. And the reason that's not how it works is because we’ve got congressional oversight and judicial oversight. And if people can't trust not only the executive branch but also don't trust Congress and don't trust federal judges to make sure that we’re abiding by the Constitution, due process and rule of law, then we’re going to have some problems here.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/06/07/1214491/-President-Obama-s-statement-on-ACA-and-answering-question-on-NSA-in-San-Jose-CA

Whether you like it or not, and I really don't give a damn, I don't believe a word concerning this issue coming from the govt.

BTW, thanks for the title, Dr., I'm honored.

[uponit7771]

18. lol...for some reason I feel he didn't say that but point taken. Our government sholdn't be

...asking use to "trust them"

[closeupready]

21. Yep absolutely. Civil society requires cooperation from civilians.

Failing that, you've either got anarchy or martial law.

[B2G]

23. You left out tyranny

[closeupready]

37. Right, sorry about that.

[JaneyVee]

25. THIS is the problem with our society, complexity and nuance is shunned.

That wasn't even close to what he said.

[B2G]

29. What nuances did you take from his statement?

[MindPilot]

44. I notice that you are not getting an answer

I think the nuance is that we are supposed to be OK with wholesale surveillance because:

a) Obama is a Democrat

b) If you have any questions, see "a".

[Life Long Dem]

28. Link please?

Oh never mind, I got it.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3028582/posts?page=90

[B2G]

31. Nice. Now I'm a freeper for listening to his speech.

[Life Long Dem]

34. Funny how your quote is wrong, yet exactly like freepervilles post

[JaneyVee]

36. Ouch. That's no coincidence.

[MineralMan]

40. It may not have come from FR. The altered quote comes from

washingtonexaminer.com, another right wing source:

http://washingtonexaminer.com/obama-if-you-cant-trust-government-were-going-to-have-some-problems/article/2531400

Either way...it sucks.

[Life Long Dem]

53. True

"another right wing source"

[MindPilot]

48. Is it possible just this once

that FR got it right?

I know it's hard to admit, but it is far more likely than PBO suddenly becoming some kind of champion of individual freedom.

[MineralMan]

56. No. They just copied and pasted a misquote from

washingtonexaminer.com. They're not right. Those are not the President's words. He didn't even use the word "government." It is a paraphrase of what he said. It does not belong in quotes.

[MindPilot]

59. Same meaning fewer words.

The OP and WP and Freep used the word "government" whereas the president listed large components of government instead of the actual word government. Same thing; doesn't change the meaning of what was said.

The quotes were a stylistic mistake.

[KoKo]

64. Agree...this is just a Message Board and it was this posters reaction.

Anyone could have popped off a post after hearing that speech with a reaction and they shouldn't be tarred with being a Freeper unless they linked to a known Freeper site.

The exact quote was posted here in the thread...but, to go after poster for their reaction is really a bit OTT for a Message Board where reactions are constant and not all are linked or equally attacked for reactions.

[tridim]

33. Yep

It's becoming clearer by the minute.

[MineralMan]

35. Damn. I should have done that search.

Now, I'm even more disappointed that a DUer misquoted the President. I won't say that it was copied and pasted from that site, but it's exactly what the title was. Hmph.

ETA: It turns out that the erroneous quote originates with the Washington Examiner, another right-wing source. Either way, it's not a nice thing to do.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/obama-if-you-cant-trust-government-were-going-to-have-some-problems/article/2531400

[B2G]

47. Yes, I've been hanging out at freeperville

because that's the only place that knows the 'government' consists of the 3 branches referenced in the actual quote.

My god, it's like Wonderland around here.

[MineralMan]

51. I have no idea, nor did I say, where you hang out.

Your "quote" was identical with the one from washingtonexaminer.com that was used on Free Republic. That does not mean that you copied it from either place, nor would I suggest that, since I have no idea who you are or where you go.

The "quote" is still wrong, and is still a distortion of what the President said. It is, in fact, a paraphrase, not a quotation, since you substituted a word into it that was not even spoken by the President.

I realize that you are not a journalist, but accuracy in quotations is still important. The writer at washingtonexaminer.com isn't a journalist, either, or he wouldn't have created a fake "quote." But that's no surprise, really. It's a right-wing source.

You're feeling angry at me right now. I can live with that. You misquoted the President of The United States, and got caught doing it. That's kind of embarrassing. I understand.

[B2G]

57. I have no doubt the NSA could get to the bottom of this

I have already admitted it wasn't a direct quote and altered my OP.

But it's apparent you're far more comfortable dealing with that rather than the question of what he's planning to do about this obvious breach of trust.

Do have a wonderful day.

[Politicalboi]

39. Obama needs to go back

To go forward. But he should have done that day one before he continued Bush's policies. Investigate 9/11, War crimes, and money laundering, and be prepared to put Bush, Cheney, Rumsfailed, and Condi in jail.

[Octafish]

41. Gee. Without Cass Sunstein around, I don't know what to think.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2010/10/government-nanny-censoring-conspiracy-theories-is-also-responsible-for-letting-bush-era-torture-and-spying-conspiracies-go-unpunished.html

[AndyA]

43. It's OK, America. Really. Nothing to be concerned about.

Your government will fix you it right up!

[Puzzledtraveller]

49. The train is going off the rails

There is a lot more to come out.

[bowens43]

55. We do have a problem and the president is making it worse.

trust the government? not going to happen any time soon

[Liberal In Texas]

58. I think you need to put up what the President actually said

or deleted this thread.

It's misleading.

[B2G]

82. Let me think about it...

No.

[Nimajneb Nilknarf]

61. The late Mr. Reagan got one thing right.

"Trust, but verify."

[Laelth]

77. k&r just for the petty abuse B2G took in this thread.

It was, I think, a little over the top. It was also distracting and lacked substance. However, if you needed a course in academic writing and sourcing ethics, then you came to the right thread.

-Laelth

[woo me with science]

81. +1 Distraction

appears to have been the intent.

[treestar]

78. We have to, at some point

How could we have time to monitor all of the bureaucracies daily?

There is oversight by elected Representatives.

[Bluenorthwest]

80. 6% think Congress is doing a good job, 94% are correct that they are not.

That is an aspect that needs to be addressed. That fact is the fault of those in the Congress. They do not even do their jobs. They do not maintain the public trust.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022962429