I'm shocked! I'm outraged! I can't believe the Patriot Act has been... enacted!?

[fried eggs]

I get the outrage. I hate spying. I want it to stop. But the posts expressing shock and surprise seem a little disingenuous to me. We've known about this for a long long time and we also know that Congress never overturned the Patriot Act.

Those who are serious about wanting change can discuss where to go from here (as in, how to force Congress to repeal it), but those who are making "I'm done with Obama!!!" posts will probably end up on my ignore list because you're clearly just using this as an opportunity to troll.

[The Magistrate]

1. Hear Hear, Sir!

This is not a reasoned or disinterested dispute over proper extent or exercise of government power.

It is a political fight, in which one side aims to discredit the other, to hamstring and hobble it in the period before the next election, and to shift the focus from its own lacks and discredits. In this particular fight, one side is composed of tea-bagging traitors, the most un-American bunch to infest our political life since the Confederacy, and their Birch-ite corporate pay-masters; the other side is President Obama and his Administration. I am on one side of this, the only side a person who opposes the most reactionary elements of our political culture can be on in the present situation.

I support President Obama.

I hate and despise his enemies.

[fried eggs]

40. An important point

They want us to step back and let the teabaggers dominate next year. First, we need to educate Congress and our fellow Americans on why the Patriot Act is not good for the nation. When the public changes its mind, then congress will follow. Until then, I'm not a one issue voter. I don't plan to turn over my rights over to teabaggers while the spying continues. Things would only get worse if teabaggers took over the house and senate.

[JoePhilly]

2. The perpetually outraged will have moved on to a new outrage topic

in a week or so.

They haven't freaked out about how President Obama is, at any second, about to kill Social Security for about 4 or 5 weeks now, and that's a longer time between Social Security freak outs than usual.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

10. In the mean time they will be outraged at you for saying that.

[JoePhilly]

14. Which makes it a win win!

[HeroInAHalfShell]

3. your concern is noted.

[MineralMan]

4. That's pretty funny, really.

If you think about it a little.

[JoePhilly]

16. Noted by the Government!!!!

I almost missed that!!

[Cha]

5. "Opportunity to troll"..

say it ain't so! lol

Elect members of Congress who would repeal it! What a concept.. so much easier to take cheap ignorant pot shots at the President on the internet.

[uponit7771]

6. WRONG WRONG WRONG!!! Patriot Act authorized bake sales not data collection /sarcasm < this is needed

[WinkyDink]

7. Maybe we like the fantasy that a Democratic President is better.

[uponit7771]

8. He is better, facts matter...this president didn't break the law just not doing what a lot of

...progressive think is the ultimate right thing to do.

This has been going on since 2006, the level of response is disjointed from reality

[mercuryblues]

17. try 2001

this was enacted with the patriot act.

http://www.fepproject.org/commentaries/patriotactupdate.html

Bush's signing statement saying he doesn't need a warrant to open mail

http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2003508676_mail04.html

WASHINGTON — President Bush quietly has claimed sweeping new powers to open Americans' mail without a judge's warrant.

Bush asserted the new authority Dec. 20 after signing legislation that overhauls some postal regulations. He then issued a "signing statement" that declared his right to open mail under emergency conditions, contrary to existing law and contradicting the bill he had just signed, according to experts who have reviewed it.


What will Greenwald's next revelation be?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

18. Did you know the new NSA facility is in Utah?

Can you imagine the whole "Elder Mittens" "USA total Christian to Mormon conversion" conspiracy causing the fundies heads to explode?

[Chakaconcarne]

9. Yes, I totally agree...

While I get the publicity, I don't get the reaction coming from the people here. This was already full steam ahead when Obama came in. Not like he had much control over it. IF it's going to come out, better now than closer to midterms.

I do wonder why it's getting so much publicity.

I don't frequent tons of conservative boards, but I'm not really hearing as much complaint from that side. Could be wrong.

[pnwmom]

12. I bet the leaker is a Bush holdover who knew this wouldn't hurt any Rethug

who voted for it, but is trying to hurt Obama via his base.

And that it's not a coincidence this is occurring now, in the midst of the other fake "scandals" that are designed to keep Obama from accomplishing anything for the rest of his term.

[GoneFishin]

30. Of course the conservative base isn't outraged. Sean Hannity didn't tell them they should be

outraged and they lack the critical thinking to foresee the bad direction this could lead. They routinely ignore or rewrite history. And they routinely vote against their own best interests.

Faux News and the Republican leadership on the whole aren't going to object, it will be their finest wet dream to pick up where Obama leaves off, and "enhance" the system the next time they get power again. It is the same with the drone program and other right-wing programs. They have no intention of slowing any of those programs down.

So instead they beat dead horses like Benghazi.

[boilerbabe]

11. so, in other words, don't continue to complain?!

i find it so damn bizarre that adoration for a politician trumps all.

[pnwmom]

15. Complain to your Congress people who passed this law.

And make sure you have the facts before you start complaining about things that aren't true.

[totodeinhere]

23. May I complain to the person who signed the extension of the law? n/t

[pnwmom]

26. Sure. But it might be a good idea to have the facts first.

And there is already reason to believe that much of this is a hoax.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

13. I'm shocked and surprised that some here are shocked and surprised that

Many are STILL against the unconstitutional blanket spying of all Americans even when a dem is president.

Strange...

[randome]

19. This has been like red meat to the 'outragers'.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[FiveGoodMen]

27. What choice did we have?

The question is not rhetorical.

[BumRushDaShow]

21. +infinity

Congress must be pushed by the people to REPEAL this law. The people have had to been made angry enough to put down the bag of Cheetos, turn off "Real L.A. Housewives", and demand their representatives stop renewing these laws.

[Apophis]

22. Republican president, Democrat president...neither care about my privacy.

What's one to do?

[existentialist]

24. Disappointed with Obama, but not outraged

I don't like what the Obama Administration appears to have done with the tools provided him by the Patriot Act, but I can't say I'm outraged.

I was outraged by its enactment, and by the Bush Administration.

I'm not thrilled with Obama, but my deepest anger is with the Republican Congress.

It is, at any rate that Congress that must be changed if the Patriot aCt is to be repealed--or even improved.

Ranting against the Obama Administration would only be an exercise in misdirected outrage that would improve nothing, and make it more difficult to improve things.

To that extent I agree with the original post here--but I'm still less than thrilled with Obama's actions with regard to domestic spying.

Of course then again, I'm less than thrilled with his failure to stand up to Republicans on numerous points--but if he is going to do that he needs support rather than outrage against him.

On many points I support him as strongly as I can, and I can't think of a single point on which I would prefer a Republican--any Republican--to be President.

[DallasNE]

25. Exactly

The Patriot Act was extended just a few months ago with little fan fare. The time for outrage was a few months ago when it could have mattered. And that leads to why, all of the sudden, are we seeing a rash of leaks purporting to show scandal when wrongdoing is never uncovered. It has all of the earmarks of Jim DeMint's plan to have Congress not legislate and expose divisions in the Republican ranks and instead focus on Obama scandals. The pattern is clear, first comes a leak with sensational implications and hot debate on Sunday talk followed by the truth showing nothing out of the ordinary has taken place. So far the worst scandal to surface was the doctored emails released by the Republicans on Benghazi to make the Whitehouse look culpable and that has gotten scan attention. Jonathan Karl still has his job. Anybody that can't see through what is going on needs to open their eyes and take a detached look. This is just more of Jim DeMint's plan being carried out and so far he is getting away with it with the help of the media.

[zeemike]

28. Well we were outraged about it then.

I know I was here then....and we did bitch...some or us that could protested in our "free speech zones" as best we could...but it was all blown off....with the promise of HOPE and TRANSPARENCY that came with Obama and we believed in him....or at least I did.

But the moment the re election was over we see the new Obama..right out of the gate it was Chained CPI and now we find out that we are in a massive surveillance state....WTF did you think we would do but be bitter about being sold hope to find out it was no hope?

Are we supposed to STFU now because we failed to stop it then?...Because it might hurt Obama?...he is not running again...we can't hurt him....I am sure when he is through he will build a nice library and Bush will come to the opening, and he may have a gig like Clinton and Bush did in Haiti to help rehabilitate the Bush brand...Jeb might have a chance after all.

You want to know how to stop this?....well there is only one way I know....a massive march on DC with people prepared to stay and be beaten and thrown into jail...and that is the only way this will end...
But no, most will take the easy way, which is to pretend this theater they put on for us is real, and will learn to love Big Brother....and we will divide ourselves into defenders and critics of Obama...and divided we will fall.

[Iliyah]

33. Get it together, and I'll join

you, heck my grandparents might too. They marched with Martin Luther King.

[zeemike]

41. I wish I could.

But I do not have the health, wealth, or leadership qualities to pull it off...

[GoneFishin]

34. Many people are here to convince you that you are over reacting. They are wrong.

I don't know if they are naive. I don't know what their motives are. It is clear though that for some, the line for what is reasonable can be slowly moved, over and over and over again and they will never get the wake-up call. They will be lead where they are lead. It requires no decisive action, no accommodation of uncomfortable truths, just tiny movements each time that line is redrawn, and everything is A-Ok.

[SummerSnow]

29. haha

[LWolf]

31. Are you saying that

people who hold Obama accountable are trolls?

[clydefrand]

32. telephone books are all over this country

so why is everyone so upset because the government is recording their phone numbers. I don't give a heck that they might have ours. I am not a part of a terrorist pack. If everyone wants to keep their numbers hidden, then they had better take their numbers off the book! I will be so glad when those nuts who call me every summer about interest on my credit cards. I want them to know that I don't need calls from them. Now maybe if those numbers were recorded, I would love it. I rarely use the phone. Now what are they doing about the cell phones? Are they getting their numbers too? Lordy, how many thousands of tons of paper are they using for this?

[okaawhatever]

35. There has been a common theme with the "scandals" lately. They mostly have been older events served

up like the end of the world via the press. C'mon, the ap stuff we know about because the justice dept sent them a letter hello, rosen and fox happened back in 2011 and everyone knew about it then. Ditto the irs. The investigation had been underway for some time and everyone knew it. This law has been around since 2007. Some say they couldn't imagine the scope of it, but i'm not so sure. One of the companies that sells data minimg software for intelligence purposes has advertised who their customers were. What the software does, etc. Sorry, the government isn't running a secret spying operation through a super secret court to listen in on millions of phone calls by Americans. It isn't perfect, but all three branches of government have reviewed it so i'm not sure I could stop it if I wanted to. I think we need to review it and elect officials who will do what we're comfortable with.

[Cali_Democrat]

37. Good point. n/t

[SmittynMo]

36. Look, these politicians are not fools.....

At election time, politicians only tell you what they want you to hear, to win. I never heard anything about the NSA around election time, or this crap probably would have been brought up. They do what they have to to win elections. Once in there, you will see good and bad, and hope the good outweighs the bad.

Yeah, this is invasion of privacy. We bitched then, and we're bitching now. Does it need to stop? Hell yes.

I voted for Obama both times. Did I think he would change the world? No. As a matter of fact, the only good thing I've seen from him is the coverage of preexisting conditions. That will benefit EVERYONE. I'm sure there are others, but I don't want arguments.

Are we better off with Obama? I'd say yes. Especially considering how bad it would have been with McCain, or Rmoney running the show. I certainly haven't seen much from Obama in the second term.

As with anything else in politics, once this slips through the cracks, which it did in 2001, they just slide it under the rug. 6 months from now, no one remembers, until it becomes an issue again. It sucks, but that's the way it is. Ignore it long enough, and MAYBE it might go away? We need to act now, before this issue becomes passive again.

All I can say for now, is they have access to know EVERYTHING about you, if they want to. Anytime you use electronic communication, it's being recorded. So don't use your phone, PC, TV, or even drive your car. Big brother could be watching you very closely. Pretty damn sad, isn't it?

[rug]

38. There is a difference between living with a shit statute and taking it to bed.

[Honeycombe8]

39. I think a lot of people forgot about the law. Or at least didn't think it was being used.

I hadn't given it much thought in recent years. Just a passing wondering occasionally. Now, I know. It is being used....only with court orders, unlike before, so there is an improvement.

I hear people on tv talkinga bout the cure might be to install better safeguards and protections for the program. Maybe that's the answer. So that it doesn't matter WHO is in charge of it...protections that prevent them from using information to blackmail people or whatever.

[marshall]

43. Obama apparently forgot too

That he used to be against it.

[Honeycombe8]

44. I'm sure he didn't. As he explained, when he got into office, he saw the results

and determined, based on the new knowledge he had, that it was worthwhile.

That's what we want in leaders: people who DO change their positions, when faced with new information. We don't want idealogues.

[Kath1]

42. Well-said.

Much better to work on repealing it than using it as an excuse to take cheap shots at Obama, a President the Right will do anything to bring down.