DU, it is this simple! Bush and Congress spying on us was HORRIBLE....

[Logical]

Obama continuing it without without ANY concern or suggested reduction is 100% ok!

Carry on!

[uponit7771]

1. It would be ok if it were true, fudr meme noted. Regards

[JoePhilly]

2. That's some serious nonsense.

Bush side stepped both the FISA courts and Congressional oversight. Obama has not.

Yet you claim "Obama continuing it without without ANY concern or suggested reduction is 100% ok".

By going through the FISA courts and including Congressional oversight, Obama has clearly shown greater "concern" over the extent of these programs than Bush did.

More faux outrage.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

9. Mother Jones reports judicial reviewers told the administration the program was unconstitutional.

Meanwhile, Intel Committee members Wyden and Udall having been trying to stop this. I doubt these senators and the FISA court are putting forth faux outrage.

BTW -- this was an exclusively domestic program. The FOREIGN Intelligence Surveillance Act does not make it legal.

[treestar]

22. Obama did cut back on it

You know, I came in with a healthy skepticism about these programs, my team evaluated them, we scrubbed them thoroughly, we actually expanded some of the oversight, increased some of the safe guards, but my assessment and my team's assessment was that they help us prevent terrorist attacks.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251310274

That post generally gives President Obama's side of the story, but note how many great American civil rights defenders of DU don't even want to hear all sides of the issue.

[cantbeserious]

29. Note How Many DU Participants That Are Outraged At The Continuing Erosion Of Privacy!

eom

[morningfog]

28. A warrant for everything under the sun is not a warrant.

And I know it is hard for you to recognize legitimate criticisms of Obama, but this is one.

[boilerbabe]

3. also : "and nobody complained or attended huge protests about it under Bush"

it was first complained about last week under Obama." Yeah we get it. it's hard to keep a straight face around here sometimes.

[Octafish]

4. What's even more HORRIBLE is that it didn't stop on Jan. 20, 2009.

Which is why I voted for the Democratic candidate for President.

[Logical]

5. I agree! n-t

[JaneyVee]

7. It appears he switched his position in July 2008 while still a candidate:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/02/us/politics/02fisa.html?_r=0

[randome]

12. Interesting find. Thanks.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Coyotl]

6. Illogical

[Logical]

8. How? n-t

[Nuclear Unicorn]

11. Obviously we're just going to have to elect another Republican to get people to see the light.

[Logical]

14. I am glad Obama won! But on the topic of spying on the American....

Public he as been a huge disappointment!

[Seeking Serenity]

10. Yay, my team!!

My team rocks! Boo-yah, boo-yah, boo-yah! My team's all that, your team sucks! My team's all that, your team sucks!

Public policy as elementary school playground. Lovely.

[ananda]

13. It's both and neither, here's why.

OK, look at the relative portrayal and media coverage of this issue with a Dem president as opposed to that of the Reep Bush.

For two months now the Reeps have been trying to lay a "scandal" on Obama, all a big fail so far ... until now. The violations of privacy rights are truly horrible, unconstitutional, and scandalous.

However, when all this started under Bush, it was portrayed and covered quite differently... all due to politics and partisanship.

Now then, when the executive branch co-opts or gains a power, such as this one, or other privacy violations, which Bush and his admin co-opted for the sake of the so-called "War on Terror," all future presidents tend to keep it. Bush and his admin pretty much skated free on it. They shouldn't have.

Now the problem runs deeper than this because of the Republican assault on voting rights through election fraud, gerrymandering, attacks on registration efforts, targeting minorities for the prison industry, targeting college students for address rights, voter ID laws, and so forth. Some call this the new Jim Crow. The reason they are doing this is that universal suffrage cannot be revoked. That's how Bush "won" both his presidential elections, and that is why Republicans have control of Congress now and are trying to mount campaigns of "scandal" against Obama, including this one, which is a true scandal.

So, where were they when all this started under Bush?

This is nothing if not political.

That is not to say that this issue is not more or other than political as well. It goes to the heart of George Orwell and the Big Brother meme, as well as what makes a society truly human and civil.

But there is serious politics in the way the rightwing media and officials portray it and cover it.

[markiv]

16. if the evidence is strong enough, the motive really doesnt matter

so many people fail to understand that

heavy partisan perception undermines credibility with independents, who determine every election

[ananda]

23. If that is so...

... then how will this perception of the Obama admin datamining
play with Independents?

My fear is that it might cause usually safe Dems to stay home
or vote for a third party candidate.

[markiv]

25. perception of the Obama admin?

does this answer your question? that hope and change were neither

you know what they say 'fool me once......you cant get fooled again'

[markiv]

15. It's different now

Obama is good, Bush is bad I trust Obama

and with good reason. Obama is donkey brand, donkey is my friend

Bush, is elephant brand, and I am afraid of elephant brand. Donkey brand protects me from elephant brand

Donkey is my friend, just like Tony the Tiger

[Nimajneb Nilknarf]

17. You trust Obama. Are you sure you will trust the next President?

Or the one after that, or the one after that?

[Seeking Serenity]

18. Ask your mom to get you Donkey-brand politicians.

They're GRRRRRRREAT!

[markiv]

20. i already have

and dont get me started on quisp vs quake, it's obvious that quisp is better

just like franken berry vs count chocula

[Logical]

19. Lol! n-t

[treestar]

21. Well yeah. If that's they way it is and nothing can be done about it

Then I'd rather Obama be spying on Republicans than for Jeb Bush to be spying on Democrats. If this is really true that way it's being played here, then we throw up our hands, democracy does not work, so let's at least be partisan for our own side.

[Matariki]

24. It's really pathetic isn't it?

There are threads (from predictable people) now denying that it's true. Once that's not possible they'll be defending the policy.

[Skittles]

27. it's the usual Groupies, and they are a joke

I don't think the thinking folk take them seriously anymore

[Matariki]

30. I think some of them are more than just groupies

but whatever. they're obvious anyway.

[Skittles]

31. well yes there's the professional Groupies

but they always overplay their hand and become jokes just like the swooners

[Skittles]

26. but you HAVE to like it!!! Else, er, IT'S PRESIDENT CHRISTIE!!!