General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsEdward Snowden is the NSA whistle-blower
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/edward-snowden-nsa-whistleblower-surveillanceSeries: Glenn Greenwald on security and liberty
Previous | Index
Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance
The individual responsible for one of the most significant leaks in US political history is Edward Snowden, a 29-year-old former technical assistant for the CIA and current employee of the defence contractor Booz Allen Hamilton. Snowden has been working at the National Security Agency for the last four years as an employee of various outside contractors, including Booz Allen and Dell.
The Guardian, after several days of interviews, is revealing his identity at his request. From the moment he decided to disclose numerous top-secret documents to the public, he was determined not to opt for the protection of anonymity. "I have no intention of hiding who I am because I know I have done nothing wrong," he said.
Snowden will go down in history as one of America's most consequential whistleblowers, alongside Daniel Ellsberg and Bradley Manning. He is responsible for handing over material from one of the world's most secretive organisations the NSA.
In a note accompanying the first set of documents he provided, he wrote: "I understand that I will be made to suffer for my actions," but "I will be satisfied if the federation of secret law, unequal pardon and irresistible executive powers that rule the world that I love are revealed even for an instant."
usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)Agreed, and I salute him for sticking to his principles, American principles, and I hope he has a powerful legal team on board to take these neo-fascists policies head-on!
I also believe that he is making a good move by going public with his identity right away as it will take away a lot of the leverage the state will have as trying to portray him as a traitor.
Edward Snowden: American Patriot
Your fellow Americans salute and support you
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)premium
(3,731 posts)The more govt. transparency, the better for citizens to judge what their govt. is doing on their behalf.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)Not sure if that will be effective, and I agree, that the Chinese are just as bad when it comes to surveillance of their citizens, and can be worse when it comes to prosecuting them... but I wonder if there is anywhere on earth where the governments are not spying on their citizens?
I would like to think that with our constitution, we have substantial grounds to change the way our government behaves when it does not conform with it.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Ironically, his days of freedom are likely over even if never arrested.
kenny blankenship
(15,689 posts)shortly, I think.
warrprayer
(4,734 posts)Those without honor do not recognize truth. They profit through the trading of falsehoods. They pay homage to whatever benefits them singularly, regardless of the suffering it may cause others. The honorable continuously seek information. They recognize truth when it is present, regardless of the costs and consequences associated with it. They
fight, suffer, and die to protect truth. Without honor, truth cannot exist. In the absence of truth, all suffer.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)he will become a hero. And he will have proven how dangerous this secretive government is. Not much different from those countries we have the gall to criticize.
RainDog
(28,784 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Gregorian
(23,867 posts)Thank you!
99Forever
(14,524 posts)... our President doesn't have the ethics, courage, and morals of Edward Snowden, we would be a much better society if he did.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)Nay
(12,051 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)It is sickeningly sweet. One thing it does not tell us (other than exactly what we are to think - the next Julian we have here) is just what documents did he leak? Where is there a list?
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)You're out of step, this should be the rinse cycle and you are on spin.
How about this simple test: if it sucks when bush was in charge, it sucks under Obama too.
treestar
(82,383 posts)either/or? People who don't like a power of the government reduce the government to "the current president" - all government functions continue.
But what did he leak exactly? This was supposedly all known.
And that does not change the fact this article tells you exactly what you are to think - how is that independent thinking? Talk about talking points. That articles is dripping with them.
7wo7rees
(5,128 posts)Citing source:
He left the CIA in 2009 in order to take his first job working for a private contractor that assigned him to a functioning NSA facility, stationed on a military base in Japan. It was then, he said, that he "watched as Obama advanced the very policies that I thought would be reined in", and as a result, "I got hardened."
treestar
(82,383 posts)What policies? He has no compunction about leaking CIA information, right?
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)nutjobs who may consider him an enemy.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"Snowden will go down in history as one of America's most consequential whistleblowers, alongside Daniel Ellsberg and Bradley Manning. He is responsible for handing over material from one of the world's most secretive organisations the NSA."
I mean, given that the program is not illegal, and it has been know about for years, the only thing new is that current information was leaked.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)"Nothing new here".
usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)conspiracy theory you got there.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"The massively unconstitutional spying program is about 'creating heros' fasinating"
...claim the program is "unconstitutional," but that's your opinion based on what you want to believe. The fact is that the program was conducted legally.
The government has been collecting information for decades. The question has always been whether or not those activities violate the Constitution, even when they are in compliance with existing laws.
Smith v. Maryland, 442 U.S. 735 (1979) - No warrant required for call metadata
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022966764
Meet the Carnivore system
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022972777
This is as good a time as any to have the debate. It's probably one of the best times.
Lawmakers Tear Into Obamas Surveillance Program, Pledge To Challenge It At Supreme Court
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022977943
Th1onein
(8,514 posts)killed an American. TARGETED an American citizen. You can legalize anything, but that doesn't make it right and just. And, when you LIE about it, and then threaten the whistleblowers that tell the truth about your "secret" program, it just shows guilty knowledge. Legal, my ass.
treestar
(82,383 posts)They knew they needed one without Julian's sexual charges or Bradley's violation of military code.
Nothing was even leaked here. It will be hilarious if he is not persecuted and they have to start exaggerating some misfortune in his life to be the "persecution."
cali
(114,904 posts)defending him no matter what as well as demonizing anyone who dares to criticize him, dearie.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Whatever comes out about Eddie.
I don't worship Obama. I just don't hate him so passionately and don't think he runs the entire government and world and is solely to blame for everything I may not like.
cali
(114,904 posts)and you have a history here that proves that. I don't have a history of simple minded worship or demonization.
emulatorloo
(44,131 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)I am the one asking substantive questions. I don't accept "hero worshipper."
What's hilarious is the upcoming persecution of Eddie.
And don't call me "honey," I am sure you can be alerted for that.
still_one
(92,229 posts)has nothing to do with this thread
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)without smear campaigns, we know that. I'm fine with Manning and Assange, never did believe the lies especially after seeing the CIA memo planning the smear campaign against Assange settling on 'getting him involved in a sex scandal' months earlier. We expected it. It didn't work. They might want to start trying something else, do what Bush did with War Criminals, give him a medal. That would probably de-hero him pretty quickly.
But when the smear campaigns begin, it only enhances the status of Whistle Blowers especially when what they have revealed is the truth.
So far the smear campaign says he is nuts, only more clinically defined, but that is the gist of it. You won't be disappointed, you'll be getting plenty of material to try to discredit him and distract from what he revealed. Same old story, it happened to Ellsberg also and a few other recent whistle-blowers who have now been proven to have been correct.
treestar
(82,383 posts)I knew it!
Right on time!
Response to ProSense (Reply #13)
Name removed Message auto-removed
kentuck
(111,104 posts)...it really should not be a big deal. But it is. Citizens at large do not accept it as legal and were not asked to vote on it or to approve it.
still_one
(92,229 posts)approved it.
The populous is responsible. They are responsible for bush, and those congress folks who voted for the patriot act.
kenny blankenship
(15,689 posts)usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)As his identity would have been exposed sooner or later, and the spin would have been to paint him as a traitor, hiding in the shadows.
Whereas now he can have fist bite at the apple of directing the narrative that will be told about him.
No doubt he will have to be very careful now, but at least he will have a chance of getting his side of the story out before they take him down.
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]
usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)That would be hard to do in solitary confinement, and being tortured with the prospect of life in prison or even execution at the hands of our National Security State.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Speaks volumes.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)And here I thought attaching oneself to reality, facts, & evidence was a progressive trait. Would you like me to delete my factual statement that I provided which included links to sources to? Maybe that will make you feel better?
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)some Democrats because liberals were cowed by the right into abandoning the word "liberal."
Your factual statement does not make me feel good or bad. I already knew the information.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Check out 1:48 for the explanation of the anarcho-syndicalist commune!
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)backwoodsbob
(6,001 posts)thank you Edward...you are a hero in my book
BenzoDia
(1,010 posts)Seems like a waste.
backwoodsbob
(6,001 posts)who we don't even know who it is comprised of...decide the legalities of spying....while kept secret from the public...we have a problem
cstanleytech
(26,299 posts)I am also realistic enough to admit that there are times when the government needs to keep some things secret but also they need to try an adhere to the constitution as much as possible given the issues they are dealing with and the FISA courts are the compromise put into place to allow it and so far SCOTUS hasnt ruled that the FISA courts are illegal nor has congress passed legislation to ban their usage.
backwoodsbob
(6,001 posts)how about adhere to the constitution period!
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Makes it legal to do exactly what we can't tell you we are doing. Blah dee blah blah.
BenzoDia
(1,010 posts)I'm not saying they're morally okay. Just that it is the law.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)Last edited Sun Jun 9, 2013, 03:45 PM - Edit history (1)
these programs when, to many, these programs are indefensible.
BenzoDia
(1,010 posts)Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)to be relevant.
As for my take, I find massive surveillance unnerving. I find that secret laws and that secrecy courts that regulate and oversee this surveillance undemocratic. I find that corporations, whose technology we rely on to live in this modern world, co-operating to spy on us undemocratic.
BenzoDia
(1,010 posts)This is way less scandalous then I thought it'd be.
Junkdrawer
(27,993 posts)Gregorian
(23,867 posts)I get such a good feeling from this. Revealing the weakness of the powerful is just like that scene where the curtain is pulled away from Oz, showing that he's just a little man.
I feel good right now. Like maybe hope never does really die.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)to Iceland and I hope Iceland protects him.
dkf
(37,305 posts)And to put the rest of his life up...it's a huge service he has done for us.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)There are several other people with the same name, so it's important to know which one is being discussed.
midnight
(26,624 posts)brentspeak
(18,290 posts)If the technology was available, they'd be sending these guys to hunt down Snowden:
timdog44
(1,388 posts)Edward Joseph Snowden[1] is a technical contractor and a whistleblower who released classified material on the United States National Security Agency's PRISM surveillance program.[2]
Personal life[edit]
In 2003, Edward Snowden enlisted in the United States Army. He was discharged after breaking both of his legs in a training accident. He then went to work as a security guard for a covert NSA facility at the University of Maryland. After that he went to the CIA, where he worked on IT security. In 2007 the CIA stationed him with diplomatic cover in Geneva, Switzerland, where he was responsible for maintaining computer network security. Leaving the CIA in 2009, he worked for a private contractor inside an NSA facility on a United States military base in Japan.[2]
At the time of his departure from the US in May 2013, he was working for defense contractor Booz Allen Hamilton inside of the NSA in Hawaii. He described his life as "very comfortable", living with his girlfriend and earning a salary of "roughly $200,000."[2] He arrived in Hong Kong and began living in a hotel room, where he provided an interview to The Guardian.[2]
The Chinese lost a valuable asset and the Muslim are calling him a Hero ....
Here are members or past member of "Boose" Allen
Jonathan Black - Director, Corporate Affairs, University of Oxford[17]
Rohit Bhagat - Global Chief Operating Officer, Barclays Global Investors[18]
Sir (Francis) Christopher Buchan Bland - Chairman of the Royal Shakespeare Company, and former Chairman of British Telecommunications PLC[19][20][21]
Chipper Boulas - Venture advisor in Paris, France and former Vice President of Corporate Strategy, eBay[citation needed]
Jonathan S. Bush - President, CEO, and Co-founder of athenaHealth[22][23]
Art Collins - Chairman and CEO, Medtronic, Inc.[24]
Tim Collins - Founder and Chief Executive of Ripplewood Holdings[25]
Edward C. Davies (Ted) - Managing Partner, Unisys Federal Systems[26][27]
Karen Fawcett - Director, Standard Chartered Bank Malaysia[28]
Richard Gay - Senior Vice President of Strategy and Business Operations for VH1 and CMT, MTV Networks[29][30]
Rhonda Germany - Vice President of Strategy and Business Development, Honeywell[31][32]
Patrick Gorman - Senior Vice President and Chief Information Security Officer (SVP/CISO), Bank of America[33]
Gerry Horkan - Vice President of Corporate Strategy, Yahoo! Inc.[34]
Paul Idzik - Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer, Barclays PLC[35][36]
Abigail Johnson - President of Fidelity Investments
Raymond J. Lane - General Partner at Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers; Chairman of the Board of Trustees at Carnegie Mellon University, former President and Chief Operating Officer of Oracle Corporation[37][38][39][40] and chairman of Hewlett-Packard[41][42]
Edward J. O'Hare - Chief Information Officer for the U.S. General Services Administration's's Federal Acquisition Service; former Assistant Commissioner, General Services Administration, and former VP at Dynanet[43][44]
Torsten Oltmanns - currently Global Marketing Director at Roland Berger Strategy Consultants and Assistant Prof. at University of Innsbruck[45][46]
Todd Y. Park - Co-founder and Chief Development Officer of Athena Health[22][47][48][49]
Mark DeSantis - Chief Executive Officer of ANGLE Technology Consulting and Management and former CEO and President of Formation3 LLC[50][51]
Stan Scoggins - Vice President of Worldwide Digital Assets, Universal Studios[52][53]
Owen Nieberg - Chief Operating Officer, All About Braces
Deven Sharma - President, Standard & Poor's and VP for global strategy at The McGraw-Hill Companies[54][55]
Michael Wolf - Former president and COO of MTV Networks[56][57]
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)wow -- what a piece of work this one is.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)should by now we know what to expect whenever a hero takes the risk he has taken to inform the people of information they have a right to have.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)Your assertion that Muslims love him is pretty dark too.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)All this totalitarian bs is depressing. It's nice to be able to laugh just a little, due to disappearing proof about The Muslim.
timdog44
(1,388 posts)believe Edward Snowden over the government that represents us, it is OK. The information about the Chinese and the Muslim references were straight form Wikipedia. I have since gone back and those statements have been edited out. By the Washington Post? So do you trust the Washington Post?
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)But it was just there a minute ago!
timdog44
(1,388 posts)care if you believe me or not. Believe Snowden if you want. And then put your head in the sand.
timdog44
(1,388 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)Have I misunderstood you? Who is The Muslim, and what sort of forbidden love has he expressed for Snowden? Tis is starting to sound like an old radio show.
timdog44
(1,388 posts)I don't have privileges to edit on Wikipedia. All I did was post what I found on Wiki a the time I found it.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)timdog44
(1,388 posts)Edward Joseph Snowden is a technical contractor and a whistleblower who released classified material on the United States National Security Agency's PRISM surveillance program.
Personal life
In 2003, Edward Snowden enlisted in the United States Army. He was discharged after breaking both of his legs in a training accident. He then went to work as a security guard for a covert NSA facility at the University of Maryland. After that he went to the CIA, where he worked on IT security. In 2007 the CIA stationed him with diplomatic cover in Geneva, Switzerland, where he was responsible for maintaining computer network security. Leaving the CIA in 2009, he worked for a private contractor inside an NSA facility on a United States military base in Japan.
At the time of his departure from the US in May 2013, he was working for defense contractor Booz Allen Hamilton inside of the NSA in Hawaii. He described his life as "very comfortable", living with his girlfriend and earning a salary of "roughly $200,000." He arrived in Hong Kong and began living in a hotel room, where he provided an interview to The Guardian.
The Chinese lost a valuable asset and the Muslim are calling him a Hero ....
timdog44
(1,388 posts)I can't edit on Wikipedia.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)timdog44
(1,388 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)...when you go around pasting stuff about the Chinese and Muslims and then tell me our government is making that claim, don't expect a real easy time of it.
timdog44
(1,388 posts)As far as I am concerned all is OK, if OK with you. I will for sure put citations with stuff I post from now on. I have learned something at the very least. I will give you the credit for that. I am not sure who put that into Wikipedia, but I suppose I could find out, but I have been there enough already. Later.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)They even provide a link to a revision history search engine on that page.
Can you now provide a link to the original Wiki entry that matches what you posted here?
timdog44
(1,388 posts)And I don't know how to do what you are talking about.
I suspect maybe someone here may be able to. If anyone doubts me or believes me, maybe they would do it.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)And those links show all the text for each revision. There are even time stamps, so you could look by what time you copied the info.
If that's the wiki page you copied the info you posted from, you could easily find it from the link I posted.
It would be very easy for you to show that what you have stated is true, if you believe that is the case.
timdog44
(1,388 posts)It was a bit of a pain in the butt. But I found the citation. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Edward_Snowden&oldid=559115266
Edward Joseph Snowden[1] is a technical contractor and a whistleblower who released classified material on the United States National Security Agency's PRISM surveillance program.[2]
Personal life
In 2003, Edward Snowden enlisted in the United States Army. He was discharged after breaking both of his legs in a training accident. He then went to work as a security guard for a covert NSA facility at the University of Maryland. After that he went to the CIA, where he worked on IT security. In 2007 the CIA stationed him with diplomatic cover in Geneva, Switzerland, where he was responsible for maintaining computer network security. Leaving the CIA in 2009, he worked for a private contractor inside an NSA facility on a United States military base in Japan.[2]
At the time of his departure from the US in May 2013, he was working for defense contractor Booz Allen Hamilton inside of the NSA in Hawaii. He described his life as "very comfortable", living with his girlfriend and earning a salary of "roughly $200,000."[2] He arrived in Hong Kong and began living in a hotel room, where he provided an interview to The Guardian.[2]
The Chinese lost a valuable asset and the Muslim are calling him a Hero ....
And now the person who thinks I am a liar needs to step forward and say "I am sorry". This pissed me of to no end. I thought we are better than that here. I respect a difference of opinion and even some fighting. I don't like being disparaged the way I was. You can bet your sweet, not, ass I will cite everything I post on here from now on.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)That's important to do. And I appreciate that you went through the links to find the wiki entry that included that odd bit of editorializing. It looks like the process there did a good job of reviewing content and removing bad content.
Speaking of being disparaged, why the need to write "You can bet your sweet, not, ass" to me?
I just asked you to back up your claim and provided you the means to do so.
timdog44
(1,388 posts)it was totally unintended. I still get confused as to who the response goes to sometimes. It was really directed at someone else, but I can't give you a citation for that. On this one, my word will have to do. Please accept my apology for the unintended slight.
You were very helpful and I have learned something new today and that makes it a good day, to your credit.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)It can be confusing when posting to someone here, especially when you are looking at many different threads in succession, as we all often do.
timdog44
(1,388 posts)"You can bet your sweet, not, ass" in the response to your post but meant it for someone else. Another thing I learned today. That makes number two. Thank you for teaching them both to me.
timdog44
(1,388 posts)and cannot find the original post I cited. I know it to be there as it is in its original form as I posted about him. The first was about him and the other part of the post was about Booze Warner or whoever he worked for. And I posted that part to show what a bunch of "do gooders" he worked with and for. Believe me or not. At this point I care not. I know I was correct. Call me liar to your hearts content. He is not what he seems to be.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)Whiskey Ring
Teapot Dome
My Lai
Pentagon Papers
Watergate
Saturday Night Massacre
Iran-Contra
Meh.
But popping a years-old open secret, Congressionally authorized, legal, with no known victims...
"the biggest intelligence leak in US history"
or...
"one of the most significant leaks in US political history"
Is Glenn Greenwald today's Edward R. Murrow or what?
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)So this line: "the biggest intelligence leak in US history", most likely does not come from Greenwald
But this line: "one of the most significant leaks in US political history", does.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)... just wanted to be first!
Seriously, nice going, Sr. Snowden. Love that he's with private industry. No naked military cell for this guy (let's hope).
reformist2
(9,841 posts)timdog44
(1,388 posts)to rethink your assertion there. Snowden is a self seeking 15 minute of fame seeker. Bigger hero than Obama? Man, the people tthey let on here on DU.
Historic NY
(37,451 posts)he was a contractor not a US government employee.