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Abukhatar

(90 posts)
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 02:52 PM Jun 2013

RE NSA - non issue because there really is no privacy

all this controversy really boils down to a choice of who do you want accessing your information - private corporations or the government - everything you do - phone calls, texts, email, browsing history is tracked by a variety of corporations - Verizon has your phone records, Google has your brosing history and email, facebook has your friends, your pictures, your activities etc. These companies can sell your information to who ever they want to -

so bottom line is who would you trust less in using your information?

now if you want complete privacy, get off the grid

10 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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RE NSA - non issue because there really is no privacy (Original Post) Abukhatar Jun 2013 OP
It wont hurt, I promise DJ13 Jun 2013 #1
your conspiracy ridicule is off base Abukhatar Jun 2013 #2
You've set up a totally false dilemma here . . . markpkessinger Jun 2013 #3
thank you - a well thought out response Abukhatar Jun 2013 #9
Ben? cherokeeprogressive Jun 2013 #4
try harder Abukhatar Jun 2013 #8
Quisling talking point #478: "Give up, you've already lost." backscatter712 Jun 2013 #5
name calling your only resort? Abukhatar Jun 2013 #6
How about the fact that it's ALSO a private corporation collecting your data for the gov't? scarletwoman Jun 2013 #7
yes there is that.... Abukhatar Jun 2013 #10

Abukhatar

(90 posts)
2. your conspiracy ridicule is off base
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 04:07 PM
Jun 2013

Come on now, a smart person like you do know the difference between a conspiracy and a fact right? Tell me you think it is imaginary that your phone records are not kept by your service providers, that your browsing history and patterns are not tracked by google and facebook?

markpkessinger

(8,401 posts)
3. You've set up a totally false dilemma here . . .
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 09:32 PM
Jun 2013

Yes, private companies have records of any and all of your activity involving the use of their services: telephone companies have information on all calls to and from their subscribers, ISPs have information concerning the sites accessed via their service, email providers store copies of your email correspondence on their servers, credit card companies and banks store information regarding your non-cash purchases, etc. But no one of those private companies is collecting and storing (nor are they permitted to collect and store) information across such a wide array of services by multiple providers, then analyzing and cross-referencing that data from multiple providers in such a way as to provide a comprehensive picture of a person's activities (and then drawing conclusions about what that person is up to based on those activities). And there are laws governing what data those private companies may collect and store, and to whom, and under what circumstances, that data may be released. So to frame this issue as merely a question of who collects data, private companies or the government, fails on the face of it. Private companies will continue, as they always have, to collect information related to the use of their products or services. The question here is whether government can be trusted to collect from across all these companies for purposes of analyzing it and cross-referencing it, regardless of how the government claims it is using it.

Now, some may say that all of this is perfectly fine and acceptable in pursuit of the goal of thwarting potential terrorist attacks. But here's the thing: neither those folks, nor anybody else save those who are privy to the details of these programs, can really know whether that data is being used only for the purpose of thwarting potential terrorist attacks. It is critically important to take a long view on these issues. Even if you have absolute trust in this President and his administration that they will not in any way misuse this information, what assurance do you have that the next one, or the one after that, will not do so? With the administration fighting so furiously to keep the details of the program secret, and to keep it relatively free from judicial oversight, where are the checks to prevent some future President from directing the NSA to cross-reference all that data in such a way as to identify persons who may be involved with, say, a political organization to which that President is opposed?

Your post also seems to take an all-or-nothing view of privacy in the way you suggest that because people voluntarily (or not so voluntarily, in some cases) disclose certain information, that we shouldn't even bother trying to put into place any protection for the privacy of ALL information about our selves. If that's where you are going with this, then we might as well use the Fourth Amendment as toilet paper, because that's about all it will be good for.

Abukhatar

(90 posts)
9. thank you - a well thought out response
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 01:33 AM
Jun 2013

thanks you sir/madam for a well thought out response and the a very good point about triangulation of the data - this leads to another point - being that we cannot allow corporations to consolidate - it means our data in the hands of just a few - i like them separate and silo'ed - even prevented from sharing -

the main point i was saying is that we have no real privacy - if we participate in the modern world, we leave our footprint everywhere - these footprints are immortalized in bits and bytes and stored in someone's database. we accept that corporation can access or even trade these, but we are less comfortable that the government should - we have been conditioned to mistrust the government on a lot of things yet we seem to easily trust them (yeah not all of us) to send our kids to risk their lives in various adventures - yes there are shades of gray all over the place - call me naive but i believe in the premise that the gov't knows a bunch of things i don't know and on some things they make the right call (not saying this is one)

so to conclude - keep an open mind - the government sometimes do look out for your welfare - can you say the same for corporations (most of the time)?

yeah in my little post i've been called a conspiracist, a coward, told to ben dover just cause i had a different point of view. Welcome to democracy

Abukhatar

(90 posts)
6. name calling your only resort?
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 11:20 PM
Jun 2013

Like a said it is a non issue. Your data is controlled by private institutions. Govt wants to be able to control it as well. Who is more likely looking out for your benefit?

You are really courageous fighting the fight. But I think the outrage is directed against the wrong organization. Don't call me a coward for not drinking your kool-aid

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
7. How about the fact that it's ALSO a private corporation collecting your data for the gov't?
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 11:26 PM
Jun 2013

You're not asking us to trust the government, you're asking us to trust a private contractor.

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