General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHow Boehner, the Koch brothers, et al must be laughing now.
After a season of fake scandals, they finally found the one that would tear the Dems apart.
No one cares that the Patriot Act consistently passes with more Rethug votes. They're sitting back and watching the media hang Obama with this.
And many of us are so gullible, we help them.
G_j
(40,367 posts)The PATRIOT Act renewal?
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)collecting phone numbers. Sorry.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)It's so blatantly obvious, I don't understand why all Democrats can't see how they're being used the way you and I do.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)No, the Bush administration engaged in warrantless wiretapping and the Bush administration lied us into the war with Iraq. Obama is nowhere close to the worst excesses of the Bush administration.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)Fortunately.
How do you think Obama got elected?
Think about it...
chillfactor
(7,576 posts)his ass is sinking into a black hole.....
Initech
(100,081 posts)wandy
(3,539 posts)If we get out the pitchforks and start demanding heads to roll...
So much for 2014.
Teapublicans win.
If we turn a blind eye to this, abandon our sense of right and wrong and follow blindly.
We become just like them.
Teapublicans win.
What is infuriating is that gosh dam it I smell a rat!
Or is it a Rove.
Savannahmann
(3,891 posts)If we take on the authoritarian mantle of the opposition, what do we stand for? It is party over principle, and it is the sin we have often labeled the Republicans with. We called former moderates and Liberals who abandoned their principles Neo-Con's. What do we call Democrats who have abandoned their principles and placed party first and foremost?
Next, where do we draw the line? What authoritarian program will we oppose? Take the arguments for this NSA nonsense, and apply it to any inconceivable program. Remember, this idea of collecting all the metadata of your phone was inconceivable a generation ago. Interestingly enough, a few privacy activists argued that this would be the inevitable outcome when we legislated the requirement that cell phone companies put GPS systems into their phones under the E-911 system. They were blasted as fearmongers, and fools. Nobody wants to collect that data, there would be no way to sort it we were told.
You shouldn't be worried if you have nothing to hide is the often unspoken and occasionally spoken argument for this program. Indeed, so why not require lie detector tests to determine loyalty of the citizenry. Obviously we are all loyal Americans, and anyone who isn't is obviously a traitor dedicated to our downfall. If you aren't a traitor, you have nothing to hide. Insane you'll say, impossible to put into practice you'll say. But remember, that is the same thing people said during the E-911 system debates. Who knows what will be possible in another twenty years. Right now, we are heading in a most determined fashion for a destination I dread like no other.
I can find no good reason to authorize this kind of violation of the privacy of the people. The only reason we are given is that we must support the President, or the Republicans win. Isn't that the same argument the Republicans used when passing this? We must do this or the Terrorists win. If we are committed, and determined that this is the course we will take, the Republicans have already won. We will never have a true Democrat in the White House, only shades of slightly less evil Republicans who call themselves Democrats. That is a future in which the Republicans have won. It is a future that many here seem determined to see come true. It is one that I will object to and be dragged kicking and screaming into.
For me, being a Democrat is not a choice of party, if so we could be parties identified with colors, or other meaningless labels. We must unite around the principles that we as Democrats, and Americans hold sacred. If the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights is not to be held sacred, then the obvious question is this. Why do we ask voters to support us? We must stand together, but we must rally around something more meaningful that the word Democrat. We must unite behind the principles of Civil Rights, because without those all the other battles go from difficult, to impossible.
Finally a warning. Right now we have a Democrat in the White House. Let's say he's as wonderfully honorable as we hope he is. What about who comes next? What if it is a lunatic like Rand Paul? Will you trust him not to abuse this information? What if it is a nut who implements those loyalty checks that are at the moment, impossible. Why should you worry, what do you have to hide? Imagine how much safer we could be if we could find those who don't want to play nice with the rest of us. We must do this for our security.
treestar
(82,383 posts)It can easily be traced back to them and Bush.
It is merely a Glenn Greenwald method.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/03/08/1192256/-The-Final-Word-on-Glenn-Greenwald
99Forever
(14,524 posts)You know what that was. He CHOSE not to. He OWNS it. Sorry reality doesn't set well with you.