What happens if you don't take the loyalty oath to Edward Snowden?

[ProSense]

Isn't it better to wait for the facts?

[dkf]

1. Don't worry we don't expect you to do so.

[OKNancy]

18. Oh the irony

talk about expectations.

[Cali_Democrat]

95. LOL

No kidding.

[arthritisR_US]

122. Both of you beat me to it!

[kestrel91316]

123. Indeed.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

2. Dupe

[Cooley Hurd]

8. ...in more than one way.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

44. he's very predictable, eh... and he should update his cut-n-paste notebook ;)

If he has any hope of one day becoming more effective at his craft.

[Cha]

89. You know fuck all nothing about her.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

104. just what I read from her own mouth right here on the internets

which granted, is a lot of nothing, at the eod.

[Cha]

110. Nah, your post is showing that nothing is coming from you.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

111. the

feeling is mutual

[Cha]

87. Yuk Yuk

[Cha]

85. yeah, you shouldn't talk that way about yourself.

[byeya]

86. stooge

[Cha]

88. yeah, you have nothing but insults and personal attacks.. poor thing.

[boilerbabe]

92. wow. i am amused how you brazely accuse others of exactly what you do!!

you are something else. ROFL unfuckingbelievable.

[Cha]

96. Prove it. While you're at.. bring up some of those insults that you toss around.

[sheshe2]

102. ROFL!

Jurer #3

LEAVE IT ALONE and said: LOL Cha is the queen of "ridiculously rude personal" attacks.~ (Insert smilies and hearts here.)

Snort!

You go girl!!!!!!!!!

[Cha]

115. Yay! Personal Insults are a Free For All.. so says the jury!

"Half of the comments in this thread are personal. Hiding one is just picking sides." yeah, don't hide a personal insult because you might be picking a "side" which you have already picked.

And, I'm "the queen of ridiculously rude attacks"..
I'd like to meet the hyperbolic peep who stated that! Oh, was that too much of a ridiculously rude attack?!

Mahalo, she~

[sheshe2]

125. Long live the Queen!

Is ...Yuk Yuk an insult?

and I'm sticking with



:eek1: didn't work for me.

However I am rather fond of Wilson!

[Cha]

126. LOL! "Yuk Yuk" was ridiculously Rude! doncha know..

Wilson's good.

Thanks she!

[sheshe2]

127. Wilsoooooon is good!

Listen to Queen for a day~

Click on~

http://www.televisiontunes.com/Queen_for_a_Day.html

[Tien1985]

98. And someone is alert free for a day...

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

ridiculously rude personal attack

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:34 PM, and the Jury voted 0-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Half of the comments in this thread are personal. Hiding one is just picking sides.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: LOL Cha is the queen of "ridiculously rude personal" attacks.~ (Insert smilies and hearts here.)
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[uppityperson]

118. "Half of the comments in this thread are personal. Hiding one is just picking sides" ARGHH!!!!!!!!!!

each nasty post is alerted on by itself. Whoever wrote this, you were asked to rule on 1 post. Also, SOME post has to be the first hidden and saying "oh, no others are hidden" then becomes NOTHING gets hidden.

Tien1985, not picking on you (unless that was you) but these sorts or jury responses get my goat. Hide the personal attacks and maybe, just maybe, those on the next jury might think "hmmm, personal attacks are being hidden. I think I'll hide this one also".

grrr grumble rant

[rug]

3. I dunno. What happened when you took yours?

[cherokeeprogressive]

103. I'm pretty sure there was a plaque and a picture involved... n/t

[DisgustipatedinCA]

4. Fax machine jammed? Uh oh.

[Cooley Hurd]

5. ?

Snowden is not a nation-state, nor any sort of entity in which one would take a "loyalty oath" to or for.

This is the best argument you can come up with?

[neverforget]

6. What happens when you jump the shark?

[Laelth]

61. Well played. n/t

-Laelth

[reformist2]

7. Feel free to wait for the Obama rapid repsonse team to give you all "the facts." ;)

[ProSense]

11. Oops, it looks

like I've pissed off those who already took the oath.

[Skittles]

19. you have the utter GALL to talk about LOYALTY OATHS?

YOU?

OMG THE HUMANIY!!!

[ProSense]

23. Oh, the U Manatee

The audacity of being free!

[AnalystInParadise]

42. Yep the audacity of being free

Too bad it doesn't apply to this young man, right prosense? I mean this is an either or situation

Either he committed no crime since this stuff was already known and in that case your glee at tearing him down is so very weird. In essence you are trying to tear down someone who did nothing right and nothing wrong.

OR

He exposed Constitutional violations that have occurred under President Bush and now President Obama. In that case you are in fact defending the silencing of an American citizen who had the audacity to think he was free to expose such crimes against the American people.

I will now wait for your software upgrade to take place which will allow you to post something in response. I neither expect your post to make an coherent sense or be anywhere on topic.

[ProSense]

50. I don't

"Yep the audacity of being free

Too bad it doesn't apply to this young man, right prosense? I mean this is an either or situation

Either he committed no crime since this stuff was already known and in that case your glee at tearing him down is so very weird. In essence you are trying to tear down someone who did nothing right and nothing wrong."

...think you understand what being free means. I'm free to have an opinion. You're free to disagree. The leaker is free to leak. Having an opinion is not against the law. Leaking classified information is.

When one does so, they know that there will be consequences.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2979438

Josh Marshall on Edward Snowden
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022978492

What’s the Deal with Hong Kong?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022979139

[AnalystInParadise]

51. And so is using

the Intelligence Apparatus to collect on American citizens....At least it used to be. Still waiting on that upgrade, huh?

[ProSense]

57. Actually,

"And so is using the Intelligence Apparatus to collect on American citizens"

...the program was conducted legally. So this is a case of someone leaking information on a program that was conducted according to law.

[AnalystInParadise]

63. Got it

there is absolutely no reason to even speak to you, you will defend the indefensible with your dying breath because "our team" is in charge. And it is not legal to use the Intelligence Apparatus to collect on Americans. Army Intelligence Analysts learn that on day one of the 16 week 35F Intelligence Analyst course. WE DO NOT COLLECT ON OUR PEOPLE. But keep fucking that chicken my friend........

[ProSense]

71. Actually,

"Got it

there is absolutely no reason to even speak to you, you will defend the indefensible with your dying breath because "our team" is in charge. And it is not legal to use the Intelligence Apparatus to collect on Americans. Army Intelligence Analysts learn that on day one of the 16 week 35F Intelligence Analyst course. WE DO NOT COLLECT ON OUR PEOPLE. But keep fucking that chicken my friend........"

...there is no use talking to you because you're intent on ignoring the facts. So you keep screaming and "fucking that chicken" in lieu of dealing with the facts.

While Udall reserved the brunt of his criticism for the decision by the intelligence community to keep the surveillance program a secret rather than criticize the program itself — later on Sunday he actually defended the PRISM program that monitors communications overseas, and doesn’t log all metadata — he did question the effectiveness of collecting billions of phone records made by Americans.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022977943

[AnalystInParadise]

74. LOL

I am ignoring the facts.......At least your ignorance can still make me laugh. Kudos for that. We are done here Nonsense

[ProSense]

77. Maybe it's because you really have no clue what the facts are. n/t

[AnalystInParadise]

80. Yep

no idea.....your logic and mastery of debate has left all of DU unworthy of being in the same plane of existence as you. Please tell us all some more of these things that you and only you are factually informed about.

[Major Hogwash]

100. Dis ish a DOO ZEE of an answer!!!

Yup, yup, yup.

[Bonobo]

106. It

[sheshe2]

108. Wait What?

reformist2 (4,144 posts)
7. Feel free to wait for the Obama rapid repsonse team to give you all "the facts."

You got your REP Sonse that fast!?!?!?

Holy shit.....sign me up! I never know what to say!

You go girl, keep on keeping on!

[Logical]

30. Sounds like you found a story that you are having trouble spinning. Cracks me up. n-t

[AnotherMcIntosh]

41. Yep.

[LondonReign2]

112. The next round of spin won't be ready until Monday

They're really scuffling with it being a Sunday.

[Cha]

91. Just for asking to wait for facts. Nothing quite as incendiary.

[Buzz Clik]

13. whoops. Sorry, dude, but you blew it. Right here. Right now

To get pissed off like a real righteous leftie, you don't use phrases like that. That post was flawed on multiple levels. I expect to see better next time.

[Logical]

36. LOL, so true. It is funny to just wait and see what it posts next. n-t

[cherokeeprogressive]

9. Um...

"...it wouldn't suprise me if there is an agenda here."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022978492

[DisgustipatedinCA]

20. Crickets and hypocrisy...not a great music selection, but it's what we've got.

[cherokeeprogressive]

34. Did you watch "This Week"? Rep. Ellison used the word "fiction" when asked about access to info...

This exchange starts at about 2:50.

Stephanopoulos: You're a member of congress. The president said on friday that every member of congress has access to the information. You can first start out by explaining by a member of congress not on the committee n know about this program?

Ellison: I would say almost nothing. You can't bring your staff in there so we're moving around capitol hill at lightning speed, nearly every member of congress is, if you can't get any staff support, you got to go into that room and pour through documents. Are you allowed everything?

I don't think I am. I'm allowed to see certain things. It's available if you make certain times and places to go see it.

The fact is, no, I'm not aware of this program that was revealed today. I have no notes. We checked our e-mails and our notes.

So, I think it's a fiction. It's a fiction that everybody in congress knows.

http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/video/week-roundtable-privacy-security-19359675?tab=9482930§ion=1206874&playlist=19360106

Even Krugman said we're now an authoritarian state.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

37. I didn't see it, no. Thank you for the link.

[Laelth]

65. Thanks for that post. n/t

-Laelth

[southernyankeebelle]

10. Well they wouldn't of hired him. But you know I once took a test years ago to apply

for a job at NSA. I mean they ask you all kinds of questions and some very personal. I was glad I didn't get the job. We took tests and when we took breaks and needed to go to the bathroom we had to have someone go with the group. I knew then and there I didn't want to work at a place like this. He had to know working at a place like that there would be some things that are questionable.

[Buzz Clik]

15. It's called "security." It happens in industry, too.

[southernyankeebelle]

70. Yes and in a private firm where he was paid to do a job and leaked information of any

kind he could be fired and even prosecuted. I'm not saying he didn't do us all a favor however, he was being paid to do a job and let's face it we don't really know how much damage just him alone has done. Like I said before all hell would break loose if another 9/11 happened on this adminstrations watch. So I do have a lot of mixed feelings.

[Buzz Clik]

12. Did you just fall of the truck and wander into this place?

1. Hysteria first and foremost. The subject does not matter. Post a thread and go crazy.

2. Facts? They can be inconvenient. Use them sparingly and only if they fit your original premise.

3. "Wait..." You have got to be kidding. Some new could roll along while wasting time being patient.

And, no matter what, pay no attention to past history. Just because we've been pounded by a bunch of trumped up crapola from the right doesn't mean that they will do it again.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

21. Do you support the President's spying program or not?

[Buzz Clik]

24. Am I with you or against you. Well? WELL???!!!1111

We have ways of making you talk.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

27. If your fear keeps you from answering, fine

It's good to know. Important things are happening, and there's no time for non-serious people. Thanks.

[Buzz Clik]

31. Take off.

This shit fell below the righteous indignation threshold about two days ago. It's degraded into a pissing match of who can pretend to be the most shocked: "If you are not as outraged as I am, then you are not a true progressive. Not a true American."

Such ca-ca.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

48. Go look up the phrase courage of conviction

And when you're no longer terrified to tell me just how you feel about the constitution, you get back to me.

[Buzz Clik]

54. I've noticed that "fear", "afraid", "terrified" are pervasive in these threads.

You have extended an emotion onto me that is misplaced in this context. Sorry, but this crap just does not scare me.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

62. You're making light of a totalitarian program

You want to throw stones at those who care about the Constitution, and pure doing a lot of that. You're acting for all the world like you support this abortion, but you won't be pinned down and come right out and admit it. To admit support of this program would make you look like someone wanting to lick Stalin's boots. To admit that you're against this program would necessitate you ceasing to be a jackass to those who care about personal privacy and government openness. You'd also need to drop the cult of personality behaviors you exhibit. So you've chosen to stand for nothing, and to play the wise-ass who makes fun of the dopes who don't want a surveillance state. And that's why I referred to you as a non-serious person. Thank you.

[Laelth]

66. +1 n/t

-Laelth

[Buzz Clik]

79. You've missed the point of my responses and this thread:

I'm making light of the hysterical DUers who have gone totally obsessive-compulsive over this issue. You know -- people who would say this to someone they know nothing about:

To admit support of this program would make you look like someone wanting to lick Stalin's boots. To admit that you're against this program would necessitate you ceasing to be a jackass to those who care about personal privacy and government openness.

That's who I'm ridiculing.

[Cha]

93. Yeah, that one likes to bark orders and if you don't

feel his demands are worthy of your attention then you're accused of being a FEARED!!111 Disgusting.

They throw out "enemy of the state", too, but those got hidden. lol

P.S. I think you're a very serious person.

[markiv]

14. I think you know more about loyalty oaths, than the rest of us nt

[Buzz Clik]

17. OH, SNAP!

:EYES:

[Maven]

16. Why? Are you worried about Unamerican Activities?

[cali]

22. you certainly aren't with your nasty little snark shit.

[ProSense]

25. Oh,

it's you.

[Cooley Hurd]

35. Your response is ironic...

...since, well, it's YOU!

[Logical]

26. +1000, she/he is out of control today. Too "real" of a story for her/him to spin. n-t

[ProSense]

29. Well,

"+1000, she/he is out of control today. Too 'real' of a story for her/him to spin."

...just for that, I'm not going to take this poll: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022978554

[Logical]

32. 70% to 30%. Looks like you are getting an ass kicking. n-t

[ProSense]

33. Oh, damn. I'm not kewl! n/t

[Logical]

38. No, just wrong as usual. n-t

[Cooley Hurd]

43. Hey now... at least their office window overlooks the Ellipse!

[Logical]

45. Nice View! n-t

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

49. looks like you have a major perception problem on your hands

Do you honestly believe that it's because most DUers have been duped by the M$M?

It couldn't possibly be because Americans actually treasure their liberties and will take issue with any President who doesn't respect them, no matter which party they are from, in your opinion?

I think all of you who are in support of these ineffective (Boston bombing) massively wasteful, and blatantly unconstitutional policies of vacuuming up ALL digital and phone communications are fighting a losing battle and are on the wrong side of history.

Do you really want to pass on a police state to your children, and your children's children?

Then what precisely is your motivation for the defense of these indefensible wrong-headed policies?

[Laelth]

67. +1 Well said. n/t

-Laelth

[ProSense]

68. No,

"looks like you have a major perception problem on your hands

Do you honestly believe that it's because most DUers have been duped by the M$M? "

...not at all. In fact, the MSM is just a tool.

"It couldn't possibly be because Americans actually treasure their liberties and will take issue with any President who doesn't respect them, no matter which party they are from, in your opinion? "

Yeah, that's the reason so many of these reports rely on misinformation, right?

Can't possible stick to the facts if the goal is to create the impression that something nefarious is being done.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

76. You didn't answer my question and

You ignore, as usual, all the whistle blowers, and adopt without fail, the talking points of authorities.

[backscatter712]

60. Nailed it.

They're sputtering right now looking for angles to discredit, haven't found one, so they're going with "THEY'RE BEING HYSTERICAL!"

"Waiting for the facts" == waiting for the smear campaign to begin in earnest. They can't let the discussion have legitimacy if they can't get the character-assassination machine rolling.

[marions ghost]

140. BINGO -- approved sound bite is "They're being HYSTERICAL!!!!!"

Let's all wait and see what the Truth/Spin is....

[hobbit709]

28. I don't do loyalty oaths to ANYONE.

[99Forever]

39. Some of us don't do "loyalty oaths" to persons.

The same can't be said for Cult of Personality members.

[dennis4868]

40. Facts?

Facts matter at DU? hahaha!

[Generic Brad]

46. Objective, measured responses are not welcome here

Only knee jerk reactions and judgmental accusations will do. If you do not 100% agree, then you are an apologist or part of the problem or a government operative.

[Marr]

47. STAY TUNED! Up next on Whiplash Theater...

Jeffrey Dahmer will be stopping by to criticize meat eaters. And after that, Chris Brown will castigate the audience for their subtle misogyny.

[LWolf]

52. Irony. nt

[boston bean]

53. Nothing probably.

Something might happen if you were found to be supportive of his actions in your emails, online postings or in phone calls with friends.

[BeyondGeography]

55. Don't trust anyone under 30

[The Magistrate]

56. Why, The Usual Suspects, Ma'am, Will Give You the Business

And from several directions.

The Venn diagram of factions on this would be fascinating....

[ProSense]

59. "The Venn diagram of factions on this would be fascinating...."

[Major Hogwash]

72. Ve don't vant to know venn, ve vant to know vye.

Vye, vere, and vith vhom.

[freshwest]

114. 'Und Now Vee Vill Punish You.'

Enjoy the Apocalypse

Haha, made you look. No, it's Apocalyptica:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101747798

[Fumesucker]

90. Probably look more like a Klein Bottle than anything n/t

[Vinnie From Indy]

58. Don't you mean talking points?

Cheers!

[wandy]

64. In keeping with my normally cautious manner I think I'll wait for more facts..............

The more I get the whiff of this, the more I think I smell a rat.
Or is it a Rove.


3 months? I'm impressed.......

[Laelth]

69. I took an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States.

It appears to me that Mr. Snowden cares about the Constitution too. Yes, he broke the law, but he did so in a way that benefits the entire world.

Should we not be happy about that?



-Laelth

[ProSense]

73. Oh please,

"Yes, he broke the law, but he did so in a way that benefits the entire world. "

...he leaked information related to program that was conducted legally and has been known to everyone.

I find that very strange.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2979438

[AnalystInParadise]

82. If it is known to everyone

then why is he a criminal, since you just told me he broke the law......I know what I find very strange.....

[Laelth]

136. Good point. n/t

-Laelth

[Laelth]

135. Yes, he broke the law.

So did Rosa Parks and Henry David Thoreau and other civil rights crusaders. Why are you surprised to find Democrats that support civil disobedience? It's a time-honored way to object to immoral and unconstitutional laws.

-Laelth

[WinkyDink]

75. Oh, brother.

[bobduca]

78. Presidents. Oaths and the Constitution

Nothing as bad as when President's fall short in their oaths.

Don't worry you get ++good for effort.

[treestar]

81. You should have done that already!!!!!!!!!!!!

You corporatist, bankster loving NSA agent!

[muriel_volestrangler]

83. Better to post flame bait, surely

That was your chosen course, after all.

[Safetykitten]

84. So the "second PowerPoint/evil twin" scenario did not turn out? Don't worry, something will turn up.

[TheKentuckian]

94. What loyalty oath are you talking about? Trying to get this reframed as Snowden vs Obama?

Make it a battle of personality and popularity?

What facts are you waiting for? A little dirt on the whistleblower? Maybe some politics you don't like?

Something outside the admitted to and defended program, I reckon.

Facts aren't just paths to spin and change the subject. What possible "facts" are going to change an undisputed program?

[Marr]

133. +1

[DirkGently]

97. False framing fail. (nt)

[backscatter712]

105. Ding-ding-ding! We have a winner! n/t

[DirkGently]

107. Seriously, the "pro" spinning around here used to be

better.

[gulliver]

99. Just take it.

We're talking about a man who saved us all from a fate beyond Orwellian.

[billh58]

101. Otherwise sensible people don't need no

stinkin' facts when a good conspiracy theory has taken on a life of its own...

[Fumesucker]

109. You're projecting so hard I bet you have film cans stuck to your head

[SMC22307]

113. Tsk. Weekend night-shift ProSense isn't very impressive. (n/t)

[ProSense]

116. I started this thread on purpose.

It's to collect stupid comments. Looks like it's working.

[SMC22307]

117. You hit the motherlode up-thread with...

hearts, moons, and stars. Well done.

[Logical]

119. The OP was stupid enough for everyone. n-t

[ProSense]

131. The best part of this

is watching the joy among people who believe that the most recs and hi-fives represent reality.

[Historic NY]

120. What funny is he fled to China....

where 30 cents solves the problem permanently.

[Union Scribe]

121. Or as you would call it, a "contract clause." nt

[SidDithers]

124. DU rec...

all the right people are pissed off. You must be doing something right.

Sid

[DesMoinesDem]

128. It has been so much fun watching ProSense lose his mind.

[ProSense]

130. Clearly you don't know me. I'm a "she."

It's fun watching the outrage machine churning on misinformation.

[DesMoinesDem]

138. I don't believe for a second that you are a single person.

Did you guys figure out your talking points yet? I would have loved to be at that meeting.

[ProSense]

141. Yeah, well that's par for the course.

Everything is a conspiracy.

[Iggo]

129. Huh?

[Rex]

132. Loyalty oaths?

[pecwae]

134. What happens to those

who suffer from terminal tunnel vision?

[mike_c]

137. so you're already trying to sow condemnation and distrust of the messenger....

Honest question: do you get paid to do this?

[LWolf]

139. There is no loyalty oath.

It's not about the messenger, but the message.

The real loyalty oath at DU is not about anybody but Barack Obama. What happens on DU to those who don't take THAT oath?