General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums***NSA LEAKERS COMPANY, BOOZ ALLEN, OWNED BY CARLYLE GROUP***
Yeap, no FUDr going on here...why would anyone think that there would be seeing the WAPO story has some gaping holes and that Obama didn't even NEED a warrant to collect the Meta Data!!
Looked at this crap sideways when it came out but no DOUBT I am going to give WAY LESS deference to the leaker knowing how and where he got his info from...I think these guys can spread some light on the issue
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/lesersense/2013/06/09/making-sense-with-steve-leser--nsa-spying-war-on-women
nah, no need to question motives of Carlye Group affliates....
none at all
neverforget
(9,436 posts)uponit7771
(90,347 posts)neverforget
(9,436 posts)about spying after an election to embarrass the President for a program that the President is defending? Wouldn't the Carlyle Group want a Republican in charge of the Executive Branch to get all those lucrative intelligence contracts?
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Shheeet, even I applied for a job there a while back.
Come back and tell us about it when you have more than THAT.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)How else could a private sector whistleblower obtain such documents unless he worked for a defense contractor?
The line of argument you're spinning is totally illogical.
If the docs were fake, don't you think BA, the NSA, the White House, and everyone else with an interest in this would be pointing that out? Or is Obama part of the conspiracy as well?
Cheez-itz, man. Think before you make such claims.
treestar
(82,383 posts)I knew people were jumping on hero status too quickly.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)and the other smears like the way they took down Dan Rather who had true info
with Jeb/Rand wanting to be the next ticket, I'm shocked, shocked that the Bush's friends would resort to dirty tricks now
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)They are nothing but dirty tricks.
Good to see you leaned something, finally.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)and goes about defending it?
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)They never know where the conspiracy is coming from
BeyondGeography
(39,375 posts)So I'm waving the red flag, too.
timdog44
(1,388 posts)When do we sit up and take note that all these are the product of an orchestrated repuke operation. I know that sounds like a conspiracy, but the facts are beginning to speak for them selves. Keep things like this in the news and nothing will ever get done. It is absolutely manufactured. The administration needs to be more forceful. And then needs to be believed, especially by the likes of us on Democratic Underground. We have to keep the, and here I go again, faith.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)Is Rand Paul running this whole operation from low earth orbit? Oh and, kindly direct me to the link showing that the President has stopped spying on hundreds of millions of Americans.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)...beleive their motives they've been so pure in the past no?
tia
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)uponit7771
(90,347 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)uponit7771
(90,347 posts)...leave out jot or tittle
regards
Cha
(297,323 posts)that's just a pesky detail.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)Obama is proud of the program and has defended it. He took an awful Bush program and made it worse, and he's defending it.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)REALLY!?
Cha
(297,323 posts)And, just because FACTS are brought to light that doesn't mean anyone is "shooting" the guy who ran off to China.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)Michael Hargrove @MichaelHargrov1
Smells strange, worked for BAH less that 3 months, gathers classified info, passes to Guardian and Greenwald, flee to HK, living it up.
Bob Cesca @bobcesca_go
A Ron Paul supporter and privacy supporter working for the NSA is like a vegan PETA supporter working for McDonald's. I don't get this guy.
http://theobamadiary.com/2013/06/09/after-newtown-shooting-mourning-parents-enter-into-the-lonely-quiet/#comments
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)Blue State Bandit
(2,122 posts)Let's be clear here. FISA was written by Ted Kennedy, and signed by Jimmy Carter.
Maven
(10,533 posts)(a corporation hired by the government to run this shameful invasion of its citizens' privacy) with the actual approval of said employer, in a secret plot to discredit Obama using Snowden as their "operative".
Otherwise your deliberate and desperate attempt to misdirect has been duly noted.
Thanks
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)Maven
(10,533 posts)of their own policy, then you're just talking out of your ass.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)...I could care less if the winger organization was DIRECTLY involved or not.
Work for GOP, get no trust from me!!!
Maven
(10,533 posts)Therefore the implausible scenario you're trying to sell as fact is completely based on a fabrication by you.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)...agenda and that rules IN their bias IMHO
...why shouldn't it?
regards
zeemike
(18,998 posts)McCarthyism is based on that exact same thinking.
If you went to a meeting of a group that McCarthy said had a communist agenda then you were one....and McCarthy knew a communist agenda when he saw one.
And I should not have to tell you why it shouldn't
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)zeemike
(18,998 posts)I no longer accept false dichotomy as a valid argument.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)RainDog
(28,784 posts)allow me to share, here, what I shared with you on the other thread related to the idea that this instantly proves anything...
we don't know enough about what's going on to know what's happened.
that's how I see it, anyway.
But, yes, this group does defense contracting.
That would include NSA sorts of work, I would imagine, since it's a company that specializes in computer applications.
I think it's probably one of the intel agency's fronts.
I don't know what that has to say about Snowden and I think you're making a mistake to act like this is the money shot in a political porn vid.. tho, who knows, maybe that will turn out to be the case.
or maybe Snowden is Deep Throat.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)...now recende my dislike of the program for now.
Screw that, I don't trust ANY..>ANY winger group....they're stupid and vapid
RainDog
(28,784 posts)so, you know, this goes both ways in the parties, regarding contractors and bribes and dirty dealings.
Check out Kwame Kilpatrick. Maybe that was all a giant conspiracy theory and someone coerced Kilpatrick to spend over three-fourths of a million dollars over his mayoral salary...
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)...doubt.
They shouldn't and ESPECIALLY them
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)2 days ago, you were in favor of spying.
Yesterday, you weren't.
Today, you've changed again.
Bear in mind, I have the links if ou really want to see 'em again. But you might want to spend the time retooling instead.
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)uponit7771
(90,347 posts)...either
deurbano
(2,895 posts)Or you wouldn't trust leaks of classified info from Powell?
AnalystInParadise
(1,832 posts)Defense company owned by another Defense Company had a Defense Contract with the government? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME....THAT"S FUCKING UNPOSSIBLE....SOMEONE CALL THE NEW YORK TIMES, WE MIGHT HAVE A FUCKING STORY HERE.
WOW the stupid burns on this........
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)...noted
AnalystInParadise
(1,832 posts)Of course they have an agenda, but who on this planet does not have an agenda that is involved with Big Business.
They are in defense, do you deny that is one of their investments?
And thank you for noting......I noted your notation.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)...is enough for me to scream loud and wide about this guy
AnalystInParadise
(1,832 posts)you believe this is some massive conspiracy to taint President Obama and his administration even though it could cost Carlyle billions of dollars in revenue.....Or more likely nothing at all like that is happening and your are more paranoid than our government right now.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)...at face value
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)...therefore my bum is a 501c.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)...I think that's fair no?
tia
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)Yes, Truth IS All.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)the leak of classified information related to a program, legally conduct and that everyone has known about, to cheering the leaker.
All the facts are still unknown, and those that are coming out are being dismissed.
Fact: The program was legally conducted.
It's a little strange that someone leaks information on something that was done according to law.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)given up the ability to use these awesome powers when they left office. For all we know, the reason Diane Feinstein and Saxby Chambliss are such ardent defenders of the spying is because they have been compromised using these tools and now do BushCo.'s bidding or face personal destruction. Far out, but certainly possible.
ananda
(28,867 posts)This reeks of cronyism and a huge payoff to Snowden.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)I don't think anyone has a right to howl over who owns what corporation.
When your own government captures more information than the corporations you fear, maybe you need to re prioritize your fears.
"The government is watching me? Meh. Monsanto has a way to grow soy in an armpit? ZOMG!!!!!!!! THE HUMANITYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!"
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)...and not to be trusted.
I'll wait for more info now
UTUSN
(70,711 posts)Yaas, CARTER had a nest of vipers at his breast: Tweety and Pat CADDELL. However, RUBENSTEIN is a great philanthropist, bought/donated a copy of the Magna Carta, and fired Shrub when Shrub got a trophy job with Carlyle, when Shrub contributed nothing to the board meetings beyond hangovers and dirty jokes.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)UTUSN
(70,711 posts)(from another thread: )
*************QUOTE*************
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022979420
[font size=5]PRISM was an effective program and a good balance with civil liberties. Snowden should go to jail.[/font]
*************UNQUOTE*************
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)UTUSN
(70,711 posts)uponit7771
(90,347 posts)UTUSN
(70,711 posts)conspiracy theorizing.
I was going to check out here, but on second thought, am I understanding that your position is: 1) SNOWDEN worked for a CG entity; 2) SNOWDEN disrupted CG; therefore, 3) SNOWDEN is on the side of the angels?
I thought we were on the same page, but to repeat, the other DUer said it for me:
(from another thread: )
*************QUOTE*************
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022979420
[font size=5]PRISM was an effective program and a good balance with civil liberties. Snowden should go to jail.[/font]
*************UNQUOTE*************
elleng
(130,976 posts)'a 29-year-old former technical assistant for the CIA and current employee of the defence contractor Booz Allen Hamilton. Snowden has been working at the National Security Agency for the last four years as an employee of various outside contractors, including Booz Allen and Dell. . .
In a note accompanying the first set of documents he provided, he wrote: "I understand that I will be made to suffer for my actions," but "I will be satisfied if the federation of secret law, unequal pardon and irresistible executive powers that rule the world that I love are revealed even for an instant."
Despite his determination to be publicly unveiled, he repeatedly insisted that he wants to avoid the media spotlight. "I don't want public attention because I don't want the story to be about me. I want it to be about what the US government is doing."'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/edward-snowden-nsa-whistleblower-surveillance
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)... a broke arm.
elleng
(130,976 posts)he, like others we may have heard from, and like many of us in fact, is one small worker-bee, 'lucky' enough to have seen information which, when made public, might help Americans understand how decisions are/were made in the government. We might want to change the way decisions were made, as a consequence of learning these things.
It is ABSURD to attribute 'Carlyle' motives to such a person as Snowden.
I worked for the Federal Government during reagan's tenure, as well as Jimmy Carter's and Bush1 and 2, and Bill Clinton. Wanna pick and choose whose agenda I 'chose' to exercise?
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)...they're extremist wingers.
The "could" is good enough for me to take what he says with a block of salt
Maven
(10,533 posts)He gets to fuck over the Carlyle Group (just what is the administration doing paying them $$$ anyway?) AND expose the abuses of privacy by this administration in one shot!
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)...at face value?
tia
AnalystInParadise
(1,832 posts)I take the words of a 29 year old Defense Contractor over the spin issuing from Washington right now. He hasn't lied to me yet, my government has lied to me several times this week.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)...either.
I think Americas govern, though not anywhere near perfect, is pretty dog on good for the most part
Response to uponit7771 (Original post)
NightWatcher This message was self-deleted by its author.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)...wingers into office = not taking what their minions says about a dem at face value.
They say the sky is blue I go outside and check
Response to uponit7771 (Reply #63)
NightWatcher This message was self-deleted by its author.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)AnalystInParadise
(1,832 posts)They will work with any President to continue making money. That is how defense contractors work.....CG would work with Roseanne Barr if she was President to keep their contracts going. It is literally that simple.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)AnalystInParadise
(1,832 posts)neither shall the two meet..carlyle would sell the Bush family down the river if it meant huge profits....the fact that you are not even acknowledging this is stupefying.......
Response to uponit7771 (Reply #70)
NightWatcher This message was self-deleted by its author.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)...wingers ...
That's the reason not to trust them, they DO have a winger agenda
AnalystInParadise
(1,832 posts)money trumps personal ties.....do you not see that everyday of your life?
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)AnalystInParadise
(1,832 posts)Did you know that in each year of President Obama's Presidency that Booz Allen Hamilton's revenue has gone up, and next year is set to be their biggest ever....and yet CG is going to sacrifice over 6 billion a year to get in a dig at this President.....Again are you for freaking real?
AnalystInParadise
(1,832 posts)and will work with a Republican, a Democrat or a Martian to make more money. You know very little about Defense companies. They want to make money, not bring anyone down, it is very bad for business when one of their top intelligence companies is going to be punished for this. CG could lose billions.....and yet you think they would do that to get at President Obama.....pass that shit you are smoking over here I need a hit of that stuff.....
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)...start the truth and I don't see that's what Greenwald et al did in this case
siligut
(12,272 posts)Just a little disconcerting that some people cannot connect the dots and see the big picture.
jakeXT
(10,575 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)A corporate BFEE entity that would normally be condemned on DU. And anyone for working for it.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)Is this admin a secret BFEE front group? I think you may be onto something!!
AnalystInParadise
(1,832 posts)the thread about Snowden giving money to Ron Paul. The Caryle Group sold weapons and defense services when President Clinton was in office, they did so when Bush was in office and they are doing so while President Obama is in office. They will continue to do so as long as they are given contracts because that is what they do, make billions of dollars in defense sales. They have no agenda beyond making money. I won't deny they have right wing leadership, because it is true, but they will not sacrifice such a large cash cow like Booz allen to go after a sitting President. That's fucking stupid, they want to make money no matter who is in office and will work to keep their contracts with anyone who is elected as President and any Congress no matter which party controls it.
Booz allen made almost 6 billion dollars in 2012.......yeah they (CG)are going to endanger that cash cow to take a swipe at President Obama...... Are you for real?
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)AnalystInParadise
(1,832 posts)is that we have proof that CG worked with Clinton, Bush and now President Obama and have increased their sales in the last four years of defense related items and services. And since we have proof of that, it stands as wildly paranoid to suggest that CG would cut their own throats for no gain. Further my agenda is you have offered nothing beyond "they haz a wingerz agendaz"* even though their sales figures show they don't care who is in charge.
*Z's added to demonstrate the monotonous nature of your repetitive yet unfounded opinion
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)...opinion at all.
I just some winger groups have a REALLY hard agenda and Carlyle Group fits in that category regardless of who they work for.
I don't put it past wingers to be this grimy
sigmasix
(794 posts)The extreme right wing would never spend billions(small pocket change) to attack this president and be assured of future trillions after the extreme right wing has finished destroying our country from the inside.
The right has already shown it's hatred for America and the liberties we enjoy- why would anyone need to be reminded of this fact?
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)...come from anyone affliated with the GOP
steve2470
(37,457 posts)Note I said guess , because it's too early to know all the facts.
The guy supposedly doesn't even have a high school degree. He's great with computers. He was patriotic and maybe still is.
He eventually got up to (supposedly) $200,000 a year doing something "for his country". Remember this guy doesn't even have a HS degree. Key fact.
He got sicker and sicker of what he saw, despite the money and the patriotic appeal.
He eventually cracked and maybe deep down inside he wants to be a hero/famous/infamous.
Time will tell. If I'm wrong, I'll be happy to say so.
KrazyinKS
(291 posts)The whistleblower guy, they said on the news tonight he had to move to Hong Kong permanently. That he can't come back. So...isn't that like... expensive? Where did that money come from? I personally think that is a good question. Makes me wonder, hmmmm.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)...live for a sec without a job..
Good point
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Berlum
(7,044 posts)uponit7771
(90,347 posts)Enrique
(27,461 posts)THE ARMY THAT INVADED IRAQ!!!!!!!!!!!!
damnedifIknow
(3,183 posts)" Snowden voted for a third party in 2008, he told the Guardian, but believed in Obama to put an end to some of the surveillance practices. Instead, after a review, Obama continued the program according to administration officials, adding in additional layers of review to prevent abuse. He told the Guardian he got hardened after he watched as Obama advanced the very policies that I thought would be reined in.
http://swampland.time.com/2013/06/09/four-things-to-know-about-surveillance-leaker-edward-snowden/
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)JoeyT
(6,785 posts)If anything it should reflect poorly on the dumbasses that contracted the Carlyle Group.
The conspiracy theories have actually passed 9/11 CT level and are rapidly approaching Moon Landing Denial level of nutty.
markpkessinger
(8,401 posts). . . So what? The nature of whistleblowing is such that whistleblowers typically are folks who have worked in the "inside."