Great News Apologists. You're on the same side as Rep. Peter King.

[Savannahmann]

King who has made headlines here many times over his asinine comments on Islam, is calling on Snowdon to be extradited from Hong Kong.

King said: "If Edward Snowden did leak the NSA data as he claims, the United States government must prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law and begin extradition proceedings at the earliest date.

"The United States must make it clear that no country should be granting this individual asylum. This is a matter of extraordinary consequence to American intelligence."

The US has extradition agreements with Hong Kong with an exception for political offences. According to the US-Hong Kong Extradition Treaty signed in 1997, Hong Kong has the "right of refusal when surrender implicates the defence, foreign affairs or essential public interest or policy" of the People's Republic of China.

So who is working to assist the Republicans now? I mean, come on gang. When your ally is a Republican that wanted enhanced scrutiny of Muslims after the actions of two madmen brothers in Boston, what are you opposed to, and what in the world are you supporting? If we those who support transparency and restrictions on our Government's ability to spy upon its citizens, are awful because Rand Paul agrees with us, how awful are you for being on the same side as a known islamophobic? Or are we going to be told that the motivations of those on our side are subject to scrutiny, but your side are not subject to that scrutiny because you love America more than we do.

At least, that was the excuse when the Republicans were in power, we shouldn't object because they were fighting for America, while we were just along for the ride trying to destroy it. Does anyone else find it disturbing that we sound more and more like the Neo-Cons of the Bush Co cabal?

[veganlush]

1. so do you favor impeachment?

Or no?

[think]

5. No. How about we just get the spooks at the NSA to behave?

seriously....

[allin99]

76. he's not getting impeached, nothing bad is going to happen to obama.

[Daniel537]

2. I'm sure they have no problem with this.

Most of them are citing Republicans like Chambliss and Rogers as examples of why the police state is good, anyhow. Good ol' bipartisanship.

[graham4anything]

3. SO? many people against W were republicans and Paulites back then.They still hated Obama.

and President Obama wants this stopped, and obviously King does not.

So don't see the point?

It is being done now for a specific purpose to make democratic voters stay home in the special senate elections.

BTW-after 9-11, 99% of the country stood together, same after Boston marathon.
Terrorists are not party specific

Didn't we all cheer when OBL was taken down?

[zeemike]

17. no, we did not all cheer.

That is just your perception because the TV told you so.
Believe it or not, there are people who do not cheer because the crowd is cheering.
But not in a big brother government...cheering is required least someone call you out and you be a suspect for being a terrorist...

Perhaps 1984 is set to happen in 2014....forty years late.

[graham4anything]

19. I come from NY, I worked in the WTC, I cheered. I wish I was in Times Square that night.

It was the equiv. to the end of WW2.

I cheered because I wanted to.

and I don't need to apologize for it either.

1984 is a book, same as the ayn rand book of BS, neither of which is at all relevant to anything I myself care about.

that is what is great about libraries. They stock all books, most of which have a very, very limited audience and the limited audience
reads those that they care about

Doesn't mean I do.

1984 is the middle of the Ronald Reagan years, and in 1984, I lost a dear friend to AIDS that year.
Had he been alive now, a Broadway theatre would have been named for him, because he was just becoming a major behind the scene player on Broadway.

So, when you say 1984, I think of him, and think of how Reagan did NOTHING and he died.

And I still don't understand why democratic voters voted for Reagan in 1984. But they did.

btw, I am currently reading the latest James Patterson book. We all are free to read whatever we want to read.
Nobody is stopping anybody from doing anything.

[zeemike]

20. Well I did not cheer but not because I did not want to.

I would have cheered if they had captured him and brought him to this country to stand trial for the crimes that he was charged with...but in this day and age that is not an option, because dead men tell no tails and he could have reveled some secrets if he stood trial...His lawyers could have requested thing that would embarrass the government so he had to die...something that is in direct opposition to our constitution and laws.

I cheer when things are done in a legal and moral way....something that seems to be lost on some people.
And I don't need to apologize for that.

And Atlas Shrugged and 1984 are NOT the same in any way...and I have read both years ago...for one Orwell was an expert on language and Rand an expert in bullshit and nothing else....and Orwell's essays on the use of language are priceless works that are still relevant today.

[graham4anything]

22. In your opinion. We are FREE to disagree and we do. Ain't America great?

btw, I just re-read Airport by ARTHUR (not Alex) Hailey.

was a great book, and a great movie too.

Coincidentally, it was about a bomb in an Airplane. From the 1970s. Great cast in the movie.
Arthur Hailey was one of the great unsung popular writers of the day, now deceased.
His books took 3 or 4 years, because they were painstakeningly researched.

and NO freedom of anything has been taken away. We are free to all do as we please, except
no one can yell fire in a theatre, or say certain phrases at an airport.

[zeemike]

24. And the government is free to violate our rights.

That is what this is about...
That is not the America I grew up in and the one I learned about in school...in fact we were taught in school that kind of government was a totalitarian government like the USSR under Stalin.

But we have been moved steadily to that model not the model the constitution was founded on.

[raouldukelives]

26. Yep, some people think the words of Jefferson are quaint & outdated.

Quick to apologize and forgive every transgression. Only cheerleaders, never leaders.
While others feel sadness and a twinge of loss when his legacy is spit on. Feel a call to defend and stand up for that abused relic. Even at the prospect of being ridiculed by the many who bear no allegiance but to money, no love of country except in war and no thought to the future but their own.

[graham4anything]

29. you mean Tom's words about all MEN are created equal? (not women or minorities?)

sorry, I am not a fan of Jefferson whatsoever.
He meant the exact words he said.

[raouldukelives]

47. Well, your in good company these days. nt

[HardTimes99]

64. I wish there were a way to rec individaul replies. I once again applaud

your regard for such quaint and obsolete niceties as due process and Geneva (something about not disposing of combatants' corpses in unmarked graves springs to mind).

[dlwickham]

79. James Patterson?

really?

[HardTimes99]

62. I applaud you for holding your tongue with such aplomb. Ellsberg said

he feared we had gone over the edge of the abyss already and when someone 'cheers' the taking of a life, I fear Ellsberg may be right.

[Andy823]

63. How true

"It is being done now for a specific purpose to make democratic voters stay home in the special senate elections."

Divide and conquer! The more democrats that play into the hands of these tactics the better chance there is of getting more republicans elected, or God forbid, more tea party clowns! Why some here can't see that is beyond me. Sure they have a right to disagree, but when they start pushing the "I will never vote for another democrat", or "why vote both parties are the same", Obama is just like Bush, and I even heard today that the party will be "split" by 201, that's simply helping republicans, period!

[QC]

4. Don't forget John Yoo and Ari Fleischer. n/t

[G_j]

6. Don't forget Dianne Feinstein thinks so too

either way, it's not really fair to lump people together just because they agree on a single issue.

[Savannahmann]

8. I agree entirely.

Does that mean I'll stop seeing threads where I'm either a RW troll or an idiot who doesn't understand what I'm doing in helping the Republicans because I object to the NSA spying on Citizens?

[G_j]

13. of course you will see more of that

it bothers me too. It's pretty insulting being called a hater for expressing the liberal ideals I've held for decades.

[SunSeeker]

31. If you agree why do you do it? On Snowden, you are on the "same side" as Glenn Beck.

Glenn Beck just tweeted about Snowden that "I think I have just read about the man for which I have waited. Earmarks of a real hero." Do I think you and Glenn Beck are on the same side on every issue? No. No one here does. Stop insulting DUers.

[truebluegreen]

38. DiFi is not a liberal, whatever her party affiliation. nt

[fujiyama]

68. She's just a craven, opportunistic, war profiteering authoritarian.

nt

[truebluegreen]

70. Couldn't have said it better.

Sometimes I wonder where we would be if Harvey Milk was the senior senator from California...

[GeorgeGist]

7. Well, now that it's 'NSA data' ...

poutrage is justifiable.

[Recursion]

9. I'm still waiting for him to actually "leak" something

I've seen a few slides from a badly-designed PowerPoint and a lot of very dubiously technically possible claims on his part with no further substantiation.

[nashville_brook]

10. they're also on the side of Karl Rove and Ari Fleischer.

stay classy loyalists.

[stevenleser]

11. Great news hair on fire critics, you're on the side of tons of conservative pundits like Ann Coulter

jumping on this issue as an excuse to criticize the President

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/06/07/Coulter-NSA-Snooping-More-About-Harassing-Americans-Than-Fighting-Terrorism



COULTER: NSA SNOOPING MORE ABOUT ‘HARASSING AMERICANS’ THAN FIGHTING TERRORISM

Ann Coulter hammered the Obama Administration's credibility and competence with regard to the NSA snooping scandal. In a characteristically fiery appearance on Fox News Channel's "Hannity," Coulter pointed out that ... in the hands of President Barack Obama, it is being used for "harassing Americans."

[SoapBox]

21. Exactly WHO is being harassed?

[Major Nikon]

23. If Ann Coulter came out against drowning babies, you would have quite the ethical dilemma

Just sayin'

[stevenleser]

42. No, I wouldnt, I'm the one pointing out how ridiculous the OP is for doing this. nt

Last edited Mon Jun 10, 2013, 12:34 PM - Edit history (1)

[AtheistCrusader]

34. AaaaaauAAAAAAAAAAAAugh

Don't DO that

[madinmaryland]

53. Can you PLEASE use a GRAPHIC PHOTO ALERT when you post crap like that pic.

[Number23]

80. Wow!! Spitting image

[JaneyVee]

12. And Glenn Beck, Alex Jones takes the other side

https://twitter.com/glennbeck/status/343816977929867265

Its like Twilight Zone.

[DirkGently]

14. Republicans can't ride this horse. Their guy probably broke the law.

The big fight behind the scenes has been the administration keeping secret a FISA ruling on how the law under which PRISM was being run was being unconstitutionally circumvented.

The illegality likely began under Bush; Obama likely thinks they've cleaned it up.

Which raises an even stranger question. Why is the Obama Administration (again) shielding Bush-era wrongdoing from public scrutiny?

[HardTimes99]

65. It is really and truly bizarre. Even more so than Watergate or Iran-Contra. It makes

me start leaning toward conspiracist-style thought and I don't usually trend that direction.

Maybe it's an illustration of the age-old maxim that 'politics makes strange bedfellows' but I think that maxim's truth begs the question you so rightly pose: Why cover for Bush-era wrongdoing?

[DirkGently]

74. Also, power dynamics work like this.

Ever seen an executive team interact with the board of directors? The executives are certain they're doing everything right, but don't want to "confuse" the board with the details. That just leads to questions and possible curtailment.

Except here, it's Congress, and moreover the people the Executive Branch doesn't want to "confuse," or, as they put it, "mislead."

With the truth, that is.

[Abq_Sarah]

69. Obama likely thinks they've cleaned it up?

You don't really believe this, do you?

[DirkGently]

72. He may think he's done enough, or be unwilling to face the issue.

He can't snap his fingers and fix this, and likely plenty are telling him it's fine-just-fine.

[Abq_Sarah]

73. Since the NSA falls under the DOD

And was created by Truman through an executive order, the President of the United States can certainly change any aspect, including eliminating specific programs if that is his wish. The President is the only one who can do anything. All it takes is a Presidential order.

[JoePhilly]

15. And the haters are on the same side as Ron Paul and Grover Norquist.

What's your point?

[East Coast Pirate]

16. I'm on Al Gore's side.

[davidpdx]

18. What's to say that China won't refuse to extradite him

and instead give him a lucrative job offer and permanent residence in the country.

[giftedgirl77]

77. That would be all fine & dandy

but why would China trust him with anything if he has such a high moral compass & thinks the citizens of a country should know exactly what their gov is up to? China isn't exactly known for their freedom of information values.

At this point I think they are just using him to get whatever info they can from him & once that's done they are going to throw up the dueces & tell him good luck.

[davidpdx]

78. Yes, that could be

Treating him like a pawn would be one strategy they could use. The problem would be then what to do with him. If they didn't let him stay they would either have to extradite him to the US or let him flee to another country.

[sabrina 1]

25. And Ari Fleischer who feels vindicated.

[SidDithers]

27. Great news Snowden defenders, you're on the same side as StormFront...

Pardon Edward Snowden petition
I just asked in the supporters forum if such a petition already exists, then afterwards found one. Please post links to any other petitions for Edward Snowden's pardon. We should sign them all. This is one way that we can protest the creeping invasion of a tyrannical government into our private lives. Edward Snowden is a hero. He should be the head of the NSA.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...owden/Dp03vGYD

Here is his youtube interview - a must see.

Absolutely loved the interview. Signed. BUMP.

Such a calm and well spoken man. Signed. The petition actually seems to be gaining steam quickly.

No, not linking to the site. You can google the thread title "Pardon Edward Snowden petition" and StormFront if you want confirmation.

Sid

[treestar]

33. Now that's a good one!

It is always misplaced to be about people and not issues, the OP does not get that.

[SidDithers]

35. Heheh...

a ridiculous OP taken to its most ridiculous extreme.

Seemed a good way to make the point.

Sid

[Jakes Progress]

36. I'll see your stormfront and raise you a cheney.

Stop the game and decide whether you would have had "poutrage" if you heard the same stuff from cheney and bush. If you defend it under Obama and attack it under bush, you are being hypocritical.

So you defended bush's eavesdropping stuff in the name of national security? I don't remember reading your brave defense of bush back then.

[SidDithers]

37. Woosh...

my comment was only about the dishonest tactic used by the OP, nothing more.

You're reading way more into it than was there.

Sid

[Jakes Progress]

39. Whee.

Still avoiding this, I see.

Do you agree with the actions of the NSA reported?

Would you have agreed with them if bush were in the Oval?

[SidDithers]

40. I'm not avoiding anything...

I had a point to make about the OP, and I made it in my reply.

You chose to ignore that point and venture off in some other direction. I could answer your question, but I'm choosing not to, because it's unrelated to the point I was making in my reply.

Sid

[Jakes Progress]

51. When you avoid something, that's called avoiding.

I can see where it would be convenient to avoid addressing the issue of hypocrisy. It's a trap that partisans often find themselves in, be they batshit crazy republicans or woodchuck democrats. So they just ignore the issue and carry on...and on...and on... and....

[SidDithers]

56. No, it's called staying on-topic...

And not giving in to your attempt to steer the discussion away from the point of my reply.

Sid

[Jakes Progress]

61. You seem to have forgotten the topic. It happens when you avoid things.

This discussion is about the NSA actions. Whether you support them or not is the point of the discussion. I don't support them. Do you?

That is how you stop avoiding things. It takes a little courage and less weaseling, but it does feel good. Try it.

[morningfog]

55. LOL....nt

[SidDithers]

57. Oh look, it's another poster who sides with the fine citizens at StormFront...

See how ridiculous that sounds? Just like the OP.

Sid

[morningfog]

58. LOL....dodge, avoid, distract...nt.

[treestar]

48. Untrue, if you listened and learned, you'd know

that Obama backed off on the warrantless wiretapping, going along with the FISA law and getting warrants for that.

[Jakes Progress]

50. How does this address the issue?

Do you support the current NSA behavior?

[alcibiades_mystery]

28. Sooooooo meta. Threads on DU about DU are super awesome, yo!

[Peregrine Took]

30. Also community college dissing...

Interesting to hear Stephanie Miller, that great moderate librul, repeatedly sneer at Snowden's having attended a community college.

Steph, why not go hang with your new buddies, John Bolton and Peter King?

You might know you are are on the wrong side of the fence when you agree with them.

[SunSeeker]

41. Almost as bad as your "librul" dissing.

Yeah, dissing community colleges may not be cool, but John Bolton and Peter King are not Stephanie Miller's "buddies." It is a ridiculous claim. And no reason to make fun of "libruls."

You might know you are are on the wrong side of the fence when you agree with them.

By your "logic," because you and Glenn Beck and Ann Coulter agree with you on the Snowden issue, you should know "you are on the wrong side of the fence."

[Jakes Progress]

32. We can name evil shits on both sides.

Just decide whether you would have defended george bush for the same thing. If you would complain about bush's actions in this area and not about Obama's, you are a hypocrite.

[stevenleser]

44. That doesnt work either because their actions are not similar.

Bush ignored and thus violated the law (FISA) and Obama renounced that practice and went back to using FISA. FISA provides oversight by both other branches of government.

[Jakes Progress]

52. So you support NSA's actions?

Is that what you are trying to say.

Okay. If you don't, then do Obama a favor and call him on this. He asked you to when he was inaugurated.

If you do, the question becomes whether you would support these actions under bush.

See. Easy. And hard too.

[stevenleser]

59. So, you support Ann Coulter? I can create straw men too.

Is that what you are trying to say? You are an Ann Coulter fan?

Educate yourself first on the history and legal situation with foreign surveillance. I made it easy, I did a show where I explained it all and I provided the transcripts.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022981244

[Jakes Progress]

60. You started the straw men. Are you not keeping up with your threads?

I asked if you supported the NSA actions. You don't seem to be able to say whether you do or not.

That is not a straw man. Saying I support Ann Coulter is creating a straw man.

Play games all you want. Until you can decide (or be told) whether you support the NSA actions, you really don't have any basis for your posts. They are all jumble jumble you are using to avoid saying what you don't want to say.

Educate yourself before you try to educate others.

[stevenleser]

75. You dont know what a strawman means. nt

[Jakes Progress]

81. You don't know what a strawman means. t

You have proven it here.

Oh well. Care to tell us whether you support the NSA actions? Hmmm?

[wandy]

43. Anyone remember this.......

Is there a difference?

[stevenleser]

45. Yes, huge difference

Plame and her husband had perspective. They went out and obtained a full picture of what was going on.

This current scandal and those who broke it or supposedly whistleblew on it ignore(s) the history and legal precedent of foreign surveillance.

[wandy]

49. Most correct. I'm just exploring why some people............

may consider Snowdon a hero, when many of the same people would have gleefully tarred and feathered Robert Novak.

That is the difference I was referring to.

[boilerbabe]

46. yep, rightwing whackjobs and Obama loyalists want his ass on a platter! nt

[LanternWaste]

54. I supported the Clean Air Act.

I supported the Clean Air Act. By a consistent application of your logic, I'm on the side of Nixon, and those who voted against Nixon are pro-pollution.

I imagine it must be really difficult to look at issues, and hence we often substitute them with personalities to allow ourselves the pretense of cleverness. I try to avoid doing that as it would illustrate me as little more than an idiot... but I have no doubt it's different in your case.

[Cha]

66. Great News, Leaker Lovers.. Rick Perry has your

back.

Perry's departure comes a week after he ignited his rhetoric against the Obama administration, likening surveillance activities to what he expects from China.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251311521

'Course the dumbshit knows nothing.

And, China's really impressed with Leaker Snowden..

Arapaho415 @arapaho415

Any questions as to whether #Snowden is a "whistleblower" or traitor? China Daily editorial cartoon. via @ryanlizza pic.twitter.com/bqSzqTRwfF

[DevonRex]

67. And you're cozying up to Glen Beck, Ann Coulter and Stormfront.

Have fun with those assholes.

[yawnmaster]

71. How many sides are there? is there a line or a wall? or a box? explain. eom