Our laws have not caught up with our technology.

[WilliamPitt]

I guess, for me, it comes down to this.

YES, a lot of this NSA spying shit has been going on for many years. I know because I've been writing about it since the PATRIOT Act...and now, all of a sudden, the media and people who should know better are shocked, shocked that such things are going on. On the other side are the people arguing it's no big deal, because it's been going on for years, and besides, it's legal, and Congress has oversight, so chill out.

CONGRESS??? That's supposed to make me feel better? Half the building is packed with outright Christian fascists, and most of the rest of them I wouldn't follow into the water...but they've got the country's back on domestic surveillance, the details of which I'd bet my salary 90% of them don't even begin to understand. Half the guys in the House GOP still light their cigars by banging rocks together, fa chrissake.

Besides all that, flatly, it is a big deal. Our laws have not caught up with our technology, and we gave away far, far too much of ourselves as a nation to the plastic-sheeting-and-duct-tape bedwetters who used fear to win elections and turn a tidy profit off the wars.

The amount of information the government can Hoover up about us today is orders-of-magnitude more than it was when these laws were first passed a decade ago, thanks to the explosion of the digital age (cell phones, social media, etc.). That, among many other things, needs to be addressed.

If this Snowden guy's revelations lead the country to an honest discussion about what has been going on in these Overly-Surveilled States of America for all these years, and if that discussion opens the way to reclaiming at least some of what has been lost, then in my opinion he did the country a service. Even if Greenwald got half his facts wrong, the discussion is happening, which is an absolute good...and if Obama has a sad because that discussion is happening on his watch, he should have applied for a different gig.

[Auggie]

1. "A well-regulated militia ..."

Our laws are ancient

[DonCoquixote]

9. But still good if followed

There is nothing in the Constitution that is outdated, just that the forces attempting to prevent it are, sadly, ancient.

[icarusxat]

26. well put...

[mike_c]

2. rec....

[Hissyspit]

3. Partisan Shifts in View of NSA Surveillance Programs

[ReRe]

24. Well, there's only one reason....

.... that Democrats changed it's stand on the 4th Amendment between 2006 and 2013. I would be in the "unacceptable" column in 2006 AND in 2013.

[shawn703]

25. That says it all in my book

If it's our guy it's okay, if it's their guy then oh the horror!

[LondonReign2]

29. That's a truly depressing chart

That for such a significant number of people--on both sides of the aisle-- the letter after politicians' names are more important than their actions is depressing.

It certainly helps explain the virulent aplogists here.

[In_The_Wind]

4. k & r

[JaneyVee]

5. This is a great point. Lets have a debate about this, and lets modernize FISA.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

6. Well said, my dear Will...K&R.

[elleng]

7. Right, and that's been true for a long time;

think Patents.

[still_one]

8. I disagree . When the patriot act was passed congress knew exactly what they were doing

[msanthrope]

10. Funny how driving down the vote for 2014 won't get people elected who can change that.

You nailed it--it's Congress who have to propose the laws.

[KittyWampus]

11. Yes, Congress. We are a Representative Democracy. So improve the representation, that's the only

solution.

[DCBob]

12. That I agree with.

There needs to be an in depth review and discussion of all these issues and how to deal with them. There are no easy answers to this. Cant put the genie back in the bottle.

[pacalo]

13. What we have is a "Hoover Congress".

I agree with what you wrote.

The Patriot Act & surveillance of American citizens was never alright with me, but it angers me that Obama is getting the heat on this. Bush/Cheney should be in prison.

[cascadiance]

14. I would argue that this has been BY DESIGN by the powerful elites...

... who don't want laws governing what they do with technology now.

I think if we put a body more answerable directly to the people to try and look at how newer laws could be made to apply to today's technology, I think there ARE ways to fix this. It may take a LONG time to get it right and it definitely won't get solved overnight, but with that much neglect over time, one needs to expect that fixing this problem will be a long process, and push back on those that will try to make the excuse that it "can't be done" as an excuse to keep the abusive power structure in place.

Where there has been an interest for the elites to have laws (as in copyright and patent laws) we DO have laws that deal with today's technology. We need a power structure that's working in our interests to fix this not just the elites'!

[wandy]

15. Our society has not caught up with our technology. Consider........

Flirting is part of human nature. Many people flirt, some going so far as to 'show off their stuff'.
Some find it distasteful.
Others have the knack to know what words to say in regards to a well turned ankle.
It is 'new' technology that allows us to 'show off our stuff', Big Time.
Part of our makeup hasn't quite caught on to the fact that we are putting the whole 'package' right out their in front of god, man and everybody.
Sometimes I chuckle when I wonder if the account Anthony Weiner used to 'show off his stuff' ended in .gov

So once again we have been reminded that computers are mindless beasties that can remember many, many things very quickly.
Horses, comparatively mindless beasties can't do that you know.
So once again we have been reminded that computers can be used for ill purpose.
Horses can be used in that manner also.

It's just that part of our social make up has not quite caught on to the similarity.
We will need to do that before we can reach and agree upon a balance between data collection and privacy.
What ever that balance may turn out to be.

[randome]

17. Well said!

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[randome]

16. It's not just the amount of data but also the speed and encompassing nature of it.

Thousands of people's data can fit on the head of a pin.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[1-Old-Man]

18. I'm not too sure its isn't somehow opposite, that technology had led law.

There was, after all, the Church Commission (did I get that right?) and so at one time the mess we see now was simply unacceptable. But it seems to me that by virtue of legislative creep, one thin knife cut at a time, under the influence of not only our growing intelligence community but also the industrial communications mega-network in which we all now try and survive. The laws that make it legal for a Kangaroo Court to rubber-stamp whole scale intrusions into our 4th Amendment Rights did not come into being all by themselves and there sure as hell has never been a public clamor to have them put in place. Who ran on the plank if building a more inclusive surveillance state?

We didn't get where we are because you or I asked for it.

[reformist2]

19. The problem isn't the law per se, it's the database. It shouldn't even exist!

[randome]

27. What database? If Snowden had the unfettered access he claims, why not show us proof?

All he and Greenwald want to talk about is what could happen. They want to frighten us because it gives them the center-stage.

That's what it looks like to me so far.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Major Hogwash]

20. Thou shalt be placed in stocks in the public square until thou has repented publicly.

And then, and only then, thou shalt be proclaimed a "free" man.

[KoKo]

23. "TRUTH" Will....and there are those here who say...But US has ALWAYS DONE THIS...

"Nothing to see there...THEY ARE KEEPING US SAFE!"

Yet, look at the growth of Internet and Web Social Sites and Business use of Skype and other Net Resources that have exploded just since 2008!

Keep on This.... PLEASE!

[timdog44]

28. Without reading all the other posts

and I am remiss in doing that. I have to WilliamPitt, you have hit the nail on the head. Our laws have not caught up to our technology. I think that is true for most every new discovery. The ones we are in now are of a magnitude beyond what has happened in the past that we need to jump shit all over this. But nothing happens fast in DC.