Yes, it does matter to you that the NSA is spying on people?

[kentuck]

I have heard several people say, "No, it doesn't matter with me..."

But, we are giving these people about $80 billion dollars per year to spy on us and others. They do not discriminate - they get everyone.

And they get assistance from the FBI and Homeland Security. There's another $80 billion per year for Homeland Security.

And it doesn't matter to you? At the same time, they are cutting food stamps for the poor and closing schools all over the country. If you are a Democrat, it should matter to you.

[BeyondGeography]

1. You're all over the map

It matters because they're spying on everyone. Except no one can point to exactly how you're being spied on and how it's impacting your life.

So when that doesn't work, it matters because it takes money away from necessary programs.

You are demonstrating why this story isn't getting the traction many thought it would a few days ago.

Fwiw, Rachel led off tonight with immigration reform and then turned to Mike Ellis's Wisconsin meltdown.

[kentuck]

2. Whether he is a traitor or a hero...

It matters to me that we are spending so much money on these types of programs while making cuts that Democrats should be supporting.

It is you that cannot have it both ways.

[George Gently]

13. Do you seriously think that Congress will restore food stamp money

if we stop spending money on these programs?

Your hysteria has overtaken your reason.

[kentuck]

14. The deficit would be cut.

They would need another excuse.

As for this Congress, I do not think anything, nothing, nada, is going to get done until we get rid of John Boehner and his Friends in the House?

[kentuck]

18. Exactly!

The reasons they are making the cuts is because of the huge deficit and debt. There will be no need to cut these necessary programs if the deficit is corrected.

[kentuck]

21. I guess I am just an optimist?

I was thinking that the Democrats would take back the House, and even moreso with a good economy and a shrinking deficit. Silly me.

[Summer Hathaway]

3. Right on all counts. n/t

[BrotherIvan]

4. So you approve?

You don't care that we are spending $80 BILLION dollars on this program and cutting Social Security, Food Stamps, Head Start, Meals on Wheels, Education, heating assistance, and a slew of other programs? You feel this program is more important than all of those? Just want to be clear on your position since you disagree with the OP.

[Life Long Dem]

11. Seems to be only if they cut the FAA.

[treestar]

23. No, that is not what the other poster said

These types of posts are getting sickening.

So you approve of terrorists doing whatever they please? That's about as logical.

[treestar]

29. What has that got to do with the price of eggs in China?

The straw men are getting built so fast there will soon be no straw left.

This is why there is no real discussion of the subject.

So you equally deserve something to the effect you support terrorists. If you're going to keep this up then the same thing can be done to you.

[BrotherIvan]

27. I was asking the other poster to clarify his/her position

Not you.

But you are on this thread saying YOU approve of NSA spying because of terrorist threats. That is what can be inferred from your posts.

[treestar]

31. Straw men again.

Which is why there can be no real discussion of this subject.

I do approve of NSA spying. To a point. You think there should be none? That's a death wish on the country.

[BrotherIvan]

36. You call it straw men and then reiterate the point.

You approve of NSA spying. At least that is the first time those who support it have come out and said it.

[rhett o rick]

5. He appears to be concerned for his privacy. He might not know the extent of the spying

but that doesnt diminish it. Maybe you welcome the comfort of Big Brother watching out for you but some of us dont.

The founders of our country knew the dangers of allowing an authoritarian government to have access to your private affairs and meta-fucking-data.

The story isnt getting any attraction because the authoritarian rulers and their media want to convince people to look over there. Look at Snowden or Greenwald or Manning. Whatever you do, dont look at what OUR GOVERNMENT is doing.

Democracy needs transparency. Authoritarian rule abhors transparency.

[railsback]

6. Our founding fathers had no freakin' idea

what a jet airliner was, nor that an entire world could be connected with the internets or telephone gizmos, whatever the heck those were. Nuclear bombs, C4 explosives, fully automatic machine guns.. things they never could have imagined. Seriously, if this country were born today, do you think they would have written the same Constitution, knowing full well the British, still pissed about getting their asses kicked, wouldn't just let it lie, and had all the access to what we have today? I think not.

[kentuck]

8. Free speech is not about what new technology we communicate with...

...It is about the freedom of the individual to express himself and to have certain guiding principles that do not change with time and technology.

[rhett o rick]

10. I am sorry what? You are saying that our Constitution doesnt apply???

Are you saying that we need less rights because the bad men are sooo much badder? I wont give up my privacy for some whacked out promise of security. If you will, move to Russia.

[railsback]

47. Funny how you would come to such a conclusion

All I'm saying that if this country were founded today, the Constitution would have very little resemblance in wording compared to the one written over 200 years ago.

[kentuck]

19. Ross was known to wander off the trail on occasion. :-)

But he made a lot of sense to a lot of people.

[treestar]

24. True, look at the War Powers Act

Congress having to declare war is a great rule. Until the nuclear age when missiles could come at us faster than Congress could meet.

[VanillaRhapsody]

34. The Internet is not private....

[rhett o rick]

46. What's your point? nm

[damnedifIknow]

39. These are some ways according to a leaked slide

[OnyxCollie]

43. "Except no one can point to exactly how you're being spied on and how it's impacting your life."

That's the RW view you are echoing.

CCR and Guantánamo Habeas Attorneys Believe Government Is Illegally Spying on Them Without a Warrant
Government Refuses to Admit or Deny Targeting the Lawyers
http://ccrjustice.org/newsroom/press-releases/ccr-and-guantánamo-habeas-attorneys-believe-government-illegally-spying-them

New York – Last night, the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR) and co-counsel filed an opposition brief in Wilner v. NSA, a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit on behalf of 24 attorneys who represent detainees at Guantánamo – including CCR staff attorneys Gitanjali Gutierrez and Wells Dixon, as well as law professors and partners at prominent international law firms. These attorneys believe they may have been targeted by the government’s warrantless wiretapping program that began shortly after September 11, 2001 because of their representation of Guantánamo prisoners labeled “enemy combatants” by the government. They seek access to records showing whether the government has intercepted communications relating to their representation of these clients.

“The existence of the spying program inhibits our ability to do our work,” said CCR attorney Gitanjali Gutierrez, a plaintiff in the case. “We sometimes have to warn clients and potential witnesses that their communications with us may be monitored by the government. The NSA program prevents us from assuring them of confidentiality, making clients and witnesses less likely to want to participate in any cases against the government.”

[cherokeeprogressive]

7. There is going to be a major dustup from the EU and others about US spying on THEIR citizens. n/t

[kentuck]

9. Is that bad or good??

Or deserving?

[cherokeeprogressive]

12. Deserving, and on the whole; NOT GOOD. n/t

[jeff47]

15. Probably not. They spy on us.

The most well-known example being France spying on US companies starting in the late 80s.

[treestar]

22. What are they spying for?

What would be the point of spying on people who aren't doing anything?

There have to be some spies or the Russians would take over!

Really, we do need some spooks. They may be weird, but they have their uses. Don't you think that other countries conduct espionage?

Until we all live in a beautiful, peaceful world.

[BrotherIvan]

25. So you're saying we should put aside the Constitution because there are a few bad men?

Do you realize that was the same argument Bushco made?

[treestar]

28. No I said no such thing

And we've had spies for decades. Probably always.

[BrotherIvan]

33. The spiral logic is very confusing

Really, we do need some spooks. They may be weird, but they have their uses. Don't you think that other countries conduct espionage?

Until we all live in a beautiful, peaceful world.

What do you actually mean then? You are disagreeing with the OP and others that the NSA spying program is necessary instead of other social programs. If that statement is incorrect, then it follows, necessarily by the rules of logic, that you do agree with the OP. Which one is it?

[BrotherIvan]

35. You claim others are "hysterical" and yet you jump to that conclusion

Can't I just voice my opposition to the practice and ask that it be stopped?

[BrotherIvan]

40. ..

[AnotherMcIntosh]

42. "What would be the point of spying on people who aren't doing anything?" PROFIT.

Billions. Trillions. Or whatever it is.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

30. But...but...they're protecting our liberties by spying on us....or, something.

Kinda like burning down the village to save it.

[JDPriestly]

37. Yes. It matters to me. I think

this program chills our basic rights and should not continue. I should be ruled against the Constitution.

[DevonRex]

41. Why did everyone accept what Snowden said as fact?

Why did everyone automatically assume nefarious actions on the part of the Administration?

Why is it that those of us with actual experience in the field have been ignored and worse when we've shared what we can, for example that it is impossible for one person to take down the worldwide intelligence network in half a day under any circumstance. It could not be done by one person in any time period, half a day or half a century. Much like one person cannot launch certain weapons systems.

That's not giving anything away. Anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together knows that. You just don't know the procedures that are in place. It also goes without saying that a person cannot simply rewrite code to allow himself access to anything he wants to see.

What's incredibly sad is that a complete unknown was trusted without skepticism or question. What is even worse is that people here have been willing to call their fellow DUers horrible names just for expressing skepticism and asking questions about a complete stranger whose story didn't quite add up. We've been together for years. You never heard of this person before.

[Union Scribe]

44. There are 2 types that don't care.

1. Those who have just given up. They'll take whatever.
2. Those who are hopelessly, immutably partisan. Hacks.

[mick063]

45. As previously mentioned, and to put it in context, many Democratic Senators voted to cut SNAP.

Meanwhile a state of the art "spy on every citizen" center will be constructed in Utah.

Sickening.....isn't it.

Absolutely disgusting.

This NSA security facade is not about collectively protecting us as feeding hungry children would go much further in that regard. This is about handing our tax money to yet a few more "rip off the tax payer" contractors.

Often, I am aligned with the Neo Cons when it comes to hating what our government does. The primary difference between us is that instead of dismantling the government, I aspire to dismantle the ALEC type influence peddlers. The real difference between us is that unlike me, they have given up on government entirely. There are time when I can see their point though...... except the answer is absolutely not in handing the reigns over to the money brokers via privatization. We just gotta fix it and we gotta get aligned with those right wing nut cases on a few critical issues where government has gone totally awry. I think this is an issue that we can get aligned on.