If you're more worked up by whether or not Snowden lied than THAT Clapper lied

[MNBrewer]

your priorities are seriously fucked up.

[cali]

1. that is a very good point. It's about policy not personality

[Cha]

2. Snowden Lied? Say it isn't so.

[sabrina 1]

10. Yes, sex or something, well he will if he hasn't already. They always get

accused of sex crimes. Our intel community is limited in their 'gotcha' techniques. Watch for it, when all other smear tactics fail to distract the public from the government spying on them, they will reveal a sex scandal.

Meantime as the OP points out, we have another Republican in this Democratic Administration (are there no Democrats to fill these positions?) Clapper, former employee of Booz Allen, multi billion dollar 'security' Corporation, lying to Congress, what else is new, a Republican lying to Congress, by some reports he told 13 lies. Isn't that a crime? Or are these people unable to commit what we generally call 'crimes'?

[rhett o rick]

23. It is interesting to see who is lining up to defend a Bush Republican that lied to Congress. nm

[SomethingFishy]

42. Clapper was under oath too...

Not that anyone is going to care. The scandal is all about Snowden now... They will keep on him, until something else happens to divert attention from the story. They've done it before.
Once a different story comes in we will be left to be called tin foil hatters for even talking about this. Then when something else is revealed the supporters will want to know why if we care so much about this, we haven't been screaming about it all along.

[morningfog]

35. Snowden may have lied, but the docs speak for themselves.

Clapper DID lie, and he is the government agent.

[jeff47]

3. The laws regarding classified information screwed him over.

To answer "Yes" would have exposed classified information.

As a result, he could say "No" in public, and correct that in a classified session. Or he could say "Yes" in public and go to prison. Refusing to answer would be the equivalent of saying "Yes" - only the most pedantic would insist it was different.

[ProSense]

5. Not only that, but the hearing was not

about the current data. It was held even before the NSA request for the data being discussed. The fact is that he was being general and evasive in discussing a highly classified program.

[JDPriestly]

8. General and evasive? He said "No," and then qualified it.

The "No" was loud and clear and the qualification was as much a lie as the "No." He lied under oath. Like it or not, he lied under oath. Normally witnesses request to answer such a question in a closed session. I've heard that many, many times in hearings.

He lied. It's pretty impossible to see it any other way.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. "General and evasive" is to lying what "fragrant" is to shit.

[JDPriestly]

16. Right.

[shawn703]

6. People don't seem to understand that point

What kind of gotcha politics are being played when they're holding public hearings where it would be breaking the law to give truthful answers?

[JDPriestly]

9. Normally in such a situation, the witness requests that he may

answer the question in a closed session. That is what he should have done.

[jeff47]

47. Which would be the same as answering "yes".

There's no need to say "no" in closed session.

[Cha]

15. Oh it's GOTCHA but not.

[dkf]

24. Yes Wyden wanted this to be known...

Which goes to the fact that even Senators can't do anything when they see something they think is wrong.

The only way we would EVER know about it is someone like Snowden.

Do you think it should have gone on in perpetuity with the people unaware?

[shawn703]

25. I think if Wyden really wanted to know

He could have asked the question in a forum in which it could have been answered truthfully. If at that point he wanted to disclose it to the American people and face the consequences for doing so, that would be on him.

[dkf]

27. He didn't have the guts that Snowden had. Not many of us do nowadays.

[Cha]

11. Thanks for the clarification, jeff

[sabrina 1]

12. A Republican lying to Congress being defended here on DU.

The deterioration continues. How about we expect truthfulness from those we pay to defend and protect this country?

He could have taken the fifth and avoided lying. Instead his instinct is to lie, because THEY HAVE A LOT TO HIDE. It's really that simple. He needs to go, we have enough lying Republicans in this government and far too many in this administration considering we voted for Democrats to get rid of them.

[jeff47]

49. Perjury traps do not have a political party. (nt)

[sabrina 1]

58. Democrats appoint democrats to positions of power when they are elected. n/t

[jeff47]

63. You seem to think we should follow all the evils of Republicans, just with party labels switched.

[rhett o rick]

22. "The laws regarding classified information"?? What law specifically?

A law that says he cant reveal they are breaking the law? A law that forces him to lie to Congress?

[jeff47]

48. National Security Act of 1947, mostly.

A law that says he cant reveal they are breaking the law?

They aren't breaking the law. They're following the 2010 law.

Illegal activities can't be classified. It says so in the same laws creating the classification system. The problem is lots of people claim something is illegal based on their opinion instead of what the law actually says.

[rhett o rick]

51. But I thought the claim was the activity was legal. How could revealing a legal activity be breaking

the law? Besides it still wouldnt be justification for lying to Congress. Pres Clinton got impeached for lying to Congress over a bj. Clapper, a Bush Republican, lied to hide what they are doing, legal or illegal.

Clapper is an interesting choice for a Democratic President.

[jeff47]

52. Wow....that's a pathetic post.

Seriously, that has to be one of the most pathetic attempts at a "gotcha" I've seen.

The program is legal. The program is also classified. Revealing classified information is illegal.

Thus the act of revealing the program is illegal, even though the program is legal.

Seriously, you can do far better than this.

Besides it still wouldnt be justification for lying to Congress.

Actually, it would. Because there was no action Clapper could take that did not break the law.

Pres Clinton got impeached for lying to Congress over a bj.

That blowjob wasn't classified.

Clapper, a Bush Republican, lied to hide what they are doing

As required by law. And the law also required him to not lie.

[sabrina 1]

59. If they have done nothing wrong, they have nothing to hide. Republicans always have

something to hide. I guess you felt poor Karl Rove was in some kind of perjury trap also. He made similar claims, you know the same old 'national security' excuse. Soon grade school kids will be using that when asked about something they've done wrong 'sorry mom, I can't answer that question for national security reasons'.

What utter nonsense you just posted. They've outed, so it's no longer a secret what they've been up to.

And no one has to lie to Congress, they can take the fifth, it happens all the time. But he didn't, he lies, he's a Republican, what is he doing in a Democratic Administration?

Like I said, it's unreal to watch the defense of Republicans here on DU.

Fuck all Republicans, or is it just Ron Paul on DU? Can we say nice things about Republicans no on DU? Unbelievable the contortions, going so far as to defend Republicans in order to try to defend the indefensible.

[jeff47]

61. Clearly, we need to publish how our nuclear weapons work, right?

All the details should be immediately made public. After all, we did not do anything wrong when making our nuclear weapons, so there's no possible harm in letting the world know how exactly to build one with a minimal amount of nuclear material.

Alternatively, we could realize there are valid reasons for the government to keep secrets.

And no one has to lie to Congress, they can take the fifth

Take more than a 1/10th of a second to think about this.

Why would he need to take the fifth? Because ansering "No" is false, and ansering "Yes" reveals classified information. Thus taking the fifth reveals classified information just as much as answering "Yes".

[LondonReign2]

36. "Or he could say "Yes" in public and go to prison. Refusing to answer would be the equivalent of "

Absolute fucking bullshit. "I cannot comment on that" would have been perfectly neutral.

He chose to lie. Only when he was already caught did he admit the lie. Which is why those of you that believe that the NSA only looks at data when they have a warrant, I have several bridges to sell you.

The lengths people will go to to defend this lying is nauseating.

[jeff47]

50. He would not need a closed session or "no comment" if the answer was "No".

Thus "no comment" or asking for a closed session would be the same as answering "Yes".

[GoneFishin]

54. But it would not have been lying. He chose to lie.

[jeff47]

55. And it would have revealed classified information.

That's kinda the point. Any answer other than "No" sends him to prison for revealing classified information. And answering "No" is lying.

It's called a perjury trap.

The only legal "out" would be to say "No", then correct that in a classified session at some later time. We don't get to see that "Yes".

[GoneFishin]

56. I can't comment on that.

[jeff47]

57. Still says "there's something to comment on". Which means it's the same as "Yes". (nt)

[rhett o rick]

4. The authoritarians among us must show reverence to their authoritarian leaders.

Clapper is a Republican but that doesnt dissuade the apologists among us. They think that if Obama likes him he is golden. But he is a fucking Republican.

We are in a class war between the 1% and the 99%. Clapper represents the 1% and Snowden represents the 99%. So why do nitwits here side with Clapper? Easy, they want sooo badly to be liked by the big bully. They will give up their soul to be included with the cool table. They buy the tinkle down theory and hope they get tinkled on.

What's worse than a Republican? A Democrat that acts like a Republican.

[think]

7. Clap on. Clap off?

[sabrina 1]

13. Exactly. Fuck Clapper! Oh wait, we can't say that because he's in Obama's administration.

Fuck Ron Paul. We can say that though. What's the difference? I say fuck ALL Republicans who support Bush's policies.

Clapper is a Republican who unlike Paul, supports all of Bush's policies. What is he doing in the position of Director of Intelligence in this Democratic Administration?

[pnwmom]

17. I'm more worked up that Snowden is handing over classified documents to the Chinese.

But what did anyone expect when he ran off to Hong Kong?

[SunSeeker]

20. +1

[LondonReign2]

37. Except that there is no evidence of that

But, please, continue your sock puppetry

[pnwmom]

41. The evidence is all over the Chinese newspaper.

If you think the government can't read that -- and won't take further action -- you're delusional.

[LondonReign2]

43. He told the Chinese that we spy on their citizens

Civilian. Not governmental, not military.

Not that you'll let facts stop you.

[pnwmom]

46. He told them we spy on "Chinese University and public officials, businesses,

and students in the city." And also unspecified targets on the mainland.

But don't let the facts stop you.

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1259508/edward-snowden-us-government-has-been-hacking-hong-kong-and-china

Snowden said that according to unverified documents seen by the Post, the NSA had been hacking computers in Hong Kong and on the mainland since 2009. None of the documents revealed any information about Chinese military systems, he said.

One of the targets in the SAR, according to Snowden, was Chinese University and public officials, businesses and students in the city. The documents also point to hacking activity by the NSA against mainland targets.

Snowden believed there had been more than 61,000 NSA hacking operations globally, with hundreds of targets in Hong Kong and on the mainland.

“We hack network backbones – like huge internet routers, basically – that give us access to the communications of hundreds of thousands of computers without having to hack every single one,” he said.

[Douglas Carpenter]

18. Will Clapper be prosecuted for lying to Congress? Some how I doubt it.

[KharmaTrain]

30. Not If He Did So...

...to protect a confidential program in an open hearing. Now if he had lied in a closed session...that's another matter...

[Spitfire of ATJ]

19. I don't care about either one....

Maybe because I noticed all of this bumped all the talk of background checks off the news.

....Oh,...and U S bridges falling down,...falling down,...falllling dowwwn....U S bridges falling down, my fair amnesiac...

[SunSeeker]

21. Exactly. I'm more concerned about what is happening to abortion rights.

The Republicans want to force the 32,000 women who get pregnant each year as a result of rape to carry that pregnancy to term. They want to cut food stamps to poor kids. They want to privatize our schools and all our prisons. That has me way more upset than anything the NSA did.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

32. It's funny watching Americans flip out....

They claim the government has no right to know anything about them,...on their Facebook page.

[ForeignandDomestic]

38. Well....

Instead of Facebook they could always vent about it to their friends over the phone....... oh wait!!!

[Spitfire of ATJ]

39. Or, they could eliminate all records the government has on them...

Of course that means giving up their social security, their job, their house, their car,....their hunting license...

[xiamiam]

33. and you don't see a connection to these other things that concern you?

[SunSeeker]

45. Yes, they're connected in the sense that Republicans wrote these laws.

Yet we are bashing Obama and the Dems for the surveillance laws the Republicans wrote and championed, which will depress the Dem vote in 2014, assuring us of more Republicans in government, and more horrid anti-abortion, anti-voting rights, anti-environment, anti-4th Am laws on the books.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

40. You have to admit, the Republicans are a laugh riot....

They're whole campaign is:

[font size="5"]"Vote Republican:
Because Democrats can't stop what we started."[/font]

[Skidmore]

28. Let me put this out there.

I'm sick of being jacked around by everyone in this society from these boards to the very top of the human food chain. Is it too much to ask that people just be decent with each other?

[darkangel218]

31. Yes.

As time has proven, we're not capable to be "decent with each other".

Sad but true.

[xchrom]

29. Du rec. Nt

[morningfog]

34. Succinct and to the point.

[forestpath]

44. K&R

[Octafish]

53. Clapper got the questions the day before.

He knew he was lying.

The Senators gave him a chance to correct the record. He did not.

That is called perjury when a Democrat does it.

[Major Hogwash]

60. Clapper is not hiding out in China.

What was that you said about priorities?

[MNBrewer]

64. Why would he?

At this point he's got the power of the Surveillance State on his side. Will he be prosecuted for perjury? Of course not, even though it's on tape. He'll get away with his crimes, just like the Bush Administration did.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

65. You really like this guy Clapper, don't you?

What is it that causes you to defend a guy who lied to the Congress?

[WillyT]

62. K & R !!!