Is rape OK in the military because

[leftyladyfrommo]

women aren't supposed to be there in the first place so they just deserve what they get? Like what on earth did they expect?

Rape usually means someone seriously hates women.

That probably wouldn't hold true for the kind of rapes they are having in India where women are gang raped to death. I don't know what causes that. It's beyond bizarre.

[Buzz Clik]

1. Rape is not OK in the military.

I expect some snarky reply, but this is my only comment on this thread.

[niyad]

2. given this latest I wonder

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251311230

[closeupready]

3. Men in the military get raped, too.

On edit, it just amazes me that so many people - here and elsewhere - still neglect to acknowledge that men can also be raped in the anus just like a woman can.

Are men who have been so violated supposed to laugh it off as a prank, or youthful hijinks? 100% serious question.

[Aerows]

8. Sexual abuse

and sexual assault are awful no matter who experiences it, and you will never see me say that either sex should take priority in preventing it, because NO ONE should be forced to endure it while serving our country. I hope that clarifies my position.

[closeupready]

11. The threadstarter's assumption was that rape happens to women only.

I'm not picking on him/her, but just pointing out the frustration I feel about these endless discussions that a violent sexual assault harms women more than men, or is more serious when it happens to women than when it happens to men.

Peace.

[liberal_at_heart]

13. It should never be assumed that only women get raped. But I think the poster does bring up a good

question. Of the women that get raped, is the reason they get raped because the men who rape them and the commanders that let it happen don't want women in the military and are they trying to get those women to leave?

[closeupready]

16. Right, that is a good question. And I support Gillibrand's attempt

to make the military more accountable for sexual assaults.

[stevenleser]

4. I think that is how some on the conservative right think. They really dont want women in the

military anyway, with the possible exception being the old 1940s/1950s era WAC/WAVE/WASPS/SPARS roles.

I think much of the trivializing of rape in the military is part of an effort by the old school to make the military an unattractive choice for women.

[BainsBane]

6. and Carl Levin?

He's the one who dropped the provision taking the decision to prosecute out of the chain of command

[stevenleser]

7. No, I think there is something else going on there. nt

[Aerows]

10. If we are at the point

where bills are so convoluted that we can't prevent our servicemen and women from getting justice after being sexually assaulted, the something going on is far worse than protecting our servicemen and women. It starts in Congress, and this gladhanding that it's a bipartisan problem is overshadowed by a Democrat, Carl Levin, that dropped the measure.

This excusing of Democrats that act like Republicans is entirely out of hand.

[stevenleser]

14. You see the response at #9 from Pelican. This is the belief by some folks, that Commanders

should not be locked out of the process.

I do not agree, but I understand the thoughts behind it. The chain of command is very important in the military. I vigorously object to allowing commanders to set aside the conviction of ANY crime when their own advising counsel are against it. Both of the high profile cases where commanders set aside rape convictions were done over the express objection of the commanders' own staff judge advocates.

I think folks like Sen. Levin think that the change of taking legal action completely out of the chain of command is too big of a step. They think it has the potential to undermine what the military likes to call "good order and discipline". That is different from the motivation of old school types who I think are deliberately allowing these things to happen to push women out of the military.

Right now, a military person's commander is at the center of every disciplinary measure and that fits in a way because that is to whom each person ultimately reports, their commander. The military could have had things continue that way, but they screwed up military justice in the case of sexual assault so now there needs to be a sea change.

[liberal_at_heart]

5. they are not taking the authority out of the hands of the commanders.

Apparently both republicans and democrats think rape in the military is okay.

[Pelican]

9. Authority should remain with the commanders....

... with legitimate alternatives if nothing is acted on or the investigation is improperly conducted.

[liberal_at_heart]

12. They have proven they cannot be trusted to handle the authority.

They either think what is happening is okay or they're simply incompetent. Either way the authority should not be with the commanders.

[ljm2002]

15. India has a long history of gang rapes...

...rent the movie "Bandit Queen" for a dramatized version of a true life story of a woman who was gang raped and killed her attackers, and later became a member of the Indian Parliament.

[DURHAM D]

17. No. It is worse than that.

The other day I heard Senator Gillibrand say that the current command structure is protecting serial sexual predators.


My next thought was - What can one expect from an institution that enthusiastically recruited criminals, gang members and white supremacists for at least a decade?

The military is now full of this type and they have risen in rank.

To fix the problem would require admitting this original sin. It won't happen.

Senator Levin is actively protecting them.

[leftyladyfrommo]

18. What made me think of this was

back in the 60's I was in the School of Anthropology at the U of Utah. Women were not welcome in anthropology. That was a man's field. Quite a few women made it through the BA program but routinely got wiped out at eh Msters and Doctorate levels.

How? It was easy. The men just made it impossible for the women to continue.

I remember the one woman who had the nerve to go out into the field on archeology digs. The men were horrible to her. You simply cannot succeed if everyone else gangs up against you.

Women aren't welcome in the fighting army. Just like women have trouble making it in police work - although there are more and more women cops. A lot men think women are not strong enough to be good soldiers. They put everyone else in danger.

I don't really think that's true. There are a lot of women that are strong enough and tough enough to be soldiers and they are soldiers in lots of armies in other countries.

[Savannahmann]

19. Why wouldn't it hold true?

A Rapist tends to think of women as needing punishment, or being property. We destroy our property all the time. From the man who throws things at his TV, to the image of someone beating a car with a bat. Why would raping a woman to death be merely a more extreme case of serious issues with women?

[leftyladyfrommo]

20. Stupid bitch shouldn't be here.

She deserves everything she gets.

Guys with that attitude just scare me to death.

[davidn3600]

21. For the most part, yes. And it starts early in boot camp

But this isn't just an American thing. This is an issue for not only every military in the world today, but through all human history. Civilian women have always been viewed as a sexual prize for conquering armies. The Bible even says that it is OK for one to rape and pillage towns you conquer. Rape during war is very common. It's a method of asserting power, fear, and control over the population.

And it starts early in boot camp. A popular method of drill instructors for ions is to sling homophobic and misogynistic slurs to demean and break down the men. It instills the idea that femininity is inferior and unwanted. It builds up a particular trait that is believed to be required for a strong military. Masculinity, loyalty, discipline, and conformity.