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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsLeaked: NSA's Talking Points Defending NSA Surveillance
Let's dig in on a few of the points, starting with the business records/FISA issue:
The news articles have been discussing what purports to be a classified, lawfully-authorized order that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISA Court) issued under an Act of Congress the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). Under this Act, the FISA Court authorized a collection of business records. There is no secret program involved here it is strictly authorized by a U.S. statute.
"There is no secret program here"? Bullshit.
Why, then, have so many people, both in the Congress and the public been shocked at the extent to which the NSA is snarfing up data? This is a secret program, enabled by a secret interpretation of the FISA Amendments Act, by the FISA Court, which the DOJ and the NSA insist the public is not allowed to know. Yes, it's a secret program. Saying otherwise is simply lying.
It authorizes only metadata collection, which includes barebones records such as a telephone number or the length of a call.
"Barebones records" and "metadata" are terms being used to play down the extent of the collection of info, but it ignores multiple reports that note the amount of data actually collected -- including phone numbers, call times, call location, among other things -- is more than enough to identify who someone is and a variety of important characteristics about that person.
This legal tool, as enacted by Congress, has been critical in protecting America. It has been essential in thwarting at least one major terrorist attack to our country in the past few years.
"At least one" is a lot less than the "dozens" NSA boss Keith Alexander recently stated. But, so far the only "one" identified, involving an attempted NYC Subway bombing was shown not to have needed this data collection program to uncover and stop. So, nope.
Despite what appears to be a broad scope in the FISA Courts order, the Intelligence Community uses only a small fraction of a percent of the business records collected to pursue terrorism subjects.
This is meaningless. That's like saying, even though we search everyone's house illegally, we only actually arrest a small number of people. No one would allow such house searches under the 4th Amendment, so why is it okay with phone records?
All three branches Congress, the Courts, and the Executive Branch review and sign off on FISA collection authorities. Congress passed FISA, and the Intelligence Committees are regularly and fully briefed on how it is used.
Except many in Congress have made it clear they did not review this kind of program, or were led to believe that the NSA did not collect this kind of information. And those who are being briefed now say the program goes way beyond what they were told. And, those who did know about it beforehand, tried to dig deeper into the program, but were blocked.
As for "the Courts" reviewing it,
we're talking about the FISA Court which is a rubberstamp in black robes, having approved every single request of it for the past three years. It last rejected a request back in 2009, and that was only one out of 1320. In its entire history, since 1979, the court has rejected a grand total of 11 applications. 11. Out of 33,939 applications. That's 0.03%. Not 3%. 0.03% with not a single rejection in over three years. That's not careful review. That's a rubber stamp. As for the executive branch signing off on it, what do you expect? They're going to hold back their own ability to spy on people?
The FISA Court authorizes intelligence collection only after the Intelligence Community has proven its case, based on underlying facts and investigations.
Well, we already covered the rubber stamp issue above, but Section 215 of the Patriot Act requires that the government present a case that the data it is seeking "must be relevant to an authorized preliminary or full investigation to obtain foreign intelligence information not concerning a U.S. person or to protect against international terrorism or clandestine intelligence activities."
I'd love to see the argument that all data is somehow relevant to the investigation. Of course, I can't see it, because it's secret.
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130613/17490723465/leaked-nsas-talking-points-defending-nsa-surveillance.shtml
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)On the current trajectory, they won't need to explain anything in a couple more years.
"Good citizen, there are some things it is better not to question."
There is a certain irony that in fleeing the gathering totalitarianism evidenced by the NSA activities, Snowdon went to -- China.
villager
(26,001 posts)n/t
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Wonder how they get these talking points so quickly?
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Knowledge? Have you heard before the revelation of Snowden about phone records being profiled for possible terrorist connections?
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)But you might want o come out from under the bed. Commies are gone, and terrorists will as well.
And have you ever heard of old fashioned police work?
This is not about terrorists. But hey, if that makes you feel better, Osama bin Ladin won.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Name after the next terrorist attack. No, the terrorist are nit gone, there will be mire attacks and I am not under a bed, eyes wide open. Maybe you do like talking points but as you also have talking points so do others.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Surrender your rights for some security...well you know what? You deserve neither.
Also they had the shiny needle pointed to them twice...by the FSB in that hay...and they still missed that needle.
So that is a poor argument at best.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Which may be collected on my use of services. Again you just might limit your ability to participate in communication services but this gathering of data which I understand is available whether gathered by NSA or any other source.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)to give up any of the rights enshrined in the US Constitution.
No elected official should should ever be caught dead making such a suggestion. Considering the oath they take, which has one requirement of them, ONE: To Defend and Protect the US CONSTITUTION in accordance with that Constitution's 4th Amendment which is crystal clear, as Al Gore said today.
The current Bush program violates that Amendment in so many ways it boggles the mind that anyone who took their oath seriously were in their right mind when they approved of it, or did not speak out about it.
All the rest, the NSA Talking points, the attempts to justify it are nothing more than an attempt to justify the indefensible.
We have actual laws in place, a justicial system, that can deal with the government getting a legitimate warrant. The secret FISA court 'warrants' unless they included probable cause of wrong doing on millions of Americans, are illegal according to the 4th Amendment.
I don't see the difficulty some people are having with this.
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)I've heard each and every one of them from certain DUers.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Good propaganda technique to keep repeating the lie.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Some folks as to the manipulation? Me neither.
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)...some are PRO-Authoritarian yet nonSENSEical, don't CHAknow.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)These people remind me of bushies oh c 2003-4.
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)...equals goosestep.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)Of the most zealous BOrGers who are spewing the talking points Canadian? How could they be paid? If I were on the other side of the border, I would be afraid this cancer would grow, if it hasn't consumed them already.
I think it really is just a few unhinged people who can't, or won't see the truth, that this lovely man, who is so good with babies, and who promised so much, should ever be questioned in any way. They can't see past that one fact. So many now are trying to point out that this isn't about Obama. This isn't about embarrassing him in Palm Springs. This isn't poutrage and hysteria as they love to call it. This is citizens standing up for their RIGHTS. Why do they hate that?
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)I'm from France... and I'm going to steal your girlfriend.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)Thanks for making my day!
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)in their elections to put Right Wingers in office (I have wondered why some of them do not discuss their OWN elections) who most likely have their own means of 'catapulting the propaganda'.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)pacalo
(24,721 posts)at a time when the Hooverites in congress are demanding cuts to vital progams that the most vulnerable citizens depend on.
This trumps any excuse tbey can dream up for watching out for the "what-ifs". I'm not hearing much at all about the obscene amount of money being thrown into this while we're supposed to have a deficit problem.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom