NSA vs Snowden -- Follow the Money

[kentuck]

Some of the oldest advice we might find, when we are looking for someone with a motive for doing something wrong or illegal, is to "follow the money". Who has the most to gain and who has the most to lose?

As far as we know, Edward Snowden has not received any great compensation for blowing the whistle on the spying program of the NSA. He gave up a good paying job and a good life in Hawaii and may be in custody at any moment. Except to satisfy his personal narcissism, it is difficult to see where he benefits?

But the NSA has a lot to lose. The Agency is presently receiving about $80 billion per year from the taxpayers of this country. They work closely with the Carlyle Group, who have been involved in Saudi Arabia and the Middle East for several decades. They, in turn, contract their work out to folks like Booz-Allen, whom Snowden was employed with until this earth-shaking incident.

It is an incestuous relationship whereby officers of Booz-Allen and others work their way into the NSA and then, after they built up their infrastructure of connections within the government, they then move back into the contracting business, and one of their friends then move back into the leadership of the NSA.

Over the last 25 years, we have seen the Carlyle Group, under the leadership of Cap Weinberger, and with folks like George HW Bush on their Board, receive much of the government payola. They were also the parent company of Booz-Allen.

But the "war on terror" brought new opportunities for these contractors. With the assistance of John Poindexter, a computer information analyst from the Reagan Administration, they created the Total Information Awareness program. They wanted to "own the Internet".

So there was money to be made with the new "war on terror". Eventually they would be able to collect information on everyone. They would be able to catch the terrorists before they were able to act by connecting all the information. They received more and more government largesse. Their payroll got larger and larger as they hired more and more analysts, like Snowden.

But they could not produce the results that they promised. The centerpiece of their several years of spying and collecting information was the capture of the NYC subway bomber. But even that is under question. They have little to show for all the money they have received.

Naturally, they want to keep that money coming in. More than national security, it is about personal wealth for the cadre of political scam artists that gather government contracts. The fact that they were such a failure is the biggest secret of all.

Edward Snowden had very little "real" intelligence to give anyone. Phone numbers and email addresses and Internet communications were not as valuable as they thought for intelligence gathering. But the money they made from collecting this information was very valuable.

That is the secret they did not want exposed. Many in the NSA and the contracting business stand to lose a lot of money if the truth is known. This whole episode is not about national security. It is about scamming the American taxpayers. That is why everything is a secret. That is what Edward Snowden has exposed.

[WillyT]

1. K & R !!!

[flamingdem]

2. It's very expensive to live in Hong Kong

Who do you think is supporting him?

[RC]

25. Expensive to live in Hong Kong?

Not for these people.

http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/real-estate/photos-life-hong-kong-tiniest-apartment-article-1.1273112

[flamingdem]

26. wow, the US is going that way as well

all these new 400 square ft apts being built w high rent

I expect Eddie is enjoying a nice apartment somewhere..

[ljm2002]

28. I'm guessing that he has some money of his own...

...he's only been there for a few days so far, and he was making a damned good salary. Now of course he's not independently wealthy, and even savings from a good salary will only get you so far for so long. But for right now, I don't think his going to HK means that someone else is supporting him.

[BrotherIvan]

41. Oh FFS

[cantbeserious]

3. As Always The Oligarchs Must Be Served With Billions In Government Contracts - The People Be Damned

eom

[KittyWampus]

4. Sorry, I abhor the billions going into the NSA & its contractors but your OP doesn't make sense.

Who knows what the reason is for Snowden's exaggerations and/or outright lies.

But framing this as Snowden v. NSA is ludicrous.

The timing of this whole thing stinks as Obama was meeting with the Chinese.

Yeah, there's some large sweet chunks of pork involved. But Snowden's connections aren't fully known. Not by anyone posting on DU.

[kentuck]

5. You're entitled to your opinion.

I gave you mine.

[xiamiam]

15. snowden has already accomplished at least one thing..no matter how much you rail against him

we are having this discussion as are millions of people around the country and globe. In my opinion, that is a great service to us. Its unconstitutional or it wouldn't have needed to be done in secret. The monster that the NSA has become and watching both Clapper and Mueller lie about it is front page news. Would it have been last week? No. America is going to have this discussion whether you like it or not and its going to be about the NSA as wel as l executive overreach. Stomping your feet and letting us all know in every thread how much you distrust Snowden is not going to stop it. Might as well come up with some solutions to contribute to the problem facing all Americans.

[pnwmom]

6. "as far as we know." How would we know if any payment has been made or promised? n/t

[kentuck]

8. I don't know.

Maybe he was paid a nice sum by the Washington Post and the Guardian? As far as we know, he did not do it for money. At least, I have not read anything to that effect, have you?

[pnwmom]

9. No, nothing but speculation. But we know that he went to Hong Kong several months ago,

so it is certainly possible that he planned this, along with the Chinese, well in advance. I doubt that part of any plan would be to inform the media of any financial arrangement with the Chinese.

But again, I'm just saying there's no way to know. So I wouldn't assume anything -- including that there was no payment, just because we haven't heard of it.

[kentuck]

10. Also...

I think I read someplace that he speaks Chinese. Who knows? Maybe he has a Chinese girlfriend? Maybe he wanted to break up with the ballerina in Hawaii? There is much we do not know about Mr Snowden, I would admit. But, in my opinion, the story is about more than Edward Snowden, however much he would like for it to be about him.

[tavalon]

12. The story isn't about Snowden at all

It's the secret secrets that aren't secret anymore and what other secrets that need to not be secrets anymore are still secret? Many "S" words but not a one is Snowden.

Oh, I forgot, it's also about who knew what and when did they know it?

[pnwmom]

13. You're right -- the story is about much more than Edward Snowden.

And always has been. That's why I objected to his being made a kind of hero. The issues are the point -- not Edward Snowden.

It's possible for a louse to accidentally do good and for a good person to make the wrong choice.

[reusrename]

30. What is so objectionable about making him a hero?

I understand we don't know a lot about him, but what he did in this specific case was heroic.


Are you afraid he may turn out to be another Kai the hatchet-wielding hitchhiker?


If that's your only objection, then I sort of agree with you, but it isn't an all-encompassing concern of mine.

[pnwmom]

31. We don't know enough about him. If he did this for fame and fortune

(intending to sell his cache of thousands of classified documents) to the Chinese, or to the highest bidder, then he's no hero.

[Monkie]

34. fame and fortune? im sorry but the stupidity is breathtaking

where is your curiosity about the programs, the spying, the 80 billion dollar industry.
why is anyone even interested in snowden or turning him into a celebrity, he does not seem interested in that himself.

and this claim of intending to sell his cache of documents is the stupidest comment i have ever seen given the context, even if i drowned myself in koolaid while sticking my head so far in the sand it would pop up in china i could not think of a comment as stupid as this.

if he wanted to sell the documents he could and would of sold them already, secretly, and been able to live a life of luxury in peace and quiet without anyone knowing, he could of just waited for his latest assignment to end, and taken his girlfriend with him. it makes NO sense.

[pnwmom]

42. A person with a grandiose personality wouldn't have been happy living in obscurity.

And by his own statements he's shown much evidence of that.

Why didn't he remain anonymous? That's a whole separate issue from whether he expects to gain financially from his actions.

[Monkie]

43. he spoke for less than 12 minutes, how much was about him?

i'm sorry but you seem more interested in fame than he does with all your posts, what has he said that was actually about him except to say he is not a hero just a regular guy?
you seem to have quite the imagination there, he, and most of his supporters say its not about him, the only people that want to make it about him are those that seem to love the NSA spying on them..
and the only reason you and those people want to make it about him is because you are scared.
if you can make it about him you can attempt to destroy him.
and then you can go back to pretending you are free and live in a democracy.

[VanillaRhapsody]

27. You haven't seen any evidence he's put forth to support his claims either....yet you believe every

word he says...

[kentuck]

29. No, I do not believe every word he says...

If I did, I would not have written this opinion.

[jsr]

7. Recommended

Yes, it's all about money and power.

[tavalon]

11. My favorite is that Snowden was a low level know nothing

It's completely a tangent and that's annoying. But really, as a tangent, it doesn't work because he had pretty high level clearance so "low level know nothing" holds no water.

[xiamiam]

14. yes provoking and perpetuating a never ending war on terror for profit...obscene .

many are beginning to see thru this charade. Its so despicable and anti human much less anti American..and don't forget, its all being paid for with our taxes or money borrowed against our future taxes. The 20 and under generation have never known a life without this bs. That makes me very sad.

[DirkGently]

16. "Bigger than TARP and the New Deal."

The U.S. is no stranger to this dilemma. In response to security concerns after 9/11, Americans witnessed the growth of a massive domestic security apparatus, fueled by federal largesse. According to Tomdispatch's Mattea Kramer and Chris Heilman, post-9/11 federal spending on homeland security exceeds $790 billion. That's larger than TARP and, when adjusted for inflation, the New Deal.
Exactly how much the U.S. has spent on domestic surveillance is murky. Municipalities aren't particularly keen on sharing how many cameras they've installed. And homeland security grant funding, in many cases, does not require a line-item accounting of how cities have used federal funds.
Nevertheless, U.S. investment has helped fuel the growth of a global video surveillance industry. According to a 2011 report by Electronics.ca Publications, a market research firm, the video surveillance market was slated to grow from $11.5 billion in 2008 to $37.5 billion in 2015.

http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2013/04/26/video-surveillance-boston-bombings/

Big money is now driving the domestic surveillance bus.

[railsback]

17. And we all keep creating The Snowden out of our own imaginations

What do we really know? Hero? Villain? Spy? The hair on fire hero worship crowd seems to think the government is spying on every single person, which, of course, goes in the duct tape your windows stupid as fuck category. The Villain crowd seems to believe that Snowden had access to all kinds of secret things, which Snowden claimed, but apparently he didn't and was just embellishing his importance. And the Spy crowd have him pegged as a Chinese spy, who ran off to his adopted country for protection. So who's supporting him now, since he's already maxed out his credit cards? The NSA could easily find out if there was domestic support, so that's out of the question. Obviously, he's on the Chinese payroll right now.

One thing EVERYONE can agree on is that Snowden is fucked. Seems like it was a really stupid thing to do, 'exposing' what most people presumed was going on, anyways. The FICA Act passed a long time ago, which pretty much broadened the NSA's power. Was everyone masturbating too much to notice? Just assumed it went away on its own? C'mon.

[Bonhomme Richard]

18. The notion, by some, that he worked with the Chinese on this is plain dumb.

The last thing the Chinese would want if they were working with an insider at the NSA would be for that person to show up on their doorstep.
That is really silly and a convoluted stretch. Think about it. If they had an insider at the NSA they would want him to stay put. The idea that they would lose an asset just to embarrass the President is ridiculous.

[NRaleighLiberal]

19. It is always about money at some level. n/t

Power and greed - human beings seems to have quite an inherent flaw in these areas.

[timdog44]

20. We do not know anything about Snowden.

We are in supposition land. I am getting to the point that I don't care about him, just stay out of America. I think we are in supposition land when it comes to the NSA, etc. I mean, we know that surveillance has gone on for years if not decades. We do know that the surveillance has been out sourced to the highest bidder. Yes, read that right, highest bidder. And those bottom feeding scumbag mercenary spies need to be outed and vanished. We need patriots to do our surveillance who are accountable to appropriate leaders.

The real issue here is that the people we elected to protect the constitution of the United States of America have failed miserably. And in some instances intentionally. That is the follow the $$$$ scenario. What all this is about is what should we do surveillance on and what should we not do? And how do we control it? And what do we do about the people in DC who are suppose to watch out for you and I? Half or more of the senators did not attend a meeting today to here about this NSA issue. Only 47 attended and Rand Paul walked out during the briefing. This is about what do we do about these so called representatives? And they are suppose to be the intelligent, level headed branch of the congress.

[intaglio]

21. Pretty much agree with this take on the matter

Just a couple of questions.

1) I believe that Snowden was employed on short term contract and was not permanently employed by the contractor. Does this not change the narrative of him being in a "well paid job"?

2) The WP like any paper of record would be very suspicious of unsolicited free stories of this nature. I believe they were under a little pressure because of the deadline after which Snowden claimed he would go to another paper. Because of this just how certain are we that no payment was made?

[kentuck]

40. As to whether or not Snowden was paid by the Post and/or the Guardian?

I think both papers should make that information public. The people have a right to know that fact, in my opinion.

[Catherina]

22. They're getting other returns we haven't been discussing

detailed reports for the military and our allies' militaries to know exactly where to bomb, who to kill, which local resources are the most valuable to seize

- reports on every single politician around the world so they know exactly who can be blackmailed

- reports on how to best destabilize countries like Venezuela, Syria after hacking into sensitive government communications

- industrial trade secrets all over the world after hacking into research facilities and universities

- scientific discoveries and programs

- space research

intellectual property theft,

industrial espionage

...etc... etc...

and detailed reports on all of it

Think about....

As you astutely pointed out, their excuse of pumping increasing amounts of money into it to fight terror is a laughable excuse and private contractors etc stand to lose a lot of money if this is stopped but the titans benefiting from all this are getting their money's worth, especially on the international scene. This is a massive, massive monster with tentacles everywhere.


Keeping tabs on private citizens is just an added benefit they threw in later when it became obvious people in this country are very unhappy and beginning to rise up.

[Swede Atlanta]

23. Thank you....

You have eloquently described the "money" component to the spying scandal.

Once you have private contractors involved, or don't limit the cross-over of private to public and public to private movements of key individuals the game is up.

It is no longer related to the original government purpose, legitimate or not. It is now about sucking at the public teat for billions.

The same individuals who don't like Obamacare, etc. love the idea of the secret security apparatus.

[MrScorpio]

24. Beautiful assessment, my man

Simply beautiful.

[kentuck]

32. Thanks, MrScorpio.

kick one time.

[nashville_brook]

33. k an r

[sabrina 1]

35. I don't think there's any doubt about it. And I agree with, THAT is the 'secret' they are

trying to keep. That none of it is about our security at all, it's all about profits.

There are probably memos they are worried about, selling the data they are collecting to businesses, which is I am sure is the real reason for the need to 'store' all that information.

[lindysalsagal]

36. This brings clarity to all of the opposing propaganda. Makes alot of sense. n/t.

[watoos]

37. There will be no Congressional investigations,

nothing is going to change. The Carlyle Group is still going to make tons of money off terrorism. What did happen though is that Obama was weakened, just as he was meeting with the Chinese. Obama can't look weak now, hence the involvement into Syria. Lastly, Obama is weakened right before the G8 summit which happens to be held in Britain where the press is blasting Obama. This surveillance has been going on before 9/11

[ReRe]

38. K&R

Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. More. More. More. More. More.

[cali]

39. this is a really fine op, kentuck

I think it's fair to say that what Snowden highlighted was the fascist relationship between private corporations and the government when it comes to national security.