Serena Williams speaks on Steubenville rape victim, questions her decisions

[The Straight Story]

If you're a famous athlete, one of the key things you should learn is just to avoid talking on any hot button topic. Serena Williams has been a professional since 1995, so she's been around the block with the media a time or two.

Yet she still has those moments that make you just shake your head.

One happened in her recent Rolling Stone interview. Williams talked with Stephen Rodrick and let a few things fly, with the most puzzling being her take on the Steubenville rape case.

If you aren't familiar, a 16-year-old girl who was passed out from alcohol was raped by two high school football players on August 12, 2012. The incapacitated victim was photographed and assaulted in a horrible situation that made national news for months. The football players were both found guilty of rape in March and for some reason Williams started talking about this story during her interview.

Here is the excerpt from the article, courtesy of Deadspin:

We watch the news for a while, and the infamous Steubenville rape case flashes on the TV—two high school football players raped a 16-year-old, while other students watched and texted details of the crime. Serena just shakes her head. "Do you think it was fair, what they got? They did something stupid, but I don't know. I'm not blaming the girl, but if you're a 16-year-old and you're drunk like that, your parents should teach you—don't take drinks from other people. She's 16, why was she that drunk where she doesn't remember? It could have been much worse. She's lucky. Obviously I don't know, maybe she wasn't a virgin, but she shouldn't have put herself in that position, unless they slipped her something, then that's different."

Seriously what is the point of Serena bringing this up, even if she really believes it? Williams didn't go out of her way to blame the 16-year-old victim, but to question her judgment even a little in a case like this is inexcusable.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/tennis-busted-racquet/serena-williams-speaks-steubenville-rape-victim-questions-her-212112851.html

[Whisp]

1. what a moron. who is she? nevermind, I don't care. n/t

[ohiosmith]

2. She's an idiot!

[JustAnotherGen]

3. She needs to stop talking now

And go hit a little green ball with a racket.

[Iggo]

4. Idiot.

Hit ball with stick.

Shut the the fuck up.

[Gravitycollapse]

5. No one ever said playing tennis requires intelligence.

[Mike Daniels]

51. I would argue that most sports require some intelligence to play well

Last edited Wed Jun 19, 2013, 04:28 PM - Edit history (1)

However, I will say that most celebrities/atheletes would be better off not speaking off the cuff about anything not related to their profession if they don't want to come across as a moron as Williams did here.

[October]

6. Idiot.

[BlueJazz]

7. If I were a Woman, I'd like to slap her across the face for being such a cruel person.

[Dawson Leery]

8. Perhaps this is one dingbat, a.k.a athlete defending another?

She would get alot thrown at her is she openly defended those two scumbags, so she gives a roundabout answer.

[okaawhatever]

9. In a new twist on slut shaming, there is a serious question as to whether she was drugged. What

happened was that when they took her blood it was too late to detect any drug. Due to the fact that it couldn't be proven, it was not allowed to be discussed or put forth in the media. She exhibited all the signs including lack of memory. So Serena, there are two things that are really sad here. Your comment, and the fact that she likely was drugged.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

10. Funny, usually she's a big hero around here

Serena, despite her talent, has never struck me as the sharpest knife in the drawer, nor the most pleasant.

[egduj]

12. But she did that dance...

[DURHAM D]

13. Well, she was home schooled and

it has been suggested that she does not have a high school education/diploma. Also she is Jehovah's Witness thus has been gifted with the right to judge others.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

35. I stand by what I said

Whether you don't believe me or are just playing obtuse when you know Serena is gushed about here is your issue.

[BainsBane]

113. Funny that decent human beings respond negatively to victim shaming?

Funny to whom? You?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

119. *Sigh*

Stop trying to pick a fight where there is none just because most of the people you like to harangue are now ignoring you. There was nothing in my post that indicated I found her comments to be anything but contemptible.

[BainsBane]

120. What is it that you were doing?

If not taking a shot at other DUers? You didn't comment on Williams' statement. You took it as an opportunity to call out imaginary members you think have spoken positively of Williams, as though that had any bearing whatsoever on this OP, which it does not.
You are quite capable of picking your own fights. You don't need me to do that.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

121. Yes, imaginary....

Whatever you say....

Thanks for 'splaining it straight for me.

[BainsBane]

123. So do you assert that if someone has ever spoken favorably

about a public figure or person, it's not possible to object to something they later say or do? That doesn't make any sense to me. I don't see how anything anyone might have said about Serena Williams in the past has any relevance, though it would appear you saw it as an opportunity to grind an ax.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

125. Serena has said stupid shit in the past

And there have been people who rush in to defend her because of whatever reason that makes her more special than other dumb athletes. Like the time she threatened to shove a ball down the throat of a line judge. People find reasons to give people a pass. My comment really was a throwaway line. You can seriously move on now.

[BainsBane]

122. So do you assert that if someone has ever spoken favorably

about a public figure or person, it's not possible to object to something they later say or do? That doesn't make any sense to me. I don't see how anything anyone might have said about Serena Williams in the past has any relevance.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

126. Why, have you?

You seem to really take my throwaway line to heart.

[BainsBane]

127. Oh, no. I understood exactly what it was

Just another opportunity to throw in a dig as some members you don't like. I myself could give a fuck about her or any other athlete.

[Igel]

11. It's how a lot of people think.

You leave your car windows down in the parking lot with nice electronics in the front seat and they get stolen, they question your judgment. Yes, it's wrong to steal. You can file a police report. But the police'll laugh at you, behind your back or to your face for being careless or a fool.

When my students leave their phones or iPods behind in the classroom by accident and they're not there 3 hours later, nobody bemoans the low state of honesty among teenagers. Most students and teachers and administrators--including the kid who's missing his/her phone or iPod, have no problem assigning at least part of the blame to the person who left the electronics behind.

My parents had a pool in their back yard, one of the few in the neighborhood. Their house was also near the end of the street, so moderately secluded. The county made them put up a fence and decrease accessibility. If anybody went swimming without permission and drowned, my parents would be responsible because it was an attractive hazard. They did what they could; they couldn't stop the obviously immorale trespassers who, when my parents were asleep and safely behind their wall of sound (central air) or out of town would invade their yard and swim.

If I hired a guy to watch our kid, knowing he's a registered sex offender and has abused other kids my son's age, If the guy did anything he'd be 100% responsible for his actions. Responsibility doesn't have to total up to 100%. I'd have put my kid in harm's way. I don't think it would be amiss to question my judgment.

Same if I visit Caracas and get roaring drunk in a seedy part of town, flashing money around and showing that I am obviously an American with no grasp of English). If I pass out in an alley and find my wallet and passport gone, yeah, some thieves are 100% responsible. But really, that's good judgment? I'm the victim, so nobody can question the wisdom of showing myself an easy and rich target, then incapacitating myself even though I know there's a high crime rate. Do we really want to say that's a reasonable position?

In the rarefied world of ideology a person can bear no responsibility for their actions if they're a victim, even if they enable their victimization. In the real world, people can be both victims and share responsibility for what happens to them--both avoiding enabling victimization as well as exercising some sort of prudence to avoid being victimized.

[rastaone]

14. Thank you for articulating such a very delicate topic the way you did

Some people around here will bury you just like they are doing to Serena for deviating from the hive mentality. The truth is that this young lady got her self drunk at 16 and she did so at a party full of other drunk/tipsy teenage boys. Not saying that what happened to her was right but she did not put herself in a good situation by getting drunk.

I grew up in a bad neighbourhood and I remember my parents all the time telling me to make sure I am back home before dark. Now knowing the potential for danger after dark, should I bear some of the blame if something happened to me after dark? the answer is yes and so should this poor lady.

Sorry if this pisses u off

[WhollyHeretic]

15. Oh yes, Thank you! I'm so glad you two and Serena had the guts to come out and attack a 16 year old

Last edited Wed Jun 19, 2013, 12:05 PM - Edit history (1)

who was the victim of repeated sexual assaults. She has just gotten off way to easy...

[Agschmid]

18. "Attacked"...

I don't see it. Maybe you don't agree with the reasoning, but they most certainly did not attack the victim.

[gcomeau]

19. Pointing out plain facts is not an attack. -eom

[joeglow3]

20. Can you point to the "attack?"

[WhollyHeretic]

21. The "blame the victim" crap is an attack. Hell Serena seems to imply that those poor promising boys

got too much of a punishment. "Do you think it was fair, what they got? They did something stupid, but I don't know." The blame the victim crowd wants to minimize what these rapists did and push the blame onto girl who was repeatedly assaulted.

[joeglow3]

24. I did not read that at all in his/her post and challenge you to point to it.

[WhollyHeretic]

26. The entire post was about blaming the victim and supporting Serena's idiocy.

[joeglow3]

39. No. It was teaching people about common sense

No one deserves to be victimized. However, there are common sense precautions we can all take to minimize the chances of it happening. That is NOT blaming the victim.

[Scootaloo]

56. Yeah, for instance, these assholes could have had the common sense to NOT drug and rape someone

But of course, that's not what the posters in this subthread, or Serena are talking about. The finger is being waggled at the girl who got drugged and raped. She's the one who should "know better," and not the perpetrators of the crimes against her.

That's victim-blaming. It's a textbook example of victim-blaming.

[Just Saying]

66. This ^^

And again it doesn't really matter I'd she was drugged or drunk on he own, they had no right to have sex with her without her consent. It's a simple concept.

[joeglow3]

108. And show me where we said it was

Oh, thats right. You can't because we never did. This is just about you stirring shit up so you can feel superior to others.

[City Lights]

73. Exactly!

[joeglow3]

79. Bull fucking shit

Not a SINGLE person said that. You are creating shit to put yourself up on a high horse and stir shit up. People are saying that, as a word of caution to others, there are steps we should all take to minimize risks. This in no way says the victim is to blame.

Let me repeat that again: THIS IN NO WAY SAYS THE VICTIM IS TO BLAME!

And, a third time, for good measure: THIS IN NO WAY SAYS THE VICTIM IS TO BLAME!

THIS is what we are getting at:

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=teenage+date+rape+statistics&l=1

[Ms. Toad]

124. Even when he says it is?

"Now knowing the potential for danger after dark, should I bear some of the blame if something happened to me after dark? the answer is yes and so should this poor lady. "

[redqueen]

50. Rejecting victim-blaming bullshit and rape culture is a "hive mentality"?

[Iggo]

74. How many?

[BainsBane]

114. What would we do without people like you and the other poster

to make the world safe for misogyny? People might actually put rapists in jail instead of shaming rape victims and driving them to suicide. God knows we wouldn't want that.

[Puzzledtraveller]

16. a reasoned response

we need more of this on DU.

[redqueen]

48. You think we need more apologia for rape culture?

Wow.

[Puzzledtraveller]

57. Yes, thats exactly what I said

plain as day, no putting words in my mouth here. You got me.

I was responding to the thought that went in to the response, not the content, not the ideals but a "reasoned" response, not a "reasonable" response. But I don't want to take anything ayway from your emotional reaction.

WOW< I lovez teh rape!!, get over yourself

[redqueen]

59. 'Wow, you defended rape culture so eloquently and thoughtfully...

I simply must express my thanks and admiration!'

[LanternWaste]

23. What precisely did the victim do that directly resulted in her rape...

"In the real world, people can be both victims and share responsibility for what happens to them..."

What precisely did the victim do that directly resulted in her drugging and rape? And what specific action/actions should she have denied herself to better ensure her own safety, of which, that same specific action/actions may then be projected onto all other potential rape victims to better ensure their safety?

[joeglow3]

40. I never went to parties where alcohol was present and adults weren't when I was 16.

Again, she did nothing to deserve the treatment she got. However, we can take steps to minimize the chance of it happening. My wife and I go to the beach in swimsuits. We would never take a trip to Iraq and walk around in swim suits.

[LanternWaste]

44. One wonders what percentage of rapes result from HS beer parties.

Then you believe the amount of rapes would dramatically decline if youths stopped going to parties where alcohol is present and adult aren't? One wonders what percentage of rapes result from HS beer parties-- as I went to many and rapes did not happen (since we're using anecdotal evidence it seems...)

Or is your solution specific merely to this case?

[joeglow3]

46. Are you trying to be obtuse?

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=teenage+date+rape+statistics&l=1

[SoCalDem]

49. She acted like many/most teens.. Teenagers take chances all the time

Sometimes they get lucky and someone takes good care of them and keeps them safe.. sometimes not.

It's a bad thing that happened to her, but those animals did not enter her home & attack her.. she "delivered herself" to them, and became their victim The ONE thing she has going for her is that they were so bold as to identify themselves for the police so they can be prosecuted.

That girl could have been found dead in a park the next day

[Just Saying]

70. Uh no.

She went to a party like lots of kids do. Rape is rape-it doesn't matter if they broke in her house or took advantage of her at a party. Is it any wonder most rapes aren't reported?

Are all the posters blaming this girl men? Please educate yourselves about rape because these posts are truly sad.

[SoCalDem]

77. Have you been raped?

I have..

you believe what you want and I'll do the same ..no further comments are necessary or welcomed

[Just Saying]

84. You're on a public message board

If you comment, you should expect others to do the same.

I don't blame victims for their own attacks.

I'm sorry that happened to you.

[Just Saying]

61. So by getting drunk she was too much of a temptation for these boys?

Males just can't control themselves around passed out females? If I were a man, I'd be insulted by your post. As a woman, I'm just disgusted.

Please google "rape culture." It is not okay to have sex with someone who cannot consent. Ever!

It doesn't matter what she wore, what she drank, where she went or who she was with-there is no excuse for sexual assault. No, it is not this victim's fault that she was sexually assaulted and it is not only illegal but it is not normal behavior. It's not just boys being boys to take advantage of a woman because she's there and incapacitated. This is the type of thinking that led to this incident in the first place.

[cbdo2007]

83. Good post, but they'll tear you about here for looking at the world in a realistic way.

[siligut]

22. She was drugged by people she trusted. She didn't get blotto drunk.

These boys pretended to be her friends and then drugged her drink. I get so irritated when the crap story the media pushes changes what people know.

[siligut]

27. What work is it to drop a pill in a drink?

And those boys joked about her being dead and she was limp like a drugged person. I don't want to discuss this with you. That is all.

[MattBaggins]

42. "Just for a finger rape"?

You're disgusting. Pathetic attempt to minimize what was done to her.

[redqueen]

53. Fucking sickening. nt

[City Lights]

54. What a disgusting post.

[Just Saying]

65. It frankly doesn't matter.

Whether she was drunk or drugged does not matter. They had no consent to have sex with her so it is rape period.

[Zoeisright]

75. You are disgusting.

I would guess your past needs some examining if you think that "star football players" are gods and if dropping a pill into someone's drink is "a lot of work".

By the way, rape is rape. Which you would understand if you had an IQ above 5.

[TDale313]

81. What a seriously fucked up attitude. n/t

[historylovr]

112. Disgusting comment.

Have you even read about this case at all? You don't *think* someone would do that? You don't think two cocky star football players in a town and school where they're worshipped would think twice about doing something like this? They thought they would get off with not even a slap on the wrist--which is basically all they got. "Just a finger rape." Jesus Christ on a pogo stick.

[LanternWaste]

32. What specifically leads you believe that?

"My guess is that she did what many irresponsible teenagers do and binge drank till she was drunk out of her mind..."

What specifically leads you believe that to be the case, rather than being drugged?

[rastaone]

34. Because it is more believable than

someone drugging him. Teenage binge drinking is an epidemic in this country while star football players drugging girls is not. Just going by what makes the most sense, hence the reason why I called it a guess and not fact

[LanternWaste]

45. What specifically leads you to believe that drugging a young woman is less believable?

What specifically leads you to believe that drugging a young woman is less believable? That a thing may be plausible only if at epidemic levels is absurdly idiotic at best, hence I imagine I interpreted what you stated incorrectly, yes?

"Teenage binge drinking is an epidemic in this country while star football players drugging girls is not." More people are victims of gun violence from friends and family than from strangers. Using your line of reasoning consistently, you then discount a victim saying they were shot by a stranger as it would "make more sense?"

[redqueen]

55. It doesn't matter. Drugged or drunk, doesn't matter.

Rape is never the victim's fault. At all. Ever.

[siligut]

72. We are in complete agreement there

Rape is never the victim's fault. At all. Ever.

I know and agree.

I just wanted to reiterate that she was drugged, as early in this thread and in the article the OP used, the drugging isn't mentioned and some of the posts following stated that she was careless getting blotto. I know this is not the case and believe that while rape is never ever OK, it is even worse when the victim is drugged.

[redqueen]

76. How is it worse if the victim is drugged?

This is just another manifestation of the Madonna/whore dichotomy. Serena herself says it. That if she was drugged, well that's different. It isn't different. Rape is rape and by giving any credence to these false depictions of victims being in any way culpable we are only feeding this kind of thinking.

I'm not trying to attack you, I just want to make it clear how these ideas are harmful to women.

[siligut]

88. It makes it a worse crime

The delinquents are even more culpable. It indicates premeditation and increased malfeasance, plus it is a crime in itself, drugging another person is illegal. I also believe that it is worse on the psyche of the victim as conscious memory is even more impaired, but another part of the mind will store that memory and may express itself in times of fear or stress. I know you aren't trying to attack me.

[redqueen]

91. Yes, that's a good point. Legally speaking it is treated differently.

Thanks for explaining that, and for understanding my intent.

[Just Saying]

85. That's what I've been saying.

Why make excuses? It's not normal to rape under any circumstances.

[wercal]

69. Williams hedged her statement to exclude drugging:

'but she shouldn't have put herself in that position, unless they slipped her something, then that's different'

So the intent of her statement really dealt with getting passed out drunk (btw she had completely walked back the statement, to the point of accusing the reporter of misquoting her).

As I understand the case, the victim claims to have medical evidence she was drugged...but this was not used in the prosecution...and the prosecution proceded as if she was raped while passed out drunk. To my knowledge, no accompanying charges were filed for using drugs to incapacitate her.

So who knows whether or not she was drugged. I certainly don't claim to.

I have a 17 y/o daughter. To my knowledge, she has not been to a drinking party. And quite frankly, she has never been to a party that I haven't picked her up at.

If I were to give her instructions to:

- don't go to parties with people you barely know
- don't drink at all, and certainly don't get drunk
- don't stay all night at a party, especially with boys you hardly know
- whatever you might be drinking (punch, soda, or beer if you defy me), protect it. Don't leave it sitting unattended. Try drinking out of a bottle if possible, or even a cup with a lid and a straw.
- tell me exactly the address of this party, and certainly do not hop in the car with people you barely know to go to a different house

I would do this with the experience of the Steubenville victim in the back of my head. I certainly don't blame her...but I see no problem with identifying the parameters which set up the situation that made rape possible. And I think its 'ok' to tell a girl 'don't get drunk at the party', without being accused of blaming rape victims or believing they 'deserved it'.

I think this is what this Serena woman was trying to say (even though she now claims to not have said it).

BTW - its not 'fair' that girls have to take extra precautions. My daughter has picked up on the fact that she has gotten different treatment from me, than her older brother did. We've discussed it - bottom line is the world is not a perfect place; and, young girls are preyed upon. Until the world becomes perfect, I will continue to warn her explicitly to not trust boys in certain situations.

[siligut]

80. Seeing the picture of her being carried by her arms and legs

Being carted to a different house, unable to protest and then the boys talking about how she might be dead, all indicate that she had something more than alcohol in her system.

You are a good parent to teach your daughter about the possible dangers and how to avoid them.

[wercal]

101. I can understand that she looks very much unresponsive

But two of her friends (defense witnesses) testified in court that she was drunk, in their opinion:

http://www.cleveland.com/steubenville-rape-case/index.ssf/2013/03/steubenville_rape_case_1.html

[siligut]

102. Two of her "former friends"

We have already acknowledged that football rules the people and everyone was more concerned about the boys and their futures. Those girls are sell-outs.

[wercal]

105. It is very possible that they may have an agenda

But they did testify under oath.

Like I said, I don't claim to know whether or not she was drugged...but it is poossible she wasn't.

The story is unfolding, but right now there is a case where a woman at the Naval Academy claims she was raped. Her claims are based on the Facebook buzz she saw about it later...as she has absolutely no memory of the events (and being 'passed out' could not have given any type of consent). So far, she has not mentioned being drugged...just that she had been drinking heavily. But alot of shots of hard alchohol in a short period of time can practically render a smaller person unconscience...which is what she alleges happened to her.

[siligut]

106. I am going by what I saw and heard when this was first exposed

When stories change over time, it usually favors the people with power. I have seen alcohol intoxication and can accept that a temporary stupor can be induced, but she stayed in that stupor for hours.

[KitSileya]

116. Not only 'former friends', but very much potential victims.

Every girl in Steubenville knows that she risks being raped by "the rape crew". Apparently this has been endemic for years - previous victims have also spoken about how this happened years earlier. Every girl in that high school most likely knew the risk, and had seen the consequences of going against the wishes of these football "heroes". After all, the Steubenville victim was raped because she had dared break up with someone on the team. It is quite a lot to ask of girls in Steubenville to put themselves at risk and testify against these boys, when the sheriff, the prosecutor, the coach, the principal, every authority figure they know so staunchly defended these rapists.

[OnionPatch]

117. That's the word around town.

I haven't lived there for years but I'm hearing that from friends back there. (I was born in Steubenville.) I don't doubt it for a minute. I know it was a pretty popular thing when I lived there to put "roofies" in a girls drink. I never took a drink from anyone I did't know and trust.

[Enrique]

28. UPDATE: Serena takes it back

http://deadspin.com/serena-williams-on-steubenville-im-not-blaming-the-g-514085256?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

What happened in Steubenville was a real shock for me. I was deeply saddened. For someone to be raped, and at only sixteen, is such a horrible tragedy! For both families involved – that of the rape victim and of the accused. I am currently reaching out to the girl’s family to let her know that I am deeply sorry for what was written in the Rolling Stone article. What was written – what I supposedly said – is insensitive and hurtful, and I by no means would say or insinuate that she was at all to blame.

I have fought all of my career for women’s equality, women’s equal rights, respect in their fields – anything I could do to support women I have done. My prayers and support always goes out to the rape victim. In this case, most especially, to an innocent sixteen year old child.

[Small Accumulates]

33. May her walk-back be an inspiration to rape apologists everywhere

But I'm not holding my breath waiting for it.

[stevenleser]

36. I'm not sure if it was a walk back or that she never said the ridiculous things in the first place.

Her statement puts the original quoted statements in doubt.

[Small Accumulates]

37. The Rolling Stone reporter asserts her original statements are on tape

According to a Poynter report: http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/mediawire/216409/rolling-stone-writer-says-he-taped-serena-williams-interview/

I'd hope Rolling Stone's editors were cautious and meticulous in verifying the accuracy of the reporting.

[stevenleser]

38. Ugh if true. Just ugh. nt

[Small Accumulates]

41. My feelings exactly. I've long admired Ms. Williams. n/t

[City Lights]

43. Not surprised at all to read they have her on tape. nt

[Scootaloo]

60. "What I supposedly said"? "I'm sorry for what was written"?

What's the matter Serena, were you that drunk where you didn't remember?

[City Lights]

78. Haha!

[Warpy]

30. She's trying to convince herself

that if she lives her own life like a cloistered nun, she'll escape being raped.

Sadly, that is not the case.

She needs to remember that the Steubenville survivor did nothing wrong. It only became wrong in retrospect.

[Lunacee_2013]

111. I see a lot of women doing this.

Never going out at night, never drinking and the like. They think if they follow all the rules on how to avoid rape that every woman's been told, then it won't happen to them. And NO, it is not the case. Rape is never the victim's fault, it doesn't matter what she did or didn't don. That's what makes some of the replies here wrong.

[B2G]

31. The blame belongs squarely on the boys, but

this is exactly why I had numerous talks with my girls about drinking and/or accepting drinks from people at parties. Someone should have had that talk with this girl years ago.

[Puzzledtraveller]

62. In other words

use caution, but some would say that you even having this talk with your girls was implys that you believe it is their fault if anything would happen to them. Of course I do not believe that. There was a post a while back about this very thing.

[B2G]

64. I know you understand where I'm coming from

It's about common sense and personal safetly. Crucial conversations for teenagers of both sexes.

If I had boys, I'd have told them not to put themselves into situations where they could be accused of something.

[KamaAina]

47. Serena should move to Utah and try out for Miss USA

"...Obviously I don't know, maybe she wasn't a virgin, but she shouldn't have put herself in that position, unless they slipped her something, then that's different."

Are there any American women who can play tennis besides her and her sister? I've about had it with both of them.

[MrSlayer]

58. She's a fucking moron.

Better off keeping your idiot mouth shut and sticking to playing tennis. What a dope.

[MADem]

63. She needs to make it a requirement at future interviews that all tvs be turned off.

She also needs to require that the reporter stick to talking about her and her game...!

I'll bet the reporter was thrilled, in a kinda-gotcha way, when she started running her mouth, though.

Of course, the story ends, as it always does, with a public retraction/disavowal/'that's not what I meant' moment, while the author of the piece says "Oh yeah--she said it! (Stir, stir).... BAD tennis player!!!:"

Sometimes it's best just to say nothing at all.
Update, June 19, 10:22 AM ET -- Serena released the following statement via Twitter:
“What happened in Steubenville was a real shock for me. I was deeply saddened. For someone to be raped, and at only sixteen, is such a horrible tragedy! For both families involved – that of the rape victim and of the accused. I am currently reaching out to the girl’s family to let her know that I am deeply sorry for what was written in the Rolling Stone article. What was written – what I supposedly said – is insensitive and hurtful, and I by no means would say or insinuate that she was at all to blame.
I have fought all of my career for women’s equality, women’s equal rights, respect in their fields – anything I could do to support women I have done. My prayers and support always goes out to the rape victim. In this case, most especially, to an innocent sixteen year old child.”
Update, June 19, 11:41 AM ET -- The author of the piece, Stephen Rodrick, said to Poynter, "The interview is on tape. Other than that, I’ll let the story speak for itself.”

[B2G]

67. Does anyone here really think she *didn't* make bad choices?

I do. That's not the same as blaming her and saying she got what she deserved.

Why is questioning her judgment inexcusable?

[wercal]

71. I agree with you

If for no other reason, making it an inexcusable offense to question her judgement causes it to be impossible to warn other young girls not to get drunk at a party...without being accused of being 'pro-rape'.

[Just Saying]

82. No I don't think it's okay to question her judgement

Because it does imply she's to blame. Who has the right to tell a woman/girl how she should live? Maybe the next girl is wearing the wrong skirt or why was she out past 11-can you see how this can be dangerous?

That's not to say you shouldn't teach your daughter to be careful in a dangerous world, but would you blame them if they got drunk and were attacked? Or if they missed curfew and got robbed?

Two people committed a crime against another person that night. I question their judgement.

[B2G]

87. Who has the right? Her parents, that's who.

She was 16 and drunk off her ass, an illegal act in itself. Had that been my child, several things would have happened in rapid succession.

First, my husband would have to be restrained to prevent him from killing those boys.

Secondly, after her physical needs had been attended to and counseling sought, we would have had a serious conversation about how choices we make can enhance or degrade our life experiences and personal safety.

Who has the right indeed.

[redqueen]

90. Wow.

It's so kind of you to wait a while before making sure she knew what a key part her choices played in her being gang raped and humiliated via the net.

Cause, you know, its not like she'd think of that herself, at all... no way. There's, like, ZERO chance that she would blame herself already... I'm positive that's not something she would have had to tried to get over during counseling. Never.

Truly a kind, compassionate, thoughtful, and well-considered plan you have there. Truly.

[B2G]

92. Do you have daughters?

And if so, have you discussed this type of scenario with them? What did you say?

[redqueen]

97. This discussion isn't about advice, or my life. It is about victim blaming.

That's a thing that certain types of people do AFTER A WOMAN IS RAPED.

They focus ON HER, AND HOW SHE SHARES IN THE BLAME.

I give you credit for trying desperately to derail the thread further, but I am not fucking joking, I'm so fucking done.

[B2G]

99. Bye then.

Again, I'm not blaming here for being raped. I am saying that unless she changes that behavior it's a safe bet it will happen again. Or worse.

[Puzzledtraveller]

93. Well, we don't have any stomach for responsibility

just the atrocities that came from a lack of it.

[B2G]

96. Exactly. I am in no way saying she 'deserved to be raped'

However there are behaviors that make it more likely, and drinking yourself into a coma in a large group setting is one of them.

If no adult in her life is prepared to point that out to her, then THEY are the ones to blame if it happens again.

[Just Saying]

104. I can stomach just fine that two rapists are in juvenile jail. n/t

[Puzzledtraveller]

110. I agree completely

[redqueen]

86. Holy fucking shit I cannot believe we are still having to explain this shit on this board.

I will explain it.

Tou know how most girls and women don't bother reporting that they were raped?

Do you think that should change?

Then STOP FUCKING MAKING VICTIMS THINK IT IS IN ANY WAY THEIR FAULT!

Her "judgement" did not get her raped. Rapists raped her and they do it all the fucking time and they know they most likely will get away with it BECAUSE GIRLS AND WOMEN WON'T REPORT IT BECAUSE THEY ARE CONSTANTLY GETTING THE MESSAGE THAT IT IS THEIR FAULT.

[B2G]

89. We disagre

Her judgment put her into a situation where she had no control. She could have just as easily been abducted and killed. I realize rape is a hot button topic here, but if you drink yourself into an unconscious state, bad things can happen, be it sexual assault or worse. She could have easily died from alcohol poisoning.

The boys are completely responsible for the assault and they should be punished severely.

From what I understand from court testimony, this was not the first time she drank herself into a blackout. To pretend that her behavior doesn't need to be addressed and remedied does her no favors at all.

[redqueen]

94. Wow. From what you understand she had a drinking problem, huh? Enjoy yourself.

Clearly that's the important issue. Not, y'know, the topic of the OP (which, coincidentally, is how fucked up victim blaming is).

I am sickened by this conversation. Bye.

[Just Saying]

95. Her behavior is her business. (And yes her parents who I hope are in counseling with her)

Some reading on the subject: http://cogentcomment.com/2013/03/19/so-youre-tired-of-hearing-about-rape-culture/

Rape culture is when we spend all our time telling women to avoid being raped by modifying their behavior, inferring blame back onto the victim.

[B2G]

98. Drinking yourself to the point of unconsiousness invites far more than rape

It invites kidnapping, torture, murder.

How anyone here cannot agree that this is dangerous behavior is beyond me.

[Just Saying]

107. It is dangerous to drink too much for any number of reasons.

I agree. But it doesn't cause people to rape you. I guess leaving the house could invite crime but it still doesn't make it your fault. There's no way to know for sure it would have changed anything and it doesn't excuse criminal behavior.

Under aged drinking and rape are worlds apart as crimes go.

Secondly, after her physical needs had been attended to and counseling sought, we would have had a serious conversation about how choices we make can enhance or degrade our life experiences and personal safety.

Guarantee any counselor will tell you not to have that conversation. It is absolutely blaming a victim who will already be blaming herself. How is at helpful?

[riqster]

100. Kindly provide details of what you "heard"

Links to the court records would be fine.

[B2G]

103. Here

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/articles/2013/03/16/news/doc5144692097ad4469485483.txt?viewmode=fullstory

[alp227]

118. Wipe that Gabrielle Giffords avatar off your profile. NOW.

Until you realize how wrong your POV is. I think a more appropriate profile avatar would be...err...Roman Polanski? Jerry Sandusky?

[Iggo]

115. This right here.

[lunatica]

68. Being an athlete doesn't make anyone smarter than others

She obviously didn't know the whole story or the facts about this rape. The girl did not voluntarily do any of it.

Serena should stick to what she knows.