Why the fuck...

[Playinghardball]

[HeroInAHalfShell]

1. I was 12....

[RedCappedBandit]

14. I was 13, and still outraged back then. nt

[demwing]

27. I was 13 before you were 13, Hipster

I mean , since we're all competing...

[RedCappedBandit]

63. LOL. Point taken. nt

[alp227]

61. And I was only 10 n/t

[rhett o rick]

92. Yeah, Yeah, big deal. So you guys are young. Not a big deal. You'll get over it. nm

[WovenGems]

131. Well

Shouldn't all you youngsters know the limitations of the technologies utilized by the NSA? You grew up with it. I hade to keep up with the advancements.

[corkhead]

2. I was

[reformist2]

3. Good point. But better late than never.

And it is frustrating that Obama is catching all the flak for this, and not Bush/Cheney, but you have to play the cards you're dealt.

[Savannahmann]

4. If we can prove we were, will you join us now?

Granted, you'll be late to the party, but better late than never.

[ybbor]

88. I was then as well

I've pissed off many people who "aren't doing anything they need to hide" explaining that isn't the point.

[cherokeeprogressive]

5. So we missed the chance... Got it.

[HappyMe]

6. They may have been outrage.

I'm wondering if it was this intense and took over GD.

[quakerboy]

106. Seeing as the site was less than a year old 12 years ago

at the time of the patriot act, I wonder if there was a GD?

If there was, given that one big reason for the site to exist was the travesty of the installation of Bush in the white house and the anticipation of the misdeeds he would do, I would guess that they were fairly incensed. Though there were a lot of people shellshocked by the 9/11 events. I know my immediate instinct at the time was that this was a bill that would come back to haunt us if it were allowed to pass.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

128. DU was up and running on inauguration day -

When the Patriot Act was proposed, it was fiercely debated here in the main forum at the time, which was General Discussion (IIRC). Most DUers were against it and there were multiple calls to action to contact Congress and the White House to stop it from being passed.

[Art_from_Ark]

155. That is correct

And there was no real debate about it in the Congress, just the old shit about "If you're not with us, you're with the enemy". Of course, any calls to the White House in those days to stop egregious legislation like the Orwellian Patriot Act would have fallen on completely deaf ears.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

156. I have a stack --

faxes that I fired off to the WH over the 8 years of the Bush presidency. My current stack is smaller. But not by much.

[Art_from_Ark]

157. It does seem like there is some truth to that old cliche

"The more things change, the more they stay the same"

[Hell Hath No Fury]

159. I think we've been "fiddling around the edges" -

of "change" for many years, on the easy stuff like social change, some enviromental stuff -- but the REAL change, the stuff that could fundamentally remake the playng field in favor of the American people -- that shit is long gone.

[Flashmann]

7. I started to be outraged 12 years ago

Fortunately,I was assured this kinda shit would only be used against tourists...Maybe it was terrorists,but it sure sounded like the talking chimp said tourists.

Either way,it's all worked out just peachy!

[Marie Marie]

38. Damn tourists - look what they have caused.

[BobbyBoring]

74. I started to be outraged in 2000

When SCOTUS appointed W as the POTUS. Where were these champions of states rights then?? I hope the right has learned a lesson, but they don't learn lessons. The lesson would be, right is right and wrong is wrong, regardless if it's "Your guy" or "Our guy" doing it. The REAL lesson is, if you can't come up with at least a 6 figure bribe, I mean donation every election cycle, you don't have a guy.

[DiamondDog]

8. Why are you assuming that we weren't outraged then?

Lots of people were indeed outraged twelve years ago, and ever since. But what, we're not supposed to be outraged now because the President in power now has a D behind his name?

[demwing]

30. because reality conflicts with the OP's narrative / nt

[MelungeonWoman]

114. WORD.

I was reading Eschaton back then along with a few other lib blogs. EVERYBODY was pissed. OP is full of hooey.

[blkmusclmachine]

9. Ad hominem

Strawmen

Sock puppet

Apologist

Cheerleader

Sell out

Traitor

Take your pick.

[Downtown Hound]

11. I was

Then I voted for "change" twice, and now I'm pissed off that I'm not getting it.

There, that was simple, wasn't it?

[JimDandy]

15. LOL. n/t

[WilliamPitt]

29. Thread Win.

[magellan]

32. !

[MindPilot]

36. And some hope...no longer have any of that either.

that's pretty much it...lotta broken promises.

[MelungeonWoman]

115. Talk about a hope breaker...

Just wait till we elect Elizabeth Warren, only to find she's a former Republican and bankster who governs pretty much the same as Bush and Obama. That's when the real soul crushing starts.

[Octafish]

42. What Downtown Hound said.

PS: As I'm really old, I've been furious about things since Nov. 22, 1963.

[fredamae]

56. There "it" is

Well said.

[Monkie]

60. some people are just born furious at "the man"

i wear my fury with pride!

[Martin Eden]

84. 50 years is a long time to be furious.

Entirely healthy & rational response, though.

If a majority of the citizenry had that same response, for the same reasons, the necessity for fury would have ended long ago.

I was 6 years old at the time, but I have come to understand that much more than a president died in Dallas that day.

[malaise]

90. +1,000

My outrage began with Kent State and Vietnam

[WillyT]

46. + 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!! - K & R !!!

[sibelian]

50. +1

[Sentath]

54. Yup

Bingo

[progressoid]

55. me too.

[RedCappedBandit]

64. Perfect response.

[suffragette]

67. Exactly so, Downtown Hound

Example here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2113557

[forestpath]

68. [phone]

[Maven]

78. Thread over.

Thanks.

[a2liberal]

81. +1000000 (n/t)

[Ms. Toad]

82. +1000 n/t

[redgreenandblue]

109. +1

[ctsnowman]

118. LOL I agree. NT

[n2doc]

119. We were sold a bill of goods by BHO

The worshippers have been reduced to absolutely ridiculous levels in their unrelenting support of everything Obama. Now if you aren't an Idol Worshipper you are a hypocritical Hater(tm) and Racist.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

122. ^^^ This ^^^

Thanks, DH!

[Hell Hath No Fury]

124. May I associate myself with your remarks?

[Nay]

142. +1000

[harun]

145. +1, Succinct and poignant

[GeorgeGist]

12. wtf?

is the point. Other than being condescending.

[Skittles]

19. it's one of the eleven excuses they have

for thinking everything is just peachy-keen

[SheilaT]

13. A lot of us were outraged 12 years ago.

Were you not paying attention back then?

[HardTimes99]

16. I pissed away 8 years of my life protesting twice- and thrice-weekly

in the streets against this shit (from 2001-2009). Then I thought Obama said he was going to restore the Constitution and the rule of law. He was a professor of Constitutional law after all.

Well, Obama said a lot of things. Silly me. Right now, I feel like a big schmuck for having believed him, a feeling I'm sure is shared by many progressives on this board.

Obama is no different from any other mealy-mouthed politician, no worse but no better either. In 2008, I thought I was voting for 'better.' Instead, I got Bush, v. 2.0 (or 4.0, to paraphrase that evil toady Ari "People Better Watch What They Say" Fleischer).

I want the Bush war criminals under investigation, indictment or on trial, I want Gitmo, Bagram and the other black sites closed permanently and I want the spying on innocent Americans stopped. That's what I thought I was fucking voting for.

[MindPilot]

37. Same stroy here.

[TheKentuckian]

17. Who is this "you" that is being referred to?

[Skittles]

20. anyone they perceive to taint the annointed one

[Hissyspit]

23. And it's really counter-productive for memes & arguments like this

to lump everyone together.

[darkangel218]

102. lmao@ "the annointed one"

[uponit7771]

112. "annoited one" = winger phrases and we're not supposed to believe we're this is not fudr....

...ok

[H2O Man]

18. Actually,

this business started under Nixon's White House (and had been going on outside the White House long before that); like many, many others here, I've been strongly opposed to it ever since.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. Nixon accelerated it

Like little boots put it on steroids, but it is a creature of the Cold War.

http://www.eastcountymagazine.org/node/13410

To be fair Truman started it.

[Marrah_G]

21. It's a big part of why I voted twice for change

Unfortunately, it didn't change for the better on this issue.

[RitchieRich]

121. After NDAA, didn't vote straight D for the first time

last time, it was straight D minus the presidential vote which went to Jill Stein.

The only reason I found DU was I was booted off NPR for posting links to ACLU's coverage of NDAA when their coverage was nearly non-existent. I actually almost stopped with DU right off because everyone kept calling me a Paulbot for asking related questions.

[Hissyspit]

22. I was.

[Vanje]

24. There was plenty of outrage here on DU

There was plenty of outrage here on DU with wire-less wire-tapping, but there were no arguments here in favor of spying on citizens.


What we didnt see then, were DUers who agree'd with the Patriot Act.
No one vocally sided with the NSA. No one preached the virtue in trusting in secret courts.

[Hydra]

25. Overused Meme

I freaked out every step of this crazy game. For your reference:

FISA gutting:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2881105#2881142

Rereading some of those old posts, it's surprising how similar the arguments were, and how it was divided along basically the same lines- Trust the Gov't with obscene amounts of power(Bush at the time) or treat terrorism as a criminal matter.

5 years later we're having the same discussion- sorry if you missed the outrage before for some reason. It was probably smothered by the people who were insisting President Obama wasn't doing this stuff now.

[Nye Bevan]

26. Which is the better response?

1. "Fuck you, you're too late. I don't want your support".

2. "Welcome aboard! Better late than never!"

[treestar]

28. May not apply to DU but definitely applies to the population at large eom

[NCTraveler]

138. I think this is a very fair comment.

I think that a lot of the country sat there and trusted Bush and Congress after 911 to do what was necessary. Many Democrats went right along with the Patriot Act. Many were like sheep and willing to just give in to what they were told was necessary. Many were not. 911 is now history and people are thinking with their heads again. Duers at the time, and even those who are aware and have joined since then, probably were furious with the Patriot Act then and now.

[RC]

31. I got outraged. I saw through the lies and propaganda leading up to Iraq

I also wondered how they could come up with such a massive government overhaul as the so-called Patriot Act, in such a short time.
But so many people had blood in their eye and wanted revenge. They still thought we were the good guys back then.

[Squinch]

33. ... it's been a slow burn ...

[X_Digger]

34. I did, thanks. n/t

[thefool_wa]

35. I did

It made no difference. My initial reaction to 9/11 was "my god...what are they going to use this as an excuse to get away with." Less than a week later we had the answer...and anyone who opposed was told they were heartless, a traitor, terrorist sympathizer..the whole gamut.

So don't blame us because all we get to do is vote once a year and the fucktards in control don't care what we want. Never have, never will.

[Boomerproud]

39. I have been outraged and angry since the Patriot Act was passed.

I also know (and the media will not say this publicly) that if 9/11 event had happened on Obama's watch you can take it to the bank that McCain and mini-me Graham (and any other Pubbie you'd like to name) would have been in front of the cameras before the fire had been put out saying "This never would have happened if Obama hadn't gutted our intelligence capability. President Bush kept us safe." That's my take on why Obama is scared to death to have any terrorist event while he's in office-NO EXCUSES-just an explanation.

[Cleita]

40. We were outraged but no one listened. Many of us were accused of being unpatriotic.

After all Prez. Bush and Congress were doing this to protect us. Who will protect us from them?

[Fire Walk With Me]

41. Did. Marched. Marched again when a democrat both extended it and added to it. "NDAA section 1021"

[Marr]

43. We were *ALL* against the Patriot Act. Some of us changed our positions, however...

...after Obama was elected.

[wryter2000]

44. People here did n/t

n/t

[closeupready]

45. There we go.

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. You were not around then I guess.

We did, we are...what the fuck are you doing about it?

[DainBramaged]

48. They would of it it had been about red meat, Oreos,caffeine, soda for the poor, or Olive Garden food

the hypocrisy by the majority here is overwhelming...

[LondonReign2]

149. Are you saying people here weren't outraged at the Patriot Act when it intially passed?

[DainBramaged]

152. Where the hell did you get that from?

That's a FAUX news question

[LondonReign2]

154. OK, totally misunderstood your post then

My apologies

[SleeplessinSoCal]

51. I hate Bush and Cheney for everything they stand for, but I was on the fence on wiretapping.

I recall being furious that there was no oversight on The "Patriot" Act, that Valerie Plame was outed, and that Richard Clarke was ignored before 9/11. But I understood that something along these lines would be enacted going forward in today's world of the Internet and cell phones. (I'd never admit it likely in a debate, but questioned how on earth do we get the FBI and CIA to work better together. The NSA didn't register with me that much I guess). Learning curve

[watoos]

52. It's no use arguing about the past

If people are upset about loss of privacy the answer is simple; 1st step, repeal the Patriot Act. I see no politicians on either side moving to do so. Nothing will get changed and the only result of the Snowden-Gate will be that Obama is weakened. It looks to me like the Carlyle Group obtained its objective.

[CrispyQ]

53. I was outraged. Still am.

Still sport this somewhat faded bumper sticker on my truck window.

[HiPointDem]

57. plenty of us did. as if you didn't know that.

[AtheistCrusader]

58. The Picard meme is useful two ways in this context

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Picard as Data's counsel in 'The Drumhead'

[WCGreen]

59. I did....

It was my last outing as a public person who protested and raised my hand.

I knew it was futile but I couldn't stay on the sidelines, even though my health was going to make this a last stand for me.

I stood and prayed with some very close friends because I wanted to be with these folks because I cherished their commitment to passivity.

Later on, I joined a more boisterous group complete with drum circles, knit caps with the flaps and of course the righteousness of youth.

It reminded me of the sixties. Then, I was a just a kid but I would sneak out to be at some of the protests, the main one was the first Earth Day when they put me at the front because the guy running the show wanted some little dudes out front. Me and Richie Shelton felt like we were hippies.

I knew it wouldn't turn the tide because when America gets a hankerin' for war, there is little those of us who realize negotiations and treaties can and often be enough.

I was sick about the Iraq War. Anyone with a thinking brain knew this was mainly about W. showing daddy that he was just as good as Jed.

Sorry for the rambling.

Sometimes you have to take it to the street.

[HardTimes99]

62. WC, I salute your service to the cause of peace. I was right there with you

in spirit. You rock!

[GoCubsGo]

65. Most of the people here were and are still outraged.

But, as for the Bushbots who are whining now, I have been asking the same question. So much for "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about."

[myrna minx]

66. I suggest you look to DU's archives and see that many of us were outraged.

If you consult the DU archives, you'll see that the prevailing attitude was we'd be just as outraged if these programs were implemented by a Democrat.

[toddaa]

69. My outrage predates the Patriot Act. My outrage began with the Clipper Chip

Remember the Clipper Chip? I bet you don't because civil liberties only matter when the GOP is in charge.

[Autumn]

70. I was outraged, as was most of DU and most of the people that

I know.

[felix_numinous]

71. Yea DU started up

back then, and look where our outrage got us... We're still here, but I think we learned that elections alone aren't enough to stop it.

[whatchamacallit]

72. Where does this idiot meme come from?

I remember very few liberals who weren't angered and outraged by Bush's abuses. This meme seems like utter bullshit to me.

[datasuspect]

134. it's a reframe

lies is all they got.

[suffragette]

73. I don't recall Picard ever making such a faulty assumption

[Scurrilous]

75. LOL

[robinlynne]

76. Thank-you!!!! We did.

[Liberal_in_LA]

77. i was oitraged then

[Notafraidtoo]

80. No one on DU supported it.

Every other post was angry at bush for such policy's,The right called us traitors and that we provided aid and comfort to terrorist.But now that They found a way to make the same thing legal not only does half of DU seem to support it but we are now racist for not.

[Logical]

83. LOL, really? No outrage back them. Were you alive? n-t

[Ms. Toad]

85. Here - this gets me expressly back to 2003,

And by implication back to 2001.

The USA PATRIOT Act and Bush Administration actions have curtailed certain Constitutional protections for immigrants and some religious, cultural, and civic groups. U.S. government actions in Afghanistan and the Guantanamo Bay facility have provoked allegations of human rights violations, as has the handling of U.S. citizens designated by the President as “enemy combatants.” The Administration is blurring the lines between foreign intelligence operations and federal, state, and local law enforcement and has proposed greater military involvement in domestic law enforcement. Invasions of individual privacy by the federal government are on the rise. Judicial, congressional, and public oversight of Executive Branch actions have been reduced. The Administration has led the way in all these changes (often with support from a number of members of Congress) in the name of fighting the “war on terror.”

FCNL holds that civil liberties and human rights do not need to be sacrificed to achieve national security. Rather, advancement of civil liberties and human rights at home and abroad is essential to building national and global security. Laws existing before September 11, 2001, if properly implemented and enforced, were sufficient to protect national security without sacrificing civil liberties.

January 2003 Newsletter

I have been involved FCNL continuously for as long as I can remember - at least 4 decades -and have served as a member of the governing body for about 10 of the last 20 years.

Why the f*** can't you stop assuming that we weren't outraged 12 years ago when the Patriot act Started all this s*** to begin with?

[last1standing]

86. Were you here 12 years ago?

I was and quite clearly remember extreme outrage over bush the lesser's push for the Patriot Act, warrantless wiretapping and so many more violations of our Constitutional rights.

More to the point, why are you posting some Damned silly meme about us not being outraged when you have no clue whether we were or weren't? That would seem cynical at the least, wouldn't it? So maybe before you accuse others of hypocrisy you should look to your own actions and ask if you have the moral standing to judge others.

Were you outraged 12 years ago? If not, why not?

[Th1onein]

87. WE DID. Didn't YOU?

[neverforget]

89. I was and am still outraged that this sorry excuse of a bill is being used

as excuse to spy on Americans. I was outraged when Bush did it illegally and now with Obama with a fig leaf of legality.

It's not the governments business who, when and for how long I make a call. Period.

[Union Scribe]

91. If that's aimed at

the GOP's newly found concern for privacy, then all right then. But as you can see, it fails spectacularly when the audience is a bunch of people who have been unhappy with that sort of policy all along.

[Corruption Inc]

93. Anyone who was informed was outraged, what's your point?

Everyone in the country isn't informed about every issue and every minute of every day. However, plenty of people were outraged at the time but we were all told to "move on" and "look forward" when it came time to hold the criminals accountable.

Remember that?

[tblue]

94. I did! Who are you talking to?

All the Dems I know personally were between somewhere between very concerned and outraged. I was outraged. And your point is.....?

[frylock]

95. i joined this site because i was outraged

[JDPriestly]

96. I did.

In fact, I recall sitting with a group of colleagues at a luncheon and complaining about it. I was the only one who had noticed how vague and overly broad the definitions related to terrorists and terrorism, etc. were. I was the only one who noticed or thought there was something wrong. And I was in a group of people who should have all known, who were all supposed to be very familiar with our Constitution.

It was pretty shocking to me then and it still is today.

[liberal_at_heart]

97. I was 25 with two kids under the age of 7. I was a little busy. I did protest the invasion of

Iraq but wasn't fully following all the politics at the time. I am paying full attention now.

[Amonester]

98. I got outraged then because the neocons seemed to be gaining traction

the stupid and criminal neocon ideologues seemed to be just like the rise of the third sh*t

on their way up

looks like they failed miserably since, like all third sh*ts did

that's not to say inequalities didn't go away, climate change isn't a threat, GMOs aren't poisons, nukes and depleted uranium are just a frightening memory, and tearoarists vaporized by magic, but there's nothing of interest in my phonecalls or web activities, really.

[Cobalt-60]

99. I about popped my relief valve

Unfortunately no one would listen.
Our enemies had taken one from the German play book.
Any one against any of Cheny's fascist cr*p was a traitor.

[Luminous Animal]

100. Jean Luc Picard would never ask DUers such an ignorant question.

He would already know that most DUers were well aware and protested 12 years ago. And have that many DUers have continued to protest during these past 12 years.

Have you?

[OrwellwasRight]

101. I did.

Why the fuck weren't you paying attention 12 years ago?

[TakeALeftTurn]

103. I did

.

[TrollBuster9090]

104. Because the Prezdint wasn't a Kenyan Userper 12 years ago. nt

[Sherman A1]

105. I was, however this S#%t

started long before the patriot act.

[Fumesucker]

107. The only people I see getting outraged are the same ones outraged 12 years ago

The right damn sure isn't outraged, neither is the center.

Who the fuck else remains to be outraged, eh?

[Douglas Carpenter]

108. it was one of the major reasons why some of us worked so hard to vote the Republicans out!

[tomp]

110. 12 years?

the govt has been illegally spying on its citizens for much longer than that, certainly at least since j.edgar hoover came around, and likely long before that as well. only the technology has changed.

i've been outraged since i experienced u.s. imperialist govt 101 in the 1960's. however, the democratic party has made it abundantly clear it couldn't give a flying fuck about my outrage, and always has been equally responsible with republicans for continuing and broadening spying programs.

[Nanjing to Seoul]

111. I was, but no one listened.

[lunatica]

113. Speak for yourself

There was plenty of outrage over the Patriot Act. Where the hell have you been?

[LuvNewcastle]

116. I always hated it, but this is how it was defended.

People knew after 9/11 that we were at war, just as surely as the people knew after Pearl Harbor happened. This country has a history of suspending certain rights during wartime. Lincoln did it, Wilson did it, and so did FDR. People accepted it because they thought it would make the prosecution of the war easier and quicker.

Finally people have realized that the War on terror is a war without end. Even our officials won't hazard a guess as to when we'll be done. I think John McCain once said that we would be in Iraq for 100 years. People also are also seeing exactly what the Patriot Act authorized. Remember, no one in the government or the media talked specifics when discussing the Patriot Act. People just thought it was a means of getting tough with the terrorists. They thought it was supposed to suspend their Constitutional rights only, and we know from watching all of the cop shows that criminals have too many Constitutional right as it is, right?

Now people are seeing how the act affects them, and they're getting nervous. But when the next terror attack happens, and there will surely be one, people will discuss it and say that maybe the Patriot Act wasn't such a big deal. Officials will even say that the attack could have been prevented if the act had given them one more power. They'll make appeals to emotion. "We're only trying to keep your family safe, you know. Is there anything you wouldn't give up for your loved ones?"

It's important that all of us here talk about the Patriot Act with our friends and people we encounter. Be educated about it and talk about how it affects all of us. The push to get the Patriot Act repealed will take a long time. People will vacillate on their opinions about it, but in the end, awareness will be the key to ending this before it becomes a real nightmare. We're right about this, and we can stop it if we keep trying.

[Civilization2]

117. Is not the point that Obama could reverse the trend instead of upgrading it?

what a silly point,. most of us that where thinking WHERE outraged then,. and still are since things have only gotten worse, some people <obama> could do something to reverse this trend and have not, they have instead expanded it, and seeked ways to codify it in law, making it "legal",. as you have heard them claim over and over since the leaking began, "but it is all legal now" <rolls eyes>

[Oilwellian]

120. LOL

Forgive me for deflating your ball but that has to be one of the dumbest Photoshops ever. How old are you? 12?

[bullwinkle428]

123. Are you interested in having a conversation about the Patriot Act renewal in 2011?

The President signed it, despite the majority of Democrats in Congress voting against it. People can scream all they want, but the cold hard fact is that this passed as the result of the President's AND Congressional Repukes' actions.

http://politics.nytimes.com/congress/votes/112/house/1/376

[Bradical79]

125. Were people here not outraged?

I didn't know this forum existed then.

[Rex]

126. Why didn't anyone shit their pants when we rebranded ourselves the Homeland?

Or created another monster - the DHS? Answer - people did, but it is funny watching the tea party and concons poo poo all over themselves. NOW it is not funny...but boy howdy was it FUNNY for the concons when GWB was in office!

My my how things change, yet don't.

Not funny now is it!? I guess, like the GOP...the jokes on you!

[Hell Hath No Fury]

127. I was so outraged --

I started a damned website.

Scroll right on through -- several times increased spying is noted, especially in the earliest entries:

http://www.doyouknow.org/topics/civilrights/index.html

[ohheckyeah]

129. Seriously?

There was a lot of outrage. Lots of calls and letters to representatives, petitions, etc.

[RitchieRich]

130. Anyone Watch the Third Party debates?

watching the third party debates (2012) it was striking how much they spoke about it. Especially when considering it was not even mentioned by Obama or Romney.
What defines a liberal anyway? Is it a big capital D? Or is it the actual being a liberal.
My point is that, why did anyone vote for him a second time? I know that's easy for me to say in Maryland where the vote is meaningless, but damn.

[bvar22]

153. I was lucky enough to watch the 3rd Party Debates.

The Patriot Act was only ONE among a bunch of important issues
that both Repubs and Democrats IGNORED throughoput their "debates" and Campaigh 2012.
One had to watch these people in the 3rd Party Debates discuss a stream of important, relevant ISSUES to fully realize how MUCH is NOT being talked about.

Our "Presidential Debates" have been turned into a joke.
They are nothing more than sham Campaign and Marketing Opportunities.
The last REAL Presidential debates were held back in the 80s.

Control of the presidential debates has been a ground of struggle for more than two decades. The role was filled by the nonpartisan League of Women Voters (LWV) civic organization in 1976, 1980 and 1984.[5] In 1987, the LWV withdrew from debate sponsorship, in protest of the major party candidates attempting to dictate nearly every aspect of how the debates were conducted. On October 2, 1988, the LWV's 14 trustees voted unanimously to pull out of the debates, and on October 3 they issued a press release:[9]

[font size=3]"The League of Women Voters is withdrawing sponsorship of the presidential debates...because the demands of the two campaign organizations would perpetrate a fraud on the American voter. It has become clear to us that the candidates' organizations aim to add debates to their list of campaign-trail charades devoid of substance, spontaneity and answers to tough questions. The League has no intention of becoming an accessory to the hoodwinking of the American public."[/font]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_debates

[RitchieRich]

160. Thanks! I'll bookmark your link for 2016

for 2016, when everyone is SHOCKED, just shocked that the exact same thing happens.

When watching the local debates for Maryland Reps (2012 at local community college), there were D, R, and Libertarian. I assumed that the Libertarian would be the only one to mention NDAA. Actually only the Republican mentioned it. I still voted for the D, but barely. It sure put a quick end to my flirtation with/ educating myself about Libertarians, but got me interested in Green.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

132. I was then and I am now.

It's called consistency.

[morningfog]

133. I did. Lord knows I did. I have been against it and the AUMF since the beginning.

[LWolf]

135. I did. Why the fuck do you think I didn't? nt

[TalkingDog]

136. I was. I have been. WHY THE FUCK DON'T YOU LOOK AT THE OLD DU?

[NCTraveler]

137. I was.

I'm sure Obama was as well.

[Bluenorthwest]

139. The OP did not respond to even one post in thread. Uses Picard's face, shows his own ass running

away. It amuses me how the Centrists and Conservatives tend to exploit images of artists and characters that would hate what they are posting as some sort of mask. Can't stand up as themselves, always it's with the TV actors and politicians intended to carry power....

[spanone]

140. because republicans instituted it. they seem to get a pass on most things.

[awoke_in_2003]

141. I did. nt

[October]

143. I did, and I still am.

[OnionPatch]

144. Outraged then, outraged now.

But it does piss me off that so many didn't care a bit back then. I distinctly remember my rightwing brother in law asking what I was worried about if I was doing nothing wrong. Funny, now that a Democrat is in the White House, he's decided to be outraged after all.

[Javaman]

146. I did and protested...

wrote letters and made calls.

And what did I get for my efforts?

probably my phone calls spied on.

[The CCC]

147. Why the fuck...

I did and only the NSA listened.

[krispos42]

148. Ding ding ding.

Well, to give the Republicans credit, in this area they are only 12 years behind.

[99Forever]

150. I did. Next phony excuse...

... why something isn't being done now, please.

[Pholus]

151. I guess Jean Luc (and you) weren't here in 2001-2002 then, huh.

It makes it all the suckier that the election changed nothing.

[raouldukelives]

158. I was. Why weren't you? nt

[Lefty Nast]

161. Wrong is wrong, no matter WHO is doing it.

I voted for the prez twice. He is indeed better than the other guy, but it is wrong to string along with Patriot Act B.S. I don't care WHO is in the White House.

[zeeland]

162. My elected representatives didn't care that

I was outraged.

We're just a bunch of "Honey BooBoos" out here and in DC it's every man/woman
for himself. We need to get someone like Elizabeth Warren in the White House.