Face it. Information gathering, data harvesting, surveillance, whatever you call it--will never end.

[panader0]

In one form or another it's gone on forever, as long as people have had societies.
If we could all persuade Obama to end the Patriot Act, do you really think the various agencies like the CIA, the NRA, the FBI, the banks, the bookstores, the police, the internet, or any groups/agencies will stop? It won't happen.
I bought some flowers for my mom-in-law, and was inundated with spam from flower companies. The various ways people gather info on you are everywhere. This new age of communication has made it even easier.
Do I resent data harvesting? Sure, no one likes someone peeking through the curtains. But everyone seems to be running around in circles of fear over something that will not change. Live in a cave, with no cell phone, no bills, no internet and you may avoid being "spied" on. Sorry, just my opinion. Laws will not change this. Don't live in fear, this shit has gone on forever.

[leftstreet]

1. Can't wait to hear your thoughts on wealth disparity, or the climate...n/t

[allin99]

2. rotfl

[panader0]

6. I'm not sure what that means--

I'm a lifelong Democrat and live at the poverty level. You think because I don't believe a law will change surveillance means I'm a troll, or don't believe in man caused climate change, or that wealth should be shared, then stick it deep.
Seriously, do you think a law passed by Congress is suddenly going to make the NSA behave?

[sibelian]

10. A lifelong Dem, eh?

Well, more power to you sir!

[panader0]

13. Yeah, I'm 62 and have voted Democratic in every election since I was old enough to vote.

You?
Every response here seems to equate me with rapists or climate change deniers, or pro 1%. BULLSHIT!
I don't have my head in the sand on surveillance, That;s all.

[sibelian]

17. Super Duper!

What a marvellous accomplishment! I'll certainly be paying CLOSE attention to YOU! Marvellous!

[panader0]

18. And will you answer? Will the repeal of the Patriot Act stop what's going on?

Snark and nothing more?

[sibelian]

22. Welllll..... suppose you tell me?

You're the expert.

[panader0]

25. As I said in the OP--this is my opinion.

The repeal of the PA won't stop data harvesting. Ask your bank. I'm no expert, but I see you are adept at avoiding a real answer.

[panader0]

9. You gonna answer?

Will the repeal of the law stop surveillance?

[leftstreet]

27. sigh. You're not a lawyer, are you. Look up 'redress'

Citizens do need (and have always needed) the ability and power to remedy their grievances against the wealthy elite.

[panader0]

38. Sigh--

I agree with your comment, but notice you haven't addressed the question. Will repeal of the PA be the end of data harvesting?
Sigh, no one will give their opinion. Agencies such as the FBI, the CIA and the NSA and many more have always been in the spy business. Will the repeal of the PA put an end to that. It is my opinion that it won't Your opinion? Sigh.

[RobertEarl]

48. We can easily end the govt harvesting our lives

It is hard to believe you haven't thought it through. Maybe you did but you forgot it already?

We can end the govt treating us like a number in some data bank by simply:

Not paying for it.

[Puzzledtraveller]

42. it's such a winning attitude isn't it, lol

[panader0]

45. Like your sig line?lol

[Puzzledtraveller]

46. Yeah, it's from a movie, fiction, FICTION

It was something else a few weeks ago.

[panader0]

49. Now here I thought 1984 was a NOVEL, and not a movie.

I guess you learn something new on DU everyday.

[Smarmie Doofus]

3. Neither will peoples' insistence on limited gov't, freedom of speech and right to privacy. n/t

[panader0]

26. Yes, totally agree. The people's insistence of rights will endure forever.

So will spying.

[DiamondDog]

4. Sounds like the old answer given to many women concerning being raped,

Lie back and enjoy it

[panader0]

7. That's a ridiculous stretch of imagination

Do you believe that a law will make something change as to spying? Answer the question, don't insult me with BS.

[sibelian]

11. "Oh really! Certainly not. No. Not at all. That's going too far.

Really. No."

[DiamondDog]

24. If you don't want to be insulted with BS, then don't put BS out there.

It's that simple. As far as exposure of the extent of our surveillance state goes, yes, good can come of that. Believe it or not, there was some reigning in of the CIA in the aftermath of Watergate. The trouble was, after the initial flurry of activity, Reagan took office and there was no follow through.

[panader0]

39. Please explain the BS in my opinion.

That repeal of the PA won't stop data harvesting. That shit went on before the PA, before we were born.
Where's the BS again?

[Skidmore]

5. For the Patriot Act to "end",

Congress would have to repeal it. The President cannot end it by fiat.

[panader0]

8. Agreed of course.

Would the repeal by Congress stop various agencies from gathering info? I don't think so.

[sibelian]

14. "It's the way it is. That's just how things are.

It's the way things have always been. Nothing changes. It's the way the world is. It would be foolish to think otherwise. Nothing will change. It's all normal. It's just part of politics."

[Skidmore]

19. It is the system we have.

It is the process we have. The law can be changed or repealed or ruled unconstitutional. Wishing it away is not an option.

[panader0]

20. Source of your quote?

[sibelian]

23. Source of your suppositions?

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Americans had an old fashioned revolution

Over authoritarian bullshit.

I guess the 33% that was with the crown and the power of the king is back

There is a saying that s on the tip of my tongue...those who don't know history....

[panader0]

15. Did the founding fathers have spies?

C'mon. Be real.
I don't think I know anyone that is more anti-authoritarian than I am. That doesn't change reality.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Your point?

I am being real...last answer from me, so save yourself some effort.

[panader0]

30. "Those who don't know history"

Okay Nadin-when in history did spying NOT occur?

[quinnox]

21. Face it, you need a new crystal ball

I trust your predictions and psychic ability as much as those regularly featured on the cover of the National Enquirer. Sorry, but I always see a red flag when I see things like "This will never change". I'm sure they made the same arguments about things in the past, like slavery for example. And yet, here we are. Things can and do change, and no one can tell when or how.

[Pholus]

28. +1 nt

[panader0]

29. So now I'm a psychic too?

Tell me about the mystical period in history when governments didn't spy, either on other governments or on their own citizens?

[99Forever]

31. Thankfully...

... not all of us are quite so willing to roll over and show belly to authoritarian/surveillance/police state assholes as you are. There will always be surrender monkeys, just as there always has been. Capitulaters and bootlickers have brought us to here.

And then there are those that are of a better moral fiber.

[panader0]

32. What in the fuck makes you think That I'm "rolling over" or a "surrender monkey"?

I notice that you, and many others in this thread have avoided answering the question.
Will repeal of the PA make any difference?
Get your head out of the sand and answer or shove you moral fiber.

[99Forever]

33. Temper temper.

"What in the fuck makes you think That I'm "rolling over" or a "surrender monkey"?

Your own words. You've already given up. If that pisses you off, that's your own personal problem to deal with.

If I have to tell you what my opinion of The Patriot (More like Police State) Act is, then you aren't tall enough for this ride.

[panader0]

34. Please point out where I said that I've already given up?

"My own words"? Good Grief! As I have said repeatedly, I resent the surveillance. I just don't realistically see it ever ending? Do you?
I have always hated the PA, I wish to hell Obama had repealed it when he first took office.
But you avoid the question: Do you think data harvesting will end if the PA is repealed?
Will no one answer? C'mon shorty.

[99Forever]

35. You just did it again.

"I just don't realistically see it ever ending?" Your words, not mine. You failed before you even started.

NGU

NGU

NGU

Till the day they plant me, I will NGU.

[panader0]

36. No answer?

Do you realistically see it ending?
And that NGU shit is wasted on me, I don't know what it means. I do know when someone avoids an answer though.
I mean no harm in this thread. I'm not a rapist, a climate denier, pro one percent or any of the crap that has been thrown my way.
It is my opinion that the repeal of the PA won't stop data harvesting. What, 99Forever, is your opinion on this matter?
I think it'll go on just as it has.

[99Forever]

37. My opinion?

Nothing lasts forever. Police States rot from within and become vulnerable. Read some history, my friend. It happens EVERY time, and every time, The Powers That Be think that they can crush the People. Every time, they are wrong. The question isn't even if, it WILL happen, the only real question is when.

Never Give Up

NGU

[panader0]

40. Okay, I agree that nothing lasts forever. I agree that police states rot from within.

"Read some history my friend"--Tell me when in history that governments did not spy on other governments or on their own citizens.
(Waiting for my history lesson)
Thanks for the definition of NGU. I never give up trying to be happy, I never give up on my hope for social justice, equality, peace.
Spying will always be with us in some way until we have a utopia.
Now, about my question.....will the repeal of the PA change the away the agencies work? Sure, things can be made to be illegal.
Has that ever stopped the CIA?
Peace Okay?

[jjewell]

41. panader0, sorry about the hard time you're having here...

To answer your question: No, repealing the Patriot Act will not end the NSA's spying on anybody.

In case you hadn't noticed, besides informing Americans of the EXTENT of the ongoing spying, Snowden
provided us with something HUGE. That something HUGE is the Verizon Document. You are aware that there
have been, in the past, at least 4 plaintiff lawsuits filed and WON against the NSA over it's spying programs, aren't you?

The problem has been, they have each gone to federal court on appeal, and been thrown out due to plaintiff's lack of "standing".
The reason the plaintiff lacked "standing" was because the plaintiff couldn't PROVE he's been spied on by the NSA. And the reason
plaintiff couldn't PROVE he's been spied upon, was because the spying orders were SECRET and Classified.

Thanks to Snowden's release of the Verizon Document, plaintiffs now have standing to sue the NSA in federal court. Thus the constitutionality of these spy programs will finally be tested and reviewed in federal court, possibly up to the SCOTUS.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." - Fourth Amendment

A ruling of unconstitutionality MAY put an end to this bullshit... But I wouldn't count on it...

[panader0]

43. Thanks for the first thoughtful answer.

I can't claim to know too much about the Verizon Document. I remember the FISA deal under Bush, the retroactive forgiveness of crimes. I remember too how Hoover kept a dossier on Kennedy and Eldridge Cleaver etc etc.
Government spy agencies never have seemed to put much emphasis on being law abiding.
I think that if a ruling of unconstitutionality would put an end to this--well that would be fantastic.
Wishful thinking.

[jjewell]

47. Here's a little "light reading" for you, panader0...

Here is a link to the Verizon Document, which provides federal court "standing" for federal lawsuits against the NSA.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2013/jun/06/verizon-telephone-data-court-order

Here is a link to the federal lawsuit filed by the ACLU against the NSA, which uses the Verizon Document as proof of standing, filed a few days ago...

http://www.aclu.org/national-security/aclu-files-lawsuit-challenging-constitutionality-nsa-phone-spying-program

I'm pretty close to your age, and I remember the bullshit of the last 50 years pretty well too...

At the very least, we should finally get a federal ruling on the constitutionality of domestic spying, and not just some "SECRET RULING" from a "SECRET COURT". Hell, I don't know if the FISA ACT, it's amendment or the FISA Court has ever been challenged in federal court for the constitutionality their existence, due to the same "lack of standing" problem.

Let the court tests begin. Thank you Edward Snowden.

[Savannahmann]

44. I could suggest something that would end it.

Make the penalty Death by Greek Soldier. That would do the trick.