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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsValerie Plame: Edward Snowden Deserves Thanks, 'Will Be Abused'
Former CIA agent Valerie Plame said Wednesday that she views NSA leaker Edward Snowden as neither a hero nor a traitor, but that Americans should be grateful that he brought the conversation about liberty and security to the national forefront.
"I don't think [Snowden's] a hero, I don't condone what he did. At the same time he's certainly not a traitor as he was called by Dick Cheney," Plame told HuffPost Live host Mike Sacks. "In a way, we as U.S. citizens owe Edward Snowden a thank you for having brought this issue to the forefront and so that we can begin to have a serious and genuine conversation about these issues."
Plame also rolled her eyes at Cheney labeling Snowden a traitor, given the Bush administration's involvement in leaking her identity to columnist Robert Novak.
"The irony of people like Dick Cheney or Karl Rove whining and bemoaning the fact of the leak of intelligence -- given my history and certainly Dick Cheney's intimate involvement with the betrayal of my CIA identity -- is really something," she said.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/19/valerie-plame_n_3466824.html?ncid=webmail1
carolinayellowdog
(3,247 posts)not that it will get any from authoritarians who have already disrespected or ignored so many others
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)it in any way, will find themselves joining all the other former respected members of the Democratic Party.
I was told yesterday eg, that Cheney was only supporting Obama to make Obama look bad. Well the part about Cheney supporting you making you look bad is true of course. But the sheer stupidity of that latest talking point is mind boggling. It implies that Cheney actually doesn't support this massive surveillance program. And anyone who thinks that, that he is only saying he does to 'make Obama look bad', has completely lost it imo.
No one can make someone look bad if they are not doing anything wrong. But definitely having Cheney and the rest of the neocons who invented these surveillance program on you side, should cause any decent person to rethink their position.
Dark n Stormy Knight
(9,760 posts)"But definitely having Cheney and the rest of the neocons who invented these surveillance program on you side, should cause any decent person to rethink their position."
This one, however, "No one can make someone look bad if they are not doing anything wrong," is false.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)Submariner
(12,504 posts)She is mine if her old man dumps her.
DFW
(54,405 posts)But as long as my wife doesn't find out, I'm already in line ahead of both of you!
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Submariner
(12,504 posts)I'm jealous. I obviously need to get out more.
Yeah, the world never seems to beat a path to our door, does it?
She is wonderfully nice and unbelievably smart. Easy on the eye, too, but you didn't need me to tell you that.
DFW
(54,405 posts)I think it was my wife who shot that photo, so unless fate is cruel enough to take her from me, Valerie is all yours. Don't even THINK of messing with Joe, though, if he's still in the picture--they are one very devoted couple: a word to the wise and all that .
Submariner
(12,504 posts)I'll just comfort myself over a Mai Tai or two when I retire to Maui next month.
DFW
(54,405 posts)From what I could tell, there are worse places to retire
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)90-percent
(6,829 posts)This needs correction. This time its:
Plame thrown under the bus PART DEUX
-90% Jimmy
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)justice dished out to him that Bradley Manning is getting and that Edward Snowden, no doubt will get in the future? What he exposed was far more sensitive and heinous in nature than what Bradley Manning exposed. Why are his actions not crimes too? He is not a medieval king immune from prosecution for the crimes he commits.
G_j
(40,367 posts)"immune from prosecution for the crimes he commits." I cant help but think of Henry Kissinger still living the privileged life.
With Obama in office, Cheney and gang appear to be immune.
Hoping for a better future..
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)That's the harshest indictment any one in government has made to date against the treasonous slug Cheney.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)marmar
(77,081 posts)I'm sure Valerie Plame is about to get tossed under.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)so there's room for everyone!
Ironically, this is a "speak no evil bus," exactly the sort they will be thrown under.
marmar
(77,081 posts)gholtron
(376 posts)oposed to the redline.
xtraxritical
(3,576 posts)timdog44
(1,388 posts)for the next few months.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)We are a good freedom loving bunch
ProSense
(116,464 posts)...no problem with her quote. I don't think he's a hero. He sparked a debate, but he still committed a crime. One thing is certain, the story is still unfolding.
She says: "Perhaps he could have done it in a different way, but that's not the conversation we should be having."
Well, fleeing the country and his actions in Hong Kong is why he became the story.
Oh, and I definitely agree with her comments on Cheney.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)Marmar will be so disappointed!
where are the attacks on Plame?
flamingdem
(39,313 posts)"He sparked a debate, but he still committed a crime."
Plame is smart. Seems she'd be just fine with him coming home to the good ole USA to face justice.
marble falls
(57,104 posts)out and on the record in the proceedings. I'd like to know if he really is a patriot or not if he has the courage of his convictions, he really does seem to have broken the letter of the law and if the law needs to be changed his testimony will help make it change. Otherwise the issue changes from overweening NSA intelligence gathering to a turncoat's evasion from justice.
kenny blankenship
(15,689 posts)Was John Kiriakou's trial about getting the details of the CIA torture program on the record?
What boundless naivete.
marble falls
(57,104 posts)and keeping that which was classified secret. His defense is that there were pieces of information being kept secret that had an over riding need to be exposed to the US public. And then there are also those specific charges he's already plead 'guilty' to. Arguing that defense will require making a record of those secrets. I think I have a real good grasp of the situation, thankyou very much.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)He did not become a story because he went to Hong Kong, at least not for me.
Edward Snowden is not the story. The story is the surveillance which chills the exercise of many of our rights and is therefore, in my opinion, probably unconstitutional.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,174 posts)Well, fleeing the country and his actions in Hong Kong is why he became the story.
Its a bait and switch tactic used by the MSM all the time. Just like the story is not (cannot be) about the revelations Manning exposed...the story is reshaped into being about how technically he broke the law, or that he must be mentally unstable with gender issues, or else its about how Assange is an arrogant sexual deviant and Wikileaks is not a real journalistic enterprise, or any other tangent that will take the focus off of what was actually revealed and having a debate around that.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)warrprayer
(4,734 posts)wrote a great song fo her
Hydra
(14,459 posts)People like Plame, Manning and Snowden vilified and abused because of the truth coming out.
Meanwhile, the worst of us live without fear of their highly illegal actions.
Down is Up.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)by tinfoil hat according to another on DU. Whatever!
"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)KoKo
(84,711 posts)Autumn
(45,107 posts)DirkGently
(12,151 posts)That's about the size of it.
Prepare to be re-outed by Cheney and the Cheney-esque, Ms. Plame.
Response to Generic Other (Original post)
pscot This message was self-deleted by its author.
Quixote1818
(28,946 posts)kitt6
(516 posts)Americans need one great big Nerve, anxiety pill!
Uncle Joe
(58,366 posts)Thanks for the thread, Generic Other.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)kitt6
(516 posts)are laughing at you!
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)people's personal information, it is Valerie Plame. Thanks to her for speaking out. She still has not received the justice she deserved. Maybe some day.
And Cheney is too stupid to keep his nose out of our business, he appears to forget that he is no longer President, I know, but Dubya was just window dressing. When he opens his mouth in support of something you oppose, you know you are on the right side.
I believe his ratings around the globe are in the low single digits. He is widely viewed as an unindicted War Criminal, a liar, a traitor for what he did to Valerie Plame not to mention all the crimes he committed.
Some day justice will be done, it may take time, but it will. They have created too many victims and while they want people to forget, they look at S. America, 40 to 50 years later, finally people are getting the justice that eluded them for so long.
timdog44
(1,388 posts)was outed, feloniously, treasonously by Dick Cheney, Karl Rove and the unforgotten traitor, Robert Novak.
She has taken a very reasonably tack to say Snowden was not a hero nor a traitor. I agree with that. The information he exposed is the subject and should always be. All these people making Snowden more important than the story just reinforces his motives, in my opinion.
Hopefully justice will be done to the traitors Cheney, Rove and Novak.
But on to the subject of the day and hopefully of a long time to come. The spying, illegal spying, of Americans. And even worse by the mercenary groups the government has outsourced this to. Mercenaries are bottom feeders, selling their wares to the highest bidder. Surveillance in America should only be done judiciously and legally by American government persons.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)K&R
Nanjing to Seoul
(2,088 posts)Bachmann in 5. . .4. . .3. . .2. . .1
After all, Snowden ran to Hong Kong!
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)After what they did to Bradley Maning who would stay here?
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Don't think that the same shit doesn't happen in civilian jails and prisons.
If you're on the shit-list (and I have ZERO doubt that Snowden is), they'll be doing lots of harassment. In Bradley Manning's case, it was declaring him "suicidal", throwing him in the Hole, stripping him naked and harassing him every 15 minutes, 24/7 for months and months.
Maybe what would happen to Snowden would be a different, depending on circumstances, but just as much psychological torture. Snowden's marked as an enemy of the (police) state, therefore standing orders are to make his life complete hell.
kenny blankenship
(15,689 posts)Snowden would have been whisked to Gitmo or some other military brig within 24 hrs of his disclosures if he had remained within reach. There are very few places where he would be safe from immediate apprehension or assassination. Ellsberg remained free on bail during the course of his trial and was able to defend himself in the court of public opinion and could contest the things the government said about him. Compare that to Bradley Manning's 900 plus days kept in cruel and inhumane conditions before receiving a trial. We live in a completely different time.
According to Ellsberg, Snowden was smart to get out of the country. If he had leaked like Ellsberg did, his anonymity would have been blown instantly by the govt's review of Greenwald's contacts. It would not be a matter of a journalist or a newspaper being unable to hold out against the govt's demands for the leaker's identity. The government would not need their cooperation. Snowden would have been arrested immediately and he would be stashed somewhere out of the way where he'd be unable to tell his story. His revelations would be quickly buried, and his right to a fair and speedy legal process ignored. Anything he had on the NSA that he failed to dump on the public in his first batch of disclosures would never get out at all.
kitt6
(516 posts)Investigate the Carlyle Group!
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)Vietnameravet
(1,085 posts)They should be put in the same cell as Snowden and the rest of the criminals..
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)which is why he was convicted of 'obstruction of justice'.
As for Snowden, democracies don't put Whistle Blowers in jail.
midnight
(26,624 posts)bullwinkle428
(20,629 posts)made last week right here at DU!
The one that compared Snowden's actions to Cheney's exposure of Valerie Plame...
K&R.
AndyA
(16,993 posts)She put her life on the line for this country, and knows first hand what government is capable of doing. That makes her very qualified to comment on this sort of thing as far as I'm concerned.
I agree with her: Snowden isn't exactly a hero, nor is he a traitor. We do owe him gratitude for allowing this issue to be discussed and hopefully resolved in a manner that everyone can live with.
timdog44
(1,388 posts)is - How many overseas agents were executed or disappeared because of what Cheney, Rove and Novak did?
AndyA
(16,993 posts)No doubt, outing Plame put a lot of other people at risk, including those who trusted the U.S. Government enough to help with information. So much for fighting terrorism, I'll bet a lot of people clammed up quick once they saw what happened to Plame.
Bushco should be prosecuted for war crimes and for crimes against the state. (But of course that's off the table.)
timdog44
(1,388 posts)he and his fellow traitors are afraid to go to,
Progressive dog
(6,905 posts)"I don't think a hero, I don't condone what he did. At the same time he's certainly not a traitor as he was called by Dick Cheney,"
I don't see any of the Snowden, Greenwald worship there.
" that we can begin to have a serious and genuine conversation about these issues."
I don't see any rush to place blame on the President either.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)and thank you Valerie Plame.
Logical
(22,457 posts)blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts).