Old Men---Please don't do this.

[trumad]

Please don't give fashion advice to young women who make you errrr uncomfortable with what they wear.

And please---don't tell mothers how to dress their teenage daughters.

Because quite frankly---it's none of your fucking business and its kind of creepy.

[Scuba]

1. "Kind of". Damn, you're polite.

[morningfog]

2. Good advice to creepy old men.

[FrodosPet]

62. And they need to quit trying to pick up people young enough to be their children

If you are over 40, quit hitting on 20 somethings. They are disgusted, not turned on, by 99+% of us.

[Phentex]

64. This was a topic on a radio show recently...

lady was 24, man was 44 and going through a divorce. He was about to move so wasn't looking for anything serious. She is looking for someone serious. I found it odd that she would want to go out with him at all but to each his own.

[Flatulo]

114. If ever I'm tempted to flirt with a younger female, it always helps

me to think about how I'd feel if my 88 y/o mother-in-law were to hit on me. Creepy.

I'm 57 and even though I could pass for 50, I do act my age and try to avoid making an idiot out of myself. However, young(er) women, 35 to 45, do seem to enjoy chatting with me. I've been told I'm very engaging in person and have a warm personality.

It's hard to be 100% sure where the line is between flirting and chatting, so I try to stay well on the safe side.

[maddiemom]

188. A dozen years younger at 45, not too bad. Over fifteen or twenty years younger?

Are you dismissing anyone within a few years of your age as too old for you? (If you KNOW their real age?) More middle aged men are staying in shape than used to, while women have long been more inclined to do so. A pot-gut older man with a much younger wife is admired, while a gorgeous woman of the same age is considered to have a "boy toy" with a younger man. I may only be speaking for my divorced, aging female self, but I've seen a lot of problems in seriously committing to any of the men of whatever age who've been interested since my divorce. NOTHING has ever had to do with wanting someone younger.

[Flatulo]

215. That's a tough double-standard to break. Indeed, there's even a not-so-flattering name for

older women who date younger men.

Personally, I don't care what other people do, but speaking only for myself, I wouldn't be comfortable with an age difference of more than 10 years or so in either direction. Much more than that and there's an increasing likelihood of major disconnects in tastes. But who knows? Maybe love conquers all. I've never been been there, as my wife is a just a few months younger than me, and there's a dearth of twenty-somethings camped out on my doorstep.

You have to shake your head though at an old fossil like Hugh Hefner marrying a 23 y/o. I'm sure she just adores his wrinkled old prune ass.

[maddiemom]

244. I much enjoyed your reply.

I suspect your lucky wife wouldn't have to worry even IF you had a lot of twenty somethings camped out on your doorstep. Hugh Hefner became a joke at least twenty years back. Unfortunately I think his message (the younger the better chicks) burrowed into the subconscious of even more evolved men. Some of them, at least. I'm one of those twenty year faithful wives whose husband (a long 'nother story) got off on other men hitting on her because he knew I was faithful. Since my prior most serious relationship was with a jealous type, I took his attitude as positive for far too long before examining it as a bit sick. He left me for a much younger woman who wasn't that attractive to other men. What does this mean? I have no idea!

[Flatulo]

259. I can't speak to your ex's motives, but I think many men enjoy the chase above all else.

It's 'old brain' stuff - the need to spread your DNA far and wide.

I was never much of a philanderer. I've been with exactly two women in 57 years. My wife is a very nice lady, and I couldn't imagine being with anyone else.

[CrispyQ]

251. ~LOL to your last sentence!

Reminds me of an episode of Sex & the City where Samantha decides she's ok with having sex with a 70 year old, rich guy, until she see's his butt.

I agree, 10 years either way is about the limit for me. I'm afraid I would embarrass a younger person when I started flashing my peace sign.

[Flatulo]

257. I remember that exact episode! When the old guy picked her up, he said something like...

"I've got a penthouse apartment and a pocketful of Viagra."

Classic.

[CrispyQ]

260. I loved that show!

He wasn't a bad looking old guy, but I'm 55 & he was too old for me.

[Flatulo]

262. Yeah, he was a handsome old gent, and perhaps they even used a stunt ass, but the point

was sure driven home.

[dotymed]

250. I am 52 and in failing health.

I am not wealthy, yet for some odd reason I occasionally get "hit on" by young ladies as young as my daughter (and I am 28 years older than my daughter). Maybe it is the "father complex" because I am just an average looking guy. I usually find it just as "creepy" as this this young lady does. Sometimes I find it flattering, depending on how they conduct themselves. I am not into one night stands
and I would not be interested in a long term relationship with someone young enough to be my daughter.
I know that it is still more common for older men to hit on young ladies but sometimes it is the "old guy" who is made to feel uncomfortable.

[Flatulo]

258. Funny you should mention that... I retired a few years ago with a bad back. I walk with a

cane now, and I've noticed that all kinds of people are just... nicer to me. Opening doors, letting me cut the line (which I never do), smiling at me... I think the disability brings out the empathy in people.

Even so, I give the young women plenty of distance.

[Johnny Noshoes]

115. Seriously man....

I'm 59 - I wouldn't even think of a 30 something woman let alone a 20 something - really. Some guys are just sad. Hell I've a clock radio that's over 30 years old.

[Codeine]

210. I actually own a t-shirt older than the woman to whom I'm engaged.

She's significantly less threadbare.

[Johnny Noshoes]

239. nt.

[CrispyQ]

252. "Hell I've a clock radio that's over 30 years old."

There are some good laughs in this thread!

[grahamhgreen]

128. HAHA, it is they that do the hitting on, my dear!

[Neoma]

185. I'm married to a man 20 years older than me.

And it was I who captured him, not the other way around. It's just about as much business to you as to what I'm wearing.

[maddiemom]

190. Hope he wasn't married at the time. Otherwise,good for you.

[Neoma]

192. He's only been married to one woman, me!

What an insulting comment.

[maddiemom]

195. Not at all insulting. Just askin.' You're taking too personal offense

considering the usual situation with that age difference. Good for both of you if this is a first marriage or well after a divorce on either part. You just sounded as it was some great triumph for you--not a very equal romance if age difference was the factor you jumped on.

[Neoma]

196. Think of how many times I've heard, "robbed the cradle."

Then get back to me on that.

I married my best friend, and people have gone as far as calling him a pedophile.

[maddiemom]

197. I think we were thinking in two different directions. Continued happiness to the two of you.

My own adult daughter had a long, serious involvement with a man (twice divorced) nearly twenty years her senior. They still are professionally associated and good friends.

[Neoma]

198. Thank you.

... I get pretty mad at ageism in either direction. I've taken it on as a battle cry since I was 15. Or around the time I wanted to vote against Bush actually.

[Texasgal]

226. Yup.

My husband and I have have almost 13 years between us. He's older.

Same scenario, I captured him as well. And you are correct... it's no one else's business but our own!

Congrats to you for a loving relationship!

[Codeine]

209. HA! My fiancee is twenty years younger than I am, and she doesn't seem disgusted by me at all.

Maybe I'm just extra-awesome?

[FrodosPet]

211. YMMV

Your mileage may vary.

If the younger person is flirting with the older one, it's not so much of an issue. But when creepy old farts make younger people nervous, and the younger people are openly scared and/or disgusted by the unwanted attention, it needs to stop.

It's just one short step away from rape, and maybe not even that far from it. No means no for eyes and minds as well as hands and penises.

[Chemisse]

219. I don't see how some old codger looking at a young woman is close to rape

is even close to rape. In public, people have the right to look where they want and think what they will.

If it is creepy, we women just need to let the person know it is unwelcome, then move on (unless it is in a work or school setting, of course). It is good practice (and a necessary eye-opener) that prepares us to deal with unwanted attention of the more dangerous type.

[Arkansas Granny]

242. When one person finds the attention of another person to be scary

or disgusting, it usually isn't because of their age.

[Flatulo]

264. It's kind of established that there is a limited expectation

of privacy when one is in public.

If one wishes to walk about provocatively clad in public, people are going to look and there's not much anyone can do about it.

It's this limited expectation of privacy that allows the paparazzi to exist.

[former9thward]

223. If they were disgusted they would never respond.

Many do respond which is why men do it.

[MillennialDem]

263. I'm lesbian and 33 today. Perfectly ok with a man 10 years either way hitting on me, but

Old enough to be dad?

Barf.

[Flatulo]

268. I think it's possible that what you may take as a 'response' to flirting is actually a reluctance to

be 'rude'. Some women aren't comfortable telling men that they're not comfortable. Our culture teaches women that being 'bitchy' is not OK.

If I were ever in such a situation, I would proceed very carefully and look for clear, unmistakable signs of interest, like a suggestion to hang out or some flirtatious light touching initiated by her.

And I use 'you' in the generic sense, not You personally.

[RetroLounge]

229. How is that any more your business than fashion?

RL

[Springslips]

245. Excuse me!

I am not in the habit of "hiting on woman" anyways, but I will date who I damn want, provided that she wants to date me. I just turned 40 this month, and I am seeing a 25-year old off and on.Through my 30 I often get hit on by and dated 20-something's. if I do decide to hit on someone, that's my choice and I will take it as I please, if my advancement is unwelcome than reject me, just like any other.

This is a special case of ageism, no different from those that believe interacial dating is creepy. Or that homosexuals shouldn't hit on people, or any number of toxic ideas that are everywhere in this sick, sick culture of ours.

[Buzz Clik]

131. MineralMan is not a creepy old man.

There are people, however, who are quick to see creepy where creepy doesn't exist.

I suppose it's a matter of perspective.

[Agnosticsherbet]

3. The only benefit to being old is Curmudgeonly Cantankerousness.

If we can't give you the benefit of the wisdom we never learned from our mistakes, we just sour in our own bile.

[redqueen]

4. OMG!

[MineralMan]

5. Thanks for referring to my thread. Here's a link to it:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023055167

I appreciate your reference to it, along with your advice to me, of course. I'll give it careful consideration. You can be certain of that.

[JustAnotherGen]

28. Okay - giving Trumad

A rec - because it was fair.


But - I know you weren't turned on. I also feel - that the sexualization of Little Girls is going too far these days.

Suddenly my Daisy Dukes when I was 19 with cowboy boots and body suit on a Friday night seems kind of 'modest' compared to how some folks are dressing their 10, 11, 12 year old children these days.

[Arkansas Granny]

44. I didn't make a reply to your original thread, but I have to agree with you on this one.

I'm a female old fart with a daughter, granddaughters and great-granddaughters. Why any mother would allow her daughter to wear suggestive and revealing clothing is beyond my comprehension, but I see teen and pre-teen girls wearing outfits that I felt were absolutely inappropriate for girls that age, or any age, to be wearing out in public. Maybe it's none of my business, but we are, unfortunately, judged by our physical appearance and very often the behavior of others toward us is influenced by that.

I don't advocate bringing out the burkhas or hiding our young girls behind closed doors, but how can we teach them self respect and acceptance of their own bodies if we allow them to dress as sex objects?

[redqueen]

58. I'm going to give you the same suggestion I gave MM in his thread.

And I would suggest the same for anyone who finds any of this at all surprisig.

Watch Sexy Baby.

http://www.sexybabymovie.com/

[A Simple Game]

164. I didn't watch the movie, I'm not into that stuff, but I did watch the trailer.

Even the young girls think that kind of dress and attitude are slutty and say so.

So what is your point? Do you watch a lot of that kind of "documentary"? I remember seeing trailers for "documentaries" about nudist camps back in the early '60s. Seems this movie serves the same purpose for a different demographic.

[redqueen]

168. Young girls who use words like "slutty" can be excused due to ignorance.

Did someone in the trailer actually use that word?

And why are you putting the word 'documentary' in scare quotes?

As for my point, if you actually watched the trailer and read my previous post it should be obvious.

[A Simple Game]

200. You pimp it but don't watch it? It's only about 2 minutes long.

As for documentary, that's how the XXX genre got it's start on the big screen as documentaries.

[redqueen]

204. "Pimp", huh. Yeah, I see.

I did watch it, a while ago. This may shock you, but I didn't actually memorize the trailer.

Your word choice and refusal to answer questions tells me all I need to know about you.

[A Simple Game]

207. Refusal to answer what question? As far as I can see you only asked two.

The first:

Did someone in the trailer actually use that word?

From my first post #164:

Even the young girls think that kind of dress and attitude are slutty and say so.

I assumed because I had mentioned watching the trailer that most people would know that I took what the young girls say from the trailer. I hope this clarifies that.

The second:

And why are you putting the word 'documentary' in scare quotes?

If you didn't understand the implication from:

As for documentary, that's how the XXX genre got it's start on the big screen as documentaries.

Mainstream pornographic movies got their start as "documentaries". I will be as blunt as I can, in my opinion, I think you are promoting pedophilia when you ask people to watch the movie you are promoting. Plain and simple.

[Squinch]

265. You are seeing the trailer for that documentary as akin to triple x films? Okie dokie, then.

[A Simple Game]

266. I am seeing that trailer as akin to how pornographic films got their mainstream start, yes.

Pornographic films got their start in part as nudist documentaries. This trailer looks to me like nothing more than a foothold for child pornography.

[Squinch]

269. Well, gosh. How odd of you.

[Bonobo]

228. I must admit to being confused by some people's mixed signals on this issue.

If women dressing a certain way is not an invitation to look at them or to talk to them (as they often say), then why is it anyone's business to make those kind of judgments about how a girl dresses?

How is that different than slut-shaming?

[CrispyQ]

255. From the trailer:

Nicole, 32, a dancer/stripper, "The adult entertainment world has completely infiltrated the mainstream. I do blame that on the digital age."

Two young girls, twelve or thirteen, sitting in front of a computer looking at a plastic surgeon's before & after photos on the web, & agreeing that the patient "definitely needed some labia surgery."

The young girl at the end, speaking, "We're like the first generation to have what we have, so there's no one before us that can kind of guide us. I mean, we are, the pioneers."


Looked for it on Netflix. Like so many documentaries, it's not available.

[NaturalHigh]

214. Agreed.

Sometimes it's just a matter of common sense.

[kestrel91316]

45. For the record, I saw nothing wrong with your original thread and comments.

And I'm a woman.

I find the way some young women AND MEN dress to be completely inappropriate.

[leftynyc]

104. I completely agreed with you and

didn't feel for even a second you were turned on by that kid. I also think this thread is nothing but someone trying to get attention.

[MineralMan]

129. Even when I was a kid, I wasn't turned on by 12 year olds.

Below high school age is inappropriate, even for high schoolers. Kids are kids, and never sexually attractive to normal people.

[leftynyc]

180. They called my mom into

school because they found me and my boyfriend holding hands during recess. I was 10. I'm not sure that counts.

[MineralMan]

199. Well, that is just pervy...

[leftynyc]

205. Mom was pissed....

at the school. When she was told, in answer to her question, whether our clothes were all on and was told yes, she reamed them out for calling her for such a stupid reason. I'm sure you'll not be surprised to know that the boy's parents were not called. This was 1970.

[hamsterjill]

125. I didn't see anything wrong with your thread either.

And I think it was in poor taste for the original poster to start this thread.

I did not take your comments in that first thread to be anything suggestive in any way, shape, form or fashion. Sometimes, things just astound me by the direction they go here on DU these days.

But, to each his own.

[MineralMan]

126. Thanks. I suppose it has to do with something other than

the content of the post, actually.

[denverbill]

137. I agree on both counts.

[calikid]

213. Me too

[NaturalHigh]

232. I second that.

I think some people just have their outrage meters set a little high.

[Buzz Clik]

133. BAD MineralMan! BAD! BAD! BAD!

Your opinion on this subject is not welcome at DU. EVER.

However, you can be told that you are a pervert, child molesting, pedophile, and that's okay.

(Dude, I warned you. )

[MineralMan]

147. Like water off a duck's back it flows.

For some folks, my opinion on any subject is not welcome.

I think it is inappropriate for children to wear clothing that mimics adult clothing that is designed to make the adult desirable. I have always thought that. From the kiddie beauty pageants to the use of children to advertise adult fashions, I find it distasteful. I have always found it distasteful.

I can write about my opinion here, and I probably will many more times, on many different topics, regardless of the objections of some to my very presence here. I'm not any of those things you listed, as anyone who knows me will attest. That someone who doesn't know me implies that I am one of those is irrelevant to me.

[Buzz Clik]

151. Well, I've got a couple things to say about that:

1. You know I agree with the original OP.
2. I have been defending your opinion and your right to air it. (Though, you're a big boy and don't need my help)
3. Better you than me.

[MineralMan]

155. Thanks, Buzz. I knew that.

I appreciate your support and your disagreements with me, as well. You handle them both very well. I'm not afraid of controversy at all, and never have been, so DU fills that need, too.

[lumberjack_jeff]

157. That is the only way for "old guys" to survive around here.

Go with the wrench, cuz Fuck 'em, that's why.

[morningfog]

203. "That someone who doesn't know me implies that I am one of those is irrelevant to me."

Kind of like judging a mom you don't know in the airport?

[BainsBane]

162. Although I have to admit to feeling a bit puzzled

about how the younguns dress these days, I have to agree with the OP. It really isn't our business how other people dress their kids.

[KentuckyWoman]

238. I thought it was about that TSA agent...........

I need to get out more...........

[quinnox]

6. thank you

I had the same reaction as you, but didn't comment. It was creepy.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

256. Yep. I stayed out of MM's Aqualung thread.

[Sheldon Cooper]

7. heh

[snooper2]

8. You know what is kind of creepy trumad?

Mothers who let their daughters dress like this in public-

[leftstreet]

17. What do find objectionable about that?

They look like little kids

[RILib]

19. Are those bathing suits?

[Phentex]

66. They look like bathing suits to me

but I have boys so what the hell do I know?

[LadyHawkAZ]

79. They are

which leads to the question: what WOULD be considered appropriate attire for a public pool or beach?

[Warpy]

119. They are, but it's the rest of the outfit

that makes them creepy, the jackets, grownup purses, arm candy dog. If they'd been posed with beach balls and sand pails, it would have given an entirely different message.

Context is everything.

[RILib]

142. I'm having a disconnect

Nothing wrong with bathing suits, but paired with patent leather purses? Where are they anyway?

[Phentex]

202. a posh pool party in Burbank...

this was a paparazzi picture to promote the swimwear.

[CTyankee]

20. hmm, where did you find that photo?

[snooper2]

53. google pictures

same place I found this one-

[Rex]

100. Okay, better.

You managed to actually find something disturbing. Is this what you do all day at work?

[snooper2]

103. Not all day, been on a conference call for 2.5 hours already

Listening to a vendor pitch a monitoring solution that is pathetic-


Well, I shouldn't say pathetic, good for mid-size Enterprise type customers-

But our RFI said CARRIER CLASS lol

[Rex]

108. Ugh. That is way too long

I would probably be counting the ceiling tiles within an hour. A 2.5 hour sales pitch for something you are not interested in, is 2.5 hours too many.

[Rex]

98. .

Brings a whole new meaning to his username.

[skydive forever]

22. The one on the left

looks a lot like my granddaughter, and you can bet if she wore that, I'd have a talk with my daughter (her mother)

[brett_jv]

206. No, you are not allowed ...

That's creepy, by definition, according to OP

[uppityperson]

71. Seriously. The shiny purse is too much, as is the HUGH Headpiece on the right one, not to mention

Dark red nail polish is SO last year.

[Scootaloo]

96. To say nothing of the bichon frise!

What a gauche little dog!

[Phentex]

82. THAT'S MILEY CYRUS' little sister promoting bathing suits...

I blame the dad!

[Rex]

94. There is desperation and then there is Devils Advocate.

Looks like pure desperation imo.

[Rex]

90. They are swimming suits!

That is a huge amount of desperation on your part. I suppose you don't go to the beach much.

[TrogL]

140. Cute dog. They both could use a trip to the orthodontist

What am I supposed to be looking at?

[derby378]

161. Ye Gods...

I'm having a Toddlers & Tiaras flashback.

There was this French lingerie designer who created a line of underwear for girls around two years ago that looked very - sensual. Even erotic. I'm sure the designer didn't mean any harm, but I'm thinking if you're a 12-year-old girl, you are already going through an awkward enough phase in your life with puberty, self-image, and so on without having to worry about whether or not your panties make your butt look frumpy. Childhood is too short as it is; can we at least take a step back as a species and try to avoid sexualizing children?

[Hissyspit]

176. And... OP's point proven.

Congratulations.

And I'm a 50-year-old guy. I don't even completely agree with the OP, but you've creeped me out.

[L0oniX]

253. ...and let them play with this...

[BainsBane]

271. Why can't people just mind their own

Business?
Dress yourself and your kids how you want. Otherwise, MYOB.

[jollyreaper2112]

9. Whatever age and gender you are -- please don't do this

Don't try to geezer-shame someone just for expressing an opinion. That's ageist, misanthropic, and harms the ozone layer.

[RoccoR5955]

10. Hey you kids...

Get off of my lawn!

[Initech]

25. And pass the butter!

[Recursion]

11. Damn

Warn us beforehand; I had soda in my mouth.

[MrYikes]

12. I'm trying to understand

when young, we were told to "speak only when spoken to", okay so we kept quiet.
then when working we were told, "keep your mouth shut and your eyes open and you'll do okay", so we kept quiet.
And now that we are old we are being told to keep quiet because we are creepy.

Ya know, maybe if we had not kept quiet we would not be leaving such a screwed up mess for you. Of course, like you said, it's none of my fucking business.

[narnian60]

21. +1 nt

[liberal_at_heart]

26. how is what young people wear part of the screwed up mess that we're in?

[MrYikes]

34. I not really supposed to comment, but

since you asked, it is part of our culture. Culture belongs to all of us, in that we all have a part in it.

Years ago in Africa women wore no tops, our culture came in persuading them to wear tops and they quickly started wearing tops that aroused interest in their breasts. Rape increased quickly. It would be very easy to blame the men, which in effect is what you are trying to do here, but if you were able to look a little deeper, you might be able to see something else at work.

But do please remember that it is none of my fucking business.

[redqueen]

39. WHAT THE FUCK

they quickly started wearing tops that aroused interest in their breasts. Rape increased quickly. It would be very easy to blame the men, which in effect is what you are trying to do here, but if you were able to look a little deeper, you might be able to see something else at work.

[uppityperson]

78. Getting raped was the women's fault for covering their breasts. Seriously, wtf

[brett_jv]

208. I don't think that was their point ...

I believe their point was that it's 'our' (western) culture's 'fault' for making the women cover their boobies.

A stupid supposition on it's face ... however, it's significantly less offensive than 'blaming the woman', imho.

[JustAnotherGen]

217. Now I've seen it all here

we really read this . . .right redqueen? No wonder my buddy left.

[liberal_at_heart]

42. You are entitled to your opinion. I even think you are entitled to express your opinion, but I

strongly disagree with your opinion. Rape has to do with taking a woman's power away. It has nothing to do with sex or with what the woman is wearing.

[ismnotwasm]

43. So, another 'men can't control themselves' comment.

Yikes.

[MrYikes]

50. ummm, that's MR Yikes to you.

Is that really what this thread is about?

Whoops, I almost forgot,,,,it's none of my fucking business.

[1monster]

47. If a man rapes a woman, then it is the man's fault, not the woman's. Period. Stop.

Even if the woman is stark naked, it is no excuse for rape.

[fishwax]

63. "Rape increased quickly. It would be very easy to blame the men ... but ..."

[Matariki]

67. Yeah, actually maybe you SHOULD keep quiet

sheesh. That was one of the most disgusting posts I've seen in a long time. You were almost making a point - about culture belonging to all of us. But then you stepped in something really stupid and reprehensible - 'wearing tops that aroused interest in their breast' as a cause of rape!!!

Grow up man. Educate yourself.

[Sheldon Cooper]

92. ...

[uppityperson]

77. "something else at work"? Men raped women because women covered their breasts? Wtf.nt

[liberal_at_heart]

85. no they raped them because they started wearing push up bras apparently. Because no one in Africa

was ever raped until the women started dressing too sexy.

[Rex]

106. That is a pants load of garbage.

'Years ago in Africa'? I have to agree with you, maybe you should keep quiet. That is some horrible garbage you posted and not true at all.

I've seen some crazy shit posted here...but yours deserves a trophy of some kind.

[Posteritatis]

175. That's a post-Panamax tankerload of garbage, not just a pantsload. Gah. (nt)

[L0oniX]

254. Well it's legal to go topless in NYC so we will see how that works out.

[redqueen]

37. +1

[Egalitarian Thug]

32. The ubiquitous voice of the authoritarian. Some of us have never listened to it,

and go so far as to question it. We are generally not very popular.

[RC]

36. +10

That is another advantage of bein' old. We can speak our minds, because more than likely we have had years more experience with whatever subject than that naïveté, young whipper snapper that's tryin' to tell me what' what. S/He hasn't had time to learn what' what yet.
The nerve of trying to do that on my lawn. Go do it on someone's elses lawn.

Did I tell'em or what?

[tularetom]

13. Was he a perv for noticing or just for commenting on it?

I'm an old fart too but I have granddaughters and great granddaughters and I want to know when I should kick some other old fart's ass.

[madinmaryland]

14. Especially...

Old men who have not had children of their own.

Oh, and IBTL!

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

15. .

[The Link]

18. Creepy indeed.

Rec.

[RadiationTherapy]

23. One does not need to sexualize children in order to see this society

(media, fashion, music, etc) sexualizes children.

[SCVDem]

24. Black shoes and black sox

and bony white legs!

Don't do it!

[riqster]

38. What's worse than that:

Sandals worn with white tube socks.

[Fumesucker]

75. Nope, sandals with black dress socks dangling from sock suspenders

[jberryhill]

109. Hey! Now you're getting personal

Lay off my fashion statement.

[tosh]

56. ...

[Half-Century Man]

224. I don't have another pair of legs..

...do you play a lot of legos star wars?

[cliffordu]

27. But it's ok for young men to do it?

Your boundaries are kinda creepy

[JustAnotherGen]

29. I thought you were going to say

Mow your lawn without your shirts on. Can I add that?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

30. Some date back to this...

[Recursion]

35. I find 1920s fashion very sexy

This reminds me of Werner Herzog's distinction between erotic and obscene.

[KittyWampus]

49. totally with you Recursion. Erotic art leaves room for the imagination. Porn gives you everything

in your face to be consumed as is.

Shunga art gets me going while pix of a guy looking like an airbrushed insect does nothing for me.

[Recursion]

55. Thank you! totally agree

The brain is still the most important erogenous zone.

[liberal_at_heart]

54. I think both old and new styles can be sexy. There is nothing wrong with showing skin. There is

also nothing wrong with covering it up if one so choses. That is why we live in America. We can wear what we like to wear and whether someone else likes it or not is irrelevant.

[Doc Holliday]

139. Interesting POV.

How do you feel about the losers who like to show us their boxers and think it's a fashion statement?

(Actually, one could say that it is a fashion statement...it simultaneously says, "I don't know shit about fashion," and "I plainly have problems dressing myself.&quot

[Spitfire of ATJ]

171. I feel nothing says "tough guy" like a crotch around the knees....

....makes climbing a chain link fence a real comedy act though.

[RILib]

144. Swimwear is already plural.

[lumberjack_jeff]

152. Unless is is meant to be worn during multiple swim sessions, in which case it is swimswears.

I no longer feel comfortable in mine so I call it swamswears.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

170. I'm gonna do the "drink, drank, drunk" thing next for sport.

[totodeinhere]

31. I sense some ageism in your comment.

What does age have to do with it? Shouldn't your admonition apply to everyone, not just old men?

[Egalitarian Thug]

33. Specific to another post.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3055167

[totodeinhere]

41. Thank you. I wasn't aware of that other thread. Perhaps the OP should have linked to

it so that we could be sure to understand the context. But having now seen that thread, I still don't understand the relevance of the poster's age. I am relativity young. Would it have been OK for me to have said the same thing?

[Egalitarian Thug]

46. Can't. We're all subject to the jury lotto. n/t

[pansypoo53219]

40. well, i am not a male, i am not elderly either, but i was in a kohl's recently by the juniors

and i could not believe the trashy clothes making young teens into sex objects. they get enough of that from teevee + movies. at least add a planned parenthood office in the store to while you are at it.

[dionysus]

48. while it doesn't rank all that high on my give-a-fuck-o-meter, it is a fact

that you've got little girls nowadays wearing shit that would have gotten 18 year olds sent home from school as recently as the mid 90s.

the sexualization of little girls by the clothing industry is a real trend. your outrage may vary. but I don't find it creepy that someone pointed it out.

[cliffordu]

76. ^^^^THIS^^^^

[Ilsa]

110. Rec this post. ^^^ nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

51. Does it "take a village to raise a child" or is that only a village of moms?

Maybe, like watching the boys hanging out with the drug dealers on the corner, it really is none of anyone's business except the parents... until it's time to call the cops.

There are good reasons for parents to regulate what their kids wear, and I think most of us can think of examples of parents doing it badly.

To slander those who bring up the issue with implied accusations of pedophilia is, at risk of understatement, really not justified.

[enlightenment]

70. Only a village of young moms.

Like older dads, older moms are not supposed to comment on toddler's wearing "I'm so Sexy" belly shirts; Daisy Dukes; and sequined, inch and a half heel sandals exposing their brightly painted toenails.

Because it just the fashion and "none of our business".

[Schema Thing]

120. Especially older lesbians. Because that would be "creepy".

[liberal_at_heart]

80. It is up to the parents, so you can tell your kids how to dress. You cannot tell my kids how to

dress.

[lumberjack_jeff]

143. Indeed I can't. But I can tell you as a parent when you're fucking up. n/t

[liberal_at_heart]

225. and I can not give a shit, so we're both happy.

[RILib]

146. you can say Trashy, though, although I would not recommend saying it out loud.

[H2O Man]

52. I'm an Old Man.

I have two teenaged daughters. I've never once told them how to dress. Since they were wee-little, I've had them pick out the clothes they want for school, etc.

However, both of my daughters make suggestions on what outfits I wear. In part, it's due to my being "color blind"; in part, because I have zero "fashion sense." They think some outfits I select are a giggle. And I appreciate their advice.

[liberal_at_heart]

57. You sound like you have a great relationship with your daughters.

[LanternWaste]

59. However, advice about giving advice is always welcomed, and is indeed, your "fucking business"

However, advice about giving advice is always welcomed, and is indeed, your "fucking business". Unless of course, we simply hold others to higher standards than we hold ourselves and pretend that six of one is not a half dozen of the other.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

145. +1 and the really ironic thing in all this -trumad is not so young his own self

Last edited Fri Jun 21, 2013, 06:57 PM - Edit history (1)

thick with irony.

[Wounded Bear]

60. Young people, please don't try to manipulate and control old people..

to satisfy/justify your prurient desires to dress provocatively.

[FarCenter]

61. Old men get to say whatever they want.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

65. OMG YOU STOLE MY DAMNED POST

lol i was totally going to write this but then said "why bother"

[Phentex]

83. ...

[uppityperson]

68. K&R

[Pelican]

69. Really?

Are we at the point now where we are a pedophile if we point out that it isn't a good thing for a child to dress like a prostitute?

Some judgments are ok...

[liberal_at_heart]

73. you can judge all you want. Fortunately we live in America. Our girls and women can wear what

they want.

[Pelican]

88. There is a difference between can and should...

Some people seem to forget that part...

[liberal_at_heart]

99. I don't care what you think people should do.

Just like I don't care what republicans think people should do. I have an 18 yr old daughter. She wears whatever the hell she damn well pleases because she is an American and has the freedom to wear whatever the hell she damn well pleases. Neither she nor I would care what you think she should wear.

[Pelican]

105. Good for you...

Two options here...

1) The parents let the child pick out whatever she wants and the child chose to dress like a prostitute. Bad parenting for not setting boundaries.

2) The parents chose it for the child. Double bonus bad parenting points there.

Your daughter is 18 and can dress as she likes. The way she appears to others will affect how she is treated and there is nothing wrong with that. Deal with it...

A 12 year old should have boundaries and be told that having your ass hanging out is not appropriate. It will affect how you are treated and you are limiting your options by dressing like a hooker.

[galileoreloaded]

273. That's an illusion of control. Nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

154. Even in America, childrens clothing is a reflection on the parenting he or she gets. n/t

[uppityperson]

86. Did you know that many prostitutes dress quite conseratively and look just like other people going

About their daily business? Or do you mean dress like a stereotyped prostitute? Just like mass murderers, proatitutes can look just like anyone or can look bizarre

[Pelican]

91. I'm not sure how to put this other than...

Duh....

Is there anyone out there who is currently unaware than a prostitute is not prevented from throwing on some nice business casual attire?

Anyone?

Yes, the I was referring to the stereotype. Sheesh...

[FarCenter]

93. It all depends on their marketing approach.

High class call girls, women working out of a first rate brothel, ladies in the windows on the Reeperbahn, streetwalkers on 8th avenue, and whores at truck stops all dress differently.

But yes, its not clear whether they are dressing like prostitutes or like freely available party girls.

[Savannahmann]

72. Glad to see it.

Now, we can avoid those objectification of women posts on DU, glad to see it. We can avoid the posts about how awful the corporations are for catering sexual innuendo to damn near pre teens. Outstanding.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2373182

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022564247

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11391223

Outstanding, at least now we've ended the whole corporate sexualization and objectification of our children. Now, we all know, thanks to your post, that anyone who notices the dressing of the teen is merely creepy. Bookmarking this post, and using it as a cudgel for anyone who next objects to the corporate objectification of and sexualization of our children.

[Demoiselle]

74. Trumad, Your headline made me think you were going to post a pic of an old man in a Speedo....

Actually, I'm not all that fond of young men in Speedos either..

Ah well, as Robbie Burns said:
"Would the power the Giftie gie us, to see ourselves as others see us...."

[madinmaryland]

87. This??

[RILib]

150. my eyes, my eyes.

[Demoiselle]

159. Yes. And now I shall go and flush my eyes out with a hose for an hour or so. EEEwwwwwwwww!

[Auggie]

173. Stop posting this photo!!!

[madinmaryland]

183. I'm sorry I posted a picture of you..

or is it the picture of El Supremo or trumad??

[Auggie]

187. That thing isn't human

[radicalliberal]

184. You have GOT to be kidding!

IT'S GROSS! IT'S GROSS! IT'S GROSS! IT'S GROSS!

Mommy, make the bad man put some clothes on!

Thank you, mad. Now that image is going to haunt me in my nightmares.

And now for years of therapy . . .





I see he's patriotic.

[Half-Century Man]

220. Must forget image of...

..old RW power mongering douche-bag in Captain America's speedo....maye if I staple my scrotum to the coffee table...

[whistler162]

267. I expected this shot in the flag at half mast

thread!

[Autumn]

81. ROTFLMAO

only you trumad, only you.

[LadyHawkAZ]

84. ...

[Rex]

89. That is kinda creepy, now that I think about it.

Or puritanical.

[awoke_in_2003]

95. I saw that...

as a middle aged male I agree with you.

[sarisataka]

97. I won't do that

nor do I give unsolicited fashion advice to anyone

my wife won't listen to anything I say about dressing anyone because there are apparently rules about what colors and patterns go with others that I am unaware of

when it comes to my daughter it definitely is my fucking business and until she is eighteen she will not dress in a fashion where she can be mistaken for a prostitute or appears to be seven years older than her actual age- that is a duty I have as a father, do develop her self esteem and self respect so that she is aware that her sexuality is a part of who she is, it does not define her

if I do my part, she will not feel it necessary to put herself on display but be comfortable as an adult to express herself through fashion

[liberal_at_heart]

101. now that is a healthy attitude towards one own daughter. I completely agree that it is our job as

parents to teach them that their sexuality is a part of who they are, not their entire identity. I think it is the part about having a sexual part of their identity that most have trouble with. People would like to think that young people don't have a sexual part to their identity, but whether you acknowledge it or not, they do. The important part like you said is to teach them to appreciate all aspects of who they are.

[sarisataka]

166. As much as I try to deny it

people have asked since she was a baby us what model agency she is with. Our little girl has eyes that capture every heart that sees them, but we want a 'normal' childhood and let her choose when she is old enough.
Now entering the tweens, I find myself listening to Rodney Atkins

but since my wife prefers I do not go to jail, we teach our young lady who has intelligence far beyond any looks.
When I compare her to myself, I start to wonder if there is something to the changeling legends; she didn't get all of her gifts from me

[Sissyk]

117. BAM!

More parents should have your attitude. Especially this:

that is a duty I have as a father, do develop her self esteem and self respect so that she is aware that her sexuality is a part of who she is, it does not define her

[timdog44]

102. There is obviously

some kind nerve having been struck for you to say this.

I don't really care what young girls, or boys for that matter, wear. But a couple observations. The girls, all the way to the 12 anad 13 year olds, wear tight tops and tight pants and are so overweight that rolls of fat spill out. I guess that is the new attractive. Just like the young men wearing their pants below the cracks of their asses. That looks stupid too, and sometimes to the point of seeing shit stains on their underwear. The other observation is the messages on the clothes is very suggestive. If mothers have to live vicariously through their daughters, then so be it. I personally find it offensive. I find it offensive to see older girls and young ladies wearing the same type of clothing. Some can wear it well, most can not.

[Javaman]

107. Oh come on!

you don't like black socks and sandles?

[Ilsa]

111. Yeah, old men should just shut up.

They may not be nuclear physicists, and that's why they shouldn't have an opinion on nuclear power vs wind turbine energy, either.

And they shouldn't say anything against wars for profit since most old men aren't ambassadors or generals.

They should keep their opinions to themselves because Nobody would agree with anything they have to say, including changing social mores.

[alfredo]

112. I like being an old fart. I don't miss the mating games. Video below

&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Savannahmann]

113. I have identified a "creepy old man" for you

Dave Barry, the columnist. Now semi-retired (I think that qualifies as old)

In one column, he wrote that taking your children shopping for back to school clothing was a chore if you had a daughter. The girls wanted to wear clothing "that make it look like they had been fired from a whorehouse for looking too slutty".

Obviously, Dave is a creepy old man right?

[TrogL]

116. Hey, if they want to make a dirty old man's day, who am I to talk?

[LittleBlue]

118. You know what I find creepy?

Despite not being an old man, rather I'm a young man, I find this to be creepy:






So yeah, I feel pretty good in giving mothers advice: don't do this. It's fucking sick. Sorry, that's just bad mothering.

[DeadLetterOffice]

212. Can we add the dads in there too?

Or is it just moms who get to be held liable for letting their kids wear sexualizing clothes at a way-too-young age?

[LittleBlue]

218. Yes

Although I've never actually seen a dad who promotes his daughter's sexuality. For whatever reason, fathers go off the deep end in exactly the opposite direction.

When my younger sister tried to show cleavage, my father went apeshit. The only time my dad backed down was when it was such an uncomfortable conversation he preferred not to have it. In general fathers are paranoid about their daughters presenting themselves sexually.

[bike man]

121. I think making reference to attire that one saw in a public place on an

Last edited Sun Jun 23, 2013, 08:19 AM - Edit history (1)

anonymous forum is quite acceptable - especially if one is requesting that other anonymous readers of that forum not make, or allow dependent children to make, similar fashion errors.

If one infers from such a blanket request/suggestion that person making this request/suggestion OTHER THAN on the anonymous forum, perhaps even to the person wearing said attire, then a reader might construe that the poster who made such an inference has projected his/her own social ineptitude elsewhere.

[Puzzledtraveller]

127. If there wasn't a post expressing rage in response to another post

that was merely making a statement it wouldn't be DU.

[AzDar]

122. ...

[bigwillq]

123. Hell to the yeah

I so agree.

K and R

[grahamhgreen]

124. LOL - Here's my advice -

[MadrasT]

135. Why the fuck are they all standing on their toes?

They're standing like they're wearing high heels but without the shoes.

Weird.

[redqueen]

148. Because of the way it looks.

Imagine men in those poses

The crossed ankles, the turned-in knees...

[grahamhgreen]

149. Essentially, to attract men. They think it makes their calves look more toned, hence high heels, etc

[RILib]

153. The theory is

elongating the legs makes them sexier. It's hard to find high heels made out of material acceptable to PETA, although it can be done.

[Half-Century Man]

222. If this isn't CGI..

..it has been heavily CGIed (whee, new verb). The faces are the same size yet the facial features are not. Skin looks painted.
Good point poorly presented.

[RedCappedBandit]

241. As long as there's airbrushing, anyway.

Comfortable in their own skin? Riight.

[Buzz Clik]

130. Actually, people are free to express their opinions about everything.

However, your advice (assuming it is not an executive order) is certainly well placed -- giving women's/girls' fashion advice on DU will result in a new asshole, raggedly torn.

How the hell MineralMan stumbled into his thread as long as he's been around here is a mystery to me. I defend his right to voice his opinions, but doing so comes at a very high cost.

[Major Nikon]

132. Would it be OK to say something if a parent allowed a 12 yr old to go nude in public?

If the answer is no, I'd love to hear why.

[Buzz Clik]

136. The answer is, and always will be:

YOU ARE A ****ING PERVERT!!!!111ONE

Nothing at DU is done in small measures.

[Major Nikon]

138. ...

[broadcaster75201]

134. Old man here. Agree 100% I hate that shit. n/t

nt

[Sherman A1]

141. Thanks, but

I really don't need the lecture...........

[Buzz Clik]

156. +1. Nice avatar.

[Sherman A1]

174. Thank You Kindly!

I must admit to being a bit perplexed as to when the OP was assigned to the position of behavior police.

It appears to be a behavioral lecture about not giving behavioral lectures or did I miss something?

[Locrian]

158. I thought you were going to post something like this:

[Apophis]

160. K and f'ing R.

[tclambert]

163. Is it still OK if I tell those darn kids to GET OFF MY LAWN!?

[SaveOurDemocracy]

167. Is this you?

.........................................................

[tclambert]

243. How'd you get a picture of me? Are you with the NSA?

Hey, you darn NSA, GET OFF MY PHONE!

[politicat]

165. Very much this. History shows the elder generation never likes the younger's choices.

Roman men complained about their sons wearing long hair, eschewing togas for tunics, and their daughters' choice of silk over wool.

Medieval churchmen complained about embroidery, men wearing short tunics and hose, and women wearing both close-cut garments and their hats.

Elizabethan men complained about high neck lines, ruffs, low neck lines, hoops, trunk hose, and imported fabrics.

Georgian era men hated the Regency/Federalist era fashions -- giving up wigs was slackerish, paying attention to tailoring instead of ornamentation was a Jacobin conceit, and women who dared only wear a couple layers of light cotton (and minimal corsetry) were both immodest and risking their health and souls.

Those same Regency Bucks who revolutionized men's fashion (like your trousers? Thank the Regency) were scandalized twenty years later by plaid waistcoats and women who returned to waist definition (through corsetry) and fuller skirts. In turn, the Philip-Louis era young adults grew up to scorn the bustle, the wasp waist and mutton-chop whiskers, who grew up to complain about shorter skirts and cycling trousers.

Every fashion is a reaction to the previous generation, and every previous generation finds it scandalous. This is human nature, and a result of aging. There is generational envy -- those young'uns are wasting their youth and disrespecting their elders and why don't I look like that anymore and get off my lawn -- and a misplaced nostalgia.

[redqueen]

169. Outstanding.

[Posteritatis]

177. but but but but this time it's *different!*

... Quoth every generation in human history ...

Don't you love how the upcoming generation is always the most horrible thing to happen in the history of ever, and has been for thousands of years, and yet here we are, still surviving and bringing up by and large decent people and whatnot? It's madness!


(How long some of those specific ones hang around is impressive, too. A number of my female coworkers have gotten unsolicited lectures from passers-by in the street for daring to wear pants instead of dresses. In this day and age! What the hell?)

[Hissyspit]

178. And I love how I have friends who have advanced degrees in higher education

and don't even recognize the phenomenon in themselves.

[LadyHawkAZ]

189. Best post of the thread.

[politicat]

194. Thank you! *Blushes*

(It's nice to have a use for my interest in material anthropology.)

[liberal_at_heart]

227. +1000000

[Tumbulu]

172. Sorry this old lady is horrified

By the overt sexualization of clothing produced and sold for girls these days. I do not buy these thing for my daughter and consider it a form of child abuse to cloth a child in such a provocative way.

[politicat]

237. Have you looked at much portraiture from before about 1825?

Throughout most of human history, once a child was functionally toilet trained and had stopped spilling their soup, they were put in adult-styled clothing. That's not to say that allowances weren't made for their youth (usually in terms of ornamentation -- less -- and fabric -- cheaper -- since they grow quickly) but the styles were similar. And often, those styles were highly sexualized within the terms of the contemporary culture. That seems to be part of human nature.

Here's Walter Raleigh and his son, in 1602.
http://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/portraitLarge/mw05205/Sir-Walter-Ralegh-Walter-Ralegh
Note that both boy and man are wearing the pigeon-breasted doublet (because barrel chests were signs of virility for the late Elizabethans and early Jacobeans). Those breeches are padded for obvious reasons, and while the boy's fabric is probably indigo-dyed wool twill (because indigo is a relatively cheap dye and wool was the ubiquitous fabric of the time) rather than embroidered wool plush, he's still displaying (masculine, sexualized) power in the form of the sword.

These are the children of Charles I of England (so left to right they are Mary, Princess of Orange, Prince James (yes, he's a boy), Prince Charles of Wales, Princess Elizabeth and Princess Anne); this is from 1637 so the children are ages 6, 4, 7, 2 and 1.
http://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/portraitLarge/mw00154/Five-Children-of-King-Charles-I
Mary and Eizabeth have the low neckline of the time, though so does James. Charles' hair is long and curled, as was common for men of the time. Mary's gown is almost identical to one her mother wore, and Charles is wearing a suit almost exactly like one of his father's. Note that the older girls are wearing jewelry -- pearls.

This is the Shudi family, from 1742.
http://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/portraitLarge/mw08477/The-Shudi-Family-Group
Both children are boys, the elder of whom is in breeches, and is probably about 6. The younger, either 4 or 5, is not yet breeched and still wears skirts. The elder son is wearing a much more contemporary suit than his father (robes had somewhat fallen out of fashion.)

This is Christopher Anstey and his young daughter, from 1775.
http://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/portraitLarge/mw00158/Christopher-Anstey-with-his-daughter
Note that the girl is not yet wearing stays (though she's probably wearing jumps, which are like a cross between an undershirt and a sports bra in function), but her neckline is as low as that of any adult woman of the time. Also, long, full skirt and waist-defining sash. She's wearing a very up-to-the-minute fashion, the robe a la Reine, which was a Marie Antoinette invention (who wore soft, unstructured simple gowns in her private hours.) The child's doll is interesting, in that it's the equivalent of a Barbie -- a fully adult fashion doll, with giganto-wig, stays and feathered cap.

I am not saying that long skirts and low necklines and constrictive corsetry were the pinnacle of human civilization, nor am I dismissing or minimizing the institutionalized sexism and classism of those cultures, nor do I believe those cultures had an optimal child-rearing strategy. I just don't think our construction of childhood is entirely functional, either.

Childhood as we practice it is very much a Victorian invention, and was a status symbol of upper-middle class conspicuous consumption (because UMC Victorians could afford to not send their children to work and support them as a separate class). However, Victorian childhood had well-defined end-points and rites of passage that we don't. (At least for boys -- institutional sexism had the effect of permanently infantilizing women.)

There's a reason that Barbie endures as a toy despite consistent criticism since introduction, and Doctor Who remains popular with children despite being scary and increasingly complex -- children consistently prefer to fantasize about adult people with full agency. They don't like being infantilized. Given a degree of self-determination in their clothing choices, they will generally prefer clothing which carries the contemporary markers of agency, which is why their common response to kids' clothing is "that's for babies."

Nordo I want small children put in three piece suits or heels and cocktail dresses? I think gender-role associated clothing is far more damaging than too mature clothing. I think children -- and all people -- should wear what is comfortable for their climate, safe and non-distracting for their expected daily activity, and ideally, comfortable, easily laundered and fairly manufactured. I don't think an eight year old girl should be wearing stockings and heels, but not because children are a special class who need to be protected from their own need to express individual autonomy and agency. Heels are bad for posture and feet, and stockings are environmentally destructive. It's us -- the adults -- who are the problem, because we have associated $NItem with sexuality. (And because we are unexamined Neo-Victorians with a streak of unreconstructed Calvinism, we associate everything with sexuality.) We're the ones who fetishize, not the children.

I find the modesty movement to be far more disturbing than little girls dressing up with boas (which are soft and pleasant to touch), makeup (which is colorful and therefore attractive to a developing brain), or patent leather purses (which are reasonably sensible, since they're easy to clean.) Modesty teaches girls that their bodies are shameful and to be hidden and wrong. Since children don't develop a strong sense of mind-body separation until middle adolescence, teaching young girls to hide their bodies teaches them that their entire person should be hidden and is not valuable. It hinders their development of self-worth and makes them prey to greater abuse because they don't develop the autonomy to value their own agency.

I don't want to see children placed in the equivalent of a burquah to protect them from the adult gaze. That's not the way to fix either patriarchy, rape culture or abuse and it doesn't protect them. I see no problem with a tween wearing brief shorts and a tank top, especially when the weather is warm. If adult men have a problem with a tween's wardrobe, then it's his problem and he needs to fix that within himself. His discomfort is the result of his brain. (A short skirt on an adult woman does not give an adult man the right to rape, nor the right to slut-shame -- it's the same principle, but even more so for children, because an adult woman has the social context to know that a short skirt may provoke a response, but a child or a tween or a teen lacks the full sense of that context.)

I do believe parents should have veto rights over their child's wardrobe, for safety (no flowing scarves which can tangle in a bike chain, and sensible sun protection, for example), cultural appropriateness (no swim fins or snorkels at a formal wedding), and similar reasons, but that's a parental veto to be made, not one for the larger society to make. But there's also much to be said for natural consequences and learning experiences -- it only took one day of very cold weather for the child I am most responsible for to figure out that yes, sleeves and coats DO have a purpose and no, I wasn't just harshing on her mellow. It's not her job to police the male gazes around her -- it's mine, as her responsible adult -- and believe me, when I see inappropriate behavior from my peers directed at child, they get at least a withering glare, if not an earful about not being a creep. (This is also modeling assertive behavior.)

On the other hand, it is also my job to educate Kidlet on social context, cultural significance and all of the other factors that go into clothing. (Also, geometry -- like the fact that if she wants to minimize the relative size of a body part -- she's at that age -- wearing a garment with writing across said body part defeats the purpose and the longer the word, the more defeated the purpose.) Learning cultural context doesn't come automatically, and unpacking social cues takes experience, guidance and reflection.

[Tumbulu]

272. Beautiful post

What fun to look at the costumes.

But I stand by my belief that as parents and as elders we must protect children from predators and no matter how many times you or others may claim that the clothing on the child SHOULD make no difference it does. The many yards of fabric that make up a burka are not necessary. What we need to educate children and the fashion industry and performers who popularize these clothes that objectify is that clothing that sexualizes a child puts that child at greater risk as it is a non verbal communication. And that communication which an adult woman may chose to play with, is absolutely not appropriate to ask a child to navigate.

Any ridiculous idea that sexualizes clothing is not sending a message is that. Clothing is a construct of human hands and imagination and you better believe it sends messages both conscious and unconscious.

[OldRedneck]

181. Do I qualify as an old man?

I'm 68, retired, work at a part-time job because retirement is not what it's cracked up to be.

My part-time job puts me in contact with LOTS of young people -- mid-teens to mid-twenties, mostly female.

I find the young women fun to be around. They all call me "Grandpa" and regale me with tales about their latest adventures I treat them with respect and would not even think about commenting on their dress . . . I do comment when they let slip a four-letter word and on occasion I have suggested to some of them they need to drop an abusive boyfriend.

Frankly, I'm glad I'm not a teenager today. Back when I was their age, all we had to worry about was getting caught smoking in the bathroom or drinking Coke spiked with Jack Daniels at a high school football game . . . we didn't have AIDS, meth, date rape drugs, or people attacking us on Facebook.

[Phentex]

201. You don't sound old...

but you do sound wise.

[maddiemom]

182. What did I miss? W(here)TF is this coming from?

[uppityperson]

221. See if this works

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3055167

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

186. Also, please don't call people racist because they disagree with you

That is not only creepy, it's offensive, and doesn't belong on DU.

Thank you, all of you (tiny vocal minority)!

[MNBrewer]

191. I'm 48 and a gay man and am tired of seeing little girls dressed up like whores

I have no interest in those girls sexually, but their mammas and pappas sure seem to enjoy it.

[edbermac]

193. Who you calling old, punk??

I'll kick your ass, you little snot.

[NaturalHigh]

216. How is common sense creepy?

I read the post - it wasn't cruel or sexist or condescending. It was the kind of advice I would give my wife or daughter. Fortunately, my daughter never chose to dress like that.

[yawnmaster]

230. Oh BS. One's should be free to give an opinion on anything...

if one doesn't like it, ignore it.
One chooses what they wear and how they want to look to the public, when in public.
Therefore, I believe, one can judge a person by what they wear, at least to a certain extent.
And human's have opinions...don't like to hear opinions? too bad.

[GiveMeFreedom]

231. I like summer and spring

I am 55 and girls wear less each year. I look , but don't say a word unless it's "you look very nice" or "You are very pretty young person" but nothing uncouth or disrespectful. If they say nothing in return, I do not linger or make a nuisance of myself. Besides my wife does not like it when I flirt. They do not poke a man's eyes out when he gets married, but he better learn to keep his mouth shut if wishes to enjoy certain views of life. Just sayin' Peace.

[sulphurdunn]

233. What makes one a creepy old man

who plays with himself rather than a distinguished senior gentleman with a trophy wife or mistress 40 years his junior is money. Fortunately, for a modest sum even creepy old men who aren't rich can still get laid in a trailer in Vegas by someone 40 years their junior. Thank god.

[alp227]

234. But what if old men give fashion advice to YOUNGER men & telling teenage boys how to dress?

Like these:

[ErikJ]

235. I like it. But not too young. That's kinda creepy.

Last edited Sat Jun 22, 2013, 02:56 AM - Edit history (1)

New fabrics have allowed women to dress more and more provocatively. I like the black tights and skin tight tops (especially on my girlfriend). But I dont think its really appropriate for girls too young. Sexualization too young can retard their academics and lead to trouble.

[Summer Hathaway]

240. Old men

do as you please.

Old women: do the same.

Young women: ditto.

Young men: all of the above.

Defend your position if challenged.

Discuss it, and be open to discussion.

Change it, if you feel it is warranted.

Hold your position, if it is what suits you.

But above all, don't take advice about how to live in the real world from people who live on the internet.

[SHRED]

246. Old Women---Please don't do this

Please don't lambast and speak ill of your husband to others behind his back.
Please don't belittle him in public. "He can't hear...he can't ...etc...etc..".

It makes many of us extremely uncomfortable and it's none of our damn business.

---

Oh and yes I agree with the top post.

[SammyWinstonJack]

247. That WAS kind of creepy, now that you mention it.

[One_Life_To_Give]

248. So Clinton Kelly should STFU?

Was it wrong for that Judge last week to imply that some of the Lawyers in his court were dressed slovenly?

Is this thread about one person posting on an anonymous board that they found how some parent let their child dress out and about in public?

[AsahinaKimi]

249. LOL!

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!! yeah, agree!!

[madinmaryland]

261. I agree. Old Men doing this is disgusting and creepy...

[rucky]

270. I cross-posted this on www.puritanunderground.com