Ed Schultz: Snowden not a patriot, I don't trust him, I'll go with Obama and his assessment

[flamingdem]

more from Ed:

If he's a patriot he'd come home and face the music. If what he said is true he'd be getting more support and corroboration from others.

Today is a White Bronco chase

Okay DU go ahead and throw Big Ed under da bus

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. I just turned the tv off

He's afraid of the terrorist under the bed. On matters of international relations and national security he is quite uninformed.

So his appeal to emotion led to me turning the tv off

Will see what we have for music here...

[OilemFirchen]

33. Oh Glory Be!

She's now got her television on Ignore!

What's next? Clothing stores with sizes other than hers? Restaurants that serve food she doesn't like? Streets that go places she's not interested in?

[JDPriestly]

110. Ed Schulz is a great guy, and I enjoy his shows, but he is of a generation

that has a hard time believing that the American government could do something really, really stupid and wrong. So, I forgive him. He will learn. Some guest will set him straight. It isn't hard on this one.

[kardonb]

144. gen.disc.

BIG ED nails it again !!!! Here is a guy that does not fall for all this hysterical brouhaha . Right on , BIG ED , BRAVO !!!

[OilemFirchen]

157. Ed and I are the same age.

I'm well aware that the American government has, is, and will do stupid, bad and evil things. This simply isn't one of them, and Snowden is not a poster child for civil liberties. Ed and I came of age during the original Nixon ratfucking and can smell that shit a mile away.

Presumbably, you're younger than that. I forgive you. Some experience will set you straight.

[JDPriestly]

158. Actually, I'm older, but I love the Constitution and have bothered to

study it and some of the case law related to it. That's the difference.

[OilemFirchen]

160. I don't follow.

Are you insinuating that I (and/or Ed Schultz) does not "love the Constitution" and that we haven't studied it or case law?

If so, take me on. Prove your superiority.

[flamingdem]

176. Me too, and we built up instincts about BS from those

Nixonian years. Though in fact I think Ed is a bit younger but he's a quick study and knows his stuff.

Subconsciously we have seen these machinations before..

[OilemFirchen]

179. I haven't figured out how one could have lived through the sixties...

and still have hair to burn. Speaking as a male, of course.

Ed is 59, I believe.

[flamingdem]

187. You're right, he is 59

Edward "Ed" Andrew Schultz (born January 27, 1954) is an American television and radio host, a liberal political commentator, a former conservative political

He looks good for 59. I think the weekend show suits him and he is healthier. Good, we need him around media land!!!!

[Floyd_Gondolli]

155. ...

Well played.

[rhett o rick]

54. Sorry Big Ed but I stand with Ms. Plame and Mr. Wilson.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023073075

[nadinbrzezinski]

59. Exactly. People with the bona fides

Have warned us.

[riverbendviewgal]

111. yes

I agree

[tblue]

126. Me too. Ed is doing Newspeak.

Did he support the PATRIOT Act back under Bush?

[Enthusiast]

206. Me too..............nt

[dionysus]

117. you calling someone uninformed is like.. well...

go play in the riffle

[rhett o rick]

136. You just cant help yourself can you. Gotta make it personal. nm

[dionysus]

138. considering the source, yes.

[rhett o rick]

140. Exactly. She deserves it. That's always the justification. nm

[Romulus Quirinus]

161. She may be aggravating, sometimes.

But you're an asshole.

[dionysus]

163. you've cut me to the quick i tell you...

[Floyd_Gondolli]

152. You seem to "turn off" a lot of people you disagree with

If you were a boxer you would have no chin, a glass jaw etc.

[Cali_Democrat]

2. Dammit!! Ed Shultz is now DEAD to me!!11!(one)!1!!

Under the bus you go, Ed



Snowden is a hero!!11!!

[flamingdem]

35. Ed simply doesn't understand Snowden's heroic act!

Putin does though

[Cha]

102. Really?

I kinda like him. He's got his reality glasses on.

[monmouth3]

3. What if the named countries refuse to take Snowden? That would be a shame, right?..LOL..

I'd like to see the little shit left with no where to go.

[wandy]

30. Now that would be something. A man without a country except instead of a ship......

condemned to transfer planes for all eternity.
Airport food. Airplane restrooms. The overweight guy in the isl seat. The crying baby in the seat behind.
Forever.

In a situation having almost no funny elements, no matter how you look at it, that would make a great sitcom.

[monmouth3]

36. I'll write the draft right now..n/t

[LeftInTX]

86. LOL!!!!!!!!!

Remember the Airport/Airplane movies?
We can now have the Snowed-In series!

[jmowreader]

167. He'd be more like Nasseri

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehran_Karimi_Nasseri

Nasseri lived in a terminal at Charles de Gaulle Airport for seventeen years because he couldn't enter France or travel to any other country. The movie The Terminal (starring Tom Hanks) was based on his story.

[flamingdem]

177. Every time he switches countries he'd have to come up with a state secret to trade

that would be interesting. Perhaps there's a happy ending there when the whole world unites against him!

[90-percent]

188. additionally

don't forget the talking pig on the opposite of the plane managing his insurance policies with his i-phone.

-90% Jimmy

[flamingdem]

191. I could live with the pig

As long as he refrains from playing angry birds all day.

[flamingdem]

38. I don't think it's a slam dunk for him to get passage via Cuba or Caracas

In spite of the bluster those countries don't need more trouble with the USA.

They might do it, but only if there's incentive for them.

Now who can supply the incentive? Well it might be in the 4 laptops belonging to Snowden, or in the pockets of an Icelandic businessman. We shall see.

How about this for irony. Snowden's deal with Russia, Cuba will be blocked from transparency because he's "special".

[monmouth3]

53. Haha, now that is irony. I think he'll be stranded, a man with no country..Good, good, good..n/t

[flamingdem]

57. Cuba did allow Philip Agee to live there in Havana

But I think they've changed their ways. Raul Castro is positively mainstream compared to his older brother. He's into business and spy/lefty heroes are bad for tourism! He wants to make nice with the USA.

[monmouth3]

63. Ya know, it would be like me going up against Ahnald. I may not approve or like him. But by Gawd

if I went up against up I just have to know it's not going to end well. It may not be today, tomorrow or in a year, but, well you know.

[East Coast Pirate]

62. Sorry to disappoint.

HONG KONG/MOSCOW (Reuters) - Fugitive former U.S. spy agency contractor Edward Snowden is seeking asylum in Ecuador, the Quito government said on Sunday, after Hong Kong let him leave for Russia despite Washington's efforts to extradite him on espionage charges.

In a major embarrassment for the Obama administration, an aircraft thought to have been carrying Snowden landed in Moscow, and the anti-secrecy group WikiLeaks said he was "bound for the Republic of Ecuador via a safe route for the purposes of asylum."

Ecuadorean Foreign Minister Ricardo Patino, visiting Vietnam, tweeted: "The Government of Ecuador has received an asylum request from Edward J. #Snowden."

Ecuador has been sheltering WikiLeaks' founder Julian Assange at its London embassy for the past year, and Ecuador's ambassador to Russia said he expected to meet Snowden in Moscow on Sunday.

More: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/23/us-usa-security-flight-idUSBRE95M02H20130623

[monmouth3]

72. Lemme know when he's finally accepted and settled..n/t

[pnwmom]

114. And there's a question of how he'll go anywhere without a valid passport.

Although H.K. let him leave without one, so who knows.

[N.I.B.]

4. Can't say I'm surprised

Corporate government/corporate media. Orders are orders.

[Cali_Democrat]

8. You think somebody in the government ordered Ed Shultz to say this?

[N.I.B.]

32. Nope

I said we have a corporate government and a corporate media. If you know anything about how the media works you will be aware of the fact that they have several layers of filters. If what you are reporting doesn't pass through all the filters it won't make it on air.

You familiar with a group of journalists who did an investigative report on Monsanto but their work got canceled and never made it on air? That's why. Because it didn't make it though all the filters. You familiar with Cenk Uygur of The Young Turks? He ignored the main stream press orders/filters and he's no longer on MSNBC. Keith Olbermann same thing. The message (orders) is clear. Don't go off the reservation or it won't be long before you are out of a job.

[TheAmbivalante]

192. Precisely

Ed works with a team to define his stories. Hell, he has a week to get each show done. That's also a week where Producers and, ahem, other management have time to review and filter and frame and refine into MSNBC's version of sound and fury which, since the last election, has become more timid.

Ed's response isn't a surprise. Over time, more news outlets will realize that they have the opportunity to create a villain. That's a story arc that plays oh so well. What's more, they'll make him into a villain on the run complete with a global chase and international agencies working cooperatively (or should I say 'corpor-operatively') to bring this "leaker" to justice. Imagine the ratings!

Nowhere on mainstream TV have I found anyone willing to talk about the shadow of the NSA, logging these very keystrokes if they wish, and whether they should be tracking Wall Street instead of Bobby Ray and Betty Sue trading recipes. Glen Greenwald took MTP's Dillhole in Chief, David Gregory, to task on that subject this morning. How long will it be before Glen is branded an extremist with an agenda? NBC and MSNBC will play the clip over and over tomorrow and by Tuesday morning, ol' Glen will be deemed in league with Lucifer or somesuch.

Ed is hoping Snowden will return on a white horse and fight an honorable fight. Snowden knows that a white horse only makes him easier to spot in a sniper's scope. And everyone here would be fooling themselves to think otherwise.

I'm with Snowden. All the way. Screw the NSA, CIA, FBI, and the military intelligence complex. Screw the Bush regime for building it and screw the guy for whom I voted for letting it continue to exist.

Like everyone here, I have nothing to hide. But one thing is for damn sure: I got nothing to show. I will not be put in a situation where I have to explain or justify or defend anything in my life.

We need more Bradley Mannings. We need more Julian Assanges. We need more Edward Snowdens.

And because Ed has boxed himself into the Obama corner, it's a shame he can't come out.

[flamingdem]

194. The Mannings, Assanges and Snowdens operate on the margins

and they are marginal.

You don't know what you've got, and they don't know what they're doing half the time.

There are very positive elements there but it's marred by the egos involved and the
connected agendas which are often destroy-the-government in nature. This sounds
a bit too much like the Libertarian or right wing ethos - combine that with the attacks
on Obama and their efforts are undermined with the practical set. I've been idealistic
and practical and have landed on practical because idealistic is full of holes and those
involved are usually one trick ponies.

[flamingdem]

9. Oh BS

But anyway welcome to DU

[N.I.B.]

42. Thanks for the welcome flamingdem

I am still trying to get use to how this forum works. A little different from what I am use to.

[graham4anything]

68. What are you used to?

[HangOnKids]

77. Maybe word salad free zones?

[HangOnKids]

82. Or it could be a board where people don't post 46 times a day every day

That is kind of odd, don't you agree?

[graham4anything]

88. ad hominems to me are odd.

but I understand why a thread like this would want to have a divergence, because well, now poor Ed is being tossed under the bus

I thought Ed was a favorite of all the ones who don't like the President, because they always say he speaks his own voice.

Personally, I don't believe in the cult of personalities of reporters or talking heads, and only listen to one myself, and that is purely for my own enjoyment, but I myself decide on my own, and base it on those with far more knowledge of things than me.

Which is why I hire them by my vote. And I haven't been disappointed once with anyone I have voted for. EVER.

[HangOnKids]

90. Ah do you and LBJ haz a sad?

Keep posting graham, it is like HBO!

[N.I.B.]

142. I have accounts on two other forums

Both of them have a majority of Libertarians who are conservative leaning. Its a lot different here. But in a good way. Plus the tags to post images or videos are different - there are none. Just a little thing that I didn't realize for a few moments.

[RC]

150. You'll be right at home here then.

DU has its own contingent of Right of Center, DLC, Blue Dog, 3rd Way critters that keep trying to maintain they are real Democrats.

[BlueCaliDem]

162. And of late, too many Libertarian-disguised-as-Liberal-Paulites and RW

trolls pretending to be Democrats have infested this site, polluting the threads and juries with their deep-seated hatred of all things Obama and "big gubment".

Any person on a Democratic Party supporting site who shows the fear of Gubmint, isn't a Democrat. That should be the barometer for every and any true Democrat since Democrats DO believe in government and want it to work for We the People. But those RW-trolls, TeaBaggers, and Faux Liberals - Libertarians - all have ONE thing in common. Well, two, then. One, they hate Gubmint, and two, they hate President Obama even more.

[flamingdem]

180. As I have said before: Paulbots get your own forum!

The last thing we need is an infestation of Libertarians, it's hell to extinguish that once it gets going. Liberals can be swayed by them sadly, as we saw with Occupy.

[pkdu]

182. ^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^

[flamingdem]

196. Check out Mannygoldsteins post on Libertarians on DU

A big joke to many -- but they're here like the pod people!

[Scurrilous]

189. ...

[hrmjustin]

27. Ed speaks his own mind.

[NYC_SKP]

5. Oh, wait, Ed is already under the bus.

...when he doesn't agree whatever a person thinks.

This time, he's not outraged like I am, therefore he is (fill in the blank).

[KoKo]

168. Well..true...he was "Under the Bus" for a long while on DU...then he Emerged

and was a HERO...just about before his Weekly Night Show got moved to Weekend. Then he was Beloved By All...then he has to make change for whatever reason (yes, his wife is very ill) and he had delays getting New Weekend Show into production (for whatever life change reason) and NOW when he's just getting into his New Time Slot with all the pressures to get ratings up and get his audience back...He's NOW..."Under the Bus Again!"

Ya' JUST CANNOT "WIN FOR TRYING" these days....!

I forgot to mention that when Air America Flamed out...Ed still had his Radio Show...but when he got opportunity to go to MSNBC he came on with "Quasi "Under and Above the Bus Sentiment here on DU. For much of that time people here disliked him "Under the Bus" but he "made good" for Campaign up to Obama's election for Second Term...then he was loved this year before it was announced his show would move to Weekends...and the folks who (many) had him under the bus or standing outside the bus ..with one foot under...made him a HERO THEY HAD LOVED FOREVER..!

It gets hard to keep track of all of it. Basically he's a Union Supporter and got his position to be a voice for them...so he got off Prime Time MSNBC when Obama got re-elected because Unions were Out...and Wall Street was "IN" for re-electing Obama...so ED goes to early Saturday/Sunday Weekend nights.

WHATEVER!

[ProSense]

6. Does this mean he

disagrees with Storm Front?

[flamingdem]

16. Had to google on that one, are they mad at him for the Snowden comment

found this:

MSNBC's Ed Schultz Talks Gun 'Confiscation' - Stormfront

Re: MSNBC’s Ed Schultz Talks Gun ‘Confiscation’
Damn gun grabber scum, pretty soon you'll need seven diffrent licneses just to own a b.b. gun if they don't ban them outright given the way the gun grabbers are barking up a storm.

etc uff

[Hissyspit]

119. I think it means he agrees with Lindsay Graham.

[hrmjustin]

7. I agree with him that Snowden does not appear to be trustworthy, but the government should be

made to answer for it's action.

[Tx4obama]

10. Bravo Schultz.

Schultz is more of an American hero than that criminal scumbag over in Russia.

[Cooley Hurd]

14. "criminal scumbag"

Was Ellsberg a "criminal scumbag'? Or Sibel Edmonds?

[hrmjustin]

28. Ellsberg did not flee the country.

[Cooley Hurd]

39. We saw what happened to Bradley Manning...

...such things did not happen (overtly) to Ellsberg because WE DIDN'T DO SHIT LIKE THAT BACK THEN... or EVER before now (w/ the exception of those who were "unfortunately" Japanese in 1942).

[jberryhill]

99. Manning is not in the civilian criminal justice system

[Cooley Hurd]

120. ...nor would Snowden be.

[jberryhill]

129. What is your basis for that?

Obviously he's been indicted in a federal district court.

[stevenleser]

130. Yes, he would. He is not military and not subject to the UCMJ. nt

[Recursion]

71. Like Edmonds, Snowden is better at hype...

... than at actually delivering. So far, at least.

[Raine]

26. Totally agree! nt

[Cooley Hurd]

11. Nope. Big Eddie is just wrong about THIS.

He's usually right, but fucking WRONG-O about this subject.

The WH invites have gotten the best of him.

[flamingdem]

19. No Ed Schultz whining Cooley

[Cooley Hurd]

23. No whining... just profound disappointment.

He is throwing himself under the bus.

[flamingdem]

25. Ed is right, and you'll be okay

Look you have to at least give some creedence to the idea that this guy is giving secrets to Putin and Xi.

That is not a plus, while we might understand the guy is smart enough not to come back to the USA that's a devil's bargain

[Cooley Hurd]

49. Ed is NOT right, but, of course, this is a matter of opinion.

There is, more than any other point in my experience here, a divergence of opinion.

[hrmjustin]

29. Maybe he has an honest opinion.

[Cooley Hurd]

43. Of which he is afforded...

... that doesn't make his opinion CORRECT.

[hrmjustin]

46. I agree with you the goverment has gone too far and an honest discussion on it is needed.

As for Snowden I just don't trust him. He made his choice and now he has to live with it.

[Cooley Hurd]

52. ...and I don't trust the government on this.

THEY have much more to lose than Edward Snowden.

[hrmjustin]

56. Yes they have a lot to lose on this.

I also think while the Snowden angle is important, the press and the American people need to also focus on what the government is doing.

[babylonsister]

89. Nor yours.

I'm waiting to see how this plays out now. I want to know what he might be disclosing to other countries, too.

Til then, lips zipped!

[sad-cafe]

12. I agree. Orly Taitz wants Snowden declared a national hero and have a day dedicated to him

for sure makes me know I don't want anything about him glorified.

[Kolesar]

69. Dr. Orly Taitz, Esquire!

...Seems to be jazzed about this. She is posting extensively about her hero, Glen Greenwald, esquire
http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/?p=425915

[flamingdem]

78. ha ha perfect

Orly will take him up as her cause, would like to see that!

[JoeyT]

97. And Dick Cheney agrees that he's a traitor.

So yeah, a silly person that everyone laughs at for filing silly lawsuits, or a war criminal and torturer responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of people. The "guilt by association" game probably isn't one the defenders of the NSA want to be playing.

[Number23]

133. lol I wish I was shocked by that, but strangely enough...

[ZombieHorde]

13. For some people, the situation is much more than just Snowden versus President Obama.

For some people, the situation is mostly about perceived security versus perceived intrusion, give or take.

[liberal_at_heart]

15. I'm not going to throw him under the bus, but I also don't have to agree with him. I can think for

myself.

[russspeakeasy]

40. Stop that right now !!

[MjolnirTime]

17. Snowden has sold us all out. Yet his fans keep lapping at the trough.

[flamingdem]

21. And Putin is slurping at this point

Can you imagine that KGB guy with 4 laptops full o' info!!

[HangOnKids]

37. yeah I'm sure he is heading for your house right now

To borrow some Cheetos.

[MADem]

146. I'll bet he's tapping his Superbowl Ring on the table with great glee right about now!

Bring your sweet laptops, bring 'em on home to me!

[flamingdem]

174. LOL! I can so see Putin drooling over those laptops

Now how does he do away with the well meaning Wikileaks lawyer?

I know Michael Ratner just flew over there, okay yes I respect him very much.
He works for the Center for Constitutional Rights.

But Michael needs to think about who this guy is -- his real role might be preventing
Putin and Co. from copying those laptops. That's what we need for US security in fact

[npk]

18. My ? is why is Ed so certain that Snowden is lying, but Obama is telling the truth

Seems like Ed has more contempt for the "ordinary people" than he seems to let on. I believe it becomes dangerous when our press doesn't have a healthy level of skepticism about our elected leaders.

[Cooley Hurd]

24. WH invites can taint one's POV...

[treestar]

96. Ed has had plenty of criticism for President Obama in the past

He's one of the left wing critics who gets lionized for his rightness whenever he does it.

[Cleita]

20. Ed has said stuff I don't agree with before.

I still appreciate his work for labor, health care, gays and the working class. He's just rather uninformed about how our country operates in international affairs and probably should STFU. If I lived in the country that fought WWII, I would agree with him, but we live in the country of Gitmo, Abu Ghraib and Bradley Manning. Therefore I cannot accuse Edward Snowden of not being a patriot for not wanting to come home and face the music.

[KoKo]

47. He might be doing "Devils Advocate" ...he's got a new show and he

needs and audience and along with a wife with health problems and all the changes he's kind of caught now.

I used to find him (on his radio show) a person who liked to collect info...and be persuaded by what comes out gradually. On Unions he's great and more comfortable...

I'd give him some slack and glad to see that you are trying to be balanced about him, rather than trash him for this one show like some others are. That "Bus" gets bigger and "Ed Schultz" was under it before with some of our DU'ers and then he was what everyone wanted to watch...and now he's being trashed to go "under the bus" again.

I'd give him time and see where he goes with this as you seem to be.

[Progressive dog]

22. "If he's a patriot he'd come home and face the music"

Thank you Ed.
My bus has been reserved for the CT wing of the Paulite party.
Edited to add: My bad, I did some googling and as near as I can tell the Paulite party only has a CT wing. Just so you don't have to ask, they call themselves Libertarians.

[think]

34. Is that what we're calling torture this week?

I guess that has a better ring to it than "Illegal Pretrial Punishment"....

Alleged Leaker Manning Subjected To Illegal Pretrial Punishment, Judge Rules
by Steve Mullis
January 08, 2013 5:05 PM

At a pretrial hearing Tuesday at Fort Meade in Maryland, a military judge ruled that the Army private accused of leaking a mass of classified documents to the website WikiLeaks was subjected to illegal pretrial punishment while being held in a military prison.

Col. Denise Lind found that during the nine months Pfc. Bradley Manning spent in solitary confinement in a Marine Corps brig in Quantico, Va., the treatment he received was "more rigorous than necessary." She credited a total of 112 days toward any prison sentence Manning receives if convicted. (.)

~snip~

Full article:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/01/08/168898659/judge-reduces-possible-sentece-for-alleged-leaker-bradley-manning

[Progressive dog]

41. Snowden not equal Mannng, Civilian not equal Military

General not equal elected leader, Hong Kong not equal democracy
More words don't negate reality.

[think]

48. And whistleblowers are greeted with flowers when following the chain of command

Ask Binney, Drake, Weibe, and Radak. I hear they got lovely bouquets for stepping forward....

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/06/16/snowden-whistleblower-nsa-officials-roundtable/2428809/

[Progressive dog]

66. What's your point, you are starting from the premise

that Snowden is a whistle-blower, I don't agree.

[think]

76. What's your point? That he should have chosen to be harrassed, threatened, & marginalized

to fit in with the other whistleblowers that are being ignored?

Yes, I believe he's a whistle blower who saw that following the chain of command was an act of futility as proven by the results of these previous whistleblowers.

But hey, I understand. Following the chain of command is the only right response even if it doesn't work and effectively stifles the American people from knowing the truth.

Thank goodness Americans are protected from learning the truth about their govt. Thank goodness for the chain of command even if it is designed to fail....

[Progressive dog]

125. No, runnng makes him not a whistle-blower,

Pretending to be a patriotic whistle-blower doesn't work when the data you release is given to foreign governments to use against your own.
BTW I thought he was in grave danger, not being ignored.

[think]

139. As your post CLEARLY shows it is the other NSA whistleblowers that are being ignored

NOT Snowden.

It is Binney, Drake, Weibe, and Radak that followed the futile chain of command and have been completely ignored.

Yet people still manage to carry on a discussion about abuses by the NSA of US Law as if they don't even exist OR MATTER.....

[Progressive dog]

147. Their shelf life expired long ago,

but they brought them back for another five minutes of fame.

[flamingdem]

175. Truly, the thawed them out

and put them on the media burner for a quick bite!

[MNBrewer]

31. I disagree with Ed on this.

[DCBob]

44. Another good Democrat wil be thrown to the wolves by the DU leftwing police.

Will there be anyone left on the left after all this is over?

[Harmony Blue]

50. He was a former Republican

so he isn't exactly a "liberal"

[DCBob]

60. so.. that doesn't disqualify anyone from becoming a "liberal".. eg. Elizabeth Warren.

wow, the rules one needs to follow to be a legitimate liberal around here keeps getting tougher and tougher.

[Harmony Blue]

70. It means they have to go above and beyond to show

that they are beyond the centrists web of deceit that has enveloped Washington D.C.

[DCBob]

73. so Eddie hasnt passed the liberal test yet?

good grief.

[Harmony Blue]

81. I don't watch his show

and there is no test. Consistency is all I ask for.

[DCBob]

103. Your "consistency" is probably better defined as blind allegiance to ideology.

no thanks.

[Harmony Blue]

122. Yes standing on principles is better

than straddling a fence at the center.

[DCBob]

135. one can still stand on prinicples and make concessions when confronted with very difficult choices.

[think]

65. Did not know that. I respect Ed's take on the destruction of the USPS

and many social issues. But he does tend to be a right winger on issues of war and foreign affairs.

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. Exactly

Even neo con

[madrchsod]

104. i take it you haven't listened to his radio show

i've been listening for several years and he`s changed his outlook.

a really big plus for ed is that limpballs said ed would never make it out of nd. well ed has a tv show and a radio show full of loyal sponsors.

[flamingdem]

55. Ed is good hearted, people here know he's honest

there's the rub!

The only one left will be ... hmm. None come to mind! Kucinich?

[Harmony Blue]

61. I never liked his show

so you are on your own on this.

[flamingdem]

64. I love Ed, especially his support of the working class in the USA

and his support of Obama

[babsbunny]

45. creepy......

I am scared.........

[mpgalloway]

58. Ed is a fence sitting egotist!

I remember his radio days on Air America. He would do anything to get on TV.

I turned him off when he said "torture" might be necessary for our national security
if we liked it or not!

He finally got his TV show and he doesn't mind a little "boot licking" to the boss
to keep it!

To bad he is also one of the strongest pro union voices left in our media......

[Harmony Blue]

67. He has always been a centrist

it doesn't shock me.

[Jamaal510]

51. Expecting the comments to come about

Ed being paid off by Obama in 3...2...1.

[BOG PERSON]

75. scratch a liberal, find a conservative n/t

[flamingdem]

80. Scratch a faux outrager,

find a Paulbot or wingnut

[tomg]

79. I like Ed immensely and only

wish he was on his old schedule. On the issue of Snowden, I strongly disagree with him. So what?Every Friday for the past 13 or so years I have met with the same five guys for a beer ( or two). They are all solid folks on the left. A couple of them think Snowden should have "faced the music." Two of the group were resisters back in the day. Both faced serious shit. At least one thinks Snowden would have been nuts to turn himself in, given where things are in the country regarding whistleblowers. Obviously, we are all still friends and agree on more than we disagree.

With all the stuff going on - from the NSA revelations to TPP to ( in our neck of the woods) fracking to the pretty insane Supreme Court to the attack on women's rights to the hollowing out of social services, we really need to try and get our shit together and not concern ourselves with bullshit about whether someone thinks Snowden is or is not a patriot. For me, this is the "politically informed" version of whether his girlfriend was a pole dancer.

One thing our Friday group all agrees on, though, is that we are all disappointed in President Obama, with the Democratic Party in general, and with pretty much the whole "where else are you going to go?"

[flamingdem]

83. My Thursday group says that Obama is a great Potus

being thwarted by cretins in congress and not helped by those who jump on the latest scandals

[senseandsensibility]

101. Is that supposed to be an insult?

[tomg]

113. Probably an inappropriate

and not funny joke ( at least from my perspective as someone from the other room).

[Cha]

107. African American Group? Alcoholics Anonymous?

What ya got, genius?

[BOG PERSON]

112. lame

[Cha]

127. Yes, your "would that be your AA group?" was really lame.

[tomg]

92. Fair enough. We are still more

allies than opposed. Where we might disagree is that this is a "scandal," in the pejorative sense of the word. As the furthest left of my bunch, I see far too many dems ( and I come from a long line of dems) as selling out. And even in spite of that we still would agree on far too many other issues.

[Thinkingabout]

84. Big Ed is right, Edward Snowden is not a hero, he is a zero, crook, spy, liar, thief and coward.

He might please the cause but does not please many others. Keep it going Big Ed, l love your show.

[ljm2002]

87. I like Big Ed a lot...

...but I must disagree with him on this issue.

[BumRushDaShow]

91. Whoosh! And under the bus Ed goes.

[madrchsod]

93. have to agree with ed...

i don't trust snowjob as far as i could throw him.

the only good thing snowjob did was exposing his companies horrible security and the selling of our personal information.

[sibelian]

94. Ed - meet bus.

[allinthegame]

95. I m

With Ed

[SoapBox]

98. Bravo Ed!

For having the balls to say it!!!

Something about The Traitor smells worse than the NSA.

[flamingdem]

186. I'm glad he didn't play to the Libertarian Left on this one

We don't need more mush mouth talk about privacy over a guy who did everything wrong in his crusade.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

100. Holy shit.

Some of you people really get upset over corporate media. Ed is an entertainer if you're looking to corporations for information you're part of the problem. Turn off your damn tvs!

[madrchsod]

105. and turn on his radio show!

[cali]

106. I don't have to throw him under the bus: I've long said he was a loud mouthed asshole.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

108. If all else fails...wave the flag.

Patriotism is the most foolish of passions, and the passion of fools. Schopenhauer

[JDPriestly]

109. Big Ed. I understand that you work for GE, but really?

I've never thought of you as naive. Haven't you ever read about the STASI or the KGB? What Snowden is saying is true. It hasn't really been denied.

I think Ed Schultz needs to talk to Greewald.

[brutus smith]

115. Go Ed

I've been around DU for a long time reading the posts. I finally registered to become a poster, but really don't post much. But when I see elitists on here disparaging Ed the way they are, it makes me sick. The man had the courage to speak his mind and you want to bury him. This Snowden guy is threatening to give away State secrets and you want to enshrine him. Really? This isn't a right or left issue. Are we becoming paranoid like the right wingnuts?

[Douglas Carpenter]

116. I wonder if he would be saying this if we had exactly the same surveillance program expansion but

under a Republican president? But I hear Snowden hates Jesus.

[Life Long Dem]

165. This was fixed from the way Bush was operating

Bush was operating illegally. And this was fixed to now operate legally. So if it was a Dem in office instead of Bush, and today there was a Repub in office instead of Obama, the Dems would be saying it is already operating legally compared to before and be in support.

Just as in this ABC/Washington Post poll where 73% of Democrats support NSA the way things are now.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/06/19/poll-public-wants-congressional-hearings-on-nsa-surveillance/

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/06/most-back-nsa-surveillance-efforts-but-also-seek-congressional-hearings/

[Douglas Carpenter]

169. legally or illegally - it is still a major expansion of surveillance

would he agree to a major expansion of surveillance of American citizens if Bush was President even if it was ostensibly legal?

[Life Long Dem]

172. Yeah, back in 2006

Updated 5/11/2006 10:38 AM ET

The National Security Agency has been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth, people with direct knowledge of the arrangement told USA TODAY.

http://yahoo.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm

[Hissyspit]

118. Schultz a big fan of the Espionage Act of 1917?

Sorry, not impressed by his arguments. Attack on personality.

[Pharaoh]

121. Really ED?

That is really disappointing,

At a press conference to discuss the accusations, an N.S.A. spokesman surprised observers by announcing the spying charges against Mr. Snowden with a totally straight face.

“These charges send a clear message,” the spokesman said. “In the United States, you can’t spy on people.”

Seemingly not kidding, the spokesman went on to discuss another charge against Mr. Snowden—the theft of government documents: “The American people have the right to assume that their private documents will remain private and won’t be collected by someone in the government for his own purposes.”

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/2013/06/us-seemingly-unaware-of-irony-in-accusing-snowden-of-spying.html

[Spitfire of ATJ]

123. Another false choice....

This isn't a "loyalty" issue.

This is a question of privacy.

Do we have it?

(Be sure to reply via Facebook.)

[Cha]

124. Ed is right.. Snowden is a Coward on the run..

dropping his little goodies of classified docs to foreign governments along the way.

Eli Lake @EliLake

MT @adamgoldmanap: People surprised Snowden passing thru Russia? What foreign intel agency wouldn't want to take peak at his computers?

And, oh Matt Drudge is rooting for Putin over his own country.. now who does that remind me of?

GOPathetic @GOPathetic

So, Matt @Drudge is now rooting for Putin over his own country. Keep it classy. https://twitter.com/drudge/status https://twitter.com/drudge/status/348812517356748800

http://theobamadiary.com/2013/06/23/rise-and-shine-535/#comments

Snowden's getting advice from his buddy Rand Paul..

WASHINGTON -- Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.), one of the few public officials sympathetic toward Edward Snowden, warned the national security leaker on Sunday not to cut deals or cozy up to any government at the risk of losing credibility.

"I do think, for Mr. Snowden, if he cozies up to the Russian government, it will be nothing but bad for his name in history," said Paul on CNN's "State of the Union." "If he goes to an independent third country like Iceland and if he refuses to talk to any sort of formal government about this, I think there's a chance that he'll be seen as an advocate of privacy. If he cozies up to either the Russian government, the Chinese government, or any of these governments that are perceived still as enemies of ours, I think that will be a real problem for him in history."

Paul has been one of a few public officials to praise Snowden for leaking material on the National Security Agency's surveillance operations. And despite warning Snowden not to work with the Russian or Chinese governments, Paul continued on Sunday to argue that history would judge the leaks kindly.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/23/rand-paul-snowden_n_3486455.html

If Rand fucking Paul says it..it must be true.

thanks for the news from Ed, flamingdem

[Apophis]

128. I don't agree with Ed on this issue.

[Number23]

131. I'm going to see if I can post the interview this morning on ABC

(Australian Broadcasting Company) with the spokesman for Wikileaks.

ABC is constantly vilified for being too left-wing but upon finding out that Wikileaks helped Snowden get out of Hong Kong the journalist tore that Wikileaks spokesman APART asking him how he could not see the hypocrisy in Wikileaks who is supposedly all about a free press helping someone who first fled to China, then Russia and is now trying to get into Ecuador -- three countries with appalling human rights records, particularly in how they treat their journalists.

Found it - http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-24/wikileaks-spokesman-kristinn-hrafnsson-speaks-with/4774888

[Daniel537]

132. I couldn't care less what some corporatist host has to say on this subject.

Same goes for the goons on Fox or CNN. They all want to maintain access with the White House, so i always expected them to toe the company line like the good little sheep they are. By the way, flamingdem, looks like you were wrong about Cuba not wanting anything to do with Snowden. They have viewed him as a hero since day one, and rightfully so.

[flamingdem]

183. I can hope for the best. I checked their websites and yes they were pro-Snowdon

yesterday, today not so much.

I think they'll do it because it's expected but reluctantly

[stevenleser]

134. Ed and I are in agreement. nt

[BlueStreak]

137. Bad for America, and really stupid politics. Bad for the Democratic Party

Look, there is no question whatsoever that if the Snowden leaks came while Bush or Rmoney were President, Shultz would be all of that. You can't have a double standard like this.

Obama is destroying our chances for the future. There once was a clear link of demarcation between the Party of Dick Cheney and Democrats, and that distinction was worth 10 million votes easily. Obama is telling all the potential voters, essentially, "There is no daylight between me and Dick Cheney. If anything, Dick Cheney didn't go far enough."

This really sucks, watching our principles go up in smoke before our eyes.

[BAPhill]

141. Ed is right!

The whole thing stinks. This man is no hero, although he fancies himself one. You might not agree with the NSA program, but this guy is slimey.

[MADem]

143. But..... but...... but......!!!

I thought only rightwingers, Teahadists, GOP operatives, apologists...oh, and Nancy Pelosi and Al Franken...felt that way!!!

Cue the cognitive dissonance in 3.....2......1!!!!

[demgrrrll]

145. Someone explain this to me. Do a lot of Libertarians spend their entire careers in Government

service? I thought Libertarians detest government. Here is a man who spent his entire career in Government service and seemingly overnight he had a crisis of conscience and needed to out the NSA. He donated to Paul, isn't that just a little too neat? Right before the 2014 elections. I don't disagree that there needs to be a open debate on this matter I just think that something about this doesn't feel quite right.

[bonniebgood]

148. When ED doesn't do his homework he usually allow his ex Republican

mind to take over. as in 'shoot the messenger'. Ed jumped on the 1% ship after his first GE paycheck. Most did not notice. Ed needs to keep those fat GE check coming. I dumped him after his "holy sanctimonious' evisceration of Anthony Weiner. Even his 'friend' Papintonio had to call him out on it. I am one who will never watch his show again. Ed is nothing more than a Dixiecrat.

[Life Long Dem]

149. And that white bronco chase didn't end very well

[flamingdem]

184. That was a risky bit of humor from Ed

A zinger!

[hopemountain]

151. yay, ed!

giving secrets or passing on classified info to other governments? treasonous. why? what could really be motivating snowden? really, folks he doesn't give a crap about a single american. and, do you really believe snowden does not know that china & russia are surveilling americans/our government, businesses, etc.? china hacked into our military and other classified intel per our government press releases a few weeks before snowden disclosed his basket of goodies - for US no less. what is he thinking? snowden is either totally naive or stupid & a coward at this point.

snowden's actions have jeopardized a sensitive net work of political alliances/agreements, etc.

[LibDemAlways]

153. Ed was recently demoted to a weekend slot. He

is probably saying what he feels he has to to hang on.

[cynatnite]

170. Demoted? As I understood it, the move to weekends was his call. n/t

[CakeGrrl]

154. Not a patriot/hero. On the lam, sharing data with foreign countries, trying to avoid jail time.

[flamingdem]

185. He's working those laptops now for sure

with Putin drooling in the background.

I wouldn't be surprised if we see a delay in his flight plans.

[bbkenn92]

156. I agree with Ed. Snowdon is not a Patriot. No Patriot gives US secrets to China, Russia, et.al.

[Peregrine Took]

164. Hey, he could have $old them for tons of money.

He did the principled thing and history will note that long after Obama's "legacy" had merged into Shrub's.

Sigh....the "Shrub/'Bama" reign will sink into the sunset of poor decision making.

[flamingdem]

178. How do we know he didn't do just that?

It's pretty clear he traded those pieces of info about US hacking in China for passage to Russia, for example..

[flamingdem]

204. According to the NYT article just posted here

the Chinese drained all 4 laptops..

[flamingdem]

208. Here's the article on the laptops

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/24/world/asia/china-said-to-have-made-call-to-let-leaker-depart.html?_r=2&

Mr. Snowden has denied giving China classified documents and said he had spoken only to journalists. But his public statements, directly and to reporters, have contained intelligence information of great interest to China.

Two Western intelligence experts, who worked for major government spy agencies, said they believed that the Chinese government had managed to drain the contents of the four laptops that Mr. Snowden said he brought to Hong Kong, and that he said were with him during his stay at a Hong Kong hotel.

If that were the case, they said, China would no longer need or want to have Mr. Snowden remain in Hong Kong.

The disclosures by Mr. Snowden set off a surge of commentary against American “double faced” and “arrogant” behavior by many users of China’s version of Twitter.

[Peregrine Took]

159. Poor Ed. He just can't figure out what is going on.

He calls himself a "lefty" when he's only a reconstructed rethug.

[TheKentuckian]

166. Ed is a great voice on labor but is caught in the distractions here.

The Obama versus Snowden game is nonsense meant to distract.

[cynatnite]

171. I don't always agree with Ed, but I do on this. n/t

[Corruption Inc]

173. So you trust MSNBC's character assassination?

1st: Nobody on MSNBC was ever "on the bus", they work for a propaganda network.

2nd: Did "Ed" say anything about Americans being spied on which is the actual issue at hand? You sure didn't, you just smeared Snowden like Ed supposedly did which is an old, old, old tactic known as character assassination.

3rd: What does "face the music" mean?

4th: What is a White Bronco chase?

Lastly: None of what your post says addresses the issue of spying on Americans which is what Americans who are being spied on are worried about.

BYE

[Purveyor]

181. Ed who? eom

[HardTimes99]

190. Didn't he favor the Iraq War and even torture in some cases? - nt

[Scurrilous]

193. K & R

[Union Scribe]

195. I find all of these "look who's on my team!" posts extremely childish

The only way someone can feel betrayed by a pundit or politician disagreeing with them have apparently made the error of following a person instead of an position.

[flamingdem]

197. DU can be a bit Jr high schoolish but that

is a draw to many as in.. it can be fun

[tpsbmam]

198. I didn't listen to Ed for a long time because he was too middle-of-the-road for me

and at times too conservative. I started listening more and found more to agree with and less disagreement with him over time, mainly because he was taking more liberal stances on lots of issues. I totally disagree with him here, but I son't stop listening to him. He has a right to his opinion and this is one issue where there's a broad spectrum of responses among liberals. So, Ed, I say you're wrong on this one and you're not getting the big picture. But you're okay, for the most part. Just sometimes sway too far right for me -- this is one instance. I'm incredibly grateful to Snowden to revealing what he has and simply don't get the apologists in this case.

[99Forever]

199. Well shit...

... if some radio/teevee guy says it's okay for the government to violate the Constitution, and spy on lawful citizens without probable cause or even reasonable suspicion, who the fuck am I to question it?

Right?

[treestar]

200. Some good points he had

1 - if it's so terrible, why haven't other people in Snowden's position come forward too?

2 - Why is he afraid to come to the US, he has a lot of people here willing to support him.

[GoneFishin]

201. "He should come home and present his case, then he should be hung like the traitorous rat-bastard

that he is."

[Narkos]

202. Good for Ed

[demosincebirth]

203. +100

[Enthusiast]

205. I'm usually with Ed. But this time, Big Ed is wrong.

All his information is coming from the "Obama can do no wrong" side. Ed is misinformed.

I would expect nothing less from MSNBC. They have proven that they will allow only so much thinking outside the box before you are jettisoned. Just a fact.

[flamingdem]

209. NYT article about the Chinese getting access to Snowden's laptops

Mr. Snowden has denied giving China classified documents and said he had spoken only to journalists. But his public statements, directly and to reporters, have contained intelligence information of great interest to China.

Two Western intelligence experts, who worked for major government spy agencies, said they believed that the Chinese government had managed to drain the contents of the four laptops that Mr. Snowden said he brought to Hong Kong, and that he said were with him during his stay at a Hong Kong hotel.

If that were the case, they said, China would no longer need or want to have Mr. Snowden remain in Hong Kong.

The disclosures by Mr. Snowden set off a surge of commentary against American “double faced” and “arrogant” behavior by many users of China’s version of Twitter.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/24/world/asia/china-said-to-have-made-call-to-let-leaker-depart.html?_r=2&

[flamingdem]

210. WikiLeaks: We Know Where Snowden Is, But We're Not Telling You - Mother Jones

Former NSA contractor Edward Snowden, who has been officially indicted by the United States under the Espionage Act, is en route to Ecuador, one of at least two countries in which he is seeking asylum, WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange said today on a call with reporters. Assange would not provide further details on Snowden's current whereabouts. The whistleblower arrived in Moscow on Sunday, fleeing Hong Kong after China urged his departure in order to avoid a messy extradition battle with the United States, according to Reuters. Snowden was scheduled to fly to Havana, Cuba early Monday morning, but he never boarded the plane.

Assange blasted the Obama administration for seeking Snowden's extradition and interfering with his quest for asylum, which WikiLeaks is assisting with. He said that focusing on Snowden distracts from the sweeping surveillance program that he exposed.

"Snowden has issued an asylum application to Ecuador and possibly other countries," Assange said from the Ecuadorian embassy in London, where he is himself avoiding extradition by Sweden and potentially the United States. "We are aware where Mr. Snowden is. He is in a safe place and his spirits are high, but due to the bellicose threats coming from the US administration, we cannot go into further details at this time." Kristinn Hrafnsson, a WikiLeaks spokeswoman, added that Snowden is also formally seeking asylum in Iceland, but wouldn't name other potential countries that he is petitioning for safe haven.

After Snowden arrived in Moscow on Sunday, Ecuador's foreign minister, Ricardo Patino Aroca, tweeted that Ecuador had received an asylum request from Snowden. Assange says that the application is being carefully considered.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/06/assange-snowden-seeking-asylum-ecuador-and-elsewhere-whereabouts-unreleased

[flamingdem]

211. Snowden sought Booz Allen job to gather evidence on NSA surveillance

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1268209/exclusive-snowden-sought-booz-allen-job-gather-evidence-nsa

Edward Snowden secured a job with a US government contractor for one reason alone – to obtain evidence on Washington’s cyberspying networks, the South China Morning Post can reveal.

For the first time, Snowden has admitted he sought a position at Booz Allen Hamilton so he could collect proof about the US National Security Agency’s secret surveillance programmes ahead of planned leaks to the media.

“My position with Booz Allen Hamilton granted me access to lists of machines all over the world the NSA hacked,” he told the Post on June 12. “That is why I accepted that position about three months ago.”

During a global online chat last week, Snowden also stated he took pay cuts “in the course of pursuing specific work”.