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flamingdem

(39,313 posts)
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 11:07 PM Jun 2013

Why China Let Snowden Go - New Yorker

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/evanosnos/2013/06/why-china-let-snowden-go.html

It’s true that this is likely to sap some goodwill from the U.S.-China relationship, though a drawn-out extradition battle would have been even messier. From Beijing’s perspective, Snowden was an asset of diminishing value: he had already given Chinese authorities a gift that will be paying dividends for years to come. In an interview, he said that the N.S.A. “does all kinds of things like hack Chinese cell phone companies to steal all of your SMS data”; he described the hacking of university computers in Beijing and of systems run by Pacnet, a telecommunications company. Xinhua, the state news agency, responded with glee. “These, along with previous allegations, are clearly troubling signs. They demonstrate that the United States, which has long been trying to play innocent as a victim of cyber attacks, has turned out to be the biggest villain in our age.”

In China, Snowden left an astonishing feat in his wake: he actually improved the credibility of government censors and information-security czars, who make up one of China’s most unloved groups. Fang Binxing, a computer scientist known as the “father of the Great Firewall” for his role in developing China’s censorship régime, is so unpopular among his countrymen that he has been pelted with eggs and shoes while giving speeches; when he opened a social-media account in 2010, people called him a “eunuch” and a “running dog” and someone Photoshopped his head onto a voodoo doll. For years, Fang justified government intervention on the Web largely by arguing, as he once did, that unseen enemies abroad “sit comfortably at home, thinking only of how, through their fingertips on a keyboard, they can bring chaos to China.” He warned that using telecom equipment from international companies like Cisco threatened China’s national security. Snowden has given Fang and his cohort new reasons to argue for stricter control of the Web.

But, over time, Snowden was becoming popular in China for reasons that the government almost certainly found intolerable. China may have invented the whistle, but today’s Communist Party has little appetite for whistleblowers—and Snowden’s popularity as a digital renegade was not going to be allowed to grow forever. His usefulness was almost exhausted. Intelligence experts cited by the Times believed that the Chinese government “had managed to drain the contents of the four laptops that Mr. Snowden said he brought to Hong Kong, and that he said were with him during his stay at a Hong Kong hotel.”

Last week, I was asked on the Sinica Podcast, by the host Kaiser Kuo, whether I thought Snowden’s revelations have affected U.S.-China relations. I said no, on the principle that both sides already knew the general parameters of each others’ espionage efforts. After watching the events of this weekend, I’m quite sure I was wrong: Snowden has indeed altered U.S.-China relations, by giving China new strength on an issue of which it was struggling to gain any leverage at all. And that—more than any single secret—may be the greatest legacy of Snowden’s visit to Hong Kong.

70 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Why China Let Snowden Go - New Yorker (Original Post) flamingdem Jun 2013 OP
So Snowden gave them the gift of even tighter government control of media? Tarheel_Dem Jun 2013 #1
This nerd on steroids is quite the freedumb flamingdem Jun 2013 #6
what a wandering fuck up.. Cha Jun 2013 #16
Is he still sitting on the tarmac, smelling up the joint? Tarheel_Dem Jun 2013 #20
I don't know but I wish the Cha Jun 2013 #21
Poor poor me! sheshe2 Jun 2013 #27
As if, President Obama didn't have Cha Jun 2013 #29
Yup! sheshe2 Jun 2013 #52
excellent flamingdem Jun 2013 #41
no shit arely staircase Jun 2013 #69
such a fucking hero isn't he, but who gives a shit about them JI7 Jun 2013 #65
I'm sorry, but I couldn't hear you over the rattle of the "oppressive" chains I'm wearing. I'm.... Tarheel_Dem Jun 2013 #66
if you can say that, you aren't arely staircase Jun 2013 #70
Actually, our government did LittleBlue Jun 2013 #2
Which is why it would have been better flamingdem Jun 2013 #3
I would rather our hypocrisy be exposed LittleBlue Jun 2013 #5
You think they did not know? nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #10
Hey Nadin. I have a question pscot Jun 2013 #13
Who got on board the plane? Every press critter nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #14
Is that still in play? pscot Jun 2013 #17
I think it is. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #22
Thanks pscot Jun 2013 #23
The cause? HangOnKids Jun 2013 #40
Boy, do you ever not understand frazzled Jun 2013 #7
I understand perfectly LittleBlue Jun 2013 #18
newsflash - all countries spy arely staircase Jun 2013 #68
I read yesterday that he has only given info in the computers to certain members of press Mojorabbit Jun 2013 #26
The author of the article is no Jane Mayer ReRe Jun 2013 #60
I totally agree. nt Mojorabbit Jun 2013 #64
Thank you, Mojorabbit. ReRe Jun 2013 #67
Files SamKnause Jun 2013 #28
Hacking is a two way pastime. And exactly the same fear... TheMadMonk Jun 2013 #56
And now it's ProSense Jun 2013 #4
yabba dabba doo says the Ex-KBG "ally" flamingdem Jun 2013 #8
This is what he did wrong Benton D Struckcheon Jun 2013 #9
That's why he makes me sick. He'll get them killed if he knows names. nt DevonRex Jun 2013 #11
I don't think some here understand the gravity of all this. Whisp Jun 2013 #12
Maybe you should explain the gravity. This reads like a crappy spy novel. HangOnKids Jun 2013 #38
there are those that want everything to crash and burn Whisp Jun 2013 #39
Pant with delight? HangOnKids Jun 2013 #42
Fuck, why did they ever give that narcissistic blowhard access.. Cha Jun 2013 #19
Interesting argument, as far as it goes. Savannahmann Jun 2013 #24
answers: agents and their families get killed, and who knows how he got all those documents? flamingdem Jun 2013 #43
However, this is all based upon point of view Savannahmann Jun 2013 #57
I don't even begin to know how to answer this. Benton D Struckcheon Jun 2013 #61
I doubt he DID get access to agent names. randome Jun 2013 #62
Imagine all the stressed out NSA people out there. Whisp Jun 2013 #25
I just put this below but wanted you to check it ou flamingdem Jun 2013 #32
This part: Whisp Jun 2013 #48
His partner probably left it in some bar flamingdem Jun 2013 #50
Very important information about Snowden having the rosters of worldwide agents flamingdem Jun 2013 #30
Then hack him. HangOnKids Jun 2013 #45
About what? The fact that others can and will utilize his precious information for their own flamingdem Jun 2013 #46
His own nerd butt? HangOnKids Jun 2013 #49
I kinda added the flamingdem Jun 2013 #51
Wrong question. Savannahmann Jun 2013 #63
So Snowden is worth more than all those US employees around the world!? flamingdem Jun 2013 #33
No thanks for sucking China's butt, Leaker .. The Censors in China do thank you.. Cha Jun 2013 #15
Ah, and then there's Glenn putting out the threats flamingdem Jun 2013 #31
Yeah, I saw the megalomaniac's threats.. while hyping the conspiracy Cha Jun 2013 #36
So now Hong Kong Eddie is a cheerleader for China and Russia HangOnKids Jun 2013 #44
the Senate is trying to double H-1b visas this week markiv Jun 2013 #34
I think that's bogus also. It's just a way to lower salaries flamingdem Jun 2013 #35
of course, it's about busting salaries - that's ALL it's about markiv Jun 2013 #37
they give foreign nationals access to us systems and technology. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #58
sucks for the people of China, but who gives a shit about them, we are the ones who are really JI7 Jun 2013 #47
Snowden is lying. Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #53
I hope you're right, it doesn't take the whole list to cause havoc flamingdem Jun 2013 #54
Let's supposed it is true. Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #55
Excellent point. randome Jun 2013 #59

Tarheel_Dem

(31,234 posts)
20. Is he still sitting on the tarmac, smelling up the joint?
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 12:01 AM
Jun 2013

Comrade Eddie is probably spilling his guts, or what's left of 'em, after the Chinese got serviced.

Cha

(297,240 posts)
21. I don't know but I wish the
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 12:04 AM
Jun 2013

they would get a different picture of the leaker of documents to China and Russia. I cannot stand to look at the fuck's face one more time.

sheshe2

(83,770 posts)
27. Poor poor me!
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 12:36 AM
Jun 2013

From The Pirates of Penzance ~

Poor Wandering One



For shame
For shame
For shame


Poor wandering one
Though thou hast surely strayed
Take heart of grace, thy steps retrace
Poor wandering one

Poor wandering one
If such poor love as mine
Can help thee find true peace of mind
Why, take it, it is thine

More lyrics: http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/l/linda_ronstadt/

Cha

(297,240 posts)
29. As if, President Obama didn't have
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 12:47 AM
Jun 2013

enough on his plate, she.. now he's got this schumck just handing China and Russia documents pertaining to them on a silver computer. 'Cause, you know.. China good, Russian good.. USA bad.

The stupid really does burn with that one. But, my money is on the President handling it with his usual intelligence and diplomacy. He really does have enemies everywhere but he's like freaking Superman.. they can't find his kryptonite.

thank you for the lyrics of Pirates of Penzance, she.. I had no idea.

sheshe2

(83,770 posts)
52. Yup!
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 02:58 AM
Jun 2013

Snowdens spy's , cause good=spread the news. America spy's=bad.

Noble cause take four laptops to China then Russia, computers drained of info=secrets about America revealed. Americans put in danger from foreign governments=Snowden Hero! Obama protects our security (legally)= bad Worse than Bush.

Greenwald and Snowden threaten our country with a mass dump of info that could potentially harm our Country. I do believe that their is more in that Intel than phone numbers. Hero's I think not!



My head spins with the spins!

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
69. no shit
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 06:04 PM
Jun 2013

wandering fuck up is right. do you think, sitting there in a transit area in the Moscow airport it has dawned on him how incredibly stupid and naïve he has been? has it hit him yet he is playing with the big boys now; Putin, the Chinese? That this is very real and he has made decisions that are going to determine the rest of his life, and not for the better?

I wonder. And he wanders.

JI7

(89,249 posts)
65. such a fucking hero isn't he, but who gives a shit about them
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 05:35 PM
Jun 2013

we are the ones who are really oppressed.

Tarheel_Dem

(31,234 posts)
66. I'm sorry, but I couldn't hear you over the rattle of the "oppressive" chains I'm wearing. I'm....
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 05:37 PM
Jun 2013

off to China. I hear they are an exceptionally open & transparent society. The US sucks!

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
70. if you can say that, you aren't
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 06:07 PM
Jun 2013

ask the pussy riot women who are in a labor camp for doing what you do freely - criticize your government. the (most recent) government to undoubtedly drain snowden's computer of its contents.

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
2. Actually, our government did
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 11:12 PM
Jun 2013
Snowden has given Fang and his cohort new reasons to argue for stricter control of the Web.


We're the ones hacking China, not Snowden. He just revealed our crimes.

flamingdem

(39,313 posts)
3. Which is why it would have been better
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 11:18 PM
Jun 2013

not to reveal anything to them!

What it will gain for the cause long run vs what is lost?

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
5. I would rather our hypocrisy be exposed
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 11:19 PM
Jun 2013

I feel like I have a right to know if we're committing international crimes, which is what hacking is.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
10. You think they did not know?
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 11:38 PM
Jun 2013

That's Tuesday. Serious.

What he gave them due to our own hypocrisy is cover...that's different.

But they spy on us, we spy on them and we all pretend it's not happening to our internal populations.

What he revealed that is not Tuesday is taking over life support systems in hospitals. We signed that damned piece of paper called the Geneva Convention.

pscot

(21,024 posts)
13. Hey Nadin. I have a question
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 11:51 PM
Jun 2013

Why wasn't Snowden on that plane to Cuba? Did Cuba get cold feet? hat are the politics of that? Or did the Russians put a hold on it?

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
14. Who got on board the plane? Every press critter
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 11:53 PM
Jun 2013

In Moscow. I suspect a skillfully done red herring.

If Iceland says yes, he's one flight from.

pscot

(21,024 posts)
17. Is that still in play?
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 11:58 PM
Jun 2013

the Norwegians were tweeting about that last night, but it didn't seem quite real.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
22. I think it is.
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 12:06 AM
Jun 2013

I will be honest...I don't think we will know until he reaches his final destination, if ever. I think Mr. Snowden has already become legally a non person...even if we still recognize his citizenship.

He's traveling under travel papers designed to hide the identity of the traveller. I remember those being issued back in the day.

And if he is bright, and I think he is...that will be the last we will hear from him. Any human rights lawyer will give him that precise advise.

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
7. Boy, do you ever not understand
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 11:19 PM
Jun 2013

The US does not exercise control over Web content, does not pull down Web sites, does not censor what its citizens can read.

What Snowden accomplished was

(a) letting the Chinese download four computers full of US files
(b) getting a disgruntled and oppressed Chinese populace a temporary distraction so that the censoring powers in China can actually tighten their control
(c) getting out of Hong Kong: they didn't want him around anymore, for themselves or for their relationship with the US.

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
18. I understand perfectly
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 11:59 PM
Jun 2013

Hacking is like breaking and entering.

If we'll criticize others for hacking, let the light shine on our hypocrisy.

And I don't subscribe to zero-sum thinking or democracy crusades. The Chinese will do what the Chinese will do, it's none of my business.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
68. newsflash - all countries spy
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 05:56 PM
Jun 2013

giving other countries details on how yours does it makes you a traitor. that's how it has always been and probably will always be. mr. "information wants to be free" is probably starting to realize how naïve he was and how in over his head he now is.

Mojorabbit

(16,020 posts)
26. I read yesterday that he has only given info in the computers to certain members of press
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 12:23 AM
Jun 2013

and none to Chinese govt and I am wondering who is saying he did give the info to the Chinese. Perhaps it is in the full article which I will go and read.

on edit
I had to follow a couple of links
"Mr. Snowden has denied giving China classified documents and said he had spoken only to journalists. But his public statements, directly and to reporters, have contained intelligence information of great interest to China.

Two Western intelligence experts, who worked for major government spy agencies, said they believed that the Chinese government had managed to drain the contents of the four laptops that Mr. Snowden said he brought to Hong Kong, and that he said were with him during his stay at a Hong Kong hotel.

If that were the case, they said, China would no longer need or want to have Mr. Snowden remain in Hong Kong.

So a couple of spooks "believe" this to be the case and it gets reported as fact. I will wait and see. Mojo

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
60. The author of the article is no Jane Mayer
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 07:20 AM
Jun 2013

And he/she quoted from some dude (Haas?) from the Council on Foreign Relations. I don't believe a word of it. It's a fine art, recognizing whether what you're reading is propaganda or not. Maybe I'm wrong, but I haven't read anything like this elsewhere. I'll go back and read it one more time.

Meanwhile, go check out this article by James Bamford in Wired Magazine:

http://www.Wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/all/

Edited to update after reading article again

OK... read it again and clicked on the Times link which the author based some of his report. In the Times article, the source was of course was someone speaking under anonymity, and unnamed "analysts."

I stand by what I said to begin. The New Yorker article is hogwash propaganda (as is the NYTimes article).

SamKnause

(13,106 posts)
28. Files
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 12:36 AM
Jun 2013

Please provide a link, or article title proving that the Chinese downloaded files from four computers.

Just saying it, or blogging it does not make it factual.

I have been following this subject closely.

I get my information from;

Democracy Now
Russian Television, or RT
Numerous newspapers from around the world
Wikileaks website
Link TV
Daniel Ellsberg


Main stream media lies.
Mainstream media aids, abets and enables our CORRUPT government.

 

TheMadMonk

(6,187 posts)
56. Hacking is a two way pastime. And exactly the same fear...
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 04:20 AM
Jun 2013

...pertains to the reversal of positions as far as who is manufacturing equipment for who.

We really need to get ourselves IN CONTROL OF our sense of identity on the levels of things like ethnicity, religion, nationality and regionalism. (etc.)

We have global problems to deal with and they demand global solutions.

We really are on the verge of 3D printers capable of creating objects with almost atomic precision.

Competition makes no sense when cooperation could result in so much more for everyone.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
4. And now it's
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 11:19 PM
Jun 2013
But, over time, Snowden was becoming popular in China for reasons that the government almost certainly found intolerable. China may have invented the whistle, but today’s Communist Party has little appetite for whistleblowers—and Snowden’s popularity as a digital renegade was not going to be allowed to grow forever. His usefulness was almost exhausted. Intelligence experts cited by the Times believed that the Chinese government “had managed to drain the contents of the four laptops that Mr. Snowden said he brought to Hong Kong, and that he said were with him during his stay at a Hong Kong hotel.”

...Russia's turn.

Russia spies may be chatting with "tasty morsel" Snowden
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023094415

Benton D Struckcheon

(2,347 posts)
9. This is what he did wrong
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 11:35 PM
Jun 2013
What Snowden May Know About Human Ops

Beyond technical systems, U.S. officials are deeply concerned that Snowden used his sensitive position to read about U.S. human assets, for example spies and informants overseas as well as safe houses and key spying centers.
They worry this recent quote from Snowden was not an exaggeration: ”I had access to the full rosters of everyone working at the NSA, the entire intelligence community, and undercover assets all over the world. The locations of every station, we have what their missions are, and so forth.”
So it’s not just about what he took, but what he knows, officials emphasize. Officials describe Snowden as a walking treasure trove, a dream for foreign intelligence services. One intelligence official called Snowden and his cache an “entire U.S. government problem.”


http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/06/officials-how-edward-snowden-could-hurt-the-u-s/

So, two things:

1 - This compromises all of US intelligence. This has nothing whatsoever to do with anything regarding the NSA. Zip. It's a simple betrayal of the US. Period, the end. Remember, this isn't speculation on what he took, it's him admitting that he took this stuff, the names, the missions, the whole freakin thing.
2 - It also compromises future intelligence. Now if the US wants to do something overseas, no one is going to want to do it for the very good reason they wouldn't want to be outed just because of some contractor with access to all this stuff.

This is way, way, way beyond being a whistleblower on the domestic side of the NSA. This is breathtakingly over the line. And he has very publicly offered to share this stuff with journalists around the world. Once again, those are words out of his own mouth.
 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
12. I don't think some here understand the gravity of all this.
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 11:49 PM
Jun 2013

It's stomach churning frightening.

and he's lauded as a fucking HERO? my gawd people are so stupid.

 

HangOnKids

(4,291 posts)
38. Maybe you should explain the gravity. This reads like a crappy spy novel.
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 01:39 AM
Jun 2013

Stomach churning frightening? Are there boogey men under your bed now Whisp? Indeed there are stupid people.

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
39. there are those that want everything to crash and burn
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 01:41 AM
Jun 2013

that pant with delight at the thought of catastrophe and the ripping down of society.

I see stupid people, yes.

Cha

(297,240 posts)
19. Fuck, why did they ever give that narcissistic blowhard access..
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 12:00 AM
Jun 2013

they should be kicking their collective butts.

thanks for the info, Benton

 

Savannahmann

(3,891 posts)
24. Interesting argument, as far as it goes.
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 12:10 AM
Jun 2013
1 - This compromises all of US intelligence. This has nothing whatsoever to do with anything regarding the NSA. Zip. It's a simple betrayal of the US. Period, the end. Remember, this isn't speculation on what he took, it's him admitting that he took this stuff, the names, the missions, the whole freakin thing.
2 - It also compromises future intelligence. Now if the US wants to do something overseas, no one is going to want to do it for the very good reason they wouldn't want to be outed just because of some contractor with access to all this stuff.


What Snowden did was take away the ability of the US Government to claim that they are pure as the driven snow. What he paid for that was the same we demanded from the KGB types that defected to us back in the Cold War days, the names of people who were giving the Russians information. So why is it a good thing that we can get names of people spying on us, and a bad thing that they can get names of people spying on them?

Your second point, is part of the argument of those of us who have been very critical of all of this. Contractors are obviously less closely regulated, and controlled. They have access to tons of data, including the very secrets that you are so very upset that they have. So my question is this, what business did Booz Allen have with names and covers of Non Official Cover agents, and sources within foreign Governments? Are you blaming Snowden that the idiots at the CIA didn't guard that information more closely? If that is such a valuable secret, and the stories from the press are accurate, the Compartment where that was kept was closely regulated. Yet, a High School Drop out managed to get his hands on essentially the entire collection of all Top Secret Data.

When the Bradley Manning story started, my first question was who in the hell gave a 19 year old kid access to the entire collection of secret documents? What the hell was going on? Because from what I had understood, this stuff was doled out on a need to know basis, and you can't tell me that a 19 year old kid needed to know all of that. So now it is even worse for the Government. Despite the debacle that was and is Wikileaks, we now find out that not only are they treating Secret documents haphazardly, but we learn that apparently anyone can access the Top Secret collection of greatest hits without any real trouble.

So who is to blame? Snowden it would seem. Because the Government did their job, they had all the secrets in a box tied with two pieces of string and a sticker that said. Top Secret, DO NOT TAKE.

If only the Government treated the secrets like they do in the movie, where it is kept in a big safe, and not let out to anyone without serious authorization. Instead, it turns out to be accessible by anyone who has a password to check their email.

flamingdem

(39,313 posts)
43. answers: agents and their families get killed, and who knows how he got all those documents?
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 01:48 AM
Jun 2013

So why is it a good thing that we can get names of people spying on us, and a bad thing that they can get names of people spying on them?

> this implies it's not okay to even have agents, since we do have them they are vulnerable to being killed etc. if we don't have them we are vulnerable in the world, right? Or should people just "be nice".

> Snowden was working with others it seems, surely he'll keep quiet about who that might be, who might have facilitated obtaining what he got, this is why he should stand trial

 

Savannahmann

(3,891 posts)
57. However, this is all based upon point of view
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 05:18 AM
Jun 2013

That was what I was alluding to in my original post. It is a matter of point of view. Our hero who is feeding us information, is the other guys traitor who is feeding us information. Our traitor, is the other guys hero. We have to learn to see the perspective here.

> Snowden was working with others it seems, surely he'll keep quiet about who that might be, who might have facilitated obtaining what he got, this is why he should stand trial

So now there are multiple people involved in this at Booz Allen, and we have proof of this how? I only ask because whenever I point out that the NSA is reading/ monitoring all the net communications, I get demands to prove that statement from the apologists.

Again, how did Booz Allen get access to the names of the agents in place in China/Russia? Don't tell me we've outsourced that too. If we have, we deserve to have our assess handed to us.

Benton D Struckcheon

(2,347 posts)
61. I don't even begin to know how to answer this.
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:13 AM
Jun 2013

Actually, on second thought, I do: CIA agents, and all the rest, were considered, starting with George Washington, who ran a very effective spy ring on the British in the Revolution, an extension of the armed forces.
This is no different than a US citizen turning over plans for where soldiers in a combat zone are planning to strike next. You are right, if someone from the other side came here and did this, we'd lap it up too. But that person would, correctly, be considered a traitor to the country he came from.
No different than Snowden. I'm a US citizen, that's my perspective. He's a traitor.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
62. I doubt he DID get access to agent names.
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:17 AM
Jun 2013

He's blowing smoke, the same as when he claimed the world's Internet providers give 'direct access' to the NSA.

Of course time will tell.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.
[/center][/font]
[hr]

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
25. Imagine all the stressed out NSA people out there.
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 12:15 AM
Jun 2013

Last edited Wed Jun 26, 2013, 12:51 AM - Edit history (1)

and what their families are feeling right now. I mean the working schmucks not the brass who are safe behind a desk somewhere.

little fucker. I felt sorry for him for a while but I'm over that. He's a fucking moron that deserves to be put in prison for a long time.

flamingdem

(39,313 posts)
32. I just put this below but wanted you to check it ou
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 01:18 AM
Jun 2013
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/06/25/greenwald-snowden-s-files-are-out-there-if-anything-happens-to-him.html

* So snowden is somehow worth more than all the employees around the world, greenwad thinks so

Greenwald: Snowden’s Files Are Out There if ‘Anything Happens’ to Him

As the U.S. government presses Moscow to extradite former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden, America’s most wanted leaker has a plan B. The former NSA systems administrator has already given encoded files containing an archive of the secrets he lifted from his old employer to several people. If anything happens to Snowden, the files will be unlocked.
 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
48. This part:
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 02:05 AM
Jun 2013

“When I was in Hong Kong, I spoke to my partner in Rio via Skype and told him I would send an electronic encrypted copy of the documents,” Greenwald said. “I did not end up doing it. Two days later his laptop was stolen from our house and nothing else was taken. Nothing like that has happened before. I am not saying it’s connected to this, but obviously the possibility exists.”

--
Little weasel GG is making shit up for the drama.

flamingdem

(39,313 posts)
30. Very important information about Snowden having the rosters of worldwide agents
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 01:10 AM
Jun 2013

The fact that he's willing to release that if anything happens to him is despicable. He threatened that he had an information bomb set to go off in case.

He must think he can control the manner it is released but he's not the only hacker on the planet. If he's taken down those things can be revealed.

 

HangOnKids

(4,291 posts)
45. Then hack him.
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 01:53 AM
Jun 2013

Can you do that? My gut tells me you are blowing smoke, but carry on it is fucking HILARIOUS!

flamingdem

(39,313 posts)
46. About what? The fact that others can and will utilize his precious information for their own
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 01:57 AM
Jun 2013

nefarious ends.

The pro-Snowdens out there have yet to justify the secrets he handed over to the Chinese to save his own nerd butt

 

HangOnKids

(4,291 posts)
49. His own nerd butt?
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 02:09 AM
Jun 2013

The pro-Snowdens? I have a 12 year old and often have a house full of young girls, and NOWHERE have I ever heard anything so ridiculous. I hope you don't buy anything made in China, because of nerd butts and such! Laughing my ass off here. Priceless commentary.

flamingdem

(39,313 posts)
51. I kinda added the
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 02:24 AM
Jun 2013

nerd butt line for your enjoyment!

Snowden gets an A for audacity, I really do hope he gets out of it alive

 

Savannahmann

(3,891 posts)
63. Wrong question.
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 09:24 AM
Jun 2013

How did a network administrator get access to the rosters of world wide agents? Isn't that supposed to be some of the most securely held data? What are we doing with this stuff, just putting it out there for anyone? What is going on with the nuclear launch codes? Are we giving that to a fifteen year old girl who just got dumped by her boyfriend? What the hell is going on and who is responsible for the secrets? Between Manning and Snowden it sounds like we put them in a box, and tie it up with a piece of string with a post it note that says very secret, do not take.

flamingdem

(39,313 posts)
33. So Snowden is worth more than all those US employees around the world!?
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 01:21 AM
Jun 2013

* It's Machiavellian

Greenwald: Snowden’s Files Are Out There if ‘Anything Happens’ to Him

Snowden has shared encoded copies of all the documents he took so that they won’t disappear if he does, Glenn Greenwald tells Eli Lake.

As the U.S. government presses Moscow to extradite former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden, America’s most wanted leaker has a plan B. The former NSA systems administrator has already given encoded files containing an archive of the secrets he lifted from his old employer to several people. If anything happens to Snowden, the files will be unlocked.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/06/25/greenwald-snowden-s-files-are-out-there-if-anything-happens-to-him.html

Cha

(297,240 posts)
15. No thanks for sucking China's butt, Leaker .. The Censors in China do thank you..
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 11:56 PM
Jun 2013
In China, Snowden left an astonishing feat in his wake: he actually improved the credibility of government censors and information-security czars, who make up one of China’s most unloved groups. Fang Binxing, a computer scientist known as the “father of the Great Firewall” for his role in developing China’s censorship régime, is so unpopular among his countrymen that he has been pelted with eggs and shoes while giving speeches; when he opened a social-media account in 2010, people called him a “eunuch” and a “running dog” and someone Photoshopped his head onto a voodoo doll. For years, Fang justified government intervention on the Web largely by arguing, as he once did, that unseen enemies abroad “sit comfortably at home, thinking only of how, through their fingertips on a keyboard, they can bring chaos to China.” He warned that using telecom equipment from international companies like Cisco threatened China’s national security. Snowden has given Fang and his cohort new reasons to argue for stricter control of the Web.


thank you for the article, flamingdem

flamingdem

(39,313 posts)
31. Ah, and then there's Glenn putting out the threats
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 01:16 AM
Jun 2013
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/06/25/greenwald-snowden-s-files-are-out-there-if-anything-happens-to-him.html

* As noted in a post above the info includes the names of intel operatives around the world, so Snowden and Greenwald value their lives above these people who have taken risks for the US around the world, will wonders never cease!

Greenwald: Snowden’s Files Are Out There if ‘Anything Happens’ to Him

As the U.S. government presses Moscow to extradite former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden, America’s most wanted leaker has a plan B. The former NSA systems administrator has already given encoded files containing an archive of the secrets he lifted from his old employer to several people. If anything happens to Snowden, the files will be unlocked.

Cha

(297,240 posts)
36. Yeah, I saw the megalomaniac's threats.. while hyping the conspiracy
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 01:28 AM
Jun 2013

that China's good, Russia's good.. but, the Big Bad USA and especially PBO are baaaaaad. they might kill little ol me.

So, if he gets extradited back to here, the USA.. he'll release more shit and have even more charges pressed on him?

 

HangOnKids

(4,291 posts)
44. So now Hong Kong Eddie is a cheerleader for China and Russia
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 01:52 AM
Jun 2013

Does he have a cute uniform? You and your crew have made this thread a fucking BLAST.

 

markiv

(1,489 posts)
34. the Senate is trying to double H-1b visas this week
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 01:24 AM
Jun 2013

if the senate really gave a f--- about security, they wouldnt be replacing even more American IT with Indian and chinese nationals

The Snowden incident points up how incredibly rare it is, for an American born citizen with no other nationality ties to break the law and flee, giving up his life in the USA

For a chinese national, they would just get out of the US and go home

flamingdem

(39,313 posts)
35. I think that's bogus also. It's just a way to lower salaries
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 01:26 AM
Jun 2013

from what I understand.

The loyalty issue is obviously an element. Let's hope that doesn't get swept under the rug once the Republicans are done using the Snowden mess to attempt to destroy Obama on foreign policy. For once there was some agreement on Snowden, then Ryan opened his trap

 

markiv

(1,489 posts)
37. of course, it's about busting salaries - that's ALL it's about
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 01:28 AM
Jun 2013

but it does it at an incredible cost of corporate and national security

and it's not even about 'loyalty', (even though i think American citizens are more loyal). It's about one group having somewhere to go, and the other group having NOWHERE to go outside the reach of the FBI, for all practical purposes, unless they want to give up everything and everyone they know, and live as a shadow for the rest of their lives

there have been countless cases of indian and chinese H-1b visa nationals stealing info from employers and fleeing the country - the snowden case highlights how rare it is for a citizen to do that, and their incredible problems once they go 'on the lam'

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
58. they give foreign nationals access to us systems and technology.
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 05:37 AM
Jun 2013

why would they do that if they're concerned about it?

for that matter, why would they privatize the military and intelligence if they're concerned about it?

they're not concerned. there are no 'secrets'

JI7

(89,249 posts)
47. sucks for the people of China, but who gives a shit about them, we are the ones who are really
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 02:03 AM
Jun 2013

oppressed .

Democracyinkind

(4,015 posts)
53. Snowden is lying.
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 03:21 AM
Jun 2013

The assertion that he had access to a database pf every undercover agent of us intel is laughable, as any professional will tell you.

He got that from Mission Impossible (NOC-List). Such a thing does not exist in reality and even if it did it would not be stored in one place and certainly not at the NSA.

That people believe this is beyond me. Clearly this is another of his empty boasts a la "seeing your thoughts form as you type".

Why believe such extraordinary claims?

flamingdem

(39,313 posts)
54. I hope you're right, it doesn't take the whole list to cause havoc
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 03:23 AM
Jun 2013

and danger to employees and their families. In fact even if he has a handful of key people he could do great harm.

People are discounting this but I am wondering if he had some inside help from some very embedded people who might have gotten a lot of what he seemed to get with ease.

Democracyinkind

(4,015 posts)
55. Let's supposed it is true.
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 03:27 AM
Jun 2013

Wouldn't the conclusion be that our whole nationals security apparatus is a sham run by hopeless amateurs?
 

randome

(34,845 posts)
59. Excellent point.
Wed Jun 26, 2013, 07:05 AM
Jun 2013

He was never able to show evidence of his other claims, I doubt he has detailed agent info.

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