ZIMMERMAN TRIAL: Day 3, Wednesday June 26

[GreenStormCloud]

By having one big thread on the trial we can avoid a whole bunch of individual threads.

It can be watched live, without commercials at: http://www.mediaite.com/uncategorized/live-zimmerman-trial-jury-selection-day-6/

There is an excellent website, by liberals who are lawyers that has running comments on the trial, from a lawyer's perspective: http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php They talk about other stuff too, but that link is to the Z trial page.

[GreenStormCloud]

1. Jane Surdyka, resident at the place, testifying now.

She is a witness for the prosecution. Witness W-11

[Tommy_Carcetti]

2. Surdyka testifying she heard exchange of two voices.

One deeper and more dominant, the other higher pitched and softer.

Testimony as a back and forth exchange again goes against Zimmerman's story, who claimed Trayvon ambushed him a one line exchange.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

4. Scuffling back and forth, like "wrestling" nt

[Tommy_Carcetti]

5. Two yells for help. SOUNDED LIKE A BOY'S VOICE. nt

[riverwalker]

3. a very angry and aggressive voice

and a softer high pitch voice responding

[bravenak]

6. The boys voice yelling for help.

So sad.

[KurtNYC]

7. Her 911 call is so moving, so human.

"Why would this man shoot him?"

[Tommy_Carcetti]

8. Very emotional 911 call from her.

On the 911 call, she says the deceased yelled "help me, help me" and "then he shot him."

She does not seem happy or relieved that Zimmerman shot Trayvon. She's shaping up to be an excellent witness for the state.

[frylock]

116. he is cooked

[bunnies]

9. "why would someone kill someone like that"

wow. Powerful call.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

10. Clearly goes against a self-defense story. nt

[bunnies]

12. Yep. I dont know how he gets off after this.

And look at his smug face.

[uponit7771]

14. +1

[uponit7771]

11. WAIT!!! None of GZ's DNA on TMs hands?!?! Z said T covered his mouth to keep him from

...screaming and bashed his head against the concrete!!

How in the world is this possible?

No wonder the prosecution opened with it

[Tommy_Carcetti]

13. "I heard him yell for help"--ON THE 911 call. nt

[GreenStormCloud]

15. POWERFUL witness for the prosecution!

She is a well eductated person. She will be difficult for the defense to cross-examine.

[avebury]

16. Surdyka is a really strong witness for the

prosecution.

On HLN the blog : 9:42 a.m. ET: Surdyka does not seem fazed by listening to herself be emotional on the 911 call.

I totally disagree with that comment. She looks like she is fighting to keep herself together as she listened to the 911 tape.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

18. She grabbed for a tissue. nt

[GreenStormCloud]

19. She had to wipe a tear. N/T

[fried eggs]

17. If I were walking at night and something forced me to drop my phone and earpiece (as Trayvon did)...

To me, that signifies that Trayvon faced an immediate threat that didn't leave time to update his girlfriend, call the police, or just make sure that his expensive phone (which is probably more difficult to get as a teen) was not destroyed.

Can you think of anything that would cause you to abandon your cellphone during an encounter with someone who was following you?

[uponit7771]

20. +1

[GreenStormCloud]

27. Excellent point. N/T

[GreenStormCloud]

21. Defense is going to have to be very careful with her. N/T

[sad-cafe]

22. WHY are they not showing this on Tru-TV or Court TV? HLN is horrible

they can NOT stop interfering, they love their own voices

[Tommy_Carcetti]

23. Uninterrupted online feed:

http://wildabouttrial.com/george-zimmerman-live-stream.html

[riverwalker]

26. thanks

this is the only link that works for me

[GreenStormCloud]

24. Go to the link I posted in the OP.

It it just the trial, no commentary or commercials.

[Logical]

25. Thanks GreenStormCloud!

[GreenStormCloud]

28. She keeps saying that she heard three shots. N/T

[uponit7771]

29. Could have been echos... The defense is requiring the witness's to be 100% about non gating

...info

[Tommy_Carcetti]

31. The townhomes in the area of the shooting form a close "U"

I'm certain there would have to be some echoing in that arrangement.

[avebury]

30. "I can only tell you what I saw and he was faced down." nt

[riverwalker]

32. West getting little rough with her

better tread lightly (he is questioning how she knew it was a boys voice not a man with a high voice) he is coming off as a jerk

[avebury]

33. She is holding up pretty well. She is staying pretty

consistent on her testimony.

[chelsea0011]

34. Has to take down her testimony. It will be interesting when

Zimmerman takes stand as defense says he will and jurors hear his voice for the first time. Will it sound like a young boy's or an adult man? If it is a deeper adult man, the prosecution will have a big win.

[GreenStormCloud]

36. She has a conflict.

She has Z on top, TM face down on bottom, yet TM was shot in the front. No resolution of that conflict. That leaves a huge opening for the defense to later provide their own interpretation of that conflict.

[arely staircase]

42. z got on top of him some point after shooting him

making sure he was good and dead

[uponit7771]

47. Z said in his report to FBI he got on top of TM

[avebury]

35. This is the witness they should have used yesterday. nt

[GreenStormCloud]

37. I think they were expecting more from yesterday's witness.

She turned out to be somewhat disappointing.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

39. Yesterday's witness did testify that she saw the two standing while fighting.

Which contradicts Zimmerman's claim that he was immediately knocked down by Trayvon and stayed on the ground.

However, her testimony that she saw the two moved from left to right (i.e. up the "T" from her vantage point) could not be substantiated, as she hadn't told authorities that before.

There was the whole thing about her Facebook "like" of a "Justice for Trayvon" webpage, but IMHO that would only show bias if she "liked" it before she gave her statement to police. If not, probably not a big deal.

Today's witness though was powerful. Probably very sympathetic to the jury. And we have her initial reactions on the 911 tape which appear to show that she was upset by the shooting and didn't see it as Zimmerman defending himself from an ambush.

[fried eggs]

46. She, of all people, is entitled to her opinion

If she saw and heard things that led her to believe GZ is guilty, she of all people has the right to expect justice.

[GreenStormCloud]

38. I have to go to work now. I will depend on DU posters to keep me informed.

I won't be back until about 10:30 PM.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

40. Another resident, Jeannie Manalo is testifying. nt

[Tommy_Carcetti]

41. Heard a "howling" sound, later sounded like yelling for help. nt

[Tommy_Carcetti]

43. Testified that she saw a neighbor come out during fight, asked if they need to call police.

Then heard shot.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

44. Believes person on top in fight was Zimmerman based on body size. nt

[Tommy_Carcetti]

45. Heard cries for help but not sure who said it. nt

[uponit7771]

48. That would make sense relative to Z's statement afterwards, I don't believe for a second TM

...was shot then somehow ended face down and Z still struggling with him

Z had to turn him over at some time

[riverwalker]

49. West is questioning

why she (Ms.Manalo) assumed the bigger person was Zimmerman, asking her which photos of Trayvon and Zimmerman had she seen, and that she assumed the smaller person was Trayvon based on the football photo which is younger photo. He will resume this track with her after lunch.

[uponit7771]

51. ...that was a stupid question the defense raised

[pokerfan]

55. Loved BDLR's redirect

which consisted of one question: "The person who was on top was the person who got up?"
"Yes."
"No further questions."

BAM!

[fried eggs]

50. The witness (Jane) told 911 operator she couldn't think of anyone she could call to talk

That saddened me. She sounds like such a wonderful, caring person.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

52. They are calling back the 911 records custodian.

Presumably to play Zimmerman's prior dispatch calls to police which the judge ruled were admissible as evidence.

[riverwalker]

53. starting to play the other calls by Zimmerman

he is no longer catatonic, kind of shifting around and blinking now....the tapes making him nervous.
very animated now compared to earlier.

[riverwalker]

56. "they typically run away"

blink blink blink blink

[KurtNYC]

58. the defense didn't want the calls allowed in

[uponit7771]

64. My understanding is there are a bunch of em about black kids in his neighborhood

[arely staircase]

54. these defense lawyers are sleeping pills

Zimmerman is going to prison.

[uponit7771]

62. done on purpose to put jury to sleep

[Tommy_Carcetti]

57. RACHEL JENTELE ON NOW (was on the phone with Trayvon right before shooting) nt

[riverwalker]

59. "a man is watching me"

"the man looked creepy"
"creepy ass cracker"

[Tommy_Carcetti]

60. She told Trayvon it might have been a rapist.

Trayvon said he was going to try to lose him.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

65. Trayvon told her he was going to leave the mail box area, start walking home.

He then said, "The n____ is still following me."

[Tommy_Carcetti]

67. She then told him to run.

Witness is hard to understand, but no red flags yet as to why her story would be fabricated.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

71. She lost the phone call, called back.

Trayvon said he lost them.

Then Trayvon said "Oh shit. That n____ behind me."

She told him to run, he said he was almost home.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

79. A voice said to Trayvon, "What are you doing here?"

Then she heard sounds on the phone and it cut off.

[woolldog]

72. Weird how they're having so much trouble understanding her.

I don't find her hard to understand.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

75. Well I don't think she's coached, that's for sure.

Which is good for the prosecution.

[riverwalker]

63. She "he might be a rapist"

Trayvon: "Nah stop playing me like that"
"I'm going to try to lose him"

[KurtNYC]

61. She thought Zim might be a rapist (!)

[riverwalker]

68. said he was going home

for her to check and see when the All Star game is on TV
and the N* is still following me

[riverwalker]

69. said he lost him

and was almost to his daddy fiancé house
then oh shit

[riverwalker]

74. he is behind me

she said run
she went to fix her hair and heard "why are you following me"
then "what are you doing around here"

[Tommy_Carcetti]

73. Oh hello there.

Pull up a seat.

Make yourself comfortable.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

83. Apparently, you'd find her more believable if he was speaking the Queens English?

[riverwalker]

78. that's how kids talk

hell, I am old and even I know street talk. Where do you live, Mayberry?

[Democracyinkind]

80. So what? the trial is about his murder, not about his slurs.

[uponit7771]

81. really?!

[riverwalker]

88. buh-bye

the bus for Hooterville is leaving now

[noiretextatique]

98. no amount of evidence will convince racist assholes

who believe they have a right to shoot black people. bye-bye

[Tommy_Carcetti]

87. Next we'll hear that Zimmerman had to be innocent because he was half Hispanic and a registered Dem.

Bank on it.

[Democracyinkind]

84. Enjoy your stay.

[noiretextatique]

97. YOU?

[Cali_Democrat]

103. Looks like the pro-zimmerman racists are back after a one year hiatus.

Welcome back.

[noiretextatique]

154. quite a few of them today

none of them seem to understand DNA evidence. no zimmerman DNA on martin's hands, and they are still claiming he threw the first punch.

[uponit7771]

77. RJ Hears Trayvon say "get off ... get off"

[Democracyinkind]

82. I think she just completely destroyed Zimmys narrative...

[uponit7771]

86. They will have to go after her REALLY REALLY tough...the "get off, get off" part is horrible

[Democracyinkind]

89. I think so too. I'm dreading what the defense has planned...

[sad-cafe]

93. oh wow, I have tears in my eyes

that poor girl is so hurt

[Tommy_Carcetti]

99. They are going to be a caged animal at this point.

Unfortunately I don't think they are going to hold back, witnesses emotional state and younger age be damned.

We'll see how she holds up.

Smart on the prosecution to bring up her having changed the story about attending the wake. Takes the air out of the defense's attack. There's nothing more frustrating for an attorney for your opponent to bring up your argument and then diffuse it himself.

[riverwalker]

92. devastating testimony

"he is following me" destroys Zimmermans story

[avebury]

104. The defense may have to be tough on her but if they go to

far they will only hurt Zimmerman. All in all I think that the Prosecution is having a pretty good day.

[uponit7771]

90. I didn't want to see the body...omg, for a teenager...I felt what she said in a split second

...she's crying now

[Tommy_Carcetti]

96. Wow, that was powerful stuff. nt

[uponit7771]

94. She told the parents she felt guilty for being the LAST PERSON talking to TM, that's why

...she lied about going to the wake.

[Democracyinkind]

95. 15 min recess

[uponit7771]

100. WHY IS THE PA OR JUDGE allowing questions about where she went?! Who cares?! It's not relevant

...to what she heard that night!!!!

[KurtNYC]

102. I think because the defense will try to discredit her about the wake so

they have to allow the prosecution to go through that stuff and get her reasoning out there first.

[uponit7771]

105. ...but why would the judge allow the questions on the wake in the first place? I don't understa

...understand that part.... what does it prove if she stayed home...went to school or even went to bed?

It sounds silly to even allow


The little girls testimony was shaking imh....


just....wow...


I pray I or no one else is EVER EVERY in TM's parents shoes....

[Tommy_Carcetti]

110. Defense could have used it as impeachment material.

Even if it's not directly relevant to the main issues of the case.

[KurtNYC]

112. Because, if I understand this correctly, she didn't come forward right away

to tell anyone that she had been on the phone with TM during this incident. Circumstantially that can make it look like she waited for other facts to be established before giving her version of the story. The Defense will definitely go after this. They may claim that she is just trying to help her dead friend any way she can.

Unlike the 911 calls which are recorded, there is no audio for her calls with TM so there is only her remembrance of what was said.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

106. Diffuses the defense's argument.

The Defense would hit her hard on the fact that she lied about going to Trayvon's wake (not really relevant to the case, but still grounds for impeachment).

If the prosecutor brings it up and has her explain it before the defense even gets a chance to bring it up on cross, it takes the wind out of the defense's sail and helps their witness.

[KurtNYC]

101. The "knock knock" lawyer was objecting to her answering in narrative form (?)

Then said he couldn't see her unless he stood up. Judge shut him down and said this is the first witness you have had that issue with.

Knock knock is going to be awkward on cross, no doubt.

[uponit7771]

107. ...what a jerk...I pray TM's friend rips them a whole new Orifice

[KurtNYC]

111. Zim's lawyers will have to try to make TM out as the aggressor

so they will have to go after the race related language and also discredit this young woman.

She need not rip anything -- just stick with the truth and let the defense come across like heartless jerks that will try to tell her she didn't hear what she heard or she doesn't remember it the way it happened.

What is coming up after this break may well be the most interesting cross of this trial.

[riverwalker]

108. Her story has not changed

it has been consistent. I think she will hold up ok.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

109. Doesn't appear embelished, either.

The dialogue and phrases that she describes Trayvon using sounds believable and natural, and not forced.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

113. My feed keeps on freezing.

Arrrgh!

[riverwalker]

114. this works good

http://wildabouttrial.com/george-zimmerman-live-stream.html

[Democracyinkind]

115. Defense now saying there's 30-40 min between Trayvon @ store and Zimmy calling cops on him

Distance of store to complex about a mile, according to defense

[riverwalker]

117. I don't know why they focus on this

It would take me 30 minutes to walk a city mile

[Democracyinkind]

118. I think they're trying to imply that he lingered, didn't go directly

As you correctly imply, the timeline doesn't really suggest lingering

[pokerfan]

159. Google Maps

http://goo.gl/maps/OxWbn

It doesn't show the shortcut, but even so, I fail to understand the defense's point. He was talking on his phone off and on. Maybe he stopped one or more times under a tree or awning. Who cares?

[riverwalker]

119. father is breaking down weeping n/t

[warrior1]

120. Travon's father

is breaking down

[Democracyinkind]

122. I can't watch the parents (I assume the woman next to him is the mother) without starting to cry...

[riverwalker]

125. he had to do police work

and contact the last people on his phone, police never contacted her

[Democracyinkind]

121. Defense asking why she didn't contact cops after learning of Trayvon's death

She says she believed that the cops come to you, not the other way around.

Don't know what the relevance of this is.

[chelsea0011]

128. No relevance, just as there was no relevance to defense asking if they met

in kindergarten and then didn't see each other until 2006 in high school. Defense attorney's want to create discomfort and pile on a little more discomfort to muddy the waters away from what is relevant.

[avebury]

123. The knock knock guy gets on my nerves.

She is a teenager. You cannot expect a teenager to react the same way that an adult would.

[riverwalker]

126. I don't think the jury is going to like him

he is so patronizing to all the (female) witnesses.

[uponit7771]

131. +1

[WinkyDink]

124. I wish this witness would be told to speak more loudly.

I'll leave it at that. But "The First 48 Hours" reference?

[Democracyinkind]

130. I don't think volume is really the issue.

it took me some minutes to get used to the way she talks. I feel like I'm understanding her pretty well now.

[Democracyinkind]

127. Defense now questioning her motives in making testimony to attorneys

Trying to establish that she only talked to Trayvon's father's attorney after she realized that there was a "racial" component to his shooting.

[sad-cafe]

129. the defense is trying to get her to blow up

he clearly has no idea how to talk or work with teens.

[uponit7771]

132. wow...what jerks

[Marrah_G]

133. This poor girl

[Tommy_Carcetti]

135. Caged animals.

Speaking objectively, the defense cannot let her recollection of events stand, as it obliterates Zimmerman's story. They are going to have to cast as much doubt on it as they can.

[noiretextatique]

150. i am not sure anyone is buying his argument

it is not very convinving. the girl didn't want to get involved, but apparently the martin's parents convinced her to tell her story. much ado about very little.

[Democracyinkind]

134. Defense now repeatedly bringing up that witness lied

Lied about

1) Reason for not going to wake and memorial

2) About her age in her initial interview with Trayvon's father's attorney

Defense has mentioned these 2 lies at least 4 times in the last 5 minutes, going back and forth.

And I shit you not but I think the Defense just said that they wanted to object to their own question. Judge says you can't object to your own questions. (A specific kind of objection, I missed it, am not familiar with US court proceedings)

Have now approached the bench.

(Sorry: I am not all too familiar with these proceedings. I wish someone else would also live-blog this in this thread, I feel like I'm not doing too good of a job)

[Democracyinkind]

136. Defense asking if witness was aware that her testimony in first inteview would go to press

I think they're trying to establish that Treyvon's parents /their attorneys had ulterior motives in setting up the inteview. She says she didn't specifically consent to it being made public via the press.

She learned that her testimony (voice) on TV the next day, when her brother called.

He keeps asking if she saw the interview, although she repeatedly said that she categorically does not watch the news.

Now harking on the press portraying her as "his 16 year old girlfriend", implying that she is responsible for it. She denies, says they got the impressions from text messages (between her and Trayvon).

"You never told tem that you were Tryvon's girlfriend"?

"No, there was just stuff going on"

"Did you expect to become his gf"

"No, there was another girl that he was involved with"

--- (from memory)

I take this to mean that there probably were texts of an intimate/sexual nature, from which one could get the impression that they had something going on. She admits "something went on between them", but denies that she was his gf or expected to become it.

[noiretextatique]

147. that defense attorney is really irritating

and i'm just looking at him on tv. i don't think he is coming off well with the jury.

[Democracyinkind]

149. I'm trying to be as impartial as I can be.. BUT

there's something about him, the way he talks, his body language, that is seriously pissing me off. I hope that this is not just my bias against the defense. I think we are not the only ones perceiving this though.

[noiretextatique]

156. he seems and odd choice

because he's not very likeable.

[riverwalker]

137. where is knock knock going with this? n/t

[Democracyinkind]

138. I have no clue where he wants to go with this...??

Somehow trying to imply that she isn't telling the truth - about wake, about memorial, about age, about relationship with Trayvon.???

But it's not very convincing, at least to me.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

139. Did Trayvon like you, or did he *like you*? Wink, wink.

Not a whole lot of an attack on her actually story, though.

Tales of a scorched earth?

[Democracyinkind]

140. Asking about her expectations about becoming Trayvon's girlfriend

just to provide the answer himself - because of another girl. Classy move there, Knock-Knock.

This is purely speculative: It looks to me like she's getting pissed. Something about the way she's looking at defense attorney.

[riverwalker]

141. Seems he is trying to wear her down

and she is getting tired. Hope she can hang in there.

[riverwalker]

143. 15 min recess n/t

[Cali_Democrat]

148. Poor girl

She's just a teenager.

Hang in there!

[dmr]

142. I like Rachel. I think she's very credible.

I like how she's giving West a run for his money.

He's trying to trip her up, and she's just too no-nonsense.

"I told you, I don't watch the news!"

[noiretextatique]

151. i saw that part

she was getting irritated with him because she said it several times. this guy comes off like a real idiot, imho.

[cpwm17]

152. She's terrible

She's unlikeable, selfish, incurious, dishonest, and she seems to have little interest in finding justice for her former friend.

[avebury]

155. She is a teenager. What else did you expect?

She is not well educated and really does not understand the process and what is going on. A lot of kids that age are self absorbed.

[cpwm17]

158. Whatever the reasons she acts this way

She's still a very bad witness.

[noiretextatique]

157. i thought she held her

and it was clear to me, at least, that she did not want to get involved in this. i think a lot of people don't want to get involved, so she's hardly different than most in being selfish. she told a few weird lies, but i don't think that will seriously affect her testimony.

[Marrah_G]

162. I didn't find her to be like that at all

She looked like a nervous teenage girl forced into a situation she does not want to be in.

[B2G]

160. She's a hot mess

Are we watching the same trial??

[cpwm17]

163. TM's poor father broke into tears listening to her atrocious testimony

Last edited Wed Jun 26, 2013, 06:31 PM - Edit history (1)

He's obviously fearful that GM will get away with murder.

[Marrah_G]

164. She is a teenage girl

Under the circumstances she has been placed in by no fault of her own, I think she is doing fine.

[Democracyinkind]

144. 15 min recess

[Democracyinkind]

145. "Are you listening??"

I like how she's not being intimidated by him...

Defense is now clearly trying to piss her off / wear her down.

Defense implied that they could adjourn if she needs more time to read her previous testimony.. She went like "oh no" (she wants to get over with it as fast as she can). He repeatedly asks her " Are you refusing to come tomorrow?" Judge orders attorney to stick to question and answers about case, not about scheduling.

Defense now pounding on the fact the she didn't positively identify Trayvon's voice in 911 call, said "it's possible that it's him" (how can she be sure?)

Attorney says he needs some additional hours for questiong. Witness goes "Whaaaaaaat???". Judge adjourns until tomorrow.

[noiretextatique]

153. she held her own pretty well

defense jerk is looking like an asshole.

[ksoze]

161. Bad witness who is an adult and has been proven to lie and change stories

Her mumbling and anger will not play well for the jury and her relationship with the family lawyer will become an issue.

[Just Saying]

165. She comes across as young and nervous

Her reasons for the lies seem credible as does the rest of her testimony. I think her anger as you put it looks like frustration and as the jury has to sit and listen to this boring line of questioning too, they're frustrated also.

[Democracyinkind]

166. could you be any more condescending?

I take it you don't often interact with other classes...

[ksoze]

167. condescending to whom?

I will assume this is a misplaced post.

[Democracyinkind]

168. to her???

"mumbling"????? people talk differently. I think she did well, given that all of this is very traumatic for her.

Her reasons for "lying" are completely understandable.

[Democracyinkind]

146. Adjourned for today.

For last interaction, see my post above.

It's high time I hit the streets and have some fun, even if it won't be easy after watching this... But after all, this is my first vacation in almost 2 years. Looking forward to keeping myself informed about the trial on DU, I probably won't have time to do this again.