If we pulled ALL our troops out of the Middle East...would it hurt anybody OTHER than the rich?

[Ken Burch]

Seems a good question to ask at this point.

It's not like we've made anything better anywhere with all the loss and all the killing.

And it doesn't fucking MATTER who wins between the Shiites and the Sunnis....the differences between them aren't worth anybody's lives...it's nobody's business but the Sunnis and the Shiites as to which side "wins" that one, assuming that "winning" as we used to know it is even possible.

[BainsBane]

1. Gas prices could go up

If governments take over that don't want to sell to the US.

[truebluegreen]

17. I doubt it.

There is a worldwide oil market. Gas we pump out of our public lands, private lands, and offshore coastal shelves is not "our" gas, and does not lower the price at our pumps. Why would their gas be different?

OTOH, if we want to see petroleum go to $300 a barrel, we should bomb Iran.

[jonthebru]

2. Women, Children and

anyone who sided with our side would generally eat shit.

[Ken Burch]

7. OK, so get those people out.

We did that with the right-wing minority in Vietnam, we can do that here.

[cali]

11. they are already "eating shit"

in both Iraq and Afghanistan. It's incredibly hard to see how it would be much worse. Anyone paying attention to what's been happening in both countries is aware of that.

[snot]

3. Given that the sooner we get off fossil fuels, the better for the planet and us,

nope.

[Scootaloo]

4. What'll really blow your mind...

Would this shit be happening if we hadn't gotten involved in the first place?

I don't think it would. It probably wouldn't be a paradise in the middle east.. .but every conflict currently happening traces back to European / American involvement. Yes, including the current sectarian warfare, as that primarily stems from western support and funding of the Sauds and, through them, the salafist shitbags.

[East Coast Pirate]

13. We put the Saudis in power for cheap oil.

Iraq was created by the British Empire. We took Iran. They know we did this and that's why they hate us.

[truebluegreen]

18. Agree!

And there are many scholars who trace to radicalization of Islam to the overthrow of Mossadegh in Iran in 1953.

Brought to us, of course, by our very own CIA (only a few years old at that time) at the behest of the Brits.

[HiPointDem]

5. power vacuum = struggle for power = people hurt

[Ken Burch]

6. All of which are happening now.

We haven't provided ANY stability, and in Libya, for example, we clearly made things worse by the fact that, rather than putting democracy first, our troops fought for privatization and cuts in social services first, immiserating the people to please U.S. oil companies.

[cali]

12. but that's happening now. Maybe it would get better. Maybe it would get worse.

difficult to predict. And we're not engaging in Iraq and Afghan forces have taken the lead in that country.

[Turbineguy]

8. Well, they've worked out

the trickle down pain pretty well.

[truebluegreen]

19. +1

Our biggest export.

[on point]

9. Women and basic human rights. I don't know we are helping, but the neo dark ages are not...

[Ken Burch]

10. We aren't protecting anyone's human rights.

We damn sure haven't helped any of the women of Afghanistan. If all we've done there so far is to ally ourselves with reactionary tribal warlords(none of whom disagree with the Taliban on anything)that's all we ever CAN do.

You can't make alliances with devils at one point and still make them with angels later.

[Scootaloo]

14. Oh for fuck's sake

Considering how many women - and humans in general - are fucking dead, deceased, no more of this world because of our operations? You think we blow up entire families at Pakistani weddings because we're concerned the women might be alive under patriarchy or something? You think our overwhelming support for the slave-traders of the UAE and Kuwait are good for women? You think our funding and arming the Saudi regime is helping out women there? Did obliterating progressive social democracies in Iran and Afghanistan help women in these places? Do you think handing Israel missiles for free, for its bi-annual Gaza turkey shoot does a lot of favors for the women living there, or in Israel for that matter? You think arming and funding the Salafist shitfucks in Syria and yemen is going to usher in a new era of women's rights in these nations? Our big buddy Mubarak, real champion of women's rights! How about our absolute best friend in the region for twenty years, Saddam Hussein? Ever seen pictures of the rape rooms built into the prisons we paid him to build? His buddy - our buddy - Shah Pahlavi had the same operation set up. Women never said no to the Shah. or his men. Or the police. Or the extensive secret police.

Maybe things wouldn't be a paradise without us, but don't clasp your hands and sell us - or yourself - this bullshit that somehow oue own rapist-protecting military is over there being a stalwart force for good for the women there.

[cali]

15. Actually, we know how things are shaking out

in both Afghanistan and Iraq because in both countries the U.S. is no longer taking the lead. In Iraq, the U.S. military role has officially ended. Things suck in both countries, and yes they've gotten worse, but that was predictable and is no excuse for keeping U.S. forces in either country. Unfortunately, we'll keep troops in both countries.

[GoneFishin]

16. Agreed. I don't believe we are going. Given our history of never actually leaving when we say we

are going to, I won't believe we are out until I know definitively how many private contractors and "advisors" are remaining. More and more private mercenaries are a way for the hawks to have their cake and eat it too. They get to stay and meddle, and protect the interests of the oil companies, while lacking a chain of military command and accountability.