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xchrom

(108,903 posts)
Sun Jun 30, 2013, 07:53 AM Jun 2013

A Catholic, a Baptist, and a Secular Humanist Walk Into a Soup Kitchen ...

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/06/a-catholic-a-baptist-and-a-secular-humanist-walk-into-a-soup-kitchen/277379/


Therapy dogs and their handlers from Therapy Dogs International walk down a ravaged street in Moore, Oklahoma. (Sue Ogrocki/AP)

In his Time Magazine cover story last week on veterans and public service, journalist Joe Klein stepped outside the line of his narrative to take a swipe at secular humanists. Describing his personal experience in the aftermath of the Oklahoma tornado working alongside an "army of relief workers" including "church groups from all over the country," he remarked, "funny how you don't see organized groups of secular humanists giving out hot meals..."

It turns out that Klein was wrong on the facts. There were plenty of humanist groups involved in relief efforts - clearing wreckage, raising aid for local relief organizations, donating money to survivors, and supporting food banks. As Dale McGowan pointed out in The Washington Post on June 27, perhaps the greatest irony is that in the very same sentence that Klein took a potshot at humanists, he extolled Team Rubicon, a veterans organization that happened to be the primary beneficiary of a post-superstorm Sandy fund drive organized by the secular charity, Foundation Beyond Belief.

It's also worth pointing out the obvious: many secular humanists, atheists, and freethinkers contributed to disaster-relief efforts even if they did not do so while wearing hats and T-shirts that advertised their belief system. Had Klein made the same point about any other group--such as, "funny how you don't see any organized groups of Hindus, Korean-Americans, or gay activists giving out hot meals"--his aside would have been so obviously offensive that it would never have made it past his editor.

Klein's waffling response when called out by peeved secularists didn't help too much. He took the criticism of his reporting as an opportunity to express some personal opinions on religious questions.
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A Catholic, a Baptist, and a Secular Humanist Walk Into a Soup Kitchen ... (Original Post) xchrom Jun 2013 OP
You're apparently nobody if you don't have the right membership card Scootaloo Jun 2013 #1
The quote was originally from Mark Twain as I understand it. xtraxritical Jun 2013 #30
Well, that pisses me off first thing this morning. OneGrassRoot Jun 2013 #2
... xchrom Jun 2013 #3
All else being equal, Joe Klein is an asshole Orrex Jun 2013 #4
Apparently, within Time he is called joke Line ChairmanAgnostic Jun 2013 #7
I like it! Orrex Jun 2013 #8
A DUzy~! Demeter Jun 2013 #38
I agree. Does anyone have a contact email for him? I couldnt find one. nm rhett o rick Jun 2013 #17
He's going to write a book about this apparently... progressoid Jun 2013 #23
Are Jerks Like Klein Born, Made, or Born Again? Demeter Jun 2013 #5
morning, miss demeter! xchrom Jun 2013 #6
Born Again Yesterday, apparently Warpy Jun 2013 #26
A Palpable DUzy, that one! Demeter Jun 2013 #37
Good and thoughtful article. mountain grammy Jun 2013 #9
Klein suffers a malady common among many journalists: Their ego leads them to think they are . . . . Stinky The Clown Jun 2013 #10
Gee, Joe, maybe you didn't see the secular folks.... Jerry442 Jun 2013 #11
That comment is the other side of Joe's coin. Tit for tat? marble falls Jun 2013 #12
reminds me of a Terry Pratchett quote catrose Jun 2013 #14
Love to see someone else citing Terry Pratchett Hekate Jun 2013 #35
Totally! catrose Jun 2013 #39
Gee, Joe, maybe you didn't see the secular folks.... AlbertCat Jul 2013 #46
Says it all: "...while wearing hats and T-shirts that advertised their belief system." Towlie Jun 2013 #13
OK Klein, this secular humanist wants all, repeat, all the money back I have given sarge43 Jun 2013 #15
The strategy is simple. De-fund public education. Ask for religious (read Christian) help. Gov helps rhett o rick Jun 2013 #16
Not to mention that Occupy has also been involved starroute Jun 2013 #18
I'm with Orrex. Joe Klein is an asshole. ancianita Jun 2013 #19
"It turns out that Klein was wrong on the facts" KansDem Jun 2013 #20
Funny how you don't see any wealthy corporations ...... Where was Wal*Mart? Exxon Mobil? Coyotl Jun 2013 #21
Mr Klein responds... progressoid Jun 2013 #22
That tap dance is worthy of Gene Kelly nt sarge43 Jun 2013 #24
Gee Joe, you didn't find military service so "intriguing" when you had a chance to actually do it. Jerry442 Jun 2013 #27
sounds like one of those idiot log cabin republicans rurallib Jun 2013 #31
??? Hissyspit Jun 2013 #32
Any article secondvariety Jun 2013 #33
oh but wait!!! Skittles Jun 2013 #41
Ah Joe, this sect hum and ole sarge suggests you pick up the white clue phone sarge43 Jun 2013 #34
oo, a male S.E. Cupp--just what this country needed... MisterP Jul 2013 #42
What I get from this is "It pays to advertise" Kurovski Jul 2013 #44
I believe that they sustain an essential part of citizenship that the rest of us have lost track of AlbertCat Jul 2013 #47
You skipped the money paragraph... MADem Jul 2013 #51
What a narrowminded, bigoted idiot. ananda Jun 2013 #25
Hey, Mr. Klein, have you ever used an internet search? Humanist Crisis Response... DreamGypsy Jun 2013 #28
Happy not to know who Joe Klien is. roody Jun 2013 #29
As my favorite Brit comedian David Mitchell would say of Joe Klein: DeSwiss Jun 2013 #36
Love Mitchell progressoid Jul 2013 #48
Pope Francis said "we shall meet at the juncture of doing good", seems to me that was the case. CarmanK Jun 2013 #40
Joe Klein is perhaps fearful that if he does not engage in enough public hippie-punching... Kurovski Jul 2013 #43
Klein: "Why would people do anything to help others without the impetus of invisible magical people Arugula Latte Jul 2013 #45
Cant believe that guy made it through Journalism school! (nt) LostOne4Ever Jul 2013 #49
Google "Joe Klein". switch to image search. Read what it says at the top where searches are refined. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2013 #50
Bwaaaahahahahahaha! progressoid Jul 2013 #52
I deeply believe in charity, mercy, forgiveness, compassion,... Deep13 Jul 2013 #53
 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
1. You're apparently nobody if you don't have the right membership card
Sun Jun 30, 2013, 08:04 AM
Jun 2013

To steal from Groucho, I'd never want to be in a club that would take me as a member.

Doesn't bother me too much, really. I don't want to be identified by what I don't believe in. Just by not believing in it, it's kinda obvious that the whole "thing" isn't fucking important to me. I'm more about being identified as "the guy who isn't an asshole." Perhaps Joe Klein's opinion differs on that particular point

Orrex

(63,213 posts)
4. All else being equal, Joe Klein is an asshole
Sun Jun 30, 2013, 09:06 AM
Jun 2013

It kills me when the media offers him up as a Liberal spokesperson.

progressoid

(49,991 posts)
23. He's going to write a book about this apparently...
Sun Jun 30, 2013, 03:34 PM
Jun 2013
I’m going to be spending the next nine months on book leave, trying to drill down into this area. That means my presence here in the Swamp and the magazine will be limited. I’ll miss you. Some of you. And I will be back, when the high sheriffs deem it necessary.


Read more: http://swampland.time.com/2013/06/25/secular-humanist-watch/#ixzz2XjJXhxw7


Stinky The Clown

(67,807 posts)
10. Klein suffers a malady common among many journalists: Their ego leads them to think they are . . . .
Sun Jun 30, 2013, 10:12 AM
Jun 2013

. . . . bigger than the stories they write about.

Hey Joe . . . . bite me.

Jerry442

(1,265 posts)
11. Gee, Joe, maybe you didn't see the secular folks....
Sun Jun 30, 2013, 10:14 AM
Jun 2013

...because they were too busy actually helping people instead of sucking up to the bigtime reporter, bragging on how virtuous and generous they are.

catrose

(5,068 posts)
14. reminds me of a Terry Pratchett quote
Sun Jun 30, 2013, 10:24 AM
Jun 2013

which I don't claim to be exact: "While you were on your knees, why didn't you scrub the floor?"

catrose

(5,068 posts)
39. Totally!
Sun Jun 30, 2013, 09:04 PM
Jun 2013

Long live Terry! With his faculties, of course.

A new Discworld is coming out this autumn!

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
46. Gee, Joe, maybe you didn't see the secular folks....
Mon Jul 1, 2013, 01:27 AM
Jul 2013

I was gonna say, He didn't see them because they were not proselytizing and showing off how "generous" and holy they are.

Look closer, Jackass.

Towlie

(5,324 posts)
13. Says it all: "...while wearing hats and T-shirts that advertised their belief system."
Sun Jun 30, 2013, 10:21 AM
Jun 2013

"Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." -- Matthew 6, 1-4

sarge43

(28,941 posts)
15. OK Klein, this secular humanist wants all, repeat, all the money back I have given
Sun Jun 30, 2013, 10:28 AM
Jun 2013

to charities and relief efforts. By the way, I've never deducted any of it from my taxes. Can your church groups say the same?

.
.
.
.
.
.

Didn't think so.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
16. The strategy is simple. De-fund public education. Ask for religious (read Christian) help. Gov helps
Sun Jun 30, 2013, 10:35 AM
Jun 2013

fund the religious organizations. Coming soon, Christian schools and Christian hospitals, etc.

starroute

(12,977 posts)
18. Not to mention that Occupy has also been involved
Sun Jun 30, 2013, 10:42 AM
Jun 2013

For example, OpOK Relief is having a clean-up event today:

Saturday – 9:00am to 8:00pm (6/29): Major cleanup operation in Newalla this weekend. The property at the end of Blueridge Road East in Newalla has severe tornado damage, and the homeowner has not received any help with cleaning it up. Her trailer was completely destroyed, and her quilt workshop as well. A large number of trees were also decimated by the storm. This weekend, we will be focusing on tree removal and moving some of the debris up to the road so it can be cleared out. It’s a large project, and we can use all the volunteers we can get!




Lots more listed at their Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/OpOKRelief


 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
21. Funny how you don't see any wealthy corporations ...... Where was Wal*Mart? Exxon Mobil?
Sun Jun 30, 2013, 11:11 AM
Jun 2013

Not to mention billionaires

progressoid

(49,991 posts)
22. Mr Klein responds...
Sun Jun 30, 2013, 03:33 PM
Jun 2013

http://swampland.time.com/2013/06/25/secular-humanist-watch/

Well, there’s been a bit of a kerfuffle about my observation in this week’s cover story, that you don’t see organized groups of secular humanists giving out hot meals in disaster relief areas like Moore, Oklahoma, after the tornados. Let me explain.

First of all, I consider myself a secular humanist. ....

There is, I know, something mealy-mouthed and uncommitted about my squishy spirituality. And that is part of what I was thinking about when I made the observation about organized groups of secular humanists not being present in disaster zones. As a society, we’ve lost a good deal of our sense of communitarian commitment. That’s not a novel observation, of course. It was best made by Robert Putnam in Bowling Alone, twenty years ago. But the churches–disdained and sometimes ridiculed in my part of the world, Acela world–still have it. Many of their teachings are improbably literal and sometimes close-minded to the point of ugliness; but the church groups are always out there, in droves, when a disaster happens.

There was a time when secular service organizations had a greater sway in this country and, no doubt, a greater presence when disaster struck. But that’s not true now–although, it is certainly true, as my critics point out, that secular humanists, including atheists, can be incredibly generous. I never meant to imply they weren’t. But they are not organized. The effects of this post-modern atomization is something I’ve been trying to puzzle through for most of my career. That’s why I find the military, and the community values that are at the heart of military culture, so intriguing. That’s why I find the groups featured in my cover story about public service this week so inspiring. I believe that they sustain an essential part of citizenship that the rest of us have lost track of, the importance of being an active part of something larger than yourself.




rurallib

(62,416 posts)
31. sounds like one of those idiot log cabin republicans
Sun Jun 30, 2013, 06:53 PM
Jun 2013

Joey, Joey
If you want to join a religion you can. They'll take your money - they really don't give a shit about your soul......
And sign up for that military you love maybe it will save some poor kid......

sarge43

(28,941 posts)
34. Ah Joe, this sect hum and ole sarge suggests you pick up the white clue phone
Sun Jun 30, 2013, 07:44 PM
Jun 2013

Run that community values thing by a gay who summarily discharged just because he was gay or a service woman who was raped, ignored and summarily discharged because she was pregnant or the African American who was assigned to a slo mo career field simply simply because she was black and female.

Hate to take the shine off, but the military can be a pit of rabid wolves that eat their own. But you would have known that had you bothered to sign up.

Kurovski

(34,655 posts)
44. What I get from this is "It pays to advertise"
Mon Jul 1, 2013, 01:04 AM
Jul 2013

When our neighborhood in a small coastal town lost power for one week during major storms in the state (during which I-5 was literally underwater), we all took care of each other.

Klein hangs out with the kind of political sociopaths who seek power. He's far removed from what happens in the world with people who are not roiling with self-interests. If he's not presented with someone wearing a tee shirt telling him otherwise, he must simply assume the status quo.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
47. I believe that they sustain an essential part of citizenship that the rest of us have lost track of
Mon Jul 1, 2013, 01:32 AM
Jul 2013

.....the importance of being an active part of something larger than yourself.

Speak for yourself Joe...what you mean "we"?

MADem

(135,425 posts)
51. You skipped the money paragraph...
Mon Jul 1, 2013, 02:46 AM
Jul 2013
First of all, I consider myself a secular humanist. It seems, somewhat to my surprise, that some people equate that term with atheism. You can certainly be a secular humanist and an atheist; but you can also be, as I am, a secular humanist for whom the jury is out on the question of the divine providence. To my mind, secular humanists are those who lack the scientific certitude of atheists, and also lack the spiritual certitude of the religious. It makes perfect sense to me: Can atheists be absolutely sure that there’s nothing after this? Can believers be sure that there is?



Read more: http://swampland.time.com/2013/06/25/secular-humanist-watch/#ixzz2Xm2SUbWy

ananda

(28,864 posts)
25. What a narrowminded, bigoted idiot.
Sun Jun 30, 2013, 03:54 PM
Jun 2013

As the article stated, some organized groups have a clear ID and advertize
themselves giving and caring. Secular humanists are just people who have
a certain philosophy and world view independent of organized religions
and charities.

In fact, I'm a secular humanist who happens to be a theist. But I don't
advertize it or use it as a brand.

DreamGypsy

(2,252 posts)
28. Hey, Mr. Klein, have you ever used an internet search? Humanist Crisis Response...
Sun Jun 30, 2013, 04:27 PM
Jun 2013

at Foundation Beyond Belief



CURRENT FOCUS: OKLAHOMA CITY TORNADO RELIEF EFFORTS
RECIPIENTS: Operation USA and Regional Food Bank of Oklahoma
DONATIONS TO DATE: $44,100 (28 May, 12:00 PM ET)

The Humanist Crisis Response program of Foundation Beyond Belief serves as a focal point for the humanist response to major humanitarian crises. Our purpose is twofold: to bring resources to those in desperate need, and to raise awareness of that need in the humanist community and beyond.

Foundation Beyond Belief is a 501(c)(3) charitable foundation created to focus, encourage and demonstrate humanist generosity and compassion. We select and feature five charitable organizations per quarter, one in each of the following cause areas:

Education
Poverty and Health
Human Rights
The Natural World
Challenge the Gap (charities based in other worldviews)

Members join the Foundation by signing up for a monthly automatic donation in the amount of their choice, then set up personal profiles to indicate how they would like their contribution distributed among the five categories.

Active members can advocate for causes and help us choose the new beneficiaries each quarter. We also host a multi-author blog focused on humanism, philanthropy, and the intersection of the two.


Giving members: 1,431
Volunteers: 2,850
Humanist Giving (Q2) $46,255
Crisis: OK Tornado $45,105
LLS Giving (2013 to date) $3,210
Total since launch: $983,480
 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
36. As my favorite Brit comedian David Mitchell would say of Joe Klein:
Sun Jun 30, 2013, 07:50 PM
Jun 2013
''We all thought you were a turd!''

- Now we know......

K&R

progressoid

(49,991 posts)
48. Love Mitchell
Mon Jul 1, 2013, 01:39 AM
Jul 2013

I'm just watching Season 8 of Peep Show.

And Mitchell and Webb did a great bit about miracles...





Kurovski

(34,655 posts)
43. Joe Klein is perhaps fearful that if he does not engage in enough public hippie-punching...
Mon Jul 1, 2013, 12:43 AM
Jul 2013

the 1% will toss his ass to the curb. The Fellowship is a harsh and busy mistress.

While actively dismantling Democratic 'gubmint in a headlong rush, it still has time to keep tabs on those not fully promoting the proper mythical narrative.

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
45. Klein: "Why would people do anything to help others without the impetus of invisible magical people
Mon Jul 1, 2013, 01:09 AM
Jul 2013

watching them from clouds? Come on, that just makes no sense."

Deep13

(39,154 posts)
53. I deeply believe in charity, mercy, forgiveness, compassion,...
Mon Jul 1, 2013, 03:51 AM
Jul 2013

...human unity, the beauty and dignity of persons, and the duty to care for each other.

I do not believe in anything supernatural.

If you believe in the above virtues, then we are on the same side even if you believe in what I consider to be imaginary friends. We will not agree on that and I consider myself free to argue my own perspective.

I've given a lot of money to what I considered worthy causes over the years, but never to soup kitchens. My problem with them is that they seem to be designed more for making middle class volunteers feel good than they are about ending poverty. After the people are feed, they are still dirt poor.

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