Pelosi: Snowden no hero

[Scurrilous]

<snip>

"House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi is defending her criticism of NSA leaker Edward Snowden and suggests he may not have any more substantive information about the surveillance program.

“We have to know what is it that he has. And I don't know that he has that much substance,” Pelosi said in an interview aired Sunday on NBC’s "Meet the Press." “He may know something about the machinery. I don't know that he knows that much about the content. But I think that anybody thought he was a hero to begin with, now that he's threatening in any event to share information with Russia and China, if he fact he has any information, I think that should disabuse anybody of the notion-- that he is a hero.”

The California Democrat also pushed back about criticism that while speaking to a progressive group, Pelosi was booed when she said Snowden wasn’t a hero.

“And by the way, it was a smattering when I objected to him being called a hero. And yes, he did break the law,” she said. She added, “I think it's pretty good that he's stuck in the Moscow Airport. That's okay with me. He can stay there, that's fine.”

http://www.politico.com/blogs/politico-live/2013/06/pelosi-snowden-in-moscow-airport-he-can-stay-there-167385.html?hp=l1

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. I noticed Gregory asked no hardballs.

All were nerf balls

[DJ13]

8. Gregory has no balls

Nerf or hard.

[Skittles]

22. I WILL KICK BALL-LESS GREGORY ASS

YES INDEED

[sibelian]

2. Well, that's Nancy's opinion of Snowden.

Glad that's that cleared up, then.

[Maximumnegro]

133. Pelosi is a corporate shill Obama apologist

who is part of the 1% status quo and defender of the totalitarian regime that is bent on consuming this country, I'm sure.
Her and Al Franken.

Fact is, I'd take both of their views on Snowden/NSA over anyone over Greenwald or anyone on DU or Dkos.

[brooklynite]

135. Care to point out Elizabeth Warren's ringing endorsement?

How about Alan Grayson?

[sibelian]

140. Very well then.

It seems that you have an opinion of Nancy's opinion.

Was your statement of the same an invitation for me to proffer my opinion of your opinion of Nancy's opinion?

[Turbineguy]

3. Oh good.

Now we can switch gears from "I hate Obama" to "I hate Pelosi". The wingnuts want us to hate both, but I guess they'll take what they can get.

[BlueCaliDem]

4. They hate almost all of the Democratic Party.

Be it Obama or Pelosi, it makes no difference to them. That much is clear.

[loyalsister]

12. Yes that's why seeing liberals coming down on them is so satisfying

I'm sure there are freepers who have especially been enjoying some of the threads here as democrats have been in this divisive mode calling each other names and assigning motives.

[Mojorabbit]

45. Oh please! nt

[nineteen50]

66. Could it be the issue and position and not the person?

[flamingdem]

7. We will know them by their name calling

Awaiting the first shot across the bow regarding Nancy and Snowden.

[Coccydynia]

72. Pelosi took impeachment off the table in 2006.

I despised her long before you were a Good German in condemning Snowden.

The Cons learned one thing from Watergate. Don't look for evidence to launch a smear campaign in a shrinks office well after the whistle blower acts. Launch the smear campaign immediately with innuendo and half-truths to easily enlist the witless sheeple in the efforts.

Well played. Well played.

[Civilization2]

90. Nice ;) Agreed, it is sad to see all the fascists come out,. what ever their 'party'.

This is how fascism, wins when people see 'party' before humanity, when they look to score points in a debate, instead of actually debating the rise of the Corporate-Military Surveillance State.

Pelosi has shown time and again that corporate power is more important to her than the people, same with Obama. We have to judge people on their ACTIONS as well as the words they say to get to power to take these actions.

[G_j]

120. that's when she lost me completely

In her enablement of Resident Bush...

[BlueCaliDem]

5. Demcrat Nancy Pelosi is correct. K&R eom

[Downwinder]

6. When you can't dispute his message, attack.

[darkangel218]

32. +1

[Cha]

44. Snowden is no hero. End of Story.

[Downwinder]

49. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

This story is still in the First Act.

[Cha]

57. I think Nancy Pelosi is dead on. She's sees him for what he is. nm

[Downwinder]

63. Act one, Scene two.

Scene 1 Hong Kong
Scene 2 Moscow
Scene 3 ???

[Arctic Dave]

9. Pelo... who?

Oh, the one that took bringing mass murdering war criminals to trial "off the table"? That one?

Yeah. Her opinion means jackshit.

[Gregorian]

20. My response, as well.

She essentially covered up the Bush crimes when she refused to entertain the thought of opening a hearing.

[HardTimes99]

24. +Infinity! You have nailed it! - nt

[DCBob]

52. I suspect I dispised the Bush/Cheney evil empire more that you but..

I also agree with Nancy that it was not really worth it to go after them personally. It would have been an extremely ugly, nasty, vicious, partisan battle and would have taken away time and focus from much more important matters. It might have been the "right" thing to do but not the wise thing to do.

[Arctic Dave]

58. I disagree.

She could have went after them and disbanded what they started and the Snowden would just be another computer IT guy hiding out in the rack room.

Plus the repug party would have been removed to the dustbin of history.

[DCBob]

60. thats your opinion..

those more closely involved thought otherwise.

[jaysunb]

68. +1 n/t

[BlueCaliDem]

108. +2

People need to get over that vengeance thingy they've been obsessed with. Speaker Pelosi did what she believed was the correct thing to do -focus on pushing this country forward rather than miring her in legal battles that would have only divided the country more.

She's been in Congress for a long time. She knows better than anyone whether or not something is worth pursuing, but the pitchfork crowd won't have none of it! Good thing they're in the minority.

[Skittles]

109. you cannot POSSIBLY be that naive

these guys started wars BASED ON KNOWN LIES and NO ONE was held accountable but OMG - they're going after this half-ass "hacker" with a VENGEANCE? And you think that is cool???

[DCBob]

113. you cannot POSSIBLY be that clueless

The are good reasons Congress doesn't normally go after ex-Presidents/VPs.. and your "hero" Snowden clearly broke the law. Its not that complicated.

[Art_from_Ark]

118. Talk about clueless

The bush cabal also clearly broke the law by starting a phony war based on lies (among other things). And the Democrats of 1974 surely would have gone after ex-president Nixon for his crimes if Ford hadn't immediately pardoned him.

[Skittles]

136. I said ANYONE - NOT specifically Dubya

*ANYONE*

and Snowden is NOT MY HERO - I challenge you to find ANY post of mine where I slobber over Snowden

[nineteen50]

70. She wanted to save that technique

in case the Obama Administration wanted to use it. Both parties are Representatives of the 1% and corporate power-elite.

[Skittles]

110. CORRECT

now reply to me for post 1000!!!

[nineteen50]

117. Thanks Skittles I had no idea I had posted so much.

[zeemike]

67. But But....she did it so we could move forward.

And now the most common phrase among third way democrats is "moving forward"....and they took single payer off the table so we could move forward too.

[Apophis]

94. You win the thread.

[DevonRex]

10. Good for her. I agree. K&R. nt

[99Forever]

11. Would that be...

... Nancy “I have said it before and I will say it again: Impeachment is off the table,” Pelosi?

Why should I care what that War Criminal enabler says?

[Hekate]

48. Yeah, we should have spent the entire Obama presidency embroiled in that

No doubt about it, that should have been the sole priority, because no other political reality was involved.


Yeah, I still hate Bush/Cheney and the Neocons. But I will not second-guess Nancy "She can count votes" Pelosi on this one.

[99Forever]

106. WTF? Right.

Just let Torturing War Criminals and mass murdering scum, not only walk free, but live the good life, just because it might "inconvenience" the legislative process, that BTW, hasn't done jackshit about much of anything, anyway.

Got any other lameass excuses for zero justice you wanna spew?

[Hekate]

107. Just gotta say how much I love the New DU

[Bobbie Jo]

114. .

AKA....Infowars 2.0

[99Forever]

116. Got a problem with speaking truth to power, do you?

Tough.

It's just starting. You're in for unhappy ride.

[Hekate]

124. Just a problem with

*

[99Forever]

141. What is that supposed to mean?

If you've got something to say, grow a spine and say it.

[LittleBlue]

13. Now I'm convinced he is a hero

Quiet, Nancy. Congress is so unpopular you'll convince people he is a hero merely by speaking against him.

[forestpath]

14. Yet Nancy "impeachment is off the table" Pelosi protected Bush.

[darkangel218]

31. exactlty.

disgusting, isn't it.

[Narkos]

15. Go Nancy!

[DirkGently]

16. She heard about those pole-dancing boxes in his garage.

Also you can't trust a man in glasses. Probably some kind if nerd-o.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

17. Maybe not, but certainly a Patriot

Edward Snowden is a modern day Paul Revere with a thumb drive full of the news that Tyranny is coming!

[Galraedia]

26. More like:

[Jamaal510]

96. +1

[Tarheel_Dem]

129. Awesome graphic!

[flamingdem]

34. Paul Revere trotting off to Moscow?

Okay I stole that fair 'n square

[Cha]

47. Leaker is a HOOHAHYPOCRITE..

h/t baldguy http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023125519#post103

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

51. Yeah, I guess all the top secret docs he released, as well as all the other former NSA staff

who testified to the same, were about something else... and that the rest of the frigging whole world (not to mention the hill & the pr puppies, the M$M, reacting to it, are just reading the whole story all wrong, right?

sure... you folk go with that, the rest of us part ways with you on that 'no evidence', 'old news', 'racist', 'paulbot', BULLSHIT, and will stay in the reality based world of facts, thank you very much.

[Bobbie Jo]

119. Alex Jones called....

He wants his teabagging meme back.



Extra points for the creative use of "patriot" and "tyranny."

[Galraedia]

18. Grand. Give Snowden's cult following another Democrat to bash.

If it's not anti-Obama drama, it'll be anti-Pelosi.

[Scurrilous]

46. John Kerry. BAD!!1! Skulls. Bones. Drones. *Groans*

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023086760

[HiPointDem]

19. pot kettle

[HardTimes99]

21. What a tool! Like Pelosi would have the faintest idea what heroism is - nt

[Gregorian]

23. He broke the law to reveal how the NSA is breaking the law. Shame on him.

I'd say he is noble at the very least.

[Galraedia]

30. Snowden hasn't proven anything illegal.

That doesn't make it wrong or right, just not illegal.

[Gregorian]

37. "Potentially illegal". It's a minor technicality at this point.

[Downwinder]

39. Nothing is illegal when you make the law.

[JDPriestly]

75. The STASI surveillance was legal in East Germany.

I feel certain that a lot of people who support this surveillance collection of metadata will change their minds before all that long. They just don't understand what this means for our society.

[Hydra]

139. Yes he has

The NSA and the FISA court violated the 4th Amendment. You can't get more Illegal than going outside the Constitution.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

25. Way to go Pelosi!

[villager]

27. Maybe, Nancy, if the Dems had managed to take 4th Amendment violations "off the table?"

[darkangel218]

28. I blocked Pelosi off my mail feed.

She is , unfortunately, just another corporate shill.

[marions ghost]

41. Yeah Goodbye Pelosi & I add "unfortunately" too

I have always respected her--but I'm going with the Dems who really get it and side with the people in this.

[darkangel218]

54. Grayson is one who will never let us down.

x

[marions ghost]

101. Grayson rocks

[RandiFan1290]

29. Just don't think about messin with Nancy's boy!

[Cha]

55. Yes, I'm sure that will snare all the lightweights..

Nancy Pelosi Talks Feminist Heroes, Chocolate, And Sequestration

Nancy Pelosi is an inspiration to us all — a strong woman who imparts change on a daily basis, standing up for the rights of women (and people) everywhere with apparent ease. And with the recent passing of the Violence Against Women Act (and the subsequent sequestration that crippled the funding by $20 million), her unique position is more in the spotlight than ever. Feministing's Chloe Angyal sat down with the House Minority Leader to ask a few pointed questions, from feminist heroes to cringe-worthy news stories to, most importantly, how the recent financial upset will affect millions of American women.

http://www.refinery29.com/2013/03/44150/nancy-pelosi-feminist-interview-vawa

[RandiFan1290]

64. No need to snare anyone with a flowery bullshit story

People paying attention know she is full of it. Just another entrenched 1% making America suck and protecting her fortune.

[Scurrilous]

76. Election season can't come soon enough.

[Cha]

81. Opposed to your flowery bullshit? nm

[vdogg]

33. Wow

It sure is getting mighty packed under that bus. Now Pelosi is bad because she doesn't subscribe to the cult of Snowden. Predictable...

[whatchamacallit]

35. Dick Cheney agrees with both of you

Congrats!

[vdogg]

38. And Vladamir Putin

Agrees with you. As you can see, such a simplistic argument is easily turned around.

[whatchamacallit]

40. Oh right, a Russian

the lowest of the low...

[vdogg]

42. Not all Russians obviously.

But this particular Russian, yeah, I'd put him pretty far down there. My point, which I'm sure you already know, is that someone disagreeable agreeing with a particular point of view does not make that point of view invalid.

[whatchamacallit]

43. Agreed. Tell it to the OP

for trying to validate her pov with Pelosi.

[Number23]

100. Game. Set. And match

[treestar]

36. Yep, difference between Obama and Bush, too.

“We all know that we have to have a balance between security to protect the American people and liberty. We take an oath to protect and defend the constitution and the American people,” she said. “And there -- so I have -- in all of the legislation that I've been involved in put serious obstacles to having surveillance that comes anywhere near to violating the rights of the American people including the Privacy and Civil Liberties Board which I think will now be further strengthened.”

The current programs, she said, shouldn’t be compared to surveillance under former President George W. Bush.

(PHOTOS: Pols react to Snowden on the run)

“President Bush exercised unfettered, unlimited presidential discretion for surveillance in-- for surveillance," she said. "Under President Obama in '08 before he even became president we passed the FISA amendments which put up obstacles to the federal government doing surveillance which put oversight whether it's-- inspectors general, whether it's the Congress of the United States, whether it's a privacy or-- Privacy and Civil Liberties Board."

[SamKnause]

50. Pelosi

Edward Snowden has more integrity in his little toe than you have in your entire body Mrs. Pelosi.

How is your portfolio looking Mrs. Pelosi ?

Insider trading has been good for you and your cohorts in DC.

[DCBob]

53. Good for Nancy. I know many in her district wont like those words but..

she speaks the truth.

[darkangel218]

56. lol

maybe for the corporate assholes. Sure not for us.

[DCBob]

59. olo

[BenzoDia]

61. I take the fact that she's not running away from the NSA as a sign that they're not too far out of

line. Lest it come out and bite her in the ass.

[Major Hogwash]

62. Boo-yah!!

I love the way she talks, direct, succinct, and to the point.

[DCBob]

65. Loved this line .. "its pretty good that he's stuck in the Moscow Airport."

[Scurrilous]

69. Edward Snowden: "Hero or Traitor"?

<snip>

"I was amused this evening to catch a glimpse of a CNN show asking this question, as if either characterization is correct. In my judgment, based on what I know from the media thus far, Snowden is neither a hero nor a traitor, but he is most certainly a criminal who deserves serious punishment.

I say this as someone who believes strongly in government transparency, but even more strongly in the orderly rule of law. Snowden knowingly accepted a position of trust in his relation to the government. He did not have to accept his job, but he did. A clear condition of that job was his voluntary agreement not to disclose any classified information - that is, information the disclosure of which could reasonably endanger the security of the nation.

The government cannot always attach conditions to employment. For example, it cannot constitutionally require its employees to agree never to criticize the president or never to get an abortion or never to invoke their rights under the Fourth Amendment. But it is well-settled that the government can require its employees to agree to some conditions, and one of them is not to disclose classified information.

As the Supreme Court held in Snepp v. United States in 1980, not only can government employees constitutionally be required to agree not to disclose classified information, but they can even be required to agree, as a condition of employment, not to publish "any information or material relating to . . . intelligence activities" even after they leave the government service without "specific prior approval." As the Court emphasized, an employee's disclosure of "material relating to intelligence activities can be detrimental to vital national interests."

But what if the employee decides, in his own wisdom, that some classified information doesn't need to be classified or that it would be good for the public to know the classified information? Should the employee be allowed to make that judgment? Merely to state the question is to answer it. There is no reason on earth why an individual government employee should have the authority, on his own say so, to override the judgment of the elected representatives of the American people and to decide for the nation that classified information should be disclosed to friends and enemies alike. Such an act is a complete usurpation of the rule of law."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/geoffrey-r-stone/edward-snowden-hero-or-tr_b_3418939.html

[jaysunb]

73. Excellent ! nt

[treestar]

83. A usurpation of the rule of law, exactly

He has other avenues and deliberately did not choose them.

[Tarheel_Dem]

131. +1

[Iliyah]

71. She is part of the progressive, left establishment

I truly admire her and totally agree with her on this issue. Seems like majority of the threads I post on disappears but I had to response in the positive.

Tons of repeated threads on the same damn subject over and over and over non stop bullshit - with the same effing talking point like its being orchestrated. Trashing, bashing, name calling because many here don't fall into the trap of hero worshiping Snowden, Greenwald and Assange.

[Le Taz Hot]

74. Neither are you, Ms. Pelosi,

neither are you. And you've been in a position to be a hero for years now. All you've done is cozy up to the corporations and somewhere along the line lose your spine. Thank you and please move over and give someone new a chance to SERVE THE PEOPLE as opposed to serving the corporations who finance you.

[Jessy169]

78. Seems to me that Pelosi is correct

Obama too. I'm sticking with the judgement and character of two political leaders that have been right about the big things that really matter, time and time again. I can appreciate the youthful idealism of those who support Snowden and consider him "a hero". But in the real world -- in today's very complicated and dangerous world -- hard choices need to be made. Idealism has its place, but I think that idealism is out of place when it comes to Snowden.

[Scurrilous]

82. ...

[Jamaal510]

97. +1

[Tarheel_Dem]

137. It's a "Libertarian" idealism. They hate every facet of the federal government, and what's....

happening here is an invasion of libertarianism on feeble minded progressives. What they don't seem to realize is that they're helping the Republican (Ron & Rand Paul) argument that the Fed needs to be shrunk to a size where it can be drowned in a bathtub. This will come back to bite us all. It's the "state's rights" movement, and if progressives can't see the regressive pattern of activity that's happening in the states right now, then they are deaf, dumb & blind.

This doesn't help Progressives:

[fascisthunter]

79. lol... coming from Pelosi

that's funny as shit on a popsicle.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

80. I guess that Snowden bashing isn't "off the table" for Pelosi.

[Waiting For Everyman]

84. Maybe if Nancy had bothered to do her job and address the subject

whistleblowers wouldn't have to be blowing whistles right now.

[TheKentuckian]

85. What has good ol "off the table" got to say on this?

Oh yeah, nothing of import.

[Maedhros]

87. Pelosi is an apparatchik.

She does as she is instructed.

[Iliyah]

91. Nah

one thing about the Democratic Party, we have independent choices in making our own decisions and opinions.

One thing about the party - its diversity and That is called democracy.

I'm one who is very upset that the Cheney administration, including, but not limited to, all Bushies, that were not brought up for criminal investigation. And still am.

[Marblehead]

86. we better agree with

her or else they will open up your file

[baldguy]

88. It's great seeing the Snowden fan club showing up.

For a lying hypocrite RW Paulbot, they throw under the bus:
A) The Democratic President of the United States
B) The Democratic House Minority Leader,
C) The Democratic members House & Senate Intelligence Committees and
D) every member of DU who has looked at this pissant little douchebag and found him untrustworthy.

Can we finally stop with the pretense & realize that those standing up for Snowden - against nearly every Democrat in the country, it seems - aren't Democrats?

[Bodhi BloodWave]

93. isn't it interesting that a fair number of the people who argue

on that the 'Obama loyalists' should focus on the main issue and not 'slander/character assassinate' Snowden/Greenwald, will more then happy dredge up close to anything negative regarding those who disagree with their opinion to 'prove' how the critic's words are not of any worth.

[Jamaal510]

99. Tunnel-vision.

I think tunnel-vision is a problem among that crowd. Doing all that you mentioned even before more facts have come in about both the program, and about Snowden's background. Not only that, but why all this outrage NOW over a program that has been around for years? And why are people directing their frustration solely at the President? He has no jurisdiction over changing the laws or proposing new ones; that is Congress's job. If people want an end to the tracking laws, they ought to start by supporting Congressional candidates who feel likewise.

[Number23]

102. Tunnel vision is part of it. But I really do think Prosense summed it perfectly

It's hate. Plain and simple. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023052983

[Maedhros]

104. Party identity is of little importance

as long as someone is fighting for the right things - such as Constitutional protections.

[DCBob]

112. Its shocking at times how far they have gone.. it really makes you wonder.

Seems they are more Socialists than Democrats and don't really represent the party anymore. However, they are useful to help remind us what an ideal government might look like... even though its not realistic.

[WinkyDink]

122. So! How about that TPP, huh?!

[baldguy]

123. And that has to do with Snowden, the NSA and Pelosi how?

Or is it just another excuse to throw the President and the Democratic Party under the bus?

As if Snowden's Paulite friends would be better for America.

[SolutionisSolidarity]

132. Shorter baldguy: "Fuck those left-wingers, who needs them?"

Here's a preview for 2014: "Fuck those left-wingers, if they hadn't stayed home we would've kept the Senate!".

[baldguy]

138. Last time I checked nobody BUT NOBODY was so stupid as to describe Ron Paul as a left-winger.

And left-wingers generally didn't promote lies & hang their entire existence on those lies - because advocating "counter-factual" positions harms people in real, concrete ways.

Real left-wingers, real progressives & real Democrats work to help people. I always thought that hurting people is what those other people wanted!! Which is the reason real left-wingers, real progressives & real Democrats oppose them.

But I guess you - like Ron Paul & Ed Snowden - support spreading lies that hurt people, huh? That's fine really. BUT DON'T PRETEND THAT YOU'RE HELPING LEFT-WINGERS & DEMOCRATS GET ELECTED!

[Purveyor]

89. And Rep. Pelosi, you are no 'House Leader', in the manner of a "leader"...either. eom

[raindaddy]

92. Pelosi also doesn't consider chained CPI a Social Security cut.

Personally my litmus test when it comes to Democrats with courage is whether they stand up to Obama's Cat food Commission on Social Security cuts. Pelosi fails the test.

Pelosi's opinion on Snowdon means squat.

Though Chained CPI would reduce lifetime benefits relative to the current cost of living adjustment formula, Pelosi said she does not consider it a benefit cut. “No, I don’t,” consider it a benefit cut, she said. “I consider it a strengthening of Social Security.”

[Autumn]

95. I thought Nancy would be a hero too when she became Madam Speaker.

I was wrong.

[Number23]

98. K&R for one of my favorite DUers

So brave to post an OP with this crowd, Secret Squirrelous!

[Scurrilous]

125. ...

[Ash_F]

103. 2014 is supposed to be a cakewalk. We are ruining a once in a generation opportunity

Kowtowing to the Right has cost Dems over and over again. When are they going to learn?

[Harmony Blue]

105. Someone needs to make a run for Pelosis seat

she owns the Bush war crimes as far as I am concerned.

[Bobbie Jo]

115. Apparently

The troll above agrees with you.

Go figure.

[Cali_Democrat]

134. The GOP thanks you for your support

[WinkyDink]

121. Snowden: Pelosi no hero.

[BlueStater]

126. It takes a lot less of that pesky courage to challenge Snowden than Bush, eh Nancy?

I can't believe the support she's actually getting here. Fuck her.

[Tarheel_Dem]

127. I agree with Nancy. nt

[Larkspur]

128. Obama and Pelosi should apply the same punishment to Snowden that they gave Bush, US torturers, ...

and the "To Big to Fail" Banksters -- a get out of free jail card and for the banksters, to keep racking up the millions and billions using the same schemes that led to the Great Recession in the first place.

It was Obama who said that Bush's and Wall Street's crimes and wrong doings were in the past and we should leave them alone. He needs to eat his "Looking forward, not backward" words.

[AndyA]

130. Um...Nancy...George W. Bush broke the law when he lied to Congress

and the American people about WMDs in Iraq.

His administration broke the law by outing a covert CIA agent during a time of war.

Wall Street executives broke the law which crashed the worldwide economy.

Yet you were willing to look the other way at the time, but not now. That makes you a hypocrite. I don't think that Snowden is necessarily a hero, but I do think you should be consistent about breaking the law.