General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsShould Obama give Morsi the Mubarak treatment?
Serious question.
We all remember the Arab Spring. Many had reservations at the speed at which events evolved and warned that groups such as the Muslim Brotherhood would coopt the chaos to advance their own anti-democratic agendas. Though time has proven these voices correct that does NOT diminish the spirit of freedom that originally motivated the protests that drove Mubarak from power.
Obviously that fire for freedom is undiminished in the hearts of the Egyptian people. President Obama, to his tremendous credit, was on the right side of history in his calls for Mubarak to step aside in the name of Democracy. I believe History is presenting President Obama another opportunity to repeat with equal foresight his call for democratic reform.
Should he?
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)Nothing changes the fact that Morsi was democratically elected.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)One should not use Democracy as a means to kill Democracy.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)The west is judging by its own standards and should keep their noses out.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)until you go, "Well, that's the process. I guess we'll just have to learn to live with it."?
Human rights, I've always believed, are universal.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)backscatter712
(26,355 posts)...they hey, call me a fan of righteous barbarism!
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)bemildred
(90,061 posts)Sometimes they are even grateful.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)bemildred
(90,061 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Conversely, the pro-democracy demonstrators would interpret any aid that reached the "government" as the US propping-up yet another corrupt regime.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)We want to deal with the people who want to get along, we want to help them.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)These are the people I think President Obama can offer moral support to buttress the humanitarian support you suggested.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)The Muslim Brotherhood does not know how to run a country.
There are lots of young men who can see what the first world has and are enraged that they cannot have it. Yet no one can figure out how to raise living standards.
They had a monarchy - it failed. Socialism failed. Now religious rule is failing.
The opposition are nihilists. They don't know what they want just that the status quo sucks.
Egypt is going to burn. Eventually the army will install a Islamy strongman like Mubarek. It is the only way to have order.
This calls for real diplomacy to look after the US interests but we are not capable of that at the moment.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)The protesters beg to differ, it seems.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)The first democratically elected leader of Egypt. Ever.
The protestors may be able to force him and the Brotherhood from power. Then what?
Like another poster upthread, I'm guessing a military coup is coming. Otherwise, Egypt falls apart.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Morsi is constructing the same sort of system as those who were democratically elected in the US but chose to impose Jim Crowe (sp?) laws.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)What changed?
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Mubarak was our guy. A dictator we backed for decades. Morsi was elected in a nominally democratic process. If the Egyptian people desire to nullify that election on the streets, that is their business. We have no responsibility for Morsi being in power and this no responsibility to take a side in this event. But you know that.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Civil process must never be used as an excuse for blind obedience to manifest injustice. I doubt you view the MB as the exemplars of justice.
former9thward
(32,066 posts)Obama did not overthrow Mubarak and nothing he says will decide Morsi's fate. Obama made his comments on Mubarak very late in the game after it was all but over.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Please cite where I even came close to suggesting Obama "overthrew" Mubarak or likened it to a criticism or ever diminished the virtues of the Egyptian people.
former9thward
(32,066 posts)The title of your OP certainly implies that Obama has control. Quit dancing around.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)The body of the OP speaks to a higher idealism and a hope for genuine reform rather than the sad façade of democracy co-opted by the MB. I believe the Egyptian people want real freedom and I think President Obama played an important and necessary part in giving his moral support to their voices. I would like to see him do so again.
That being said, I'm at a loss to explain how anything I wrote can be construed as uncomplimentary to the President or the Egyptian people.
former9thward
(32,066 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)I'm stunned that my compliment of the President is suddenly grounds for a complaint against me.
Nor do I saddle him with the aftermath. The MB pushed their way into power. Obama did not push them.
A consistent, steady, unwavering voice for democracy and universal human rights has to sounded. Why not President Obama? Isn't that what the just-concluded trip to South Africa was partly about or were those just photo-ops by just another strutting politician?
former9thward
(32,066 posts)The Chinese are in Africa grabbing resources all over. Obama wants to make sure the U.S. gets a piece.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Duckwraps
(206 posts)and let events take there course.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Duckwraps
(206 posts)what position can we take?
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Democracy.
Peaceful redress of grievances.
Human rights.
Equality under the law.
Say it over and over again until everyone believes it -- including us.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)I would have the President visibly speak to the ideals of the pro-democracy protesters. He needn't name any faction or persona. We need not send any military hardware or offer threats of withholding aid or supplying such-and-such. Just speak to what we all hope for: peace, democracy, equality; plainly and without hesitation.
I think that alone will carry the tide.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Intervention of any sort could be seen as a greenlight to the military to use that hardware to re-assert control of the government.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)falsely accuse me of endorsing. It must be admitted that wild accusations can occur.
Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)
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Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Is that the sole criteria for governmental legitimacy?